Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-buildservice (252 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Help needed for Packaging
  • From: Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:07:38 +0200
  • Message-id: <4510783A.4050200@xxxxxxxxx>
Hash: SHA1

Stefan Dirsch wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 19, 2006 at 09:05:01AM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
>> Dominique Leuenberger wrote:
>>> I'm quiet new to RPM packaging and the BuildService.
>>> Nevertheless, I offered myself to maintain some games inside the
>>> BuildService (my goal will be UFO:AI, but for 'training' I accepted to
>>> maintain Ri-Li and SuperTuxKart.
>> Is it really necessary that people build stuff we already have at
>> packman or in my repository, _without any notice_ ?
>> Please check
> Thanks for the hint. I didn't know about your repository yet. Any

Um.. you gotta be kidding ;)

> plans to transfer it to the openSUSE buildservice or has this already
> been discussed on some mailing list?

Those packages ? All my packages ?

No, I have no plans to transfer whatsoever to the BuildService at the

I've already posted my """gripes""" (well, not really gripes, *I know
it's WIP* ;)) on the list.

To summarize:
- - it's more work for me to use the BS (even with osc, although it is
orders of magnitudes better than the web interface IMO) than using my
own build scripts (they work more or less like y2pmbuild), and
time/effort is a very critical resource for me as I maintain those
700-800 active projects exclusively during my spare time
- - IMO the Build Service as it is now is not very user-friendly. No
overall list of all packages/projects, no search function. I know it's
in the works, and I really don't mean to criticize the great work of
Adrian, Peter, Michael, and all the others involved, but until then, I
think it is _much_ more convenient for people to use my site or packman,
with a nice web interface ([1]) and features like an RSS feed, a single
repository, search, etc...
- - I currently don't maintain KMPs or other packages that are highly
dependent on others, so I wouldn't benefit much from the automatically
triggered rebuilds
- - I don't build nor plan to build for Factory, no time for that
(although that's possibly the only advantage I would gain from using the
BS, but Factory is there to test, not to use it as a productive system,
so people who use Factory don't need my packages - at least, so I assume)

[1] especially the new one that will go live soon:

Don't take me wrong, I really don't mean to sound rude or something :)
The BS is a great project and it will definitely develop into something
that wipes away my current "gripes" (please take that word with a grain
of salt).
But in the current state, I don't see any benefit for me to use the BS
instead of my own build tools. If it means more work, needs more time,
less convenience both for me and the people who use my packages, I don't
have any reason to switch now.

The only thing I don't appreciate is that a lot of packages the packman
team or I maintain (often since quite some time) show up in the BS,
maintained by other people, without even getting a notice.
Thank you, how nice.

That's not how we community packagers do it. We talk to each other, try
to avoid duplicate work, mostly try to consolidate our work in the
packman infrastructure in order to provide the best possible experience
for SUSE users out there. Especially as the BS likes to generate high
release numbers, _which voids our work_ (and I would really like to
insist on this point).

Now when the BS will provide what I think are both my needs and those of
the people who use my packages, I would probably switch, let other
people do the packaging, and possibly retire from that activity or
concentrate on a few packages (700-800 specs are definitely too much for
a single person ;)).
But until then, packman provides the best packager infrastructure and
end-user experience, at least IMO.

Note, and I'll end my way-too-long-email-as-always with this, that I was
the first (and possibly only) one to say that a major problem with the
openSUSE community (as a whole) is that we lack community packagers. Not
enough people, too many single points of failure, and way too much work
for the people who currently take care of it.
So I'm pretty unemotional about that, if people take care of some or
most of the packages I build today, great, means more free time for me.
It's just that I care about the people who use my packages and the
service I can provide to them, and about SUSE Linux as it is the
distribution I've been using and advocating since 5.0 :)

Do I sound sad and somewhat disappointed ? you bet.

- --
-o) Pascal Bleser
/\\ <pascal.bleser@xxxxxxxxx> <guru@xxxxxxxxxxx>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
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