Starting the installation in the summary
Hi! Today I opened an issue[1] in yast2-installation for proposing to (almost) start the installation process in the summary screen. Benefits? Since the product control file[2] of each product sets reasonable defaults for most users (correct me if I'm wrong), the installation steps could be shortened. Users should adjust just the desired settings, nothing else. So, there is no reason for forcing them to go through the whole installation options in a specific order (unless, of course, for those dependent/coupled steps). What do you think? PS: I'm not sure if it has been discussed already in the past, but IMHO it worth it to (re)evaluate it. [1] https://github.com/yast/yast-installation/issues/903 [2] https://github.com/yast/yast-installation/blob/master/doc/control-file.md
On 2021-01-18 23:28, David Díaz wrote:
Today I opened an issue[1] in yast2-installation for proposing to (almost) start the installation process in the summary screen.
I am all for it. This means turning full circle after many years of adding more and more steps to the installation workflow. We used to have something that was marketed as the "3 click installer". It was always some more clicks, but not that many; maybe 5 or 6. But the spirit was there. That was the reason for coming up with the proposal in the first place: Propose useful defaults that would fit for most users and give the others a chance to tweak what they don't like. Make that easily accessible and easily discoverable. Then came a lot of interest groups wanting to showcase THEIR favourite features, so they had to get their special workflow step (Btrfs? Disk encryption? ...). Then came issues that nobody dared to decide (what desktop? KDE? GNOME?). Then came the lawyers with their licenses. Then came sales with registration. And so the list goes on and on and on, perverting the idea and spirit behind the proposal. Not so long ago I showed some of our community members (e.g. lcp) screenshots of the old installation workflow back in the SuSE 7.x / 8.x days, and they were amazed; and they unanimously said that's what they wanted, and can we PLEASE have that back? ;-) I couldn't agree more with them. Knd regards -- Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de> YaST Developer SUSE Linux GmbH GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
Am Di, 19. Jan, 2021 um 10:48 A. M. schrieb Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de>:
Not so long ago I showed some of our community members (e.g. lcp) screenshots of the old installation workflow back in the SuSE 7.x / 8.x days, and they were amazed; and they unanimously said that's what they wanted, and can we PLEASE have that back? ;-)
I have a single gripe, and it should be fairly easy to fix: It's not obvious enough that you can click the headers to edit the selected parts of the installation, could we make that more obvious somehow? LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world
On 2021-01-19 10:51, Stasiek Michalski wrote:
Am Di, 19. Jan, 2021 um 10:48 A. M. schrieb Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de>:
Not so long ago I showed some of our community members (e.g. lcp) screenshots of the old installation workflow back in the SuSE 7.x / 8.x days, and they were amazed; and they unanimously said that's what they wanted, and can we PLEASE have that back? ;-)
I have a single gripe, and it should be fairly easy to fix:
It's not obvious enough that you can click the headers to edit the selected parts of the installation, could we make that more obvious somehow?
AFAICS that's something that can probably be fixed with the QSS style sheet; write a rule for that specific widget so HTML headlines are displayed more prominently. If we only had someone knowing how to handle this and willing to do it... (hint, hint... ;-) ) Kind regards -- Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de> YaST Developer SUSE Linux GmbH GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
Am Di, 19. Jan, 2021 um 10:58 A. M. schrieb Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de>:
AFAICS that's something that can probably be fixed with the QSS style sheet; write a rule for that specific widget so HTML headlines are displayed more prominently.
If we only had someone knowing how to handle this and willing to do it... (hint, hint... ;-) )
They already look like links, and that doesn't seem to be enough, I was thinking more of an added element that explicitly says "Modify" or "Edit" instead of relying on clickable headers. LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world
On 2021-01-19 11:01, Stasiek Michalski wrote:
They already look like links, and that doesn't seem to be enough, I was thinking more of an added element that explicitly says "Modify" or "Edit" instead of relying on clickable headers.
Adding more static texts is a bad idea: Users need to read them all the time. They get in the way. They obstruct important stuff. And we also have the menu button below the proposal for just that purpose. Kind regards -- Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de> YaST Developer SUSE Linux GmbH GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
On 2021-01-19 11:21, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 1/19/21 11:08 AM, Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
And we also have the menu button below the proposal for just that purpose.
Only in the ncurses installation. The menu-button is not there in graphical mode.
So somebody removed it while I wasn't here or wasn't looking. Bad move. It was also meant for users who can't use their mouse because it's not working, and for better accessibility for handicapped users. Why was this ever removed? Kind regards -- Stefan Hundhammer <shundhammer@suse.de> YaST Developer SUSE Linux GmbH GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
On 1/19/21 11:26 AM, Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
On 2021-01-19 11:21, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 1/19/21 11:08 AM, Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
And we also have the menu button below the proposal for just that purpose.
Only in the ncurses installation. The menu-button is not there in graphical mode.
So somebody removed it while I wasn't here or wasn't looking. Bad move.
It was also meant for users who can't use their mouse because it's not working, and for better accessibility for handicapped users.
Why was this ever removed?
I don't know. Looking at this, it looks to me like it disappeared in 12.0. https://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=SUSE_Linux_Enterprise_12&p=install It was still there in 11 (and likely the whole 11.x cycle) https://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/suse-linux-enterprise-desktop-11/8/ Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH
On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 12:02:27 +0100 Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
On 1/19/21 11:26 AM, Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
On 2021-01-19 11:21, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 1/19/21 11:08 AM, Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
And we also have the menu button below the proposal for just that purpose.
Only in the ncurses installation. The menu-button is not there in graphical mode.
So somebody removed it while I wasn't here or wasn't looking. Bad move.
It was also meant for users who can't use their mouse because it's not working, and for better accessibility for handicapped users.
Why was this ever removed?
I don't know. Looking at this, it looks to me like it disappeared in 12.0. https://www.server-world.info/en/note?os=SUSE_Linux_Enterprise_12&p=install
It was still there in 11 (and likely the whole 11.x cycle) https://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/suse-linux-enterprise-desktop-11/8/
Cheers.
Here is the change: https://github.com/yast/yast-installation/blob/master/package/yast2-installa...
On Tue, 2021-01-19 at 10:48 +0100, Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
On 2021-01-18 23:28, David Díaz wrote:
Today I opened an issue[1] in yast2-installation for proposing to (almost) start the installation process in the summary screen.
I am all for it. This means turning full circle after many years of adding more and more steps to the installation workflow.
We used to have something that was marketed as the "3 click installer". It was always some more clicks, but not that many; maybe 5 or 6. But the spirit was there.
That was the reason for coming up with the proposal in the first place: Propose useful defaults that would fit for most users and give the others a chance to tweak what they don't like. Make that easily accessible and easily discoverable.
Then came a lot of interest groups wanting to showcase THEIR favourite features, so they had to get their special workflow step (Btrfs? Disk encryption? ...). Then came issues that nobody dared to decide (what desktop? KDE? GNOME?). Then came the lawyers with their licenses. Then came sales with registration.
And so the list goes on and on and on, perverting the idea and spirit behind the proposal.
Thanks a lot, Stefan! It is (at least for me) quite interesting to know how the installer has evolved from an almost single screen to the (long) wizard it is now. However, I still think that despite those reasons it is possible to go for a simpler approach just improving some bits here and there. So, apart from what Ancor says [1] in the Github issue, we can use some known patterns too. E.g., using a "By installing the system I accept terms & conds" in the summary screen that must be checked to start the installation and which contains a link to open a new pop/dialog to read the license. Much less intrusive than the step we have now. And widely used. [1] https://github.com/yast/yast-installation/issues/903#issuecomment-762734046
Not so long ago I showed some of our community members (e.g. lcp) screenshots of the old installation workflow back in the SuSE 7.x / 8.x days, and they were amazed; and they unanimously said that's what they wanted, and can we PLEASE have that back? ;-)
I couldn't agree more with them.
Knd regards
participants (5)
-
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa -
David Díaz -
josef Reidinger -
Stasiek Michalski -
Stefan Hundhammer