Thanks Ingo, especially for the promptness of your reply. Your suggestion worked, but unfortunately I always find that a solution with Linux just leads me to the next problem. rpm -q says that it is installed - but where? From the root I do a find on *xemacs and get a little, a find on emacs* gave me 23 hits, a repeat of find on emacs* gave me 67 hits but in no way have I found any executable files. I noticed a lot of emacs/gnome stuff. I am only using kde: is this a problem? Thanks for any help. Regards, Colin PS: I was chastised for posting this question under 'programming' (I thought that emacs was a developer's tool) and told I should post here. On Wednesday 09 March 2005 01:07, Ingo Strauch wrote:

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 00:58:33 +1100

Colin Carter wrote:

...

After completing the task I now get the following responses to quiery and install:

# rpm -q xemacs-info-21.4.15-43.x86_64.rpm package xemacs-info-21.4.15-43.x86_64.rpm is not installed

The _package_ name is xemacs-info-21.4.15-43. It does _not_ include the architecture (x86_64) or the suffix rpm.

Try

rpm -q xemacs-info-21.4.15-43

...

# rpm -i xemacs-info-21.4.15-43.x86_64.rpm package xemacs-info-21.4.15-43.x86_64.rpm is already installed

Here you are not dealing with the _package_ name but the name of the _rpm_. That's the difference and the cause for confusion.

Hope that helps, Ingo

P.S.: it's basically the wrong mailinglist for such a question, this one is dedicated to the X graphical system. Can't say which list would be better suited unfortunately. In fact after the site relaunch SuSE -> Novell I can't find any mailinglist information at all...

Hi, Special thanks to Ingo Strauch and Johnathan Gurley for suggestions. I tried both rpm -ql xemacs-info-21.4.15-43 and rpm -qil *xemacs and both provoke the response: package ... is not installed Related question: xemacs is an 'upmarket' version of emacs; does this mean that I should have installed emacs and then xemacs, or can I install xemacs only? I tried to install xemacs first and had problems, so I thought "Oh well, good old emacs will do" and so I tried to install it. Still no luck. I am using Developer Studio at work on 'that' OS but on Linux I am stuck with kwrite - a bit slow for development. I really need emacs and want LaTex. Thanks for your suggestions fellows; much appreciated. Regards, Colin PS: I was told that I should "just hit reply"; are my responses okay? In his letter, ezmlm didn't explain how to 'reply' to a posting. On Wednesday 09 March 2005 07:23, Ingo Strauch wrote:

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 06:53:01 +1100

Colin Carter wrote:

...

Your suggestion worked, but unfortunately I always find that a solution with Linux just leads me to the next problem. rpm -q says that it is installed - but where?

rpm -ql xemacs-info-21.4.15-43

gives a list of all files belonging to this package.

...

From the root I do a find on *xemacs and get a little, a find on emacs* gave me 23 hits, a repeat of find on emacs* gave me 67 hits but in no way have I found any executable files.

Did you really use 'find'? If that's the case you might want to also try 'locate'. This of course only works when the files in question were already installed when the locate-database was last updated.

...

I noticed a lot of emacs/gnome stuff. I am only using kde: is this a problem?

Nope.

...

PS: I was chastised for posting this question under 'programming' (I thought that emacs was a developer's tool) and told I should post here.

I find it a bit strange that they suggested to post an RPM/emacs related question to the xfree mailinglist ;-) Just looking at the list names at http://lists.suse.com/archive/ it seems to me that kind of question would be best suited in linux-e. Not too strong an opinion, though.

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:58:37 +1100 Colin Carter wrote:

Hi, Special thanks to Ingo Strauch and Johnathan Gurley for suggestions. I tried both rpm -ql xemacs-info-21.4.15-43 and rpm -qil *xemacs and both provoke the response: package ... is not installed

That's quite strange. On my system both rpm -ql xemacs rpm -ql xemacs-21.4.15-59.4 give the list of files belonging to the "xemacs" package. What do you get, wen you execute rpm -qa | grep xemacs

Related question: xemacs is an 'upmarket' version of emacs; does this mean that I should have installed emacs and then xemacs, or can I install xemacs only?

They are independent of each other, you can install one without the other.

PS: I was told that I should "just hit reply"; are my responses okay? In his letter, ezmlm didn't explain how to 'reply' to a posting.

To me your responses are quite ok. One could only argue about putting the entire reply above the full quote of the previous mail. That's usually not too well received ;-) Cheers, Ingo -- "What're quantum mechanics?" "I don't know. People who repair quantums I suppose." --Rincewind, Terry Pratchett "Eric"

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 10:37:40 +1100 Colin Carter wrote:

...

That's quite strange. On my system both

rpm -ql xemacs rpm -ql xemacs-21.4.15-59.4

give the list of files belonging to the "xemacs" package.

What do you get, wen you execute

rpm -qa | grep xemacs

Ingo, I got:

xemacs-info-21.4.15-43 xemacs-packages-20040202-40 xemacs-packages-el-20040202-40 xemacs-packages-info-20040202-40

(I don't think that I want/need the -el- stuff; just part of my messy trials.)

Have I installed it under some variation of the name?

If you say that rpm -ql xemacs-info gives you a "package not installed" message I fear I'm out of ideas... One thing though: the actual "xemacs" package is not installed. These are more like helper packages. Cheers, Ingo -- Ingo Strauch ---- Registered Linux User #227900 (http://counter.li.org/) http://www.the-one-brack.org/

Sort of solved - see bottom. On Thursday 10 March 2005 23:32, Geoffrey wrote:

Ingo Strauch wrote:

...

If you say that

rpm -ql xemacs-info

gives you a "package not installed" message I fear I'm out of ideas...

One thing though: the actual "xemacs" package is not installed. These are more like helper packages.

Just a quick suggestion to verify what emacs packages might be installed, try the following:

rpm -qa|grep emacs

-- Until later, Geoffrey

Hi fellas, thanks to Ingo, Johnathan, Charly and Geoffrey for getting involved in my problem. I was going crazy here ... there seem to be so many conflicts and/or miss-leading messages. In .../x86_64 there exists the following files: emacs-21.3-166.x86_64.rpm emacs-auctex-11.14-56.x86_64.rpm emacs-el-21.3-166.x86_64.rpm emacs-info-21.3-166.x86_64.rpm emacs-nox-21.3-166.x86_64.rpm emacs-x11-21.3-166.x86_64.rpm I tried to install the last rpm and I get the message "emacs is needed by emacs-x11-21.3-166" Which file does this refer to? I wish the messages were more precise. So I tried to install the first file and it says "emacs_program is needed" I cannot see that either! And there were those conflicting is/is not installed messages. Thanks to one of your suggestions I managed to find libcanna. (But once again the jargon was confusing: eg how was I supposed to know that libRKC was inside?) After that xemacs and Tex installed straight up and checked out fine. (Still can't install emacs nor emacs-x11, but xemacs should do.) So, I don't have a problem any more. But the worry is that if I need to reformat my disk (did this many times under that other O.S.) I will have a problem finding my way through again. I find it very difficult to cope with conflicting messages like rmp -i saying "already installed" and rpm -q saying "not installed". And messages which give miss-leading clues like requiring a package that is not there (eg emacs-package) and trivia like a newbie is supposed to know that one should drop off the .x86_64 under certain circumstances but not others (and why not drop the version?) Anyway, this last paragraph is meant to express how frustrating I have found the SuSE Linux package to be, and, consequently, how much I appreciate your feed back. I owe you one. Sincere regards, Colin

Ingo Strauch wrote:

You should probably try to use higher-level tools like Yast, kpackage (GUI) or apt4rpm (text). They are capable of resolving dependencies for you.

I would agree, and your best bet with SuSE is going to be Yast. -- Until later, Geoffrey

Colin Carter wrote:

Thanks Ingo and Geoffrey. I cannot understand Yast - in particular: It seemed to do well on initial installation, but now I can't see how to 'interpret' the list of installed/not installed I can't 'point' it to a new package. and when I click install it whirs away and nothing seems to happen. I will try the apt route in future. Easier to learn/control (I hope), and I prefer keyboard to mouse any day (except for graphics).

Yast will work on a console as well. It doesn't make sense to use a non-standard app (apt) to update your packages on Suse. It won't keep your rpm database properly updated. It's really quite simple to use Yast. Simply type 'emacs' into the search window and you'll find what is installable. Select what you want and Yast will warn you about additional software necessary to meet dependencies. -- Until later, Geoffrey

On Friday 11 March 2005 18:38, Ingo Strauch wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:08:56 -0500

Geoffrey wrote:

...

Yast will work on a console as well. It doesn't make sense to use a non-standard app (apt) to update your packages on Suse. It won't keep your rpm database properly updated.

Now you got me curious. Apt will use the same RPM files as Yast and underneath will use the same rpm executable to install them. How should that lead to differences or even a not properly updated rpm database? Or did I miss something?

But I agree that yast shouldn't be too difficult either. The trick as you said is simply typing a name to the search field and see what comes up.

Cheers, Ingo Thanks for the opinions. I am gaining a lot from you guys.

I switched off and logged in as root and run up Yast as you suggested. I put emacs (and again with xemacs) into the search box as suggested. Yast displayed, in RHS window, all modules installed, with a tick in each check box. So, as a test, I unticked the -el- module and clicked "Accept". Took some time, but it eventually un-installed this module. Then I repeated the search and got a list of the installed modules, with check boxes ticked; but no sign of any module ( eg -el- ) available for installation. I did fiddle with the 'filter' but couldn't get Yast to display any 'available' software, just the software already installed. This is why I turned to rpm in the first place. Am I supposed to do something special to get such a list displayed? From Konqueror I have triggered a Yast installation; Yast started up, whirred a bit, but it never installed anything. I tried this with/without DVD in drive.

On Friday 11 March 2005 20:19, Ingo Strauch wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 19:57:04 +1100

Colin Carter wrote:

...

I switched off and logged in as root and run up Yast as you suggested. I put emacs (and again with xemacs) into the search box as suggested. Yast displayed, in RHS window, all modules installed, with a tick in each check box. So, as a test, I unticked the -el- module and clicked "Accept". Took some time, but it eventually un-installed this module. Then I repeated the search and got a list of the installed modules, with check boxes ticked; but no sign of any module ( eg -el- ) available for installation.

This looks to me that Yast doesn't know about where to find new packages to install. There should be a menu item "Installation Source" or something. You should check that at least one source is configured.

Yes, and I just double checked (again) that the source was "On" by opening "Change Installation Source". It is pointing to dir:///media/dvdrecorder and I used Konqueror to view the disk to check that it was readable. (Drive light came on.) SuSE set this field automatically. Why are there so many slashes? ie why ///media and not just /media I entered "neverball" (which is on the DVD under x86_64) into the search, but Yast returned not found. In fact the drive light didn't come on.

...

I did fiddle with the 'filter' but couldn't get Yast to display any 'available' software, just the software already installed. This is why I turned to rpm in the first place.

BTW, where did you get the RPMs from you used in previous mails?

I just lifted them from the .x86_64 directory. Okay?

...

Am I supposed to do something special to get such a list displayed? From Konqueror I have triggered a Yast installation; Yast started up, whirred a bit, but it never installed anything.

I tried this with/without DVD in drive.

To me it looks like you need to add a valid installation source. But it's strange that the DVD isn't in there/doesn't work automatically.

Cheers, Ingo

Regards, Colin

On Friday 11 March 2005 21:26, Ingo Strauch wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:09:42 +1100

Colin Carter wrote:

...

...

This looks to me that Yast doesn't know about where to find new packages to install. There should be a menu item "Installation Source" or something. You should check that at least one source is configured.

Yes, and I just double checked (again) that the source was "On" by opening "Change Installation Source". It is pointing to dir:///media/dvdrecorder and I used Konqueror to view the disk to check that it was readable. (Drive light came on.) SuSE set this field automatically. Why are there so many slashes? ie why ///media and not just /media

I think this has to do with the fact that also URLs can be used like "ftp://ftp.suse.com/...", so here you have "dir" as the protocol, the usual "://" and then the location, which is /media/dvdrecorder. Thus three slashes.

...

I entered "neverball" (which is on the DVD under x86_64) into the search, but Yast returned not found. In fact the drive light didn't come on.

I did a search in the SuSE support database at http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/index.html

The only thing I found is this

http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2003/03/ubrueck_yast-installquelle.html

Not sure if that helps.

Good suggestion. When I started out, it was with SuSE 9.0, and it gave me three months of grief (poor support from the SuSE contracted support) until an actual SuSE engineer, in one line, put things right: I had to emulate a SCSI drive. The above site refers to something similar, but SuSE 9.1 doesn't have this problem, and I now have both a CDRW and DVDRW and I checked that both are correctly set up as per your reference.

...

...

BTW, where did you get the RPMs from you used in previous mails?

I just lifted them from the .x86_64 directory. Okay?

Ah, fine ;-)

Something that popped into my mind just now: there is a command line tool named 'pin' which IIRC can be used to search for packages on you installation media. Not sure what it is capable of but I think you can for example search for the package that contains a given file.

Yes, one of the early responses suggested pin. It was very useful and helped me to make small steps forward.

Cheers,

Cheers ? (that's a very ENGLISH thing to say!)

Ingo

Since Yast is not co-operating I think I will have to use rpm, and look at apt. See ya, (That's 'strine) Colin

Colin Carter wrote:

Yes, and I just double checked (again) that the source was "On" by opening "Change Installation Source". It is pointing to dir:///media/dvdrecorder and I used Konqueror to view the disk to check that it was readable. (Drive light came on.) SuSE set this field automatically. Why are there so many slashes? ie why ///media and not just /media

I entered "neverball" (which is on the DVD under x86_64) into the search, but Yast returned not found. In fact the drive light didn't come on.

It sounds to me like your rpm database is messed up. I just typed 'never' in my search box and neverball came up. You don't need the disk in the drive to see this. You only need the disk in there if you're actually going to install something. Change the Filter to 'Package Groups,' what do you see then? -- Until later, Geoffrey

Colin Carter wrote:

Thanks for the opinions. I am gaining a lot from you guys.

I switched off and logged in as root and run up Yast as you suggested. I put emacs (and again with xemacs) into the search box as suggested. Yast displayed, in RHS window, all modules installed, with a tick in each check box. So, as a test, I unticked the -el- module and clicked "Accept". Took some time, but it eventually un-installed this module. Then I repeated the search and got a list of the installed modules, with check boxes ticked; but no sign of any module ( eg -el- ) available for installation. I did fiddle with the 'filter' but couldn't get Yast to display any 'available' software, just the software already installed. This is why I turned to rpm in the first place. Am I supposed to do something special to get such a list displayed?

I am surprised by this. Let's make sure we're doing the same thing. I pulled up yast and selected install software. You don't need the cd/dvd in the drive by the way. I typed 'emacs' in the search window. I have 'Search in: Name, Summary' checked. Search Mode is 'Contains.' When I hit search I get a list of files that fills the window and then some. Some are checked indicating the are installed most are not, since I don't use emacs. Check to be sure you have the right filter settings. Final suggestion is, check all items in the 'Search in' box, but that shouldn't be necessary. -- Until later, Geoffrey

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:55:13 -0500 Geoffrey wrote:

Ingo Strauch wrote:

...

Now you got me curious. Apt will use the same RPM files as Yast and underneath will use the same rpm executable to install them. How should that lead to differences or even a not properly updated rpm database? Or did I miss something?

It could be that I'm learning something here. It's my understanding that apt is .deb based and does not properly deal with the rpm database. Is this wrong? Debian does not have an rpm database, and apt is a Debian tool.

Yes, apt is basically a Debian tool but even there it is IIRC just a frontend to dpkg that underneath deals with the .deb file. So apt4rpm is the same frontend with a different backend, rpm in that case which installs the .rpm files. Cheers, Ingo -- Ingo Strauch ---- Registered Linux User #227900 (http://counter.li.org/) http://www.the-one-brack.org/

On Saturday 12 March 2005 00:04, Ingo Strauch wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 07:55:13 -0500 Geoffrey wrote:

...

Ingo Strauch wrote:

Yes, apt is basically a Debian tool but even there it is IIRC just a frontend to dpkg that underneath deals with the .deb file. So apt4rpm is the same frontend with a different backend, rpm in that case which installs the .rpm files.

Thanks for the info chaps. Colin

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Geoffrey [03-11-05 07:57]:

...

It could be that I'm learning something here. It's my understanding that apt is .deb based and does not properly deal with the rpm database. Is this wrong? Debian does not have an rpm database, and apt is a Debian tool.

apt *is* and debian rpm tool, apt4rpm is the suse version and uses the same procedures as yast, rpm.

The *difference* in utilizing apt (read apt4rpm) vs. yast is that apt takes the name of a packages and installs it *and* it's dependencies where yast will tell you that *you* need to install *dependencies* before you can install the package.

Actually, Yast will show you the necessary packages and ask you if you want to install them. There is a difference.

I drug my heels for several years before moving from yast to apt and cannot understand why. Apt makes things much easier, but there exist hangups for apt too and they are minor.

I've found Yast to be superior to any other software installation method. The closest thing to it is Mandrakes tool. The search mechanism in both is beyond compare. I don't know that apt has a similar tool. Red Hat sucks as it has nothing similar. -- Until later, Geoffrey