[yast-devel] Second round: new features in the Partitioner UI
Hi Ken (and yast-devel audience in general). We already implemented a first prototype of the new partitioner UI which makes RAIDs partitionable by adapting dynamically the set of buttons at the bottom of the table (to reflect only actions that apply to the selected row). But there are still too many buttons to fit nicely in 80x24. So we prepared the following gist with (animated) images explaining the current problems and some possible solutions. We need advise to move forward. https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/bf81a230e2a4634df7a05b90a1241116#file-partit... Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Ancor, Judging from the gifs, the two line approach seems to work well in regards to noticing the buttons change but it feels hierarchical, as if "Add Raid" is the main function and the others are sub-functions of that. Perhaps I can join a call tomorrow and we could discuss the details? Regards, Ken
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> 09/18/18 4:18 PM >>> Hi Ken (and yast-devel audience in general).
We already implemented a first prototype of the new partitioner UI which makes RAIDs partitionable by adapting dynamically the set of buttons at the bottom of the table (to reflect only actions that apply to the selected row). But there are still too many buttons to fit nicely in 80x24. So we prepared the following gist with (animated) images explaining the current problems and some possible solutions. We need advise to move forward. https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/bf81a230e2a4634df7a05b90a1241116#file-partit... Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/19/2018 01:29 PM, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
Hi Ancor,
Judging from the gifs, the two line approach seems to work well in regards to noticing the buttons change but it feels hierarchical, as if "Add Raid" is the main function and the others are sub-functions of that.
Perhaps I can join a call tomorrow and we could discuss the details?
That would be great. See you tomorrow (Thursday) at 11 AM at https://jangouts.suse.de/#/rooms/2025
Regards, Ken
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> 09/18/18 4:18 PM >>> Hi Ken (and yast-devel audience in general).
We already implemented a first prototype of the new partitioner UI which makes RAIDs partitionable by adapting dynamically the set of buttons at the bottom of the table (to reflect only actions that apply to the selected row).
But there are still too many buttons to fit nicely in 80x24. So we prepared the following gist with (animated) images explaining the current problems and some possible solutions. We need advise to move forward.
https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/bf81a230e2a4634df7a05b90a1241116#file-partit...
Cheers.
-- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/19/2018 01:45 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 09/19/2018 01:29 PM, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
Hi Ancor,
Judging from the gifs, the two line approach seems to work well in regards to noticing the buttons change but it feels hierarchical, as if "Add Raid" is the main function and the others are sub-functions of that.
Perhaps I can join a call tomorrow and we could discuss the details?
That would be great. See you tomorrow (Thursday) at 11 AM at https://jangouts.suse.de/#/rooms/2025
The conversation just took place. Here are some notes for those interested. First of all, this is a really though subject. We are still unsure what is the best solution and what could be the users' response to the changes. So the best we can do is try out some things and see how they work in the mid-term. About removing the dots ======================= We will keep them for the time being. After all, the lack of space shouldn't be a cause for ignoring a style guide. Is still true that the style guide is outdated and doesn't match 100% the partitioner approach. And it's also true that the style guide is already being ignored in many YaST modules. But let's try to remain true to the guide as long as we can do it. We also mentioned the possibility of using the "…" character, that only eats one space in ncurses. But we are quite scared about the i18n consequences. Or do you guys believe it's a valid way out? About grouping buttons ====================== We concluded that having a menu-button for "show", as suggested in the section "Possible improvements 3" of the gist didn't look like a good idea. Also having a menu-button for "add" feels kind of wrong, since it would group actions that work over the whole set (like adding a new RAID or a new VG) and actions that refer to the currently selected entry (like adding a partition to the selected RAID or adding an LV to the selected VG). Menu-buttons for "delete" and "edit" seems to make more sense. Specially the latter. Having a "Edit" menu button would allow us to resolve the current ambiguity about the meaning of the word (sometimes it means formatting, sometimes it means jumping to the list of partitions...). It would also match a typical UI expectation - an "edit" menu containing a list of possible actions on the selected element. And last but not least, "edit" is basically the only menu-button that makes sense to all elements in all tables. About adding a second line of buttons ===================================== This have both pros and cons. In the "Hard disks" section could be too overwhelming, but in general it looks like a valid approach for "advanced" sections like RAID and "Volume Management". Conclusions / result ==================== It was a rather long conversation full of insights and side-tracks, so I may be skipping important information. But I feel I have enough information to propose a prototype. Stay tuned for that. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/20/2018 01:04 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 09/19/2018 01:45 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 09/19/2018 01:29 PM, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
Hi Ancor,
Judging from the gifs, the two line approach seems to work well in regards to noticing the buttons change but it feels hierarchical, as if "Add Raid" is the main function and the others are sub-functions of that.
Perhaps I can join a call tomorrow and we could discuss the details?
That would be great. See you tomorrow (Thursday) at 11 AM at https://jangouts.suse.de/#/rooms/2025
The conversation just took place. Here are some notes for those interested.
First of all, this is a really though subject. We are still unsure what is the best solution and what could be the users' response to the changes. So the best we can do is try out some things and see how they work in the mid-term.
About removing the dots =======================
We will keep them for the time being. After all, the lack of space shouldn't be a cause for ignoring a style guide.
Is still true that the style guide is outdated and doesn't match 100% the partitioner approach. And it's also true that the style guide is already being ignored in many YaST modules. But let's try to remain true to the guide as long as we can do it.
We also mentioned the possibility of using the "…" character, that only eats one space in ncurses. But we are quite scared about the i18n consequences. Or do you guys believe it's a valid way out?
About grouping buttons ======================
We concluded that having a menu-button for "show", as suggested in the section "Possible improvements 3" of the gist didn't look like a good idea.
Also having a menu-button for "add" feels kind of wrong, since it would group actions that work over the whole set (like adding a new RAID or a new VG) and actions that refer to the currently selected entry (like adding a partition to the selected RAID or adding an LV to the selected VG).
Menu-buttons for "delete" and "edit" seems to make more sense. Specially the latter. Having a "Edit" menu button would allow us to resolve the current ambiguity about the meaning of the word (sometimes it means formatting, sometimes it means jumping to the list of partitions...). It would also match a typical UI expectation - an "edit" menu containing a list of possible actions on the selected element. And last but not least, "edit" is basically the only menu-button that makes sense to all elements in all tables.
About adding a second line of buttons =====================================
This have both pros and cons. In the "Hard disks" section could be too overwhelming, but in general it looks like a valid approach for "advanced" sections like RAID and "Volume Management".
Conclusions / result ====================
It was a rather long conversation full of insights and side-tracks, so I may be skipping important information. But I feel I have enough information to propose a prototype. Stay tuned for that.
Find below a link to a gist with a possible idea that tries to use: - (1) menu buttons for grouping actions that are similar/related - (2) two lines to separate general actions from actions to be performed on the selected item. About (1), today during the conversation it became obvious than grouping the "Add xxx" or the "Delete xxx" actions in menu-buttons made little sense. That's grouping by the name of the button (both start with "add", so let's group them!) rather than by their meaning/scope. So the grouping is actually different to everything we had suggested before. Some decisions/grouping may look strange at first glance when thinking locally about a concrete screen. But I hope they are justified by looking at the consistency of the big picture. And I hope the weirdness can be mitigating just improving a bit the wording of the buttons. So here is the link: https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/5e5fd016eb7db7413a1972d52f9ae913 Please provide (at least) feedback or (desirably) alternatives. During next sprint (starting next Monday) we will start implementing the most promising idea (whatever it is) to see how people reacts to it. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/20/2018 05:20 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Find below a link to a gist with a possible idea that tries to use:
- (1) menu buttons for grouping actions that are similar/related - (2) two lines to separate general actions from actions to be performed on the selected item.
About (1), today during the conversation it became obvious than grouping the "Add xxx" or the "Delete xxx" actions in menu-buttons made little sense. That's grouping by the name of the button (both start with "add", so let's group them!) rather than by their meaning/scope. So the grouping is actually different to everything we had suggested before.
Some decisions/grouping may look strange at first glance when thinking locally about a concrete screen. But I hope they are justified by looking at the consistency of the big picture. And I hope the weirdness can be mitigating just improving a bit the wording of the buttons.
For example, the following wording may be less disruptive (since it use "Edit" in a more familiar way) and more clear. The list of (menu)-buttons is exactly the same than in the gist with the same order and the same meaning, just with the following labels. When a Hard Disk is selected: ============================= Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Hard Disk -> Create New Partition Table Partitions (menu-button) -> Edit Partitions -> Add Partition -> Delete Partitions -> Clone Partitions to Another Device When a RAID is selected: ======================== Modify (menu-button) -> Edit RAID -> Change Used Devices -> Create New Partition Table Partitions (menu-button with same options than above) Delete RAID When a Partition is selected: ============================= Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Partition -> Resize Partition -> Move Partition Delete Partition
So here is the link: https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/5e5fd016eb7db7413a1972d52f9ae913
Please provide (at least) feedback or (desirably) alternatives. During next sprint (starting next Monday) we will start implementing the most promising idea (whatever it is) to see how people reacts to it.
Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 9/20/18 3:11 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 09/20/2018 05:20 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Find below a link to a gist with a possible idea that tries to use:
- (1) menu buttons for grouping actions that are similar/related - (2) two lines to separate general actions from actions to be performed on the selected item.
About (1), today during the conversation it became obvious than grouping the "Add xxx" or the "Delete xxx" actions in menu-buttons made little sense. That's grouping by the name of the button (both start with "add", so let's group them!) rather than by their meaning/scope. So the grouping is actually different to everything we had suggested before.
Some decisions/grouping may look strange at first glance when thinking locally about a concrete screen. But I hope they are justified by looking at the consistency of the big picture. And I hope the weirdness can be mitigating just improving a bit the wording of the buttons.
For example, the following wording may be less disruptive (since it use "Edit" in a more familiar way) and more clear. The list of (menu)-buttons is exactly the same than in the gist with the same order and the same meaning, just with the following labels.
When a Hard Disk is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Hard Disk -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button) -> Edit Partitions -> Add Partition -> Delete Partitions -> Clone Partitions to Another Device
When a RAID is selected: ========================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit RAID -> Change Used Devices -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button with same options than above)
Delete RAID
When a Partition is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Partition -> Resize Partition -> Move Partition
Delete Partition
So here is the link: https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/5e5fd016eb7db7413a1972d52f9ae913
Please provide (at least) feedback or (desirably) alternatives. During next sprint (starting next Monday) we will start implementing the most promising idea (whatever it is) to see how people reacts to it.
Cheers.
Ahh, much better. I was just about to send you a reply suggesting such wording, as the gist itself looked like it would have been to confusing for less technical people. I would like to see terms stay somewhat similar to what someone using GParted might see, or also for people coming from the MS world, much like what they would see in a Windows-type partitioner. Your examples here would be much more intuitive. -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
V Fri, 21 Sep 2018 00:11:31 +0200 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> napsáno:
On 09/20/2018 05:20 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Find below a link to a gist with a possible idea that tries to use:
- (1) menu buttons for grouping actions that are similar/related - (2) two lines to separate general actions from actions to be performed on the selected item.
About (1), today during the conversation it became obvious than grouping the "Add xxx" or the "Delete xxx" actions in menu-buttons made little sense. That's grouping by the name of the button (both start with "add", so let's group them!) rather than by their meaning/scope. So the grouping is actually different to everything we had suggested before.
Some decisions/grouping may look strange at first glance when thinking locally about a concrete screen. But I hope they are justified by looking at the consistency of the big picture. And I hope the weirdness can be mitigating just improving a bit the wording of the buttons.
For example, the following wording may be less disruptive (since it use "Edit" in a more familiar way) and more clear. The list of (menu)-buttons is exactly the same than in the gist with the same order and the same meaning, just with the following labels.
When a Hard Disk is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Hard Disk -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button) -> Edit Partitions -> Add Partition -> Delete Partitions -> Clone Partitions to Another Device
When a RAID is selected: ========================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit RAID -> Change Used Devices -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button with same options than above)
Delete RAID
When a Partition is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Partition -> Resize Partition -> Move Partition
Delete Partition
So here is the link: https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/5e5fd016eb7db7413a1972d52f9ae913
Please provide (at least) feedback or (desirably) alternatives. During next sprint (starting next Monday) we will start implementing the most promising idea (whatever it is) to see how people reacts to it.
Cheers.
Hi, I check gist and I quite like that dynamic behavior which changes with selection. Gouping by meaning is fine for me. I do not like so much that two levels of button. It looks visually disturbing to me.Can you also try to attach at least one qt screenshot so we have some idea how it will look there? BTW when we modify it, I think we can add those dynamic buttons also to "System View" where you should quickly partition whole setup on small system ( single or two disks ). And there makes sense for me that "Add..." which allows to add raid/lvm/bcache whatever top level can be added. BTW2 for me table looks quite compressed and I do not see partition label which can be very useful for scenarious where is multiple disk with more partitions. What about changing That Size collumn to not have everywhere that ".00" and show "790 GiB" instead of "0.79 TiB" so it will be more consistent with rest of table ? Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/21/2018 09:16 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:
V Fri, 21 Sep 2018 00:11:31 +0200 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> napsáno:
For example, the following wording may be less disruptive (since it use "Edit" in a more familiar way) and more clear. The list of (menu)-buttons is exactly the same than in the gist with the same order and the same meaning, just with the following labels.
When a Hard Disk is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Hard Disk -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button) -> Edit Partitions -> Add Partition -> Delete Partitions -> Clone Partitions to Another Device
When a RAID is selected: ========================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit RAID -> Change Used Devices -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button with same options than above)
Delete RAID
When a Partition is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Partition -> Resize Partition -> Move Partition
Delete Partition
So here is the link: https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/5e5fd016eb7db7413a1972d52f9ae913
Please provide (at least) feedback or (desirably) alternatives. During next sprint (starting next Monday) we will start implementing the most promising idea (whatever it is) to see how people reacts to it.
Cheers.
Hi, I check gist and I quite like that dynamic behavior which changes with selection. Gouping by meaning is fine for me. I do not like so much that two levels of button. It looks visually disturbing to me.Can you also try to attach at least one qt screenshot so we have some idea how it will look there?
Your wish is my command. ;-) Find here an updated version of the proposal, with the new wording, with Qt screenshots (in addition to the ncurses ones) and reflecting the possibility of adding the actions buttons to the so-called System Page that summarizes all the devices in one table. https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/25eb67a90b666ec2211ca34034df8771 If no better idea pops-up, I would like to start implementing that idea next week. So please provide feedback!
BTW when we modify it, I think we can add those dynamic buttons also to "System View" where you should quickly partition whole setup on small system ( single or two disks ). And there makes sense for me that "Add..." which allows to add raid/lvm/bcache whatever top level can be added.
BTW2 for me table looks quite compressed and I do not see partition label which can be very useful for scenarious where is multiple disk with more partitions. What about changing That Size collumn to not have everywhere that ".00" and show "790 GiB" instead of "0.79 TiB" so it will be more consistent with rest of table ?
Maybe we could do it as part of the PBI to change the buttons, as a bonus. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Sorry, I am quite late with this, but I would like to share my insight about this topic. I have put some words down here [1] as a comment in the gist. What do you think about it? Anyway, after talking with Ancor, the most efficient way to go is to release current version in TW and then open the topic in a more generic mailing list. See you, Iván [1] https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/25eb67a90b666ec2211ca34034df8771#gistcomment... On 9/21/18 12:34 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 09/21/2018 09:16 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:
V Fri, 21 Sep 2018 00:11:31 +0200 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> napsáno:
For example, the following wording may be less disruptive (since it use "Edit" in a more familiar way) and more clear. The list of (menu)-buttons is exactly the same than in the gist with the same order and the same meaning, just with the following labels.
When a Hard Disk is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Hard Disk -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button) -> Edit Partitions -> Add Partition -> Delete Partitions -> Clone Partitions to Another Device
When a RAID is selected: ========================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit RAID -> Change Used Devices -> Create New Partition Table
Partitions (menu-button with same options than above)
Delete RAID
When a Partition is selected: =============================
Modify (menu-button) -> Edit Partition -> Resize Partition -> Move Partition
Delete Partition
So here is the link: https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/5e5fd016eb7db7413a1972d52f9ae913
Please provide (at least) feedback or (desirably) alternatives. During next sprint (starting next Monday) we will start implementing the most promising idea (whatever it is) to see how people reacts to it.
Cheers.
Hi, I check gist and I quite like that dynamic behavior which changes with selection. Gouping by meaning is fine for me. I do not like so much that two levels of button. It looks visually disturbing to me.Can you also try to attach at least one qt screenshot so we have some idea how it will look there?
Your wish is my command. ;-)
Find here an updated version of the proposal, with the new wording, with Qt screenshots (in addition to the ncurses ones) and reflecting the possibility of adding the actions buttons to the so-called System Page that summarizes all the devices in one table.
https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/25eb67a90b666ec2211ca34034df8771
If no better idea pops-up, I would like to start implementing that idea next week. So please provide feedback!
BTW when we modify it, I think we can add those dynamic buttons also to "System View" where you should quickly partition whole setup on small system ( single or two disks ). And there makes sense for me that "Add..." which allows to add raid/lvm/bcache whatever top level can be added.
BTW2 for me table looks quite compressed and I do not see partition label which can be very useful for scenarious where is multiple disk with more partitions. What about changing That Size collumn to not have everywhere that ".00" and show "790 GiB" instead of "0.79 TiB" so it will be more consistent with rest of table ?
Maybe we could do it as part of the PBI to change the buttons, as a bonus.
Cheers.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 18 Sep 2018, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Hi Ken (and yast-devel audience in general).
We already implemented a first prototype of the new partitioner UI which makes RAIDs partitionable by adapting dynamically the set of buttons at the bottom of the table (to reflect only actions that apply to the selected row).
But there are still too many buttons to fit nicely in 80x24. So we prepared the following gist with (animated) images explaining the current problems and some possible solutions. We need advise to move forward.
https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/bf81a230e2a4634df7a05b90a1241116#file-partit...
I find the button row way too crowded and my first impulse was: why not clean it up and go for the logical 'add/delete/edit' set? If you think what you'd usually use this menu for: how often do you 'resize' something, let alone 'move' a partition? Versus adding/deleting one. Maybe 'delete all' could also deserve a separate button. So I'd move towards variant 2 or 3. Steffen -- Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you. (chimp Nim, using sign language) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 9/19/18 3:10 PM, Steffen Winterfeldt wrote:
https://gist.github.com/ancorgs/bf81a230e2a4634df7a05b90a1241116#file-partit...
I find the button row way too crowded and my first impulse was: why not clean it up and go for the logical 'add/delete/edit' set?
+1
If you think what you'd usually use this menu for: how often do you 'resize' something, let alone 'move' a partition? Versus adding/deleting one.
+1
Maybe 'delete all' could also deserve a separate button.
Not so sure about this. About making screen space by getting rid of the dots: This might save us (just barely) in English, but it will break for sure in German, French or other languages that typically have longer words. Please consider that. So, moving out less frequently used / needed operations to a menu button sounds like a good suggestion to me - for one thing to save screen space, for another to avoid even more overcrowding. Kind regards -- Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de> YaST Developer SUSE Linux GmbH GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa -
Fraser_Bell -
Josef Reidinger -
José Iván López González -
Kenneth Wimer -
Stefan Hundhammer -
Steffen Winterfeldt