2010/2/23 Rupert Horstkötter :

Rajko,

2010/2/23 Rajko M. :

...

It is white text on black background and it breaks text flow, like many other templates that are intended to be inserted in text.

I would like to propose use of templates inserted in text very sparingly. Pages broken with templates that contain images, bold and large text, colored background, plethora of lines, where user has to hunt next appearance of meaningful text are all but nice to read, and we have a lot pages in demand that suffer from this.

Our problem with the current wiki is not only "hard to find" articles, but articles that with all information in article is hard to read.

See this http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories and this http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:KDE/Repositories (note that this is older version of main article) or this http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Repositories

Which is easier to read and find information that user needs? One with 20 templates breaking text flow, or one without.

I'm not entirely sure what to answer here. On the one side I clearly see the reason you come up with the proposal to "use those templates very sparingly", on the other hand, I read all examples several times and for me personally the templates weren't that "text flow breaking". I guess it's a matter of personal taste in the end. That said, feel free to go forward with this if nobody else complains about the change. Fine by me!

Same as Rupert. I also do believe that the "version boxes" help the reader to figure out the correct information faster. Interestingly, the Gnome repo page is the shortest of the 3 examples you mentioned, but the hardest to read imho. This page needs indeed "some love". But I agree with the fact that shell template could be improved (ie, it is actually shorter than other templates for no apparent reason). R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rajko, 2010/2/24 Rajko M. :

On Tuesday 23 February 2010 13:46:33 Rémy Marquis wrote:

...

2010/2/23 Rupert Horstkötter : ...

...

...

Our problem with the current wiki is not only "hard to find" articles, but articles that with all information in article is hard to read.

See this http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories and this http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:KDE/Repositories (note that this is older version of main article) or this http://en.opensuse.org/GNOME/Repositories

Which is easier to read and find information that user needs? One with 20 templates breaking text flow, or one without.

I'm not entirely sure what to answer here. On the one side I clearly see the reason you come up with the proposal to "use those templates very sparingly", on the other hand, I read all examples several times and for me personally the templates weren't that "text flow breaking". I guess it's a matter of personal taste in the end. That said, feel free to go forward with this if nobody else complains about the change. Fine by me!

I took above KDE example just because I had example page Talk:KDE/Repositories that is not loaded with templates, but we have much worse cases. For instance: http://en.opensuse.org/Synce is example how instructions should not be written.

If kde then ..., if gnome then ..., else; fi

Not many can read code-like instructions. There will be many more happy readers if there will be "Synce on KDE" and "Synce on GNOME".

What are the problems with KDE/Repositories : * Explanation what repo is about is written in normal text, and users are skipping that as unimportant info. Long discussion on ML about the repos showed after some time that not many read repo description, ie. normal text. * actual list of repos is moved far right plus * it is using very long strings that have identical begin and important information is somewhere in the middle of the string; current version is using bold names right on the begin, which brings important info where it should be

You mention some valid points here (e.g. important info in the middle of the string), but still, I personally have no problems with the visual presentation of e.g. the KDE page cause I myself read the text. You may be right that other people do not with before-mentioned results. That said, as already mentioned, feel free to improve this to your liking if there are no further complaints showing up. As this is (more or less) personal taste I can just provide my personal perception and I have no problem with the current presentation. Just my 0.02$ I second what you said about the if; elif; elif; else; fi instructions though!

It is actually problem that we need to explain article writers that there are some rules how to highlight important information, not just dump it and let readers hunt important pieces.

+1, but honestly this is more of a problem on the reader than on the writer side from my perspective. You can tell people several times to READ and some do and some do not, regardless of the presentation .. I could imagine that this could get even worse (maybe) if the 1-click install links are no longer that prominently placed.

...

Same as Rupert. I also do believe that the "version boxes" help the reader to figure out the correct information faster.

They are very "loud" and cover important pieces of info written in normal text with great success.

...

Interestingly, the Gnome repo page is the shortest of the 3 examples you mentioned, but the hardest to read imho. This page needs indeed "some love".

I agree with that. GNOME is even worse then old version of KDE article as it treats readers as coders that can insert information where it is missing.

...

But I agree with the fact that shell template could be improved (ie, it is actually shorter than other templates for no apparent reason).

The reason is that is based on custom class shell that is defined as is. We can define different template completely skipping class shell.

One more problem with current sell template is that long lines are not shown at all when they run out of allotted space. White text on white background is hard to see :)

Just kidding but there's a german joke that comes to my mind here .. What does the East Friesland flag look like? White Eagle on white background! :-) Best, R

...

R.

-- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org