hi all interstingly enough, the debate here which seems to between the need to provide Computer Science or ICT raises many of the issues that have affected UNIX in the past and why it lost out to Windows. It also highlights why infact Open Source / Linux - based solutions will not be adopted by the majority of schools. The R&D work at Becta on Open Source has probably come accross less than 500 schools (out of 27,000) in the UK using Linux (and 150 of those are in Powys). Much of the development seems to be secondary and independant schools, with only the LEA mentioned above deploying it as a 'black-box' solution into primaries. The lack of IT support for school technicians (where they exist) and the pressure of other commitments, make 'hands-on' system development impossible in the majority of schools, something completely different to the HE sector. It is also an issue at FE level (as UKERNA are finding out rolling out JANET to the colleges). The success of Equiinet's Netpilot (a black-box Linux server, running on PowerPC chip, using lots of Open Source favourites and having only a web-based interface) is proof that Linux has a place, but only in a sanitised format. The drawback of the Netpilot (and Navaho's proprietary solution) is that the benefits of the Open Source model (peer group development and support, lower TCO, choice, flexibility etc) are lost, you are still tied into a single supplier and platform. Drawing this together the issue is then how to bring the benefits of Open Source to a community (schools), without the techie bits? It's had me thinking for months and i'm still working on it, however the Open Source for Education Toolkit (osetk) is a start, need to get something together for it though. regards Malc (oh, just to confirm that i have distanced myself from the bare metal slightly, i prefer emacs) ------------------------------- Dr Malcolm Herbert Head of Technology R&D, Becta 02476 847126 Mob: 07801 612438 -------------------------------
-----Original Message----- From: Roger Whittaker [mailto:roger@suse-linux.co.uk] Sent: 18 September 2000 15:19 To: davef@gbdirect.co.uk Cc: Gary Stainburn; WYLUG; Schools List Subject: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Re: [Wylug-discuss] Re: [Wylug-advocacy] Letter to local schools.
The fact that this has turned up also on the SuSE Linux schools list and the fact that such a list exists (and has about 150 members) shows that there is a bit more to it than this.
Of course there are usability and learning-curve issues. And yes, there is a certain style of advocacy which is really the opposite of advocacy... And I can't use `vee-eye' either. But I think gnome and kde (version 2 on it's way) are both pretty usable and efficient.
As to the issues involved in making Linux more usable in the specific conditions of schools, both as a server and a desktop OS, there are constructive discussions going on in various quarters, particularly Malcolm Herbert's inititatives (http://www.ose.org.uk).
And the speed at which Linux is getting more usable is pretty amazing (how long ago was it that I was totally baffled trying to get my first slackware installed and X running...? - it's so much easier now.)
(Of course the points about teachers' pay, workload and status are more than valid. I was one of them, though in most ways one of the more fortunate ones.)
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 davef@gbdirect.co.uk wrote:
On Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 11:32:26AM +0100, Gary Stainburn wrote: <simon says snip>
An excellent letter, with I believe just the tone required. I did notice that you used the longer www.wylug.lug.org.uk instead of the (one less lug) www.wylug.org.uk. I believe that the shorter name gives a better image.
I heartilly agree ... except I'd go further and get rid of the three Ws too.
My 3 'peneth on the offering (speaking as someone with recent secondary teaching experience):
Basically, linux in its raw state is no use to anyone in schools except for after-school tinkering by comp sci clubs or geeky physics/maths teachers, etc ... and there are not many of the latter with much time for play.
In short, any offering must be completely and simply packaged (Mac-like) and fully supported.
Anything less will simply be a waste of time for both wylug members and any targetted schools/teachers.
Dave
P.S. Sorry for the stridency, but with the current state of UK teaching (i.e. shite pay, shite status, no time and the blame for all social ills) the usual bollocks which over-skilled Unix-gurus come out with in response to serious useability issues just won't wash
Please, if you feel compelled to remind me about the amazing efficiency and useability of "vee-eye" and the bash ... don't bother
-- Roger Whittaker SuSE Linux Ltd The Kinetic Centre Theobald Street Borehamwood Herts WD6 4PJ ---------------------- 020 8387 1482 ---------------------- roger@suse-linux.co.uk ----------------------