[opensuse-wiki] AI3: QA - FlaggedRevs & Wiki Forum
Team, Rajko and I are assigned to find a solution for the FlaggedRevs/Wiki-Forum combination. I decided to post the progress of AI3 to the list as everyone interested can join the discussion at any time and help the assignees that way. Kim Groneman (Admin of the OSF) and Jon Rocker (Local Mod for the Wiki Forum and interested person in this AI3) explicitly is in CC: So what are we trying to achieve (as a background for Kim)? We'll use FlaggedRevs MediaWiki extension in combination with the Wiki Forum at forums.o.o as our QA flagship for the new (good) openSUSE wiki. FlaggedRevs provides the opportunity to flag certain articles as "Quality revision", i.e. as approved documentation while providing "Draft revisions" in parallel .. the "Quality revision" is the one shown the user by default (Drafts are accessible by clicking a link at the top right of the page). Utilizing this extension we'd like to achieve a reviewing/approval process for new articles (initially flagged as Draft) as well as major edits (flagged as draft until a wiki team member approves it and replaces the "Quality revision" with the new draft) and for that we'd like to use the Wiki forum. I hope this is clear so far? Please ask if it's not. We now have two scenarios on the table: 1. There is a brand new article created by an editor and this is flagged as draft initially. That draft revision should now have a corresponding discussion thread at the wiki forum where the community can review the article and provide feedback. Over time we hope that this process improves the article and provides the editor the opportunity to fine-tune. After some period of time, the draft gets approved (flagged as quality) and is presented as such to the reader. 2. We already have an article and some editor get started to write a new draft revision .. FlaggedRevs always automatically creates new Draft revisions of Quality articles whenever an edit occurs. This new draft is a potential candidate to replace the quality revision IF it passes the reviewing process at forums.o.o and is considered as a valid evolution by the wiki team. That said, our task now is to find out how we can "automagically" create threads in the wiki forum whenever FlaggedRevs detects a new draft (be it due to scenario 1 or 2). We doubt that simply encouraging editors to use the wiki forum as a proofreading platform wouldn't lead to expected results and thus we'd value an automatism. Jon Rocker (in CC:) came up with a rather good and simple idea yesterday on IRC and I thought about it. What about utilizing the forums RSS grabber "forumsadmin" for this? This bot does, afaik, RSS grabbing from various sources and post an abstract at "Tech News" category at the OSF. Rajko, is FlaggedRevs able to provide an RSS feed for draft revisions? Kim, is vBulletin (i.e. the RSS grabber you have) able to use this FlaggedRevs RSS feed and post corresponding threads at the Wiki forum? Some further questions IF that turns out to be possible: - May we put a wiki-template "A discussion thread has been created at <forums URL>" on top of the particular draft revision? Can this be done "automagically" and how? - How should we deal with duplicates? E.g. someone creates a brand new article, the reviewing is done, the article is flagged quality and after some time a major edit (new draft) occurs. Is there any way to just re-open the existing thread at forums.o.o instead of creating a new one (by RSS) or does this need to be done manually by wiki forum moderators? - How can we restrict the creation of discussion threads to enduser-relevant pages at the openSUSE Wiki? Is FlaggedRevs maybe able to output the RSS feed just for selected namespaces or may we hack that together (a subset of the default RSS) and provide just the drafts in interesting namespaces to "forumsadmin" RSS grabber? Lots of questions and hopefully the start of a fruitful discussion. Let's brainstorm and come up with something really awesome for the sake of the openSUSE community. Your turn gentlemen ... Best, R -- Rupert Horstkötter openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 09 December 2009 04:12:58 Rupert Horstkötter wrote: ...
Rajko, is FlaggedRevs able to provide an RSS feed for draft revisions? Kim, is vBulletin (i.e. the RSS grabber you have) able to use this FlaggedRevs RSS feed and post corresponding threads at the Wiki forum?
I have to check that, but I suspect the answer will be no. It is either buried in Mediawiki itself as option, like the existing one, with email reports on page changes, or it requires extension. We mentioned idea last night, and I just checked functionality of SimpleFeed extension. It is just input method, the same as Forums feed grabber, as mentioned in Kim's mail. On the other hand, manually linking article, that one wants to be reviewed can be option too if there is no other tools available, but even that option requires working wiki with FlaggedRevs, so that we can check what link to provide in the forum post. ...
Lots of questions and hopefully the start of a fruitful discussion. Let's brainstorm and come up with something really awesome for the sake of the openSUSE community. Your turn gentlemen ...
We have to think on communication capabilities of software and people. Overloading forums with potentially hundreds of automatically generated articles, what that brings? Maybe manual selection can do better job, where we present articles that really need review of many people that should be their users. The fact is that from that process wiki team will learn what is asked for and direct future articles in that direction.
Best, R
-- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Rajko, 2009/12/10 Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net>:
On Wednesday 09 December 2009 04:12:58 Rupert Horstkötter wrote: ...
Rajko, is FlaggedRevs able to provide an RSS feed for draft revisions? Kim, is vBulletin (i.e. the RSS grabber you have) able to use this FlaggedRevs RSS feed and post corresponding threads at the Wiki forum?
I have to check that, but I suspect the answer will be no. It is either buried in Mediawiki itself as option, like the existing one, with email reports on page changes, or it requires extension.
That's unfortunate. Seems that I got you wrong in the transition meeting. I thought the "email reports" you mention would have been a RSS feed.
We mentioned idea last night, and I just checked functionality of SimpleFeed extension. It is just input method, the same as Forums feed grabber, as mentioned in Kim's mail.
On the other hand, manually linking article, that one wants to be reviewed can be option too if there is no other tools available, but even that option requires working wiki with FlaggedRevs, so that we can check what link to provide in the forum post.
Sure manually linking is also possible. Question is how to encourage people to do this. On the other hand the sole motivation to get his article flagged as "quality" should be at least some kind of motivation for the editor to kickoff the reviewing for his article at forums.o.o manually. If he do not the article will just remain as a "Draft" .. if we need to go for the manual approach we should define the reviewing as a requirement to get a "Quality" flag. That said, I'd still appreciate to have the "automagical" method.
...
Lots of questions and hopefully the start of a fruitful discussion. Let's brainstorm and come up with something really awesome for the sake of the openSUSE community. Your turn gentlemen ...
We have to think on communication capabilities of software and people. Overloading forums with potentially hundreds of automatically generated articles, what that brings?
It ensures the utilization of the reviewing process. I doubt it would be hundreds of threads cause as I said we just want to have threads for "Distro documentation pages", i.e. pages that are interesting for the enduser, not every crap we have in the wiki. If RSS turns out to be possible in the end .. couldn't we configure the RSS to just output new drafts in main namespace and leave all team pages, meeting logs etc etc apart?
Maybe manual selection can do better job, where we present articles that really need review of many people that should be their users. The fact is that from that process wiki team will learn what is asked for and direct future articles in that direction.
Yeah! Let's investigate the abilities we have on the table and then make a decision about the best approach. Please let think about other possibilities we may investigate besides the RSS approach. Isn't there a kind of bridge between vBulletin and MediaWiki available? Or if not, are we able to code something by ourselves? Pseudocode: if [new draft in monitored namespace] && [thread doesn't exist yet] then create thread elif [particular thread does exist already] then re-open existing thread and update draft URL fi Best, R
Best, R
-- Regards Rajko,
openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
-- Rupert Horstkötter openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 10 December 2009 04:55:04 Rupert Horstkötter wrote:
I have to check that, but I suspect the answer will be no. It is either buried in Mediawiki itself as option, like the existing one, with email reports on page changes, or it requires extension.
That's unfortunate. Seems that I got you wrong in the transition meeting. I thought the "email reports" you mention would have been a RSS feed.
It is possible and it is function of Mediwiki software that we have since update. See: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuration_settings#Feed It is enabled, but I can't get it to work with Akregator, which complains on invalid XML. -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 December 2009 19:47:04 Rajko M. wrote:
It is enabled, but I can't get it to work with Akregator, which complains on invalid XML.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=564258 -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
<Jonathan_R> say for example wiki.opensuse.org/sbd <Jonathan_R> point the forum to that rss feed <Jonathan_R> now any creations/additions/changes to any articles would be created in the forums.opensuse.org <rhorstkoetter> yes <Jonathan_R> so now you'd have a thread on the article <Jonathan_R> people could then comment on it <rhorstkoetter> yeah, a new one for first edit and re-opened for subsequent ones <rhorstkoetter> yeah <Jonathan_R> if another change to an article occurs, then the forumsadmin would add another post in the existing thread if one exists <rhorstkoetter> yes <rhorstkoetter> wait at this point <Jonathan_R> k <rhorstkoetter> first edit would be en.o.o/nvidia/rev1 <rhorstkoetter> second edit (new draft) would be en.o.o/nvidia/rev2 <rhorstkoetter> thus if forumsadmin adds a new post to existing thread the url pointing to the respective rev of flaggedrevs (not sure about the url schema) would be updated <rhorstkoetter> forumsadmin posts an abstract with a link to the full version <rhorstkoetter> still on the same page? <Jonathan_R> right <Jonathan_R> yes <rhorstkoetter> OK <rhorstkoetter> last problem: how to advertise the location of the forums thread in the wiki draft (on top of it) while in draft state? <Jonathan_R> that, i dont know\ <rhorstkoetter> there I'd like to have a wiki-template "to discuss this draft, clickhere" and the reader ends up at the right place at forums.o.o <Jonathan_R> hmm <rhorstkoetter> if we manage to acheive all that .. we'll do awesome <Jonathan_R> the discuss tab could be linked to the forum <rhorstkoetter> that'd be cool yes <Spyhawk> Is it possible to achieve that automatically ? <Jonathan_R> there should be a way to do that <rhorstkoetter> that's possible with mediawiki? <Jonathan_R> i dont see why not <Jonathan_R> its php <rhorstkoetter> link the discussion tab of the respective article draft to the right thread/post at forums.o.o <rhorstkoetter> awesome <Jonathan_R> thread, not sure <Jonathan_R> forum, yes On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 11:12 +0100, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:
Team,
Rajko and I are assigned to find a solution for the FlaggedRevs/Wiki-Forum combination. I decided to post the progress of AI3 to the list as everyone interested can join the discussion at any time and help the assignees that way. Kim Groneman (Admin of the OSF) and Jon Rocker (Local Mod for the Wiki Forum and interested person in this AI3) explicitly is in CC:
So what are we trying to achieve (as a background for Kim)? We'll use FlaggedRevs MediaWiki extension in combination with the Wiki Forum at forums.o.o as our QA flagship for the new (good) openSUSE wiki. FlaggedRevs provides the opportunity to flag certain articles as "Quality revision", i.e. as approved documentation while providing "Draft revisions" in parallel .. the "Quality revision" is the one shown the user by default (Drafts are accessible by clicking a link at the top right of the page). Utilizing this extension we'd like to achieve a reviewing/approval process for new articles (initially flagged as Draft) as well as major edits (flagged as draft until a wiki team member approves it and replaces the "Quality revision" with the new draft) and for that we'd like to use the Wiki forum. I hope this is clear so far? Please ask if it's not.
We now have two scenarios on the table: 1. There is a brand new article created by an editor and this is flagged as draft initially. That draft revision should now have a corresponding discussion thread at the wiki forum where the community can review the article and provide feedback. Over time we hope that this process improves the article and provides the editor the opportunity to fine-tune. After some period of time, the draft gets approved (flagged as quality) and is presented as such to the reader. 2. We already have an article and some editor get started to write a new draft revision .. FlaggedRevs always automatically creates new Draft revisions of Quality articles whenever an edit occurs. This new draft is a potential candidate to replace the quality revision IF it passes the reviewing process at forums.o.o and is considered as a valid evolution by the wiki team.
That said, our task now is to find out how we can "automagically" create threads in the wiki forum whenever FlaggedRevs detects a new draft (be it due to scenario 1 or 2). We doubt that simply encouraging editors to use the wiki forum as a proofreading platform wouldn't lead to expected results and thus we'd value an automatism.
Jon Rocker (in CC:) came up with a rather good and simple idea yesterday on IRC and I thought about it. What about utilizing the forums RSS grabber "forumsadmin" for this? This bot does, afaik, RSS grabbing from various sources and post an abstract at "Tech News" category at the OSF.
Rajko, is FlaggedRevs able to provide an RSS feed for draft revisions? Kim, is vBulletin (i.e. the RSS grabber you have) able to use this FlaggedRevs RSS feed and post corresponding threads at the Wiki forum?
Some further questions IF that turns out to be possible: - May we put a wiki-template "A discussion thread has been created at <forums URL>" on top of the particular draft revision? Can this be done "automagically" and how? - How should we deal with duplicates? E.g. someone creates a brand new article, the reviewing is done, the article is flagged quality and after some time a major edit (new draft) occurs. Is there any way to just re-open the existing thread at forums.o.o instead of creating a new one (by RSS) or does this need to be done manually by wiki forum moderators? - How can we restrict the creation of discussion threads to enduser-relevant pages at the openSUSE Wiki? Is FlaggedRevs maybe able to output the RSS feed just for selected namespaces or may we hack that together (a subset of the default RSS) and provide just the drafts in interesting namespaces to "forumsadmin" RSS grabber?
Lots of questions and hopefully the start of a fruitful discussion. Let's brainstorm and come up with something really awesome for the sake of the openSUSE community. Your turn gentlemen ...
Best, R -- Rupert Horstkötter openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Team, Jon and I had this discussion today over at #opensuse-wiki talking about AI #3. We THINK that we fund s solution for 1,2,3,4 and maybe issue 5. Please read the attached log of the conversation and provide your opinion. Jon already posted a subset of the discussion and I now post the whole thing again along with that intro so everyone knows what's the purpose. (15:40:30) rhorstkoetter: 1. new article =draft -> thread at forums.o.o (15:40:42) Jonathan_R: i'm not good enough at php to write it though (15:41:08) rhorstkoetter: 2. edit to existing article = new draft -> re-open thread at forums.o.o (15:41:29) rhorstkoetter: 3. this should be restricted to main namespace (enduser-interesting docu) (15:42:12) rhorstkoetter: 4. the forums thread must point to the draft url when first OR subsequent (re-opened thread) draft appears (15:42:44) Jonathan_R: well, we know we can do point 4 (15:43:21) Jonathan_R: it seems its points 2 and 3 that we need to figure out (15:43:31) rhorstkoetter: 5. last but not least: the respective draft page should have a wiki template "automagically" placed on top once the thread is created at forums.o.o pointing to the respective thread (15:43:34) rhorstkoetter: that's it (15:43:49) rhorstkoetter: I just tried to recapitulize (15:44:00) Jonathan_R: yeah (15:44:06) rhorstkoetter: that's our task and we lack a solution so far (15:44:16) Jonathan_R: you don't use a forum often do you (15:44:26) rhorstkoetter: any input on solving 1,2,3,4 OR 5 or all is much apprecaited (15:44:36) rhorstkoetter: Jonathan_R: I do (15:44:42) Jonathan_R: hmm (15:44:47) rhorstkoetter: I just post to the private area though (15:44:56) Jonathan_R: we could pin templates at the top (15:45:02) Jonathan_R: like a sticky (15:45:11) Jonathan_R: but it would be a seperate thread (15:45:11) rhorstkoetter: my postcount is at ~450 with 3-5 posts to the public forums (15:46:02) rhorstkoetter: sorry, I don't get it (15:46:34) Jonathan_R: as kim mentioned, when an edit occurs, it would re-open the thread, and be seen as another post in that thread (15:46:47) rhorstkoetter: #5 means the draft page should have a wiki-template "discussion thread at forums.o.o/wiki/..." in order to crosslink the discussion thread .. that's what I meant (15:47:07) rhorstkoetter: Jonathan_R: that's intended that way and awesome (15:47:19) Jonathan_R: what your talking about if reformatting the post (15:47:22) rhorstkoetter: is that that difficult to understand actually? (15:47:23) rhorstkoetter: lol (15:47:37) Jonathan_R: no, its done automatically (15:47:43) rhorstkoetter: let's assume we have NO article at first ok? (15:47:55) Jonathan_R: the only part that would be difficult is the templates (15:48:05) Jonathan_R: where you want that inline or something (15:48:15) rhorstkoetter: now YOU enter the wiki, create a new article (draft) and forum thread gets created (15:48:19) Jonathan_R: that would involve reformatting a post (15:48:35) rhorstkoetter: it's not about the forums post argghh (15:48:36) Jonathan_R: which would involve rewritting the forum software (15:48:52) rhorstkoetter: the wiki-template should be on top of the wiki article draft (15:48:59) Jonathan_R: right rhorstkoetter i get that (15:49:11) rhorstkoetter: as long as it's in draft situation it should point to the discussion thread (15:49:22) Jonathan_R: say for example wiki.opensuse.org/sbd (15:49:33) Jonathan_R: point the forum to that rss feed (15:50:04) Jonathan_R: now any creations/additions/changes to any articles would be created in the forums.opensuse.org (15:50:17) rhorstkoetter: yes (15:50:43) Jonathan_R: so now you'd have a thread on the article (15:50:57) Jonathan_R: people could then comment on it (15:51:08) rhorstkoetter: yeah, a new one for first edit and re-opened for subsequent ones (15:51:15) rhorstkoetter: yeah (15:51:38) Jonathan_R: if another change to an article occurs, then the forumsadmin would add another post in the existing thread if one exists (15:51:53) rhorstkoetter: yes (15:52:12) rhorstkoetter: wait at this point (15:52:18) Jonathan_R: k (15:52:43) rhorstkoetter: first edit would be en.o.o/nvidia/rev1 (15:53:02) rhorstkoetter: second edit (new draft) would be en.o.o/nvidia/rev2 (15:53:51) rhorstkoetter: thus if forumsadmin adds a new post to existing thread the url pointing to the respective rev of flaggedrevs (not sure about the url schema) would be updated (15:54:13) rhorstkoetter: forumsadmin posts an abstract with a link to the full version (15:54:20) rhorstkoetter: still on the same page? (15:54:23) Jonathan_R: right (15:54:26) Jonathan_R: yes (15:54:29) rhorstkoetter: OK (15:55:05) rhorstkoetter: last problem: how to advertise the location of the forums thread in the wiki draft (on top of it) while in draft state? (15:55:36) Jonathan_R: that, i dont know\ (15:55:42) rhorstkoetter: there I'd like to have a wiki-template "to discuss this draft, clickhere" and the reader ends up at the right place at forums.o.o (15:55:54) Jonathan_R: hmm (15:56:04) rhorstkoetter: if we manage to acheive all that .. we'll do awesome (15:56:06) Jonathan_R: the discuss tab could be linked to the forum (15:56:21) rhorstkoetter: that'd be cool yes (15:56:32) Spyhawk: Is it possible to achieve that automatically ? (15:56:33) Jonathan_R: there should be a way to do that (15:56:37) rhorstkoetter: that's possible with mediawiki? (15:56:46) Jonathan_R: i dont see why not (15:56:48) Jonathan_R: its php (15:56:59) rhorstkoetter: link the discussion tab of the respective article draft to the right thread/post at forums.o.o (15:57:03) rhorstkoetter: awesome (15:57:17) Jonathan_R: thread, not sure (15:57:22) Jonathan_R: forum, yes (15:57:29) rhorstkoetter: may you please present that solution (you're the technical chiefmaster) at the ml thread (15:57:48) rhorstkoetter: leaving #5 open for now (15:57:49) Jonathan_R: me, technical chiefmaster? (15:57:53) ***Jonathan_R blushes (15:58:12) rhorstkoetter: Jonathan_R: if you compare you and me .. you're technical chiefmaster actually (15:58:24) Jonathan_R: lol (15:58:28) rhorstkoetter: no honestly .. please do this if feasible for you (15:58:36) Jonathan_R: can i just copy and paste this convo (15:58:54) rhorstkoetter: just a summary of the solution we worked out here with everyone initially addressed by me in CC (15:59:05) rhorstkoetter: OK (15:59:22) rhorstkoetter: thanks for taking care (15:59:55) rhorstkoetter: for me that sounds perfectly sufficient as #5 = the wiki templates anyway is just a gimmick at best (16:00:42) rhorstkoetter: solving 1-4 and marking 5 as desirable and we're already doing awesome .. then explaining this process at the Guidelines (hint: Spyhawk) and we have it (16:00:47) rhorstkoetter: AI3 solved ;) Thanks, R -- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 December 2009 09:12:06 Rupert Horstkötter wrote:
(15:55:05) rhorstkoetter: last problem: how to advertise the location of the forums thread in the wiki draft (on top of it) while in draft state?
Let we see what the http://wiki.opensuse.org can do with all added extensions and then decide how to deal with this problem. -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Jonathan Rocker -
Rajko M. -
Rupert Horstkötter