Hi,

>>> On 2/12/2008 at 10:32, Klaus Kaempf  wrote:
> * Stanislav Visnovsky  [Feb 12. 2008 09:27]:
>> Hi!
>> 
>> I'm working on the functionality to keep the downloaded packages on disk, 
> not 
>> removing them.
>> 
>> This needs to be configurable, of course. I'd like to get your views on how 
>> much configurability we need.
>> 
>> I see at least the following options:
>> 1) global enable/disable
> This is certainly needed.
> 
>> 2) per-repository enable/disable
>> 3) per-access protocol enable/disable (CD, HTTP, FTP, NFS, ...)
> 
> I can't remember anyone asking for 2) or 3).

Well, 3 makes quiet some sense to me: I 'enable' globally to store the downloaded packages, but copying everything which I have on my CD/DVD/NFS repository also to all the local disc does not make much sense.

Think about a school: we offer a NFS Server with some interesting repos for our dormitor. Students are kindly asked to use that one to update their Systems. But then, they also want to use some additional repos, which we do not have on our NFS system. I'm not sure they want to keep all the things from our NFS server, but they might very well keep the downloads from other repos (for easy / fast sharing together).

Dominique

PS: The example is fictional ;) but who knows...

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Hi, On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Michael Matz wrote:

I think (3) makes no sense.

Perhaps I should expand on this. It makes no sense because having or not having to "download" packages is an intrinsic property of the protocol. You can't choose not to download something when the protocol is http. And you shall not choose to download and store locally when the protocol is nfs, dir or cd/dvd. Hence the protocol itself already completely determines if something is downloaded at all or not, i.e. if it's a remote protocol or a local one. So the question is only if the downloaded files are deleted afterwards or not. For the local protocols this question makes no sense, for the remote protocols there's no difference, all of them are remote. Ciao, Michael. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Klaus Kaempf wrote:

* Michael Matz [Feb 12. 2008 09:51]:

...

I hope that neither CD nor NFS protocol are really downloaded. Both are local protocols.

Well, people have requested just this in the past. It should be configurable.

Unless this can be explained in more words than "it was requested" I stand by my assessment of that being nonsensical. Why should libzypp copy the file from the NFS or DVD mountpoint to local harddisc and install that just copied rpm, instead of just installing the original file in the first place? (And in the unlikely case that someone could make up a sensible usecase for this, then NFS would simply be in the "remote" class of protocols, and hence act like them insofar the topic of this thread is concerned). Ciao, Michael. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

On Feb 12, 2008 9:35 AM, Klaus Kaempf wrote:

* Michael Matz [Feb 12. 2008 10:28]:

...

Hi,

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Klaus Kaempf wrote:

...

* Michael Matz [Feb 12. 2008 09:51]:

...

I hope that neither CD nor NFS protocol are really downloaded. Both are local protocols.

Well, people have requested just this in the past. It should be configurable.

Unless this can be explained in more words than "it was requested" I stand by my assessment of that being nonsensical.

The use case is "have all relevant packages in one directory so they can be copied to an usb-stick or cdrom and distributed".

One doesn't always have the right CD at hand (or is connected to the right network with NFS access) when trying to install a specific set of packages (installed before to a 'reference' system) on another computer.

Yeah, I see this asked quite a lot on IRC. It would be nice if there was a "download only" option (i.e. download at work, take disk home, install there). Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

* Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett [Feb 12. 2008 10:51]:

Again, that is _download_

if you can copy from your hard disk you can also copy from your cd, this usecase is to keep remote packages.

Not quite. The usecase is "repeatable transaction", having a set of packages in one place - independant of their origin. Klaus --- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

Dňa Tuesday 12 February 2008 10:51:41 Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett ste napísal:

...

Francis Giannaros wrote:

...

Yeah, I see this asked quite a lot on IRC. It would be nice if there was a "download only" option (i.e. download at work, take disk home, install there).

Kind thoughts,

Again, that is _download_

if you can copy from your hard disk you can also copy from your cd, this usecase is to keep remote packages.

If you do not have CDs around (as is happening to me), those packages are also remote ;-)

But you can't install new packages from those kept rpms, because they are the ones you have installed anyway, and don't contain any other packages from the media. Installing more things simply is no usecase for the don't-delete-after-download feature. Ciao, Michael.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 09:40:09AM +0000, Francis Giannaros wrote:

On Feb 12, 2008 9:35 AM, Klaus Kaempf wrote:

...

* Michael Matz [Feb 12. 2008 10:28]:

...

Hi,

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Klaus Kaempf wrote:

...

* Michael Matz [Feb 12. 2008 09:51]:

...

I hope that neither CD nor NFS protocol are really downloaded. Both are local protocols.

Well, people have requested just this in the past. It should be configurable.

Unless this can be explained in more words than "it was requested" I stand by my assessment of that being nonsensical.

The use case is "have all relevant packages in one directory so they can be copied to an usb-stick or cdrom and distributed".

I didn't know that usecase. Myself, I find I most often need to keep packages (and look at them) for debugging reasons, only. Thus, I consider an option to keep downloaded packages highly useful. Globally is enough for me. However I am aware that people often want to strictly avoid copying packages of local media (DVD) to local disk, while at the same time they want to cache packages downloaded from remotely. Since people use package managers to set up build systems and image creation, this is somehow a recurring scenario, in my experience. Anyhow, don't forget a command to prune the cache. It is the most important one ;-) And if a "keep packages" configuration ever is the default, be sure to add a cron job to remove all those packages every few months. Filled-up harddisks are very disturbing.

...

One doesn't always have the right CD at hand (or is connected to the right network with NFS access) when trying to install a specific set of packages (installed before to a 'reference' system) on another computer.

Yeah, I see this asked quite a lot on IRC. It would be nice if there was a "download only" option (i.e. download at work, take disk home, install there).

That's why (with yum) there is a "yumdownloader". I use it quite often. I would like to see similar functionality in zypper. Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

Hi, I created http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Failover and like to know what you think about the ideas there. Thanks, Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 09:16:30PM +0100, Dr. Peter Poeml wrote:

I created http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Failover and like to know what you think about the ideas there.

I would like to see this tackled as SoC project. Would someone from you guys be willing to mentor this, together with me? I could provide mentorship for the protocal and server side, but not for the libzypp part. Thanks, Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

Dňa Tuesday 12 February 2008 09:51:16 Michael Matz ste napísal:

Hi,

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

...

I'm working on the functionality to keep the downloaded packages on disk, not removing them.

This needs to be configurable, of course. I'd like to get your views on how much configurability we need.

I see at least the following options: 1) global enable/disable 2) per-repository enable/disable 3) per-access protocol enable/disable (CD, HTTP, FTP, NFS, ...)

Any opinions?

I think (3) makes no sense. IMO the implementation should allow for (2), but the UI should expose only (1) for now. I.e. for the user it's just a global enable/disable, but as the implementation allows for more, we could freely adjust the UI also later, in case someone deems that necessary.

(3) does make sense, however, it can be easily workarounded via (2).

I hope that neither CD nor NFS protocol are really downloaded. Both are local protocols.

My understanding of the media backend implementation is that they are just mounted. Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org