On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:20:38 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:

Lukas Ocilka wrote:

...

On 11.8.2014 17:13, Steffen Winterfeldt wrote:

...

Hi,

there's quite some bugs in yast2-maintainers for modules without official maintainer.

Instead of asking around, trying the previous maintainer, or the unlucky last patch submitter I suggest to prepend [MODULE_NAME] to the subject and leave the bug in yast2-maintainers. And everyone looking for something to do and/or feeling responsible in this area can pick it up and assign to him/herself.

What do you think?

I'm looking at it from a bit different point of view, but your suggested solution would work.

In the old times, we had quite some developers and everyone had several modules to maintain. These people are away now and we will most probably not have the same number of developers anymore. In the old times, bugs have waited for these developers to come back from vacation, hospital, etc.

How I'd like to see it in the future, is a bit more agile way: Almost anyone can fix almost any code, especially if the API is clean, variables have understandable names, methods are self-explanatory, etc. This is the way we should go. And using code reviews helps that a lot. Obviously, we need experts for this and that as nobody can understand everything, but well-defined API hides the complexity.

We will be losing people and also getting new. This model of giving all your modules to someone else when leaving can't work, but the new model already works well in some areas. That's also one of the reasons why we have to refactor and cleanup the code a bit everytime we touch it.

Steffen, your proposal IMO works even for what I think that we should be targeting. These vertical silos have to be replaced with horizontal approach. It's vitally important for Yast to survive in the 21st century.

Is there a way of getting more of the community involved in YaST? We have some very knowledgeable people, but YaST tends to stay "off the radar" for many. If you don't mind, I'll change your last sentence - it's vitally important for openSUSE that Yast survives.

Well, anyone from community can run yast-maintainers query ( http://bit.ly/1BaCYcl ). It is maybe more our question for community what obstacles they see in yast development. We can only guess and we try to open it as much as we can ( ycp -> ruby, public IRC, github with pull requests, pull request reminder, etc. ). So it would be nice if such knowledgeable people tell us what they see as obstacle to more involvment in yast development. Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:09:11 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:

Josef Reidinger wrote:

...

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:20:38 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:

...

Is there a way of getting more of the community involved in YaST? We have some very knowledgeable people, but YaST tends to stay "off the radar" for many. If you don't mind, I'll change your last sentence - it's vitally important for openSUSE that Yast survives.

Well, anyone from community can run yast-maintainers query ( http://bit.ly/1BaCYcl ). It is maybe more our question for community what obstacles they see in yast development. We can only guess and we try to open it as much as we can ( ycp -> ruby, public IRC, github with pull requests, pull request reminder, etc. ). So it would be nice if such knowledgeable people tell us what they see as obstacle to more involvment in yast development.

What I meant was - it needs a bit of advertising to get the community involved. YaST has always been a SUSE/openSUSE internal thing, it's probably not something most people consider working on or contributing to.

Can you be more specific advertising where? on conferences? in press? or maybe better web page about YaST itself? Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/12/2014 08:36 AM, Josef Reidinger wrote:

On Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:20:38 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:

...

Lukas Ocilka wrote:

...

On 11.8.2014 17:13, Steffen Winterfeldt wrote:

...

Hi,

there's quite some bugs in yast2-maintainers for modules without official maintainer.

Instead of asking around, trying the previous maintainer, or the unlucky last patch submitter I suggest to prepend [MODULE_NAME] to the subject and leave the bug in yast2-maintainers. And everyone looking for something to do and/or feeling responsible in this area can pick it up and assign to him/herself.

What do you think? I'm looking at it from a bit different point of view, but your suggested solution would work.

In the old times, we had quite some developers and everyone had several modules to maintain. These people are away now and we will most probably not have the same number of developers anymore. In the old times, bugs have waited for these developers to come back from vacation, hospital, etc.

How I'd like to see it in the future, is a bit more agile way: Almost anyone can fix almost any code, especially if the API is clean, variables have understandable names, methods are self-explanatory, etc. This is the way we should go. And using code reviews helps that a lot. Obviously, we need experts for this and that as nobody can understand everything, but well-defined API hides the complexity.

We will be losing people and also getting new. This model of giving all your modules to someone else when leaving can't work, but the new model already works well in some areas. That's also one of the reasons why we have to refactor and cleanup the code a bit everytime we touch it.

Steffen, your proposal IMO works even for what I think that we should be targeting. These vertical silos have to be replaced with horizontal approach. It's vitally important for Yast to survive in the 21st century. Is there a way of getting more of the community involved in YaST? We have some very knowledgeable people, but YaST tends to stay "off the radar" for many. If you don't mind, I'll change your last sentence - it's vitally important for openSUSE that Yast survives.

Well, anyone from community can run yast-maintainers query ( http://bit.ly/1BaCYcl ). It is maybe more our question for community what obstacles they see in yast development. We can only guess and we try to open it as much as we can ( ycp -> ruby, public IRC, github with pull requests, pull request reminder, etc. ). So it would be nice if such knowledgeable people tell us what they see as obstacle to more involvment in yast development.

I have several notes about it based on my own experience (mainly lack of visibility of the documentation). I'll find some time to improve the wiki and write some kind of report after I'm done with some other stuff (let's say 2 weeks). But lowering the barrier is one thing and attracting people is another. My experience will only be useful in the first subject but not so much in the other one, since I was already committed to work on Yast. -- Ancor González Sosa openSUSE Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 05:31:18PM +0200, Lukas Ocilka wrote:

On 11.8.2014 17:13, Steffen Winterfeldt wrote:

...

Hi,

there's quite some bugs in yast2-maintainers for modules without official maintainer.

Instead of asking around, trying the previous maintainer, or the unlucky last patch submitter I suggest to prepend [MODULE_NAME] to the subject and leave the bug in yast2-maintainers. And everyone looking for something to do and/or feeling responsible in this area can pick it up and assign to him/herself.

What do you think?

I'm looking at it from a bit different point of view, but your suggested solution would work.

Is just adding the module-name also OK for P1, L3 and ship-stoppers and alike? Regards, Arvin -- Arvin Schnell, <aschnell@suse.de> Senior Software Engineer, Research & Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: yast-devel+owner@opensuse.org