Hi all, Lately, we have been discussing what information YaST should display while installing the system[1]. After considering everything and asking for help from our UX experts, we have decided to start with a minimalistic approach. The idea is to show only the progress bar (with a description, of course, of the current step). So no slideshow, no release notes, no tabs, etc. Additionally, we are integrating the steps in the final screen into the progress bar. Once we have feedback from our users, we can think about extending the solution to display additional info. ## Notes However, we had a nice discussion before reaching that conclusion. So I am sharing a few notes from the meeting. * Release notes: + Do our users read the release notes during installation? + An add-on can have release notes, so YaST uses tabs to display all the release notes (base product and add-ons). + Release notes are available at other points of the installation through a button. So we do not need to show them while installing packages. * The slideshow: + We could get good quality content from https://suse-projects.github.io/ to build a slideshow. + That content will be updated regularly by the marketing team. + Using the content during installation is not that straightforward. For instance, in many environments, the system under installation cannot access the Internet. + Additionally, we need to consider other stuff like screenshots, translations, and so on. * Tabs & buttons: + We use tabs to show the slideshow and the release notes. It feels like mixing different stuff. What about using another mechanism to display release notes? + Displaying the release notes in a pop-up window will not work because the installer will not update the progress bar until the pop-up is closed. It is a known limitation we need to deal with. Regards, Imo [1] https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/yast-devel@lists.opensuse.org/threa... -- Imobach González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE LLC https://imobachgs.github.io/
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 15:53:32 +0000 Imobach Gonzalez Sosa <IGonzalezSosa@suse.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Lately, we have been discussing what information YaST should display while installing the system[1]. After considering everything and asking for help from our UX experts, we have decided to start with a minimalistic approach. The idea is to show only the progress bar (with a description, of course, of the current step). So no slideshow, no release notes, no tabs, etc.
Hi, I adapt my code to show how it looks[1]. Code is very simplified, only tricky part is still API for setup which use, for legacy reason and to keep changes minimal, progress value with mixture of time and disk size from which it is computed with some magic number size of steps. Josef [1] https://paste.opensuse.org/3264023
Hi, On 24.11.21, 08:42, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 15:53:32 +0000 Imobach Gonzalez Sosa <IGonzalezSosa@suse.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Lately, we have been discussing what information YaST should display > while installing the system[1]. After considering everything and asking > for help from our UX experts, we have decided to start with a > minimalistic approach. The idea is to show only the progress bar (with > a description, of course, of the current step). So no slideshow, no > release notes, no tabs, etc. Hi, I adapt my code to show how it looks[1]. Code is very simplified, only tricky part is still API for setup which use, for legacy reason and to keep changes minimal, progress value with mixture of time and disk size from which it is computed with some magic number size of steps. Josef [1] https://paste.opensuse.org/3264023 Looks good __ Maybe we could vertically center the progress bar? It currently looks a bit lost at the bottom. -- Ken
On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 07:47:40 +0000 Kenneth Wimer <wimer@suse.com> wrote:
Hi,
On 24.11.21, 08:42, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 15:53:32 +0000 Imobach Gonzalez Sosa <IGonzalezSosa@suse.com> wrote:
> Hi all, > > Lately, we have been discussing what information YaST should display > while installing the system[1]. After considering everything and asking > for help from our UX experts, we have decided to start with a > minimalistic approach. The idea is to show only the progress bar (with > a description, of course, of the current step). So no slideshow, no > release notes, no tabs, etc.
Hi, I adapt my code to show how it looks[1]. Code is very simplified, only tricky part is still API for setup which use, for legacy reason and to keep changes minimal, progress value with mixture of time and disk size from which it is computed with some magic number size of steps.
Josef
[1] https://paste.opensuse.org/3264023
Looks good __ Maybe we could vertically center the progress bar? It currently looks a bit lost at the bottom.
-- Ken
It should not be problem. I will try to play with it a bit and send new screenshot. And also adds screenshots of ncurses ones. Josef
On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 07:47 +0000, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
Hi,
On 24.11.21, 08:42, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 15:53:32 +0000 Imobach Gonzalez Sosa <IGonzalezSosa@suse.com> wrote:
> Hi all, > > Lately, we have been discussing what information YaST should display > while installing the system[1]. After considering everything and asking > for help from our UX experts, we have decided to start with a > minimalistic approach. The idea is to show only the progress bar (with > a description, of course, of the current step). So no slideshow, no > release notes, no tabs, etc.
Hi, I adapt my code to show how it looks[1]. Code is very simplified, only tricky part is still API for setup which use, for legacy reason and to keep changes minimal, progress value with mixture of time and disk size from which it is computed with some magic number size of steps.
Josef
[1] https://paste.opensuse.org/3264023
Looks good __ Maybe we could vertically center the progress bar? It currently looks a bit lost at the bottom.
I agree. Taking a look at the screenshot, I see that: * the release notes button is not there (already commented in IRC) * maybe we could get rid of the disabled Back and Next button (not sure if it is easily doable) * we could even change the layout for this last step (??) I mean, not dividing it into two sides and placing the header and the progress bar both vertically centered Just "raising" ideas.
-- Ken
-- -- David Díaz YaST Team at SUSE LINUX GmbH IRC: dgdavid
On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 08:37:40 +0000 David Díaz <dgonzalez@suse.de> wrote:
On Wed, 2021-11-24 at 07:47 +0000, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
Hi,
On 24.11.21, 08:42, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 15:53:32 +0000 Imobach Gonzalez Sosa <IGonzalezSosa@suse.com> wrote:
> Hi all, > > Lately, we have been discussing what information YaST should display > while installing the system[1]. After considering everything and asking > for help from our UX experts, we have decided to start with a > minimalistic approach. The idea is to show only the progress bar (with > a description, of course, of the current step). So no slideshow, no > release notes, no tabs, etc.
Hi, I adapt my code to show how it looks[1]. Code is very simplified, only tricky part is still API for setup which use, for legacy reason and to keep changes minimal, progress value with mixture of time and disk size from which it is computed with some magic number size of steps.
Josef
[1] https://paste.opensuse.org/3264023
Looks good __ Maybe we could vertically center the progress bar? It currently looks a bit lost at the bottom.
I agree.
Taking a look at the screenshot, I see that:
* the release notes button is not there (already commented in IRC)
Hi, I tried in both qt and ncurses release notes button and check how it behave. In QT it works perfectly, as it just open release notes, but progress is still updated and any issue is properly reported with popup showing on top of release notes. In ncurses it is worse. Opening release notes blocks whole installation process. So it does not just stop updating UI, but it also does not install at all. So reading release notes is bad idea. Question is how to proceed here? The simple proposal I have is to simply not show release notes button in ncurses as majority of local users use qt and for remote ones, there are many other ways how to entertain or read release notes outside of installation process. But of course I welcome any other suggestions. Josef
* maybe we could get rid of the disabled Back and Next button (not sure if it is easily doable) * we could even change the layout for this last step (??) I mean, not dividing it into two sides and placing the header and the progress bar both vertically centered
Just "raising" ideas.
-- Ken
On 2021-11-29 10:03, josef Reidinger wrote:
I tried in both qt and ncurses release notes button and check how it behave. In QT it works perfectly, as it just open release notes, but progress is still updated and any issue is properly reported with popup showing on top of release notes. In ncurses it is worse. Opening release notes blocks whole installation process. So it does not just stop updating UI, but it also does not install at all. So reading release notes is bad idea.
Yes, this is expected: In the Qt UI, this uses (as part of the YQWizard) a Qt-based dialog for the release notes which is completely self-sufficient and does its own event handling on the Qt level, so the abstract libyui layer doesn't even know that it exists or is open on top of the main window, so it doesn't interfere with updating that main dialog. In NCurses, this emulates a similar thing, but it's based on a dialog that uses YUI widgets, so it's another libyui dialog that just opens on top of the main dialog and does its own event handling there with UI.UserInput(); but even if it didn't, any attempt to update the main window (the wizard) would fail since all those UI calls always operate on the toplevel dialog which is then that release notes dialog, not the expected wizard window; the widgets that it wants to update with UI.ChangeWidget() or replace with UI.ReplaceWidget() simply don't exist in that dialog, and those calls fail; which is fortunate because UI.ReplaceWidget() throws a fatal exception if it fails (UI.ChangeWidget() just logs a y2error).
Question is how to proceed here? The simple proposal I have is to simply not show release notes button in ncurses as majority of local users use qt and for remote ones, there are many other ways how to entertain or read release notes outside of installation process.
Yes; as we discussed, we don't need the complete luxury version for NCurses; IMHO we can simply omit that "Release Notes" button in NCurses during package installation. The user already had plenty of opportunities to read them: During any previous wizard step during the installation workflow. Let's keep this simple, robust and easy to maintain. Kind regards -- Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de> YaST Developer SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH GF: Ivo Totev; HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg
On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 07:47:40 +0000 Kenneth Wimer <wimer@suse.com> wrote:
Hi,
On 24.11.21, 08:42, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 15:53:32 +0000 Imobach Gonzalez Sosa <IGonzalezSosa@suse.com> wrote:
> Hi all, > > Lately, we have been discussing what information YaST should display > while installing the system[1]. After considering everything and asking > for help from our UX experts, we have decided to start with a > minimalistic approach. The idea is to show only the progress bar (with > a description, of course, of the current step). So no slideshow, no > release notes, no tabs, etc.
Hi, I adapt my code to show how it looks[1]. Code is very simplified, only tricky part is still API for setup which use, for legacy reason and to keep changes minimal, progress value with mixture of time and disk size from which it is computed with some magic number size of steps.
Josef
[1] https://paste.opensuse.org/3264023
Looks good __ Maybe we could vertically center the progress bar? It currently looks a bit lost at the bottom.
-- Ken
And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b Josef
On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote:
And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b
IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for the QT version. And as David commented, maybe we could suppress the surplus buttons. In fact, I would only keep Abort. Regards, Iván -- José Iván López González YaST Team at SUSE LINUX GmbH IRC: jilopez
On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:46:00 +0000 José Iván López González <jlopez@suse.de> wrote:
On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote:
And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b
IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for the QT version.
Thanks for feedback, I worry there is no easy way to switch layout (at least not see it in https://github.com/libyui/libyui/blob/master/libyui/src/YWizard.h ), but I plan to try to close and reopen window in simple screen in QT. I hope blink will be really small.
And as David commented, maybe we could suppress the surplus buttons. In fact, I would only keep Abort.
Sadly it was harder then I thought. Reason is this line in product workflow https://github.com/yast/yast-yast2/blob/9262f2a3829e4ffd34d48fec303530f19e0b... it cause that it is restored at the end of client. So even if I have it at the start, it reappear. If I add it to all steps, it still blink there as it was restored and hidden, causing some button movement on screen, so it does not look good. Only really working solution would be to merge all steps done after proposal screen to single client that do whole deployment. But I am not sure if it is worth and also non-trivial work :(
Regards,
Iván
Josef
On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:09:45 +0100 josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:46:00 +0000 José Iván López González <jlopez@suse.de> wrote:
On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote:
And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b
IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for the QT version.
Thanks for feedback, I worry there is no easy way to switch layout (at least not see it in https://github.com/libyui/libyui/blob/master/libyui/src/YWizard.h ), but I plan to try to close and reopen window in simple screen in QT. I hope blink will be really small.
And here is video with that attempt in QT which opens wizard with whole width. https://youtu.be/ydgpF-agszQ Feel free to comment. I am not sure if it is better or not. Josef
On 06.12.21, 13:46, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:09:45 +0100 josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:46:00 +0000 > José Iván López González <jlopez@suse.de> wrote: > > > On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote: > > > > > > And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b > > > > IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT > > because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for > > the QT version. > > Thanks for feedback, I worry there is no easy way to switch layout (at least not see it in https://github.com/libyui/libyui/blob/master/libyui/src/YWizard.h ), but I plan to try to close and reopen window in simple screen in QT. I hope blink will be really small. > > > And here is video with that attempt in QT which opens wizard with whole width. https://youtu.be/ydgpF-agszQ Feel free to comment. I am not sure if it is better or not. Any chance we can see that with the SUSE theme? Without the left sidebar the effect might not be so bad. -- Ken
On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:38:02 +0000 Kenneth Wimer <wimer@suse.com> wrote:
On 06.12.21, 13:46, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:09:45 +0100 josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:46:00 +0000 > José Iván López González <jlopez@suse.de> wrote: > > > On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote: > > > > > > And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b > > > > IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT > > because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for > > the QT version. > > Thanks for feedback, I worry there is no easy way to switch layout (at least not see it in https://github.com/libyui/libyui/blob/master/libyui/src/YWizard.h ), but I plan to try to close and reopen window in simple screen in QT. I hope blink will be really small. > > >
And here is video with that attempt in QT which opens wizard with whole width. https://youtu.be/ydgpF-agszQ Feel free to comment. I am not sure if it is better or not.
Any chance we can see that with the SUSE theme? Without the left sidebar the effect might not be so bad.
-- Ken
Yes, I can try it with SLE15-SP4 which use SUSE theme. Will create video today. Josef
On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 08:41:37 +0100 josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:38:02 +0000 Kenneth Wimer <wimer@suse.com> wrote:
On 06.12.21, 13:46, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:09:45 +0100 josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:46:00 +0000 > José Iván López González <jlopez@suse.de> wrote: > > > On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote: > > > > > > And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b > > > > IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT > > because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for > > the QT version. > > Thanks for feedback, I worry there is no easy way to switch layout (at least not see it in https://github.com/libyui/libyui/blob/master/libyui/src/YWizard.h ), but I plan to try to close and reopen window in simple screen in QT. I hope blink will be really small. > > >
And here is video with that attempt in QT which opens wizard with whole width. https://youtu.be/ydgpF-agszQ Feel free to comment. I am not sure if it is better or not.
Any chance we can see that with the SUSE theme? Without the left sidebar the effect might not be so bad.
-- Ken
Yes, I can try it with SLE15-SP4 which use SUSE theme. Will create video today. Josef
And here it is ( sorry for taking so long, but video editing take some time and I hit some strange issue with mirroring of latest SLE build ): https://youtu.be/H-IrMonji14 Josef
On 07.12.21, 21:09, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 08:41:37 +0100 josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: > On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:38:02 +0000 > Kenneth Wimer <wimer@suse.com> wrote: > > > On 06.12.21, 13:46, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:09:45 +0100 > > josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:46:00 +0000 > > > José Iván López González <jlopez@suse.de> wrote: > > > > > > > On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote: > > > > > > > > > > And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b > > > > > > > > IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT > > > > because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for > > > > the QT version. > > > > > > Thanks for feedback, I worry there is no easy way to switch layout (at least not see it in https://github.com/libyui/libyui/blob/master/libyui/src/YWizard.h ), but I plan to try to close and reopen window in simple screen in QT. I hope blink will be really small. > > > > > > > > > > > And here is video with that attempt in QT which opens wizard with whole width. https://youtu.be/ydgpF-agszQ > > Feel free to comment. I am not sure if it is better or not. > > > > Any chance we can see that with the SUSE theme? Without the left sidebar the effect might not be so bad. > > > > -- > > Ken > > > > Yes, I can try it with SLE15-SP4 which use SUSE theme. Will create video today. > Josef And here it is ( sorry for taking so long, but video editing take some time and I hit some strange issue with mirroring of latest SLE build ): https://youtu.be/H-IrMonji14 Thanks for trying that out. Unfortunately, it doesn't feel less broken than with the sidebar. As nice as it would be, I don't think we should go this route given the results. -- Ken
On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 21:12:23 +0000 Kenneth Wimer <wimer@suse.com> wrote:
On 07.12.21, 21:09, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 08:41:37 +0100 josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 07:38:02 +0000 > Kenneth Wimer <wimer@suse.com> wrote: > > > On 06.12.21, 13:46, "josef Reidinger" <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:09:45 +0100 > > josef Reidinger <jreidinger@suse.cz> wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:46:00 +0000 > > > José Iván López González <jlopez@suse.de> wrote: > > > > > > > On 11/24/21 09:11, josef Reidinger wrote: > > > > > > > > > > And here is gist with all screenshots comparing both bottom and centered approach - https://gist.github.com/jreidinger/a33f72b7b859a2af6599cdbf9a1a485b > > > > > > > > IMHO, the centered version looks much better in ncurses than in QT > > > > because it expands the whole dialog width. I suggest to do the same for > > > > the QT version. > > > > > > Thanks for feedback, I worry there is no easy way to switch layout (at least not see it in https://github.com/libyui/libyui/blob/master/libyui/src/YWizard.h ), but I plan to try to close and reopen window in simple screen in QT. I hope blink will be really small. > > > > > > > > > > > And here is video with that attempt in QT which opens wizard with whole width. https://youtu.be/ydgpF-agszQ > > Feel free to comment. I am not sure if it is better or not. > > > > Any chance we can see that with the SUSE theme? Without the left sidebar the effect might not be so bad. > > > > -- > > Ken > > > > Yes, I can try it with SLE15-SP4 which use SUSE theme. Will create video today. > Josef
And here it is ( sorry for taking so long, but video editing take some time and I hit some strange issue with mirroring of latest SLE build ): https://youtu.be/H-IrMonji14
Thanks for trying that out. Unfortunately, it doesn't feel less broken than with the sidebar. As nice as it would be, I don't think we should go this route given the results.
-- Ken
Do you have suggestion what else to try? I can play a bit with code and create another video recording. Josef
On 12/7/21 8:38 AM, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
And here is video with that attempt in QT which opens wizard with whole width. https://youtu.be/ydgpF-agszQ Feel free to comment. I am not sure if it is better or not.
Any chance we can see that with the SUSE theme? Without the left sidebar the effect might not be so bad.
It's a little bit boring ;) but does the job well. I've installed Google Android Studio yesterday, which downloads quite some pieces from the internet. It shows the size of the parts to download/install and the current download speed. I'd frankly still appreciate some value in MB/s in our installer. About the left sidebar: we have to try both themes, SLE and openSUSE. Both will use the same code. Thx Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, Systems Mgmt & Consulting Team Leader & YaST Product Owner SLE Department, SUSE Linux
participants (7)
-
David Díaz -
Imobach Gonzalez Sosa -
josef Reidinger -
José Iván López González -
Kenneth Wimer -
Lukas Ocilka -
Stefan Hundhammer