[yast-devel] WebYaST on the Wiki
Hi Henne, on Tuesday you said you were transferring the content to http://wiki.opensuse.org/Portal:YaST . Do you plan to do more there or can we take over now? Now when I look at http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:YaST and http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:WebYaST , where should we put the content to ensure that it is not swept away by a well-meant reorganization? I guess that using the oS wiki for project development documents is somewhat unusual, perhaps we should use some other place? -- Martin Vidner, YaST developer http://en.opensuse.org/User:Mvidner Kuracke oddeleni v restauraci je jako fekalni oddeleni v bazenu
Hey Martin, On 19.07.2010 13:58, Martin Vidner wrote:
on Tuesday you said you were transferring the content to http://wiki.opensuse.org/Portal:YaST . Do you plan to do more there or can we take over now?
By all means that was not meant to stop you from doing anything. I also said that you are welcome to help :)
Now when I look at http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:YaST and http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:WebYaST , where should we put the content to ensure that it is not swept away by a well-meant reorganization?
Where it belongs. Where what belongs is documented in detail on http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Wiki I also blogged about the changes several times on news.o.o http://news.opensuse.org/category/wiki-2/
I guess that using the oS wiki for project development documents is somewhat unusual, perhaps we should use some other place?
Project development documents (and collaborative editing of them) is one of the three things we do with the openSUSE wiki! The only thing that changed from the old wiki in that respect is that it's organized and split from the the end-user product presentation and documentation. In short: Product presentation - Main namespace (all pages without prefix) Problem solutions - Support namespace (SDB: prefix) Project documents - Project namespace (openSUSE: prefix) So you just fill in all your pages into the right namespace and then you use the wiki tools Portal, Categories and Navbars to connect them again. If you need any help with that let us know :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 20 of July 2010 12:25:43 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey Martin,
On 19.07.2010 13:58, Martin Vidner wrote:
on Tuesday you said you were transferring the content to http://wiki.opensuse.org/Portal:YaST . Do you plan to do more there or can we take over now?
By all means that was not meant to stop you from doing anything. I also said that you are welcome to help :)
Sure, but are you transferring the content or does it wait for us?
Now when I look at http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:YaST and http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:WebYaST , where should we put the content to ensure that it is not swept away by a well-meant reorganization?
Where it belongs. Where what belongs is documented in detail on
When the page content present on the old wiki now belongs to some different category, should there be bunch of redirects, right? I guess people expect their favorite pages to stay at the same URL for some time...
I also blogged about the changes several times on news.o.o
One point at this place is "Report Missing Pages" which is actually what are we doing now. Or should we report page by page?
Henne
Jiri -- Jiri Suchomel SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsuchome@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Praha 9, Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 20.07.2010 12:51, Jiří Suchomel wrote:
On Tuesday 20 of July 2010 12:25:43 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey Martin,
On 19.07.2010 13:58, Martin Vidner wrote:
on Tuesday you said you were transferring the content to http://wiki.opensuse.org/Portal:YaST . Do you plan to do more there or can we take over now?
By all means that was not meant to stop you from doing anything. I also said that you are welcome to help :)
Sure, but are you transferring the content or does it wait for us?
Sorry i don't understand what you are asking for. Can you please elaborate? :)
Now when I look at http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:YaST and http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:WebYaST , where should we put the content to ensure that it is not swept away by a well-meant reorganization?
Where it belongs. Where what belongs is documented in detail on
When the page content present on the old wiki now belongs to some different category, should there be bunch of redirects, right?
No. The new wiki is a completely new wiki/page. We don't want to be backward compatible (with the exception of VERY popular pages).
I guess people expect their favorite pages to stay at the same URL for some time...
Well now is the time where they have to update their bookmarks. The web is not static.
I also blogged about the changes several times on news.o.o
One point at this place is
"Report Missing Pages"
which is actually what are we doing now.
Okay, if you don't want to/can't help we can do it for you. No problem, it just will take some time.
Or should we report page by page?
No need to no. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 01:55:10PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Now when I look at http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:YaST and http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:WebYaST , where should we put the content to ensure that it is not swept away by a well-meant reorganization?
Where it belongs. Where what belongs is documented in detail on
Thanks, this is helpful.
When the page content present on the old wiki now belongs to some different category, should there be bunch of redirects, right?
No. The new wiki is a completely new wiki/page. We don't want to be backward compatible (with the exception of VERY popular pages).
I guess people expect their favorite pages to stay at the same URL for some time...
Well now is the time where they have to update their bookmarks. The web is not static.
I disagree. URLs should be stable, especially when the cost is low. I'll start moving the pages to the new locations and I'll put in redirects whenever I find a broken link. -- Martin Vidner, YaST developer http://en.opensuse.org/User:Mvidner Kuracke oddeleni v restauraci je jako fekalni oddeleni v bazenu
Hey, On 20.07.2010 14:04, Martin Vidner wrote:
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 01:55:10PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Now when I look at http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:YaST and http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:WebYaST , where should we put the content to ensure that it is not swept away by a well-meant reorganization?
Where it belongs. Where what belongs is documented in detail on
Thanks, this is helpful.
If there is anything else just swing by #opensuse-wiki or opensuse-wiki@opensuse.org :)
When the page content present on the old wiki now belongs to some different category, should there be bunch of redirects, right?
No. The new wiki is a completely new wiki/page. We don't want to be backward compatible (with the exception of VERY popular pages).
I guess people expect their favorite pages to stay at the same URL for some time...
Well now is the time where they have to update their bookmarks. The web is not static.
I disagree. URLs should be stable, especially when the cost is low. I'll start moving the pages to the new locations and I'll put in redirects whenever I find a broken link.
Don't please. We have put a lot of work into this new structure and we don't need to destroy it again with tons of redirects. Please follow the new guidelines. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Hello, On Jul 20 14:35 Henne Vogelsang wrote (shortened):
On 20.07.2010 14:04, Martin Vidner wrote:
I disagree. URLs should be stable, especially when the cost is low. I'll start moving the pages to the new locations and I'll put in redirects whenever I find a broken link.
Don't please. We have put a lot of work into this new structure and we don't need to destroy it again with tons of redirects. Please follow the new guidelines.
Our users out there do not care at all about your new guidelines. For our users all links which we provide to them at zillions of various places (like manuals, man pages, YaST help texts, whatever other documentation) have to work. Therefore redirects are needed - not for each old article - but for each old article for which we provide a link to our users. Just one single example: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=623860 Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 02:04:55PM +0200, Martin Vidner wrote:
I'll start moving the pages to the new locations [...]
I have moved http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:WebYaST_Branches (formerly known as http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Web/Development/Branches ) Does anyone feel like writing up a short list of what should be moved/rewritten/reanimated first? From close up the hill seems steeper than from afar :-/ Select from memory, from your broken bookmarks or from here: http://old-en.opensuse.org/Category:WebYaST -- Martin Vidner, YaST developer http://en.opensuse.org/User:Mvidner Kuracke oddeleni v restauraci je jako fekalni oddeleni v bazenu
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 02:52:18PM +0200, Johannes Meixner wrote:
On Jul 20 14:35 Henne Vogelsang wrote (shortened):
On 20.07.2010 14:04, Martin Vidner wrote:
I disagree. URLs should be stable, especially when the cost is low. I'll start moving the pages to the new locations and I'll put in redirects whenever I find a broken link.
Don't please. We have put a lot of work into this new structure and we don't need to destroy it again with tons of redirects. Please follow the new guidelines.
[...]
Therefore redirects are needed - not for each old article - but for each old article for which we provide a link to our users.
Exactly. If the redirects indeed destroy the new structure, which is valuable and I do appreciate the work people put in it, then it is a bug in the wiki engine that we should fix. The redirects should invisibly sit there and only help when someone uses an old link. -- Martin Vidner, YaST developer http://en.opensuse.org/User:Mvidner Kuracke oddeleni v restauraci je jako fekalni oddeleni v bazenu
Hello, On Jul 20 14:52 Johannes Meixner wrote (shortened):
For our users all links which we provide to them at zillions of various places (like manuals, man pages, YaST help texts, whatever other documentation) have to work.
Examples (after a quick grep in man-pages and /usr/share/doc/): http://en.opensuse.org/Scout http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs:OOo http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Locksfile http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/URI http://en.opensuse.org/Standards/Repository_Index_Service http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate/Mailinglists http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Sysconfig http://en.opensuse.org/S2ram http://en.opensuse.org/Pm-utils http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Development/Printer_Enhancement http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Development http://en.opensuse.org/Package_Search/Design http://en.opensuse.org/Standards/One_Click_Install http://en.opensuse.org/AppArmor http://en.opensuse.org/Linuxrc http://en.opensuse.org/Apache http://en.opensuse.org/AppArmor_Geeks http://en.opensuse.org/NTFS-3g http://en.opensuse.org/SuSE_install_with_PXE_boot http://en.opensuse.org/NTFS http://en.opensuse.org/Skype_HOWTO http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSync http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs/YaST http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation http://en.opensuse.org/Hardware ... [and many many more] ... Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On 20.07.2010 15:04, Martin Vidner wrote:
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 02:52:18PM +0200, Johannes Meixner wrote:
On Jul 20 14:35 Henne Vogelsang wrote (shortened):
On 20.07.2010 14:04, Martin Vidner wrote:
I disagree. URLs should be stable, especially when the cost is low. I'll start moving the pages to the new locations and I'll put in redirects whenever I find a broken link.
Don't please. We have put a lot of work into this new structure and we don't need to destroy it again with tons of redirects. Please follow the new guidelines.
[...]
Therefore redirects are needed - not for each old article - but for each old article for which we provide a link to our users.
Exactly. If the redirects indeed destroy the new structure, which is valuable and I do appreciate the work people put in it, then it is a bug in the wiki engine that we should fix. The redirects should invisibly sit there and only help when someone uses an old link.
Guys, get real. We wont patch around in mediawiki just so the few very low traffic links to your wiki pages still work. Fix links where ever you find them wrong. This is a NEW web-page. The first YaST page is not even on the top 100 of the popular pages of the old wiki... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
You switched to the new wiki exactly at the time when openSUSE 11.3 was released which invalidates most of the http://en.opensuse.org/ links which we provide to our users in whatever kind of documentation and now you tell us that we should fix the links in all affected openSUSE 11.3 packages? Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On 20.07.2010 14:59, Martin Vidner wrote:
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 02:04:55PM +0200, Martin Vidner wrote:
I'll start moving the pages to the new locations [...]
I have moved http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:WebYaST_Branches (formerly known as http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Web/Development/Branches )
Does anyone feel like writing up a short list of what should be moved/rewritten/reanimated first? From close up the hill seems steeper than from afar :-/
Its not really. You "just" have to get the old wiki thinking out of your system. The initial page /YaST/Web gives an introduction to the whole topic of webyast, it connects all the pages. In the new wiki this is the task of Portals. /YaST/Web -> Portal:Webyast There is a page template for Portals so you just have to load that and then fill out the boxes. Have a look at the other portals to get inspired on the content. The pages /YaST/Web/Project and /YaST/Web/Project/Details are about the people that work on webyast right? We limited the names for projects, teams, sub-projects and so on just to team. So /YaST/Web/Project and /YaST/Web/Project/Details -> openSUSE:Webyast_team There is a page template for Team pages so you just have to load that and then fill it out. For nearly all the other pages you just have to get rid of the stupid sub-page structure, name them like their content and put them in the openSUSE: namespace. So YaST/Web/Architecture -> openSUSE:Webyast architecture YaST/Web/Development -> openSUSE:Webyast development YaST/Web/Development/Testing -> openSUSE:Webyast testing The only thing you have to create new is the page in the "product brochure" (main namespace) about webyast. A nice glossy page about webyast and its features so your _users_ actually find something useful. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On 20.07.2010 15:30, Johannes Meixner wrote:
You switched to the new wiki exactly at the time when openSUSE 11.3 was released which invalidates most of the http://en.opensuse.org/ links which we provide to our users in whatever kind of documentation and now you tell us that we should fix the links in all affected openSUSE 11.3 packages?
First fix them in Factory. I think about doing a cumulative update for 11.3. BTW next time you are welcome to help with such a big task and make sure we don't forget man-pages in the migration. For now you have to live with it :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Henne Vogelsang -
Jiří Suchomel -
Johannes Meixner -
Martin Vidner