[opensuse-wiki] [FPR] Home page: 2nd stage of proposals
Hi, the latest FPR (Front page redesign ;-)) ) thread is starting to get complex, so with new proposals (stage 2), I am starting a new thread. Hope it's OK for you - this way it will definitely be easier for me to assign your comments to the correct proposal(s). For this very reason, I would like to separate threads concerning the Home page and the Splash screen, too. This is about the homepage. Enough "disclaiming" ;), here are two new proposals: 1. http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/home.html 2. http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/home_jdd.html The old (aka yesterday's) proposal is now located at http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/stage_1/home.html Comments: on 1.) - changed the width of the columns - the left column is less wide now (requested by jdd - added/changed the links in "Getting openSUSE" (requested by houghi) - replaced "Other languages (box)" with "Article of the Month" (requested by jdd, darix and houghi) - added the [[openSUSE:Browse]] link to the left nav (called it "Sitemap", not sure if this is fortunate) - re-arranged the links in the topnav (requested by houghi) and added padding to the left (requested by peter) on 2.) - contains all the changes of 1.) plus jdd's proposal not to split the content related navigation between top and left nav: * moved the "Participation" links from top nav to left nav. Therefore had to create another section (Participate), otherwise the "openSUSE" link list would be too long * moved the "Personal" links into the top nav * moved the page headline and content 1.2em up ;-)) Things I did not implement, because ... - removing the Wiki Toolbox from the left nav: This was implemented when we started openSUSE way back last year. The toolbox only showed up when a user was logged in. We changed it to be visible all the time on public demand - moving interwiki links to some less prominent place I am against it because of two reasons: * when reading an article on the English openSUSE web, a user can easily see wether this article is available in his/her language or not. So a user can quickly switch the language on a certain article without having to search/scroll for the language links * almost the same goes for translators/would be translators. With the current position it's easier to see whether an article needs to be translated or not What's more - with the current labeling ("In other languages") it is very clear which purpose this set of links serves, so I do not see that it confuses the user (same goes for the Wiki toolbox) - removed the green headline boxes in the center content I really liked them (copied from wikipedia), IMHO they add a bit of eye candy to the page. Apart from that, they are only used as headlines of special topics rather than headlines of linklists. - green border around left menu Technically not possible with the current layout. We would have to give up the end-to-end green bar (as it is now on en.opensuse.org). Apart from that, it does not look good -IMHO. - changed font sizes Currently all font related styles are wikipedia (monobook) default. I'd like to stick with them. If you think different, let me know. A note on the content: I just took what I thought was reasonable. I f you would like to see other topics, different wording, etc., tell me. BTW: (A) new proposal(s) for the splash screen will follow, stay tuned ;) -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.novell.com/ "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:00:51PM +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
Hi,
the latest FPR (Front page redesign ;-)) ) thread is starting to get complex, so with new proposals (stage 2), I am starting a new thread. Hope it's OK for you - this way it will definitely be easier for me to assign your comments to the correct proposal(s). For this very reason, I would like to separate threads concerning the Home page and the Splash screen, too.
This is about the homepage.
Enough "disclaiming" ;), here are two new proposals:
1. http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/home.html 2. http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/home_jdd.html
The old (aka yesterday's) proposal is now located at http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/stage_1/home.html
Comments:
In general I like 2 a bit better, especially the top. I still think the right boxes are a bit too large compared to the amount of information they hold. Also I would like to see a `bugreport` on each and every page. I will see if I can get a page together that would look like I would prefere it. Should be ready somewhere later today or tonight. -- But I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:55:01PM +0200, houghi wrote:
I will see if I can get a page together that would look like I would prefere it. Should be ready somewhere later today or tonight.
Damn, That is hard to do. I am used to work solely with css and looking at tables is no fun. Any change of making a solely css page without the tables mess in it? If yes, I am willing to gie it a try. If not, I don't even start. -- But I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 05:52:54PM +0200, houghi wrote:
On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:55:01PM +0200, houghi wrote:
I will see if I can get a page together that would look like I would prefere it. Should be ready somewhere later today or tonight.
Damn, That is hard to do. I am used to work solely with css and looking at tables is no fun. Any change of making a solely css page without the tables mess in it? If yes, I am willing to gie it a try. If not, I don't even start.
Made two small changes. 1) Added a link to Bug report 2) Made the left <h3> the same as the center. I would also perhas place the 'Google code of summer' in the center block. -- But I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
houghi a écrit :
2) Made the left <h3> the same as the center.
this may be an other thread. CSS. the mediawiki way is to have "=" for page title (h1?), "==" and following for sections in a page. anyway, the aspect of any from "=" to "====" is not sufficiently different jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:52, houghi wrote: Hi,
On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 04:55:01PM +0200, houghi wrote:
Damn, That is hard to do. I am used to work solely with css and looking at tables is no fun. Any change of making a solely css page without the tables mess in it?
please don't. Using CSS to place things in the content area will eventually break the whole page in case the general wiki template changes (e.g. when updating to a new MediaWiki version). I would like to ensure that we never need to touch single pages when we change the template and the corresponding CSS. Apart from that, I tried to avoid tables as much as possible. It is just _one_ table with the simplest layout that is possible: one row, two columns, so it's just KISS. -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 10:10:44AM +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
please don't. Using CSS to place things in the content area will eventually break the whole page in case the general wiki template changes (e.g. when updating to a new MediaWiki version).
Ok, I should complain to MediaWiki not to use tables. :-/
I would like to ensure that we never need to touch single pages when we change the template and the corresponding CSS.
Indeed. That would be possible if using only CSS and no tables at all. However that is a MediaWiki issue and not an openSUSE issue. (Even /. uses css nowadays. :-)
Apart from that, I tried to avoid tables as much as possible. It is just _one_ table with the simplest layout that is possible: one row, two columns, so it's just KISS.
Not having looked at tabled at all for so long, it isn't exactly KISS to me. ;-) For thos who don't get it, I hate tables, especially if they are used to place content on a website. ;-) -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 27 July 2006 10:28, houghi wrote: Hi,
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 10:10:44AM +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
please don't. Using CSS to place things in the content area will eventually break the whole page in case the general wiki template changes (e.g. when updating to a new MediaWiki version).
Ok, I should complain to MediaWiki not to use tables. :-/
I would like to ensure that we never need to touch single pages when we change the template and the corresponding CSS.
Indeed. That would be possible if using only CSS and no tables at all. However that is a MediaWiki issue and not an openSUSE issue. (Even /. uses css nowadays. :-)
you got me wrong ;-). The MediaWiki templates do not use tables - it's all css. To me, an openSUSE web page consists of two parts: the one that is generated from the template and the one that a user enters (the content part). Both parts should be completely independent from each other. So no matter how the template part changes, the content part must always remain unchanged. The table I have used to position the two columns is within the content part. My fear is that if we use CSS to position the columns, the content layout will no longer be independent from then template layout. But maybe I am wrong here.
Apart from that, I tried to avoid tables as much as possible. It is just _one_ table with the simplest layout that is possible: one row, two columns, so it's just KISS.
Not having looked at tabled at all for so long, it isn't exactly KISS to me. ;-)
Well, this is the table code I used: <table> <tr> <td></td> <td></td> </tr> </table> not too complicated, I think ;-)).
For thos who don't get it, I hate tables, especially if they are used to place content on a website. ;-)
Using a table (not nested tables, of course) is sometimes much easier. -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 11:06:22AM +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
The table I have used to position the two columns is within the content part. My fear is that if we use CSS to position the columns, the content layout will no longer be independent from then template layout. But maybe I am wrong here.
That should not be the case. http://www.csszengarden.com/ should be a reference that layout is perfectly possible using only css. However I am not into details with MediaWiki, so it could be that there are some strange things that they do, or that extra hacking is needed when an update arrives. <snip>
Using a table (not nested tables, of course) is sometimes much easier.
It is easier when you want to stick to one design for always. Changing later is easier when done without tables. Editing the website in the end is, in my experience, easier with css. -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
houghi a écrit :
It is easier when you want to stick to one design for always. Changing later is easier when done without tables.
tables is nice for single pages, not for general layout, of course jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer a écrit :
The table I have used to position the two columns is within the content part. My fear is that if we use CSS to position the columns, the content layout will no longer be independent from then template layout. But maybe I am wrong here.
I think the present (in use) layout uses css for rigth (news) columns. There is a with part in the central table, but it have not effect at all (changing it don't do anything) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
houghi a écrit :
For thos who don't get it, I hate tables, especially if they are used to place content on a website. ;-)
I don't see why. I like tables :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On 2006-07-27 12:56:52 +0200, jdd wrote:
I don't see why. I like tables :-)
*bans jdd from doing layout* :p tables are so last century. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Marcus Rueckert a écrit :
On 2006-07-27 12:56:52 +0200, jdd wrote:
I don't see why. I like tables :-)
*bans jdd from doing layout* :p
tables are so last century.
darix
tables are fast but don't forget we are speaking of single page layout, here, not general site one (of course, there css are nice - I use server side include for that) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On 2006-07-27 13:06:48 +0200, jdd wrote:
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:06:48 +0200 From: jdd <jdd@dodin.org> Subject: Re: [opensuse-wiki] [FPR] Home page: 2nd stage of proposals To: opensuse-wiki@opensuse.org
Marcus Rueckert a écrit :
On 2006-07-27 12:56:52 +0200, jdd wrote:
I don't see why. I like tables :-)
*bans jdd from doing layout* :p
tables are so last century.
darix
tables are fast
they are not. they are bloated. they are inflexible.
but don't forget we are speaking of single page layout, here, not general site one (of course, there css are nice - I use server side include for that)
i dont see how ssi comes into play but anyway. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 27 July 2006 13:14, Marcus Rueckert wrote: Hi,
On 2006-07-27 13:06:48 +0200, jdd wrote:
Marcus Rueckert a écrit :
On 2006-07-27 12:56:52 +0200, jdd wrote:
I don't see why. I like tables :-)
*bans jdd from doing layout* :p
tables are so last century.
darix
tables are fast
they are not. they are bloated. they are inflexible.
please - we should not start another religious war here, unless the GNOME vs KDE and emacs vs vi wars are fought out ;-)). BTW: We are talking about a _single_ table with a _single_ row on a _single_ page. Someone send me a version with css (without changing anything within the template area) and guarantee me that it will not get broken with the next template updates and I will implement it. -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:06:48PM +0200, jdd wrote:
but don't forget we are speaking of single page layout, here, not general site one (of course, there css are nice - I use server side include for that)
If you want a single page layout, just use Microsoft© Word©. ;-) I am talking about consitency throughout the openSUSE.org domain, including the wiki and e.g. also the mailinglist pages. It should all be done by the same css file with the same layout idea behind it. -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 27 July 2006 13:24, houghi wrote: Hi,
I am talking about consitency throughout the openSUSE.org domain, including the wiki and e.g. also the mailinglist pages. It should all be done by the same css file with the same layout idea behind it.
yup. AFAIK the new mailinglist server will go online soon (henne will know when). And yes, it has got the openSUSE design. I finished the skin for it a few days ago. -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
houghi a écrit :
I am talking about consitency throughout the openSUSE.org domain, including the wiki and e.g. also the mailinglist pages. It should all be done by the same css file with the same layout idea behind it.
yes. but the only table we are speaking about is the front page table and is only used for the central part and the right news column one see only on the front page. and, for example, translating from english to french gives often longer sentences that don't fit well is the small prensent width, so it may be better to have a slightly larger news column in french than in englis. It's not (easily) possible with css, but very easy with tables. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:43:15PM +0200, jdd wrote:
yes. but the only table we are speaking about is the front page table and is only used for the central part and the right news column one see only on the front page.
That is for now and it is not just one page, it is one page for each language for now. The moment you want to change the frontpage, you need to change each language. If future pages want to use a similar layout, you need to change those as well.
and, for example, translating from english to french gives often longer sentences that don't fit well is the small prensent width, so it may be better to have a slightly larger news column in french than in englis. It's not (easily) possible with css, but very easy with tables.
That will break the consistency of the website, exactly the thing I want to avoid. Even then an inline css can(will?) overrule the pre-designed css file. -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, jdd wrote:
houghi a écrit :
For thos who don't get it, I hate tables, especially if they are used to place content on a website. ;-)
I don't see why. I like tables :-)
From a accessibility point of view, tables really suck a lot. Did you ever try to browse a page that used table-based design with a screen-reader (for blind or visually handicapped people)? Regards Christoph --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Christoph Thiel a écrit :
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, jdd wrote:
houghi a écrit :
For thos who don't get it, I hate tables, especially if they are used to place content on a website. ;-) I don't see why. I like tables :-)
From a accessibility point of view, tables really suck a lot. Did you ever try to browse a page that used table-based design with a screen-reader (for blind or visually handicapped people)?
w3m is perfect with my home page (www.dodin.net) this is much better than flash anims we can see all around. When I'm at my mothers home (she got a computer 6 year ago for her 80th anniversary), I can perfectly browse my web site and not at all openSUSE one :-( (phone modem, 56k) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 27 July 2006 13:12, jdd wrote: Hi,
When I'm at my mothers home (she got a computer 6 year ago for her 80th anniversary), I can perfectly browse my web site and not at all openSUSE one :-( (phone modem, 56k)
your page is probably cached and opensuse isn't. ;-)) Just kidding. -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer a écrit :
On Thursday 27 July 2006 13:12, jdd wrote:
Hi,
When I'm at my mothers home (she got a computer 6 year ago for her 80th anniversary), I can perfectly browse my web site and not at all openSUSE one :-( (phone modem, 56k)
your page is probably cached and opensuse isn't. ;-))
Just kidding.
the truth is that a wiki (at least mediawiki) is not good for fast browsing. but browsing the web nowaday with a 56k connexion is a real pain :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 16:55, houghi wrote: Hi,
In general I like 2 a bit better, especially the top. I still think the right boxes are a bit too large compared to the amount of information they hold.
ok, changed the ratio to 70:30 now.
Also I would like to see a `bugreport` on each and every page.
Yes - I forgot that. Added it to the "Participate" section in the left nav. http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/home_jdd.html -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer a écrit :
this is much better, however I don't see why Google of summer have a special treatment and I nearly missed completely the documentation column. It has nothing to do on the bottom right jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 27 July 2006 13:08, jdd wrote: Hi,
Frank Sundermeyer a écrit :
this is much better, however I don't see why Google of summer have a special treatment
I intended to have a separate box for special announcements. The Google Summer has got nothing to do with openSUSE, so I considered it special. ;)
and I nearly missed completely the documentation column. It has nothing to do on the bottom right
I thought the news more important than the "Getting help" link list. But these two boxes can be swapped of course, if everyone agrees. I do not see any other alternative. -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:40:54PM +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
I thought the news more important than the "Getting help" link list. But these two boxes can be swapped of course, if everyone agrees. I do not see any other alternative.
As the news is very infrequent at this moment, I would swap them. If news becoms so frequent, we can see what we can do about it then. I think the purpose of the main page is to get people as fast to the information on the wiki as possible. I think using an rss feed might be a better way to get news (and anouncements) across, incombination with the mailinglist. That however is a whole different subject. -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Hi there, On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
the latest FPR (Front page redesign ;-)) ) thread is starting to get complex, so with new proposals (stage 2), I am starting a new thread. Hope it's OK for you - this way it will definitely be easier for me to assign your comments to the correct proposal(s). For this very reason, I would like to separate threads concerning the Home page and the Splash screen, too.
This is about the homepage.
First of all, I really enjoyed the revised designs! But there is one thing, that I'd like to bring up for discussion: Do you guys actually like the icons? IMHO they should be a bit smaller. In addition to that I have the feeling that we aren't following a clear style when it comes to icons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are kind of mixing different icon sets (that use different color palettes) on the front page? Some of them tend to look KDE-like. Others don't. On the splash thingy: How about using a white background? Looking at http://www.wikipedia.org/, we could just use openSUSE as a heading + the geeko/openSUSE logo in the middle of the page and group our different languages around them. Having a search box with the drop-down menu to select a language on the bottom of the page might be nice to have as well. Regards Christoph --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 26 July 2006 17:42, Christoph Thiel wrote: Hi,
First of all, I really enjoyed the revised designs! But there is one thing, that I'd like to bring up for discussion: Do you guys actually like the icons? IMHO they should be a bit smaller. In addition to that I have the feeling that we aren't following a clear style when it comes to icons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are kind of mixing different icon sets (that use different color palettes) on the front page? Some of them tend to look KDE-like. Others don't.
well, I am no designer - somebody create a nice, consistent set of icons for openSUSE and everybody will be happy to use it ;-). I just took what I found at http://en.opensuse.org/Category:Icons and btw, I do not think they are too heterogeneous.
On the splash thingy: How about using a white background? Looking at http://www.wikipedia.org/, we could just use openSUSE as a heading + the geeko/openSUSE logo in the middle of the page and group our different languages around them.
Already did that as a very first draft for a splash screen and didn't liked it. Anyway, here it is: http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/splash_white.html
Having a search box with the drop-down menu to select a language on the bottom of the page might be nice to have as well.
Sounds interesting. -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
First of all, I really enjoyed the revised designs! But there is one thing, that I'd like to bring up for discussion: Do you guys actually like the icons? IMHO they should be a bit smaller. In addition to that I have the feeling that we aren't following a clear style when it comes to icons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are kind of mixing different icon sets (that use different color palettes) on the front page? Some of them tend to look KDE-like. Others don't.
well, I am no designer - somebody create a nice, consistent set of icons for openSUSE and everybody will be happy to use it ;-). I just took what I found at http://en.opensuse.org/Category:Icons and btw, I do not think they are too heterogeneous.
Yeah, we need designers... desperately ;)
On the splash thingy: How about using a white background? Looking at http://www.wikipedia.org/, we could just use openSUSE as a heading + the geeko/openSUSE logo in the middle of the page and group our different languages around them.
Already did that as a very first draft for a splash screen and didn't liked it. Anyway, here it is: http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/splash_white.html
That's nice! How about using a bigger openSUSE logo? And maybe adding some stats on each wiki (like "1000+ pages") below each language, using smaller letters of course. We could also try to place a direct link to download.openSUSE.org on the splash / portal page, to always highlight the latests version and get people to download openSUSE! But adding a seach box to it is much more important IMO :) Regards Christoph --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 11:28:04AM +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote:
Already did that as a very first draft for a splash screen and didn't liked it. Anyway, here it is: http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/splash_white.html
That's nice! How about using a bigger openSUSE logo? And maybe adding some stats on each wiki (like "1000+ pages") below each language, using smaller letters of course.
Indeed much better already, yet it still feels as if it does not belong to the rest of the website. The moment you choose a language, it suddenly looks and feels completely different. Something I also dislike about http://wikipedia.org My proposal http://houghi.org/suse/home_houghi2.html would take care of that. ;-)
We could also try to place a direct link to download.openSUSE.org on the splash / portal page, to always highlight the latests version and get people to download openSUSE!
Yes, yes, yes. See my earlier remarks of having a link to ONLY the latest stable version. And that needs to be done in one go.
But adding a seach box to it is much more important IMO :)
My proposal gives you the search in the place where you expect it to be. Having the search in different languages on each page, is that something worth thinking about (stating the page of the language as a default). e.g. when I am on a page that is not in Dutch, I could still search for Dutch content. OTOH, we are talking about just one page. Just put something there and let us get on with it. We will never find something everybody will like. -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, houghi wrote:
That's nice! How about using a bigger openSUSE logo? And maybe adding some stats on each wiki (like "1000+ pages") below each language, using smaller letters of course.
Indeed much better already, yet it still feels as if it does not belong to the rest of the website. The moment you choose a language, it suddenly looks and feels completely different. Something I also dislike about http://wikipedia.org
My proposal http://houghi.org/suse/home_houghi2.html would take care of that. ;-)
Frankly, I didn't really like that approach. The side and top bars feel misplaced somehow.
We could also try to place a direct link to download.openSUSE.org on the splash / portal page, to always highlight the latests version and get people to download openSUSE!
Yes, yes, yes. See my earlier remarks of having a link to ONLY the latest stable version. And that needs to be done in one go.
But adding a seach box to it is much more important IMO :)
My proposal gives you the search in the place where you expect it to be.
Having it on the front splash / portal my be advantageous, as people will notice it in any case.
Having the search in different languages on each page, is that something worth thinking about (stating the page of the language as a default). e.g. when I am on a page that is not in Dutch, I could still search for Dutch content.
Let's try not to distract our users :) Having the portal / splash page modeled around the wikipeda portal with it's multi-language search is probably the way to go. It seems to have worked out very well for wikipeda in the past :)
OTOH, we are talking about just one page. Just put something there and let us get on with it. We will never find something everybody will like.
The splash / portal is probably one of the most important pages! Disussing it in detail and reaching a consensus on this topic is very much reasonable :) Regards Christoph --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Christoph Thiel a écrit :
Yeah, we need designers... desperately ;)
Mandriva organises a challenge to find designers (sort of Google of summer), may be Novell could do so also? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Christoph Thiel a écrit :
We could also try to place a direct link
no :-(. A hub must stay a hub, to be used only of nothing else is available :-) jdd
-- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:02:41PM +0200, jdd wrote:
Christoph Thiel a écrit :
We could also try to place a direct link
no :-(. A hub must stay a hub, to be used only of nothing else is available :-)
I agree, however the opensuse.org/Download is not good. Who is willing (daring) to re-write it in such a way that people can start downloading the moment you get to that page? I am thinking, but can not come up with a good solution that does not ned re-writing at least three pages. I will start a new thread about that. -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
houghi a écrit :
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:02:41PM +0200, jdd wrote:
Christoph Thiel a écrit :
We could also try to place a direct link no :-(. A hub must stay a hub, to be used only of nothing else is available :-)
I agree, however the opensuse.org/Download is not good. Who is willing (daring) to re-write it in such a way that people can start downloading the moment you get to that page?
I am thinking, but can not come up with a good solution that does not ned re-writing at least three pages.
I will start a new thread about that. http://fr.opensuse.org/Téléchargement ?? jdd
-- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:44:21PM +0200, jdd wrote:
houghi a écrit :
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:02:41PM +0200, jdd wrote:
Christoph Thiel a écrit :
We could also try to place a direct link no :-(. A hub must stay a hub, to be used only of nothing else is available :-)
I agree, however the opensuse.org/Download is not good. Who is willing (daring) to re-write it in such a way that people can start downloading the moment you get to that page?
I am thinking, but can not come up with a good solution that does not ned re-writing at least three pages.
I will start a new thread about that. http://fr.opensuse.org/Téléchargement
I am only looking at the en page, sorry. I also thought that the idea was that there were certain pages that were only ment to be translated. This is again something I am against, because it breaks consistency. Why is that page not the same as the other languages? Either the en.* page is good and fr should follow, or the en.* is not good and fr.* should follow as soon as it changes. -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 27 July 2006 13:28, houghi wrote: Hi,
I agree, however the opensuse.org/Download is not good. Who is willing (daring) to re-write it in such a way that people can start downloading the moment you get to that page?
I am thinking, but can not come up with a good solution that does not ned re-writing at least three pages.
I will start a new thread about that.
keep in mind that we have got at least 3 (4) architectures (i386, x86_64, ppc (ia64)) 3 download protocols (http, ftp, torrent) 4 sets of media (CD, DVD, Live DVD, mini-Iso) 1 add-on CD That gives you numerous different choices (somebody with better mathematical skills can probably calculate how much) that you have to make _before_ starting the download. So maybe linking directly to http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version#Downloads_SUSE_Linux_10.1 is what you want? -- Tschau Frank -- Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.suse.de/ Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 01:50:55PM +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
So maybe linking directly to
http://en.opensuse.org/Released_Version#Downloads_SUSE_Linux_10.1
is what you want?
Yes, something like that, but then on a page by itself. That should be all there is on the page Download (with two or three extra links). As KISS as possible, because that will be how people who want to try it out will percieve how Linux and/or SUSE is. The above on a single page would enhance the feeling of easiness a lot. A way on how not to do it is the Debian site. ;-) -- houghi Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. -- Heinlein : Time Enough For Love --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer a écrit :
on 1.)
- changed the width of the columns - the left column is less wide now (requested by jdd
left column? don't remember having said so :-(
* moved the "Personal" links into the top nav
this I like a lot, very consistent and I agree with most proposition made by Houghi and thiel :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer wrote: <snip>
1. http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/home.html 2. http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/home_jdd.html
The old (aka yesterday's) proposal is now located at http://www.suse.de/~fs/opensuse/stage_1/home.html <snip>
The second is better. The Christoph has good eye. Icons are not the same size and the text beginning shifts left and right from paragraph to paragraph. I like more icon style that I see in "Participate in openSUSE" and "Article of the Month", but adjusting the sizes will help, until some designer come in. For the new users and first time visitors it might be nice to have Documentation shortcut links on the first screen. How? I'm trying to see right now. Two vertical columns make screen crowded, and the bottom is then unused. Maybe to make smaller all vital sections, more like oversized index, provide links to content that is below "horizon" and put actual content lower. That will be fast as the page is already loaded. The left navigation panel contains to many links. I like more the one in the first proposal. We really have to see how to manage that with simplicity. -- Regards, Rajko. Visit http://en.opensuse.org/MiniSUSE --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Christoph Thiel -
Frank Sundermeyer -
houghi -
jdd -
Marcus Rueckert -
Rajko M