[yast-devel] Buttons Abort, Back, Next on Installer
Hi: I wonder if it would be possible to adjust the positions of the Abort, Back, Next buttons (and the equivalent on other installer pages) in the installer? In some cases, where video detection problems are involved, the screen size does not match what is detected, and the buttons are cut off on the right side of the screen. I am one of those with that problem when trying to install. Yes, of course, in such situations, the ncurses installer works fine, but that is disappointing to some, even a little inconvenient because they need to ask around before they find out they could install with the ncurses installer. To a lot of newcomers who experience that problem (Note, I do not mean a lot of newcomers run into that problem, but of those who do), they of course are unimpressed with the ncurses installer, looking kludgy to those who are bottle-fed GUI. My proposal, if it is not too difficult to implement, would be to move the buttons to centre instead of right-aligned. Then, when the right of the screen gets cut off, the buttons are still visible and useable. -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/4/18 11:44 AM, Fraser_Bell wrote:
Hi:
I wonder if it would be possible to adjust the positions of the Abort, Back, Next buttons (and the equivalent on other installer pages) in the installer?
In some cases, where video detection problems are involved, the screen size does not match what is detected, and the buttons are cut off on the right side of the screen.
I am one of those with that problem when trying to install.
Yes, of course, in such situations, the ncurses installer works fine, but that is disappointing to some, even a little inconvenient because they need to ask around before they find out they could install with the ncurses installer.
To a lot of newcomers who experience that problem (Note, I do not mean a lot of newcomers run into that problem, but of those who do), they of course are unimpressed with the ncurses installer, looking kludgy to those who are bottle-fed GUI.
My proposal, if it is not too difficult to implement, would be to move the buttons to centre instead of right-aligned.
Then, when the right of the screen gets cut off, the buttons are still visible and useable.
I did not get any comments on this, so I guess it was missed. Therefore, I am sending it again. -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
V Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:19:35 -0700
Fraser_Bell
On 10/4/18 11:44 AM, Fraser_Bell wrote:
Hi:
I wonder if it would be possible to adjust the positions of the Abort, Back, Next buttons (and the equivalent on other installer pages) in the installer?
In some cases, where video detection problems are involved, the screen size does not match what is detected, and the buttons are cut off on the right side of the screen.
I am one of those with that problem when trying to install.
Yes, of course, in such situations, the ncurses installer works fine, but that is disappointing to some, even a little inconvenient because they need to ask around before they find out they could install with the ncurses installer.
To a lot of newcomers who experience that problem (Note, I do not mean a lot of newcomers run into that problem, but of those who do), they of course are unimpressed with the ncurses installer, looking kludgy to those who are bottle-fed GUI.
My proposal, if it is not too difficult to implement, would be to move the buttons to centre instead of right-aligned.
Then, when the right of the screen gets cut off, the buttons are still visible and useable.
I did not get any comments on this, so I guess it was missed. Therefore, I am sending it again.
Hi Fraser, we receive that message. I am just not sure what to respond as I never see that right side cut off. Also we use it on almost every place this alignment of navigation buttons. My opinion is that this right part of screen cutoff is bug and we should fix that and not workaround it, because that someone can complain that bottom part is cut off and in the end we use just few pixels in middle of screen, which will look a bit suspicions. But it is just my opinion. Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Josef & Ladislav: Thank you for your replies. On 10/11/18 12:05 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:
Hi Fraser, we receive that message. I am just not sure what to respond as I never see that right side cut off. Also we use it on almost every place this alignment of navigation buttons. My opinion is that this right part of screen cutoff is bug and we should fix that and not workaround it, because that someone can complain that bottom part is cut off and in the end we use just few pixels in middle of screen, which will look a bit suspicions.
On 10/11/18 12:38 AM, Ladislav Slezak wrote:
Um, that would not help if the bottom of the screen is cut off as well...
...
IMHO the current layout is good, you can always continue by pressing the button in the right bottom corner. If we moved the buttons to the center then you would need to carefully read the labels to void clicking a wrong button. And users would press a wrong button more often anyway. From the usability POV it would be worse for all users and only helped a bit in few specific cases.
Sorry, I'd keep the current layout unchanged.
Yes, after thinking further on it last night, I was about to post a "never-mind" when instead I got these answers. I was beginning to think of another solution, for sometime in the future when I have enough experience I can contribute more, that would not only address this issue -- which I think is relatively rare, though it does happen to some -- but also the nomodeset thing that was recently discussed. That will be a ways down the road, though. And, since I think it would take some work -- and the Yast Team is already up to their necks in good but hard work -- I think it is something that I should be looking at doing for a major contribution.
I see your point but that is not a solution but a workaround. I'd suggest to report a bug so this issue is really fixed. Or is there any HW combination which always results in broken screen detection? Maybe then YaST could print some hints at the beginning in such case.
In my case, which is somewhat unique, it happens because I am using an older laptop with a shattered screen as my desktop machine. I have a large Acer external monitor attached to it with a Wide-Screen aspect that does not get detected properly in the case of the installer. Works just fine once installed, though. And, since I do not mind using the ncurses installer, it really is not an issue to me personally.
You can select the installer screen resolution using the F3 key in the boot menu. If you manually select the correct resolution then it should work. Or is the correct resolution missing in the list?
I have tried various methods in this regard, all fail. Hunted online, checked all linuxrc options, even tried some bizarre methods of trying to override it. In my case, something that gives the option of "Use External Monitor?" would probably work, but that does not address all the other Users' specific problems. Although, something like that would also solve some problems for those who are using dual monitor setups, ie: The problem of the login dialogue popping up off-screen or on the wrong monitor. On the Forums, I will continue to say "try the ncurses installer" as a solution until I can come up with a better method.
BTW you can still press Alt+N as a keyboard shortcut for the [Next] button. But obviously this depends on the selected language and some dialogs might use a different key.
The ncurses UI uses F-keys for the navigation (F8=Back, F9=Abort/Cancel, F10=Next/OK), maybe implementing also these keys in Qt UI would help. But the problem is that the users would need to know that or at least should be able to easily find out these shortcuts.
Ladislav
... yes, and I see the problem with this, as it would need to add yet another button or something, such as a popup, to the installer intro that would list all these shortcuts for the affected Users. Something that is probably not that desirable, since it is only addressing a fringe set of Users. Thanks again for your replies. I will contact you when I have some better ideas and can help out. Don't hold your breath, though, because you will turn an awful deep colour of purple waiting for me to get to that point. ;-) -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Dne 12. 10. 18 v 0:28 Fraser_Bell napsal(a): [...]
In my case, which is somewhat unique, it happens because I am using an older laptop with a shattered screen as my desktop machine. I have a large Acer external monitor attached to it with a Wide-Screen aspect that does not get detected properly in the case of the installer. Works just fine once installed, though.
I see, so this seems to be related to the dual-head setup. YaST currently does not allow to change the screen resolution nor to configure the dual-head directly. The installation system already includes the "xrandr" command line tool, but that is difficult to use, that's not an option for newbies. But we could use an existing GUI tool for that, I found out that we have "lxrandr" tool in the distribution. It allows switching the screen resolution in a user friendly way. For resizing the YaST window we can use the "wmctrl" tool, see item 6) below. To include the tools in the installer and test them manually follow these steps: 1) Boot the Leap 15.0 installation with this extra boot option (internet access is required): info=https://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/67301180 This paste includes a list of packages added to the installation system. Instead of this "info" option you could write all that "dud" options, but that would be annoying. This is a shortcut. 2) Confirm downloading not signed packages (linuxrc cannot verify the checksums, but this is safe as the packages are downloaded from download.o.o using the secure HTTPS protocol). 3) When YaST displays the first dialog (language and license) press the Ctrl+Alt+Shift+X key combination to open an xterm window. 4) Start "lxrandr" from the terminal. 5) Now you should be able to set the screen resolutions and configure the monitors. I have tested it in a VirtualBox VM where it is difficult (not possible) to simulate a real dual-head setup. But I was able to change the screen resolution. According to this [1] screenshot it should be also possible to enable screen mirroring or to switch between the laptop built-in LCD and the external monitor. 6) However, after decreasing the resolution the YaST window became cut-off. I guess after increasing the resolution there will be black borders. And because YaST is running in full-screen mode you cannot resize it using mouse. But you can do it manually, from the xterm run: wmctrl -r YaST2 -e 0,0,0,<width>,<height> Replace <width> and <height> with the real screen resolution selected in the lxrandr tool. Please test it, if that works for you we could possibly include the tools directly in the installer and add a new button like "Screen Configuration" into the very first dialog to start the "lxrandr" tool. And possibly we could run the "wmctrl" command automatically after "lxrandr" is closed. Ladislav [1] https://askubuntu.com/questions/259785/where-does-lxrandr-save-its-display-c... -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, Dne 04. 10. 18 v 20:44 Fraser_Bell napsal(a):
My proposal, if it is not too difficult to implement, would be to move the buttons to centre instead of right-aligned.
Um, that would not help if the bottom of the screen is cut off as well... I see your point but that is not a solution but a workaround. I'd suggest to report a bug so this issue is really fixed. Or is there any HW combination which always results in broken screen detection? Maybe then YaST could print some hints at the beginning in such case. You can select the installer screen resolution using the F3 key in the boot menu. If you manually select the correct resolution then it should work. Or is the correct resolution missing in the list? IMHO the current layout is good, you can always continue by pressing the button in the right bottom corner. If we moved the buttons to the center then you would need to carefully read the labels to void clicking a wrong button. And users would press a wrong button more often anyway. From the usability POV it would be worse for all users and only helped a bit in few specific cases. Sorry, I'd keep the current layout unchanged. BTW you can still press Alt+N as a keyboard shortcut for the [Next] button. But obviously this depends on the selected language and some dialogs might use a different key. The ncurses UI uses F-keys for the navigation (F8=Back, F9=Abort/Cancel, F10=Next/OK), maybe implementing also these keys in Qt UI would help. But the problem is that the users would need to know that or at least should be able to easily find out these shortcuts. Ladislav -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Fraser_Bell -
Josef Reidinger -
Ladislav Slezak