[yast-devel] Feedback needed: users screen
After getting some bug reports about usability of the "create user" screen during installation we have decided to do something about it... but it's not so easy. The current status ================== Here you can see the current screen. http://paste.opensuse.org/29576621 There is quite some functionality hidden there: A) You can select the password encryption method (clicking on "Change...") B) You can select one of only one of these options: B.1) Create a user (Obvious) B.2) Skip user creation (Leaving the form blank and clicking "Next", a confirmation popup will be displayed "This only makes sense in environments with an authentication service. Are you sure?") B.3) Import users from a previous installation. (Clicking on "Change..." and then checking the corresponding checkbox -only visible if users are detected- under the section "authentication method") B.3 is so well hidden that I wouldn't be surprised if nobody uses it or if the feature is full of bugs. Last but not least, the dialog exposes a feature that is not there. The summary suggest that you can change the authentication method, but the only supported option is "local /etc/password". The option is there only to display B.3 (tricky!!). My proposal =========== First of all, I'd move (A) to the final installation summary screen, where we already have things like installing the bootloader on MBR or disabling the firewall, configuring hardware and so on. It's one of those advanced settings that most users will not touch. About B, that's how the proposal would look like... ...if no previous users were detected http://paste.opensuse.org/79458151 ...if a partition with users is detected http://paste.opensuse.org/10570162 Hopefully, everything is self-explanatory with this approach. The problem is that the last screenshot looks too crowded (maybe too much for same verbose languages). But I not sure if I like the alternatives we discussed in irc: - Tabs are discouraged (if not forbidden) in the installer - Displaying a pop-up and/or an additional previous step for importing users if they are detected can be tricky when going backwards and doesn't provide such a good overview about the 3 options. I need to hear (read) more opinions... and I want to fix it this week. So let's keep the conversation realistic :-) Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Ancor & all If you are OK with recieving some user feedback through devel list, I'd like to share my opinion on that. 2016-01-21 11:19 GMT+03:00 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de>:
After getting some bug reports about usability of the "create user" screen during installation we have decided to do something about it... but it's not so easy.
The current status ==================
Here you can see the current screen. http://paste.opensuse.org/29576621 There is quite some functionality hidden there:
A) You can select the password encryption method (clicking on "Change...")
B) You can select one of only one of these options:
B.1) Create a user (Obvious)
B.2) Skip user creation (Leaving the form blank and clicking "Next", a confirmation popup will be displayed "This only makes sense in environments with an authentication service. Are you sure?")
B.3) Import users from a previous installation. (Clicking on "Change..." and then checking the corresponding checkbox -only visible if users are detected- under the section "authentication method")
B.3 is so well hidden that I wouldn't be surprised if nobody uses it or if the feature is full of bugs. Wow, I can only remember one time I've actually seen this dialog about importing existing users
Hopefully, everything is self-explanatory with this approach. The problem is that the last screenshot looks too crowded (maybe too much for same verbose languages). But I not sure if I like the alternatives we discussed in irc. You can get rid of crowdness by not being so verbose, also some option reordering can help. Option 1: Skip user creation (use authentication server) //this can fit in one line even in Russian Option 2: Create new user //selected by default, all the corresponding fields go unchanged If there was an existing installation detected, below goes the same text field as in current screen, but it says smth like "Existing installation was detected at <partition>. You can import users from there" and the button wiil be "Select users".
I think this way all three options will be correctly presented without much visual clutter. -- Regards, Minton. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/21/2016 10:48 AM, Alexander Melentev wrote:
Hi, Ancor & all If you are OK with recieving some user feedback through devel list, I'd like to share my opinion on that.
We are glad to have user feedback!
2016-01-21 11:19 GMT+03:00 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de>:
[strip]
B.3) Import users from a previous installation. (Clicking on "Change..." and then checking the corresponding checkbox -only visible if users are detected- under the section "authentication method")
B.3 is so well hidden that I wouldn't be surprised if nobody uses it or if the feature is full of bugs.
Wow, I can only remember one time I've actually seen this dialog about importing existing users
Hopefully, everything is self-explanatory with this approach. The problem is that the last screenshot looks too crowded (maybe too much for same verbose languages). But I not sure if I like the alternatives we discussed in irc. You can get rid of crowdness by not being so verbose, also some option reordering can help. Option 1: Skip user creation (use authentication server) //this can fit in one line even in Russian Option 2: Create new user //selected by default, all the corresponding fields go unchanged If there was an existing installation detected, below goes the same text field as in current screen, but it says smth like "Existing installation was detected at <partition>. You can import users from there" and the button wiil be "Select users".
So you mean no radio button for importing users. Isn't it? The problem is that then is not so obvious, from my POV, that importing users and creating a new one are exclusive to each other.
I think this way all three options will be correctly presented without much visual clutter.
I'll try a solution with the three radio buttons but with your wording and sorting suggestions. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 21.1.2016 11:11, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Hopefully, everything is self-explanatory with this approach. The problem is that the last screenshot looks too crowded (maybe too much for same verbose languages). But I not sure if I like the alternatives we discussed in irc. You can get rid of crowdness by not being so verbose, also some option reordering can help. Option 1: Skip user creation (use authentication server) //this can fit in one line even in Russian Option 2: Create new user //selected by default, all the corresponding fields go unchanged If there was an existing installation detected, below goes the same text field as in current screen, but it says smth like "Existing installation was detected at <partition>. You can import users from there" and the button wiil be "Select users".
So you mean no radio button for importing users. Isn't it? The problem is that then is not so obvious, from my POV, that importing users and creating a new one are exclusive to each other.
Radio button is a must have as these three options are mutually exclusive (as they are implemented now ~ is that actually correct?). The most used option should be the first. From this POV, importing users from previous / other installation might be even the most useful one. This might differ between openSUSE, SLES and SLED. openSUSE is for home user - local auth method is probably the most used one, so importing from previous installation SLED - corporate ENV -> authentication server SLED - laptop -> one local user, maybe with importing if possible SLES - skip user creation So, I basically don't think it has one good answer for question: what should be the first, as it depends on more than just one circumstances.
I think this way all three options will be correctly presented without much visual clutter.
I'll try a solution with the three radio buttons but with your wording and sorting suggestions.
Side note: is has to fit into 80x25 characters. I'm afraid that an additional text field might not fit (if that was a RichText, it takes 3 lines at minimum). Thanks Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, Systems Management (Yast) Team Leader SLE Department, SUSE Linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 21.1.2016 09:19, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
After getting some bug reports about usability of the "create user" screen during installation we have decided to do something about it... but it's not so easy.
The current status ==================
Here you can see the current screen. http://paste.opensuse.org/29576621 There is quite some functionality hidden there:
A) You can select the password encryption method (clicking on "Change...")
B) You can select one of only one of these options:
B.1) Create a user (Obvious)
B.2) Skip user creation (Leaving the form blank and clicking "Next", a confirmation popup will be displayed "This only makes sense in environments with an authentication service. Are you sure?")
Which has been already questioned by actual users that this might not be 100% true.
B.3) Import users from a previous installation. (Clicking on "Change..." and then checking the corresponding checkbox -only visible if users are detected- under the section "authentication method")
B.3 is so well hidden that I wouldn't be surprised if nobody uses it or if the feature is full of bugs.
Yes, it actually contains some bugs. Not reported yet.
Last but not least, the dialog exposes a feature that is not there. The summary suggest that you can change the authentication method, but the only supported option is "local /etc/password". The option is there only to display B.3 (tricky!!).
In fact, it's another trick :) It should tell you that the new user can be only local (obviously) and no other authentication method is available. It's a magic trick, but not done very well.
My proposal ===========
First of all, I'd move (A) to the final installation summary screen, where we already have things like installing the bootloader on MBR or disabling the firewall, configuring hardware and so on. It's one of those advanced settings that most users will not touch.
Or it could be next to root password, users always have to set it anyway.
About B, that's how the proposal would look like... ...if no previous users were detected http://paste.opensuse.org/79458151 ...if a partition with users is detected http://paste.opensuse.org/10570162
Yes, it matches expectations in a way that only what is possible should be offered. What if you choose to read user data? (BTW, Import, instead of read?) How do you want to present list of users or at least the number of imported users?
Hopefully, everything is self-explanatory with this approach. The problem is that the last screenshot looks too crowded (maybe too much for same verbose languages). But I not sure if I like the alternatives we discussed in irc:
Yes, translation of description for Skip User Creation might be too long.
- Tabs are discouraged (if not forbidden) in the installer
I Agree
- Displaying a pop-up and/or an additional previous step for importing users if they are detected can be tricky when going backwards and doesn't provide such a good overview about the 3 options.
Just make sure that while going back, the correct option is still selected and user knows what will happen.
I need to hear (read) more opinions... and I want to fix it this week. So let's keep the conversation realistic :-)
Thanks! Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, Systems Management (Yast) Team Leader SLE Department, SUSE Linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/21/2016 11:30 AM, Lukas Ocilka wrote:
On 21.1.2016 09:19, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
[...]
[...]
My proposal ===========
First of all, I'd move (A) to the final installation summary screen, where we already have things like installing the bootloader on MBR or disabling the firewall, configuring hardware and so on. It's one of those advanced settings that most users will not touch.
Or it could be next to root password, users always have to set it anyway.
A assume that "next to root password" means one additional step after setting the root password. That would be the easiest option to implement, but I kind of dislike having an extra screen for such a small and "obscure" setting. I believe it belongs to the summary screen because: - Many users will not know what it's about - The default value is good for most cases, a few users would change it If "next to root password" means in the same step that setting the root password, I have even more reasons to dislike it. :-)
[...]
[...]
Cheers -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 22.1.2016 13:35, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
A assume that "next to root password" means one additional step after setting the root password. That would be the easiest option to implement, but I kind of dislike having an extra screen for such a small and "obscure" setting.
No, it's definitely not about adding yet another empty dialog. Next to, is "close to".
I believe it belongs to the summary screen because: - Many users will not know what it's about - The default value is good for most cases, a few users would change it
Then I hope you will get the blessing from Ken later as what I remember, he wanted to remove as much from the summary as possible.
If "next to root password" means in the same step that setting the root password, I have even more reasons to dislike it. :-)
I believe you do, but as you did not write any of them here, it's hard to compare what is worse :) Anyway, I'm neither a designer nor a usability expert, although I've already done quite some bad UI and learned from that a bit. If I knew how to make a simply-looking and understandable UI while having all the requested features, I would probably win a Nobel prize for design! Thanks for taking care Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, Systems Management (Yast) Team Leader SLE Department, SUSE Linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/22/2016 03:13 PM, Lukas Ocilka wrote:
On 22.1.2016 13:35, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
A assume that "next to root password" means one additional step after setting the root password. That would be the easiest option to implement, but I kind of dislike having an extra screen for such a small and "obscure" setting.
No, it's definitely not about adding yet another empty dialog. Next to, is "close to".
I believe it belongs to the summary screen because: - Many users will not know what it's about - The default value is good for most cases, a few users would change it
Then I hope you will get the blessing from Ken later as what I remember, he wanted to remove as much from the summary as possible.
If "next to root password" means in the same step that setting the root password, I have even more reasons to dislike it. :-)
I believe you do, but as you did not write any of them here, it's hard to compare what is worse :)
In addition to the already commented reasons (obscure and usually not changed): - The root password step is currently skipped in some cases (like if "use this password for root" in checked when creating user) - It's abusing a single step that now has a clear goal to do two different things
Anyway, I'm neither a designer nor a usability expert, although I've already done quite some bad UI and learned from that a bit. If I knew how to make a simply-looking and understandable UI while having all the requested features, I would probably win a Nobel prize for design!
Yeah, quite challenging. Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Dne 21.1.2016 v 09:19 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa napsal(a): [...]
B.3) Import users from a previous installation. (Clicking on "Change..." and then checking the corresponding checkbox -only visible if users are detected- under the section "authentication method")
B.3 is so well hidden that I wouldn't be surprised if nobody uses it or if the feature is full of bugs.
JFYI: I used this option when I installed Leap on my home machine. And it worked without any problem, so it's probably not that buggy... :-) -- Ladislav Slezák Appliance department / YaST Developer Lihovarská 1060/12 190 00 Prague 9 / Czech Republic tel: +420 284 028 960 lslezak@suse.com SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 22.1.2016 15:08, Ladislav Slezak wrote:
JFYI: I used this option when I installed Leap on my home machine. And it worked without any problem, so it's probably not that buggy... :-)
yes, it works (it does the job importing one or more users) but try to go here and there, back and forward, select, unselect ... then things start behaving in a strange way -- Lukas Ocilka, Systems Management (Yast) Team Leader SLE Department, SUSE Linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Dne 22.1.2016 v 15:14 Lukas Ocilka napsal(a):
On 22.1.2016 15:08, Ladislav Slezak wrote:
JFYI: I used this option when I installed Leap on my home machine. And it worked without any problem, so it's probably not that buggy... :-)
yes, it works (it does the job importing one or more users)
but try to go here and there, back and forward, select, unselect ...
I see, going back and forth can easily puzzle the installer at many places... -- Ladislav Slezák Appliance department / YaST Developer Lihovarská 1060/12 190 00 Prague 9 / Czech Republic tel: +420 284 028 960 lslezak@suse.com SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Dne 21.1.2016 v 09:19 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa napsal(a):
First of all, I'd move (A) to the final installation summary screen, where we already have things like installing the bootloader on MBR or disabling the firewall, configuring hardware and so on. It's one of those advanced settings that most users will not touch.
Yes, that's a good idea!
About B, that's how the proposal would look like... ...if no previous users were detected http://paste.opensuse.org/79458151 ...if a partition with users is detected http://paste.opensuse.org/10570162
Looks good to me. The last screenshot is a bit crowded, but basicaly that's everything in the 80x25 textmode... I guess that in the default GUI or in a bigger console it will look much better. You could save one line of the text by using the "Skip user creation (use an authentication server)" label for the last item. IMHO it's definitely better that the old version, good work!
- Tabs are discouraged (if not forbidden) in the installer
Yeah, use them only when everything else fails...
- Displaying a pop-up and/or an additional previous step for importing users if they are detected can be tricky when going backwards and doesn't provide such a good overview about the 3 options.
We should avoid popups or additional dialogs, with the new installer project we simplified the installation a lot. We should avoid slowly going back to the previous complex state. HTH Ladislav -- Ladislav Slezák Appliance department / YaST Developer Lihovarská 1060/12 190 00 Prague 9 / Czech Republic tel: +420 284 028 960 lslezak@suse.com SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/21/2016 09:19 AM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
After getting some bug reports about usability of the "create user" screen during installation we have decided to do something about it... but it's not so easy.
[...]
My proposal ===========
First of all, I'd move (A) to the final installation summary screen, where we already have things like installing the bootloader on MBR or disabling the firewall, configuring hardware and so on. It's one of those advanced settings that most users will not touch.
About B, that's how the proposal would look like... ...if no previous users were detected http://paste.opensuse.org/79458151 ...if a partition with users is detected http://paste.opensuse.org/10570162
This is already implemented and fully working here. https://github.com/ancorgs/yast-users/tree/rethink_inst_user This is how it looks at the moment (acceptable, I'd say). http://paste.opensuse.org/47244835 The texts (both the labels and the help) still need some love (suggestions are welcome). But in general it works and behaves correctly in all situations I have tested (including going backwards in the install process)... not to mention a huge code refactoring. Next step, finding a good place for "encryption method". Cheers -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/21/2016 09:19 AM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
After getting some bug reports about usability of the "create user" screen during installation we have decided to do something about it... but it's not so easy.
The current status ==================
Here you can see the current screen. http://paste.opensuse.org/29576621 There is quite some functionality hidden there:
A) You can select the password encryption method (clicking on "Change...")
B) You can select one of only one of these options:
B.1) Create a user (Obvious)
B.2) Skip user creation (Leaving the form blank and clicking "Next", a confirmation popup will be displayed "This only makes sense in environments with an authentication service. Are you sure?")
B.3) Import users from a previous installation. (Clicking on "Change..." and then checking the corresponding checkbox -only visible if users are detected- under the section "authentication method")
B.3 is so well hidden that I wouldn't be surprised if nobody uses it or if the feature is full of bugs.
Last but not least, the dialog exposes a feature that is not there. The summary suggest that you can change the authentication method, but the only supported option is "local /etc/password". The option is there only to display B.3 (tricky!!).
My proposal ===========
[...]
That's why I finally implemented (apart from a huge code refactoring that I cannot emphasize enough). The normal installation workflow have now 2 steps: 1) Creation of user. This is how it looks in a clean system and in a system with previous users http://paste.opensuse.org/49352643 http://paste.opensuse.org/82424404 2) Root's password. As usual, this step is skipped if "use passwd for system administrator" is checked. It looks like always http://paste.opensuse.org/64013174 That's it. No more hidden functionality. But you could be wondering where the encryption method selector ended up. That depends on the content of the proposal section of the control.xml of the distribution. Option a) Nothing (current) - The option is simply not there anymore Option b) users proposal - The installation summary looks like this (check "users settings" section) http://paste.opensuse.org/91473850 Option c) users_encryption proposal - Summary looks like this (check "password encryption...") http://paste.opensuse.org/2932351 With both options b and c, clicking on the name of the method will take the user to this screen http://paste.opensuse.org/1847241 And that is. I'm currently preparing the source code for its final merge into yast2-users. So if you have any feedback, speak up now. :-) Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:41:17 +0100 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
On 01/21/2016 09:19 AM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote: That's why I finally implemented (apart from a huge code refactoring that I cannot emphasize enough).
It looks good for me. Just do you test it in ncurses if it fit minimal screen? Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/27/2016 10:50 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2016 10:41:17 +0100 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
On 01/21/2016 09:19 AM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote: That's why I finally implemented (apart from a huge code refactoring that I cannot emphasize enough).
It looks good for me. Just do you test it in ncurses if it fit minimal screen?
It does. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 27.1.2016 10:41, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
That's it. No more hidden functionality.
Nice! Please be prepared to present this to PM during sprint review.
But you could be wondering where the encryption method selector ended up. That depends on the content of the proposal section of the control.xml of the distribution.
Option a) Nothing (current) - The option is simply not there anymore
Let's wait for the feedback :)
Option b) users proposal - The installation summary looks like this (check "users settings" section) http://paste.opensuse.org/91473850
Option c) users_encryption proposal - Summary looks like this (check "password encryption...") http://paste.opensuse.org/2932351
We were asked to create a new "Security" section for TW / SP2. This might go there in the future - if we actually implement that feature (and in that way).
With both options b and c, clicking on the name of the method will take the user to this screen http://paste.opensuse.org/1847241
We also sometimes use pop-ups for such a simple change, we should unify that and be consistent. BTW, I don't have an answer for what is the right way.
And that is. I'm currently preparing the source code for its final merge into yast2-users. So if you have any feedback, speak up now. :-)
Well done! Thank you :) Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, Systems Management (Yast) Team Leader SLE Department, SUSE Linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Alexander Melentev -
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa -
Josef Reidinger -
Ladislav Slezak -
Lukas Ocilka