[opensuse-wiki] Plan Status?
Hi, I have a question regarding the current plan and the status of the Wiki migration. If I remember correctly the plan was to switch to the new english (and the german?) wiki before 11.3 comes out, is that still the plan? When looking at the Todo-Page at [1] one still finds a lot of free spaces in the list in the "Who"-Column. Is the list up to date? Or does that matter at all? It would be great if the Wiki Team could clearify on this a bit because I think the new wiki is quite important for a nice 11.3 "Party" and it would be good to know about the facts there. Thanks, Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 29.06.2010 15:13, Klaas Freitag wrote:
Hi,
I have a question regarding the current plan and the status of the Wiki migration. If I remember correctly the plan was to switch to the new english (and the german?) wiki before 11.3 comes out, is that still the plan?
Yes, it;s the plan to switch short before 11.3, I think at 12.7.
When looking at the Todo-Page at [1] one still finds a lot of free spaces in the list in the "Who"-Column. Is the list up to date? Or does that matter at all?
It would be great if the Wiki Team could clearify on this a bit because I think the new wiki is quite important for a nice 11.3 "Party" and it would be good to know about the facts there.
There is still a lot of work to do. The areas in which we are behind and that are needed for a good launch are the distribution portal (Portal:Distribution) and concept (do we want a portal for each release?), the project portal (Portal:Project) and the application pages (no consistant layout). The Studio docs are being worked on by the studio team, but I don't think they are read until the launch. Also some project specific pieces are missing, like artwork pages, meetings, gnome, translation guides, yast.. Greetings -- Thomas Schmidt (tschmidt [at] suse.de) SUSE Linux Products GmbH :: Research & Development :: Tools "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch 30 Juni 2010 14:19:43 schrieb Thomas Schmidt: Hi,
I have a question regarding the current plan and the status of the Wiki migration. If I remember correctly the plan was to switch to the new english (and the german?) wiki before 11.3 comes out, is that still the plan?
Yes, it;s the plan to switch short before 11.3, I think at 12.7. Good.
When looking at the Todo-Page at [1] one still finds a lot of free spaces in the list in the "Who"-Column. Is the list up to date? Or does that matter at all?
It would be great if the Wiki Team could clearify on this a bit because I think the new wiki is quite important for a nice 11.3 "Party" and it would be good to know about the facts there.
There is still a lot of work to do. The areas in which we are behind and that are needed for a good launch are the distribution portal (Portal:Distribution) and concept (do we want a portal for each release?), the project portal (Portal:Project) and the application pages (no consistant layout). Thanks, Tom, for this information. What I am wondering is who is supposed to do these missing peaces? And what is the exit criteria, ie. do we launch in any case, even if these parts are still missing in two weeks?
We talked about that a bit in the project meeting yesterday. People asked why there isn't a public call for help. I understand that it is important that people who want to help with the migration understand the new concepts to make the new wiki a success. OTOH I see that for many of the still missing parts we need the experts who formerly maintained the pages, and these aren't probably able to catch up with the new wiki concepts in the remaining time. So how can this be helped? 1. We make the info about the new wiki concepts easier consumeable, ie. with the help of a screencast so that people easily can consume it and know how to work in the new wiki and start. 2. The current members of the Wiki team do the work where the expert wiki knowledge is needed (ie. create stub pages in the right context in the new wiki, do formatting etc.) and afterwards catch the experts and ask them to more or less "copy and paste" the content into the new page and rework it from the content POV. Maybe one of these ideas can help? What does the wiki team think? regards, Klaas
The Studio docs are being worked on by the studio team, but I don't think they are read until the launch.
Also some project specific pieces are missing, like artwork pages, meetings, gnome, translation guides, yast..
Greetings
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 July 2010 07:09:46 Klaas Freitag wrote:
Am Mittwoch 30 Juni 2010 14:19:43 schrieb Thomas Schmidt: ...
Yes, it;s the plan to switch short before 11.3, I think at 12.7.
Good.
...
There is still a lot of work to do. The areas in which we are behind and that are needed for a good launch are the distribution portal (Portal:Distribution) and concept (do we want a portal for each release?), the project portal (Portal:Project) and the application pages (no consistant layout).
Current concept is to have portal for each release as there is always 3 versions active, plus development, but then what to put in the Portal:Distribution, more general stuff about distro: * history from S.u.S.E. to openSUSE * purpose of distributions in Linux and what advantages that provide to end user * explanation what is software management and how it is provided trough package management * some general advices how to learn about Linux: ** for novices - method how to learn, pointers to articles and books on the web ** for advanced users -
Thanks, Tom, for this information. What I am wondering is who is supposed to do these missing peaces?
Someone :) There is no enough man power to cover all.
And what is the exit criteria, ie. do we launch in any case, even if these parts are still missing in two weeks?
There is a lot work to do, but hiding wiki from other users will not bring more contributors, so delaying a switch will just delay fixing the issues. Put prominent temporary message that wiki is in transition, point to usable guide how to use information right now, how to help and make switch. IMO, majority of issues that is slow to solve are like mentioned for Portal:Distribution, concepts how to organize something.
We talked about that a bit in the project meeting yesterday. People asked why there isn't a public call for help.
Where to publish that call to be public enough? We have few messages in Forums, News, Weekly News, and Planet openSUSE, plus mail list opensuse-wiki. I know that some people don't use any of them, but where to go so that everyone is aware of migration.
I understand that it is important that people who want to help with the migration understand the new concepts to make the new wiki a success. OTOH I see that for many of the still missing parts we need the experts who formerly maintained the pages, and these aren't probably able to catch up with the new wiki concepts in the remaining time.
So how can this be helped? 1. We make the info about the new wiki concepts easier consumeable, ie. with the help of a screencast so that people easily can consume it and know how to work in the new wiki and start. 2. The current members of the Wiki team do the work where the expert wiki knowledge is needed (ie. create stub pages in the right context in the new wiki, do formatting etc.) and afterwards catch the experts and ask them to more or less "copy and paste" the content into the new page and rework it from the content POV.
Maybe one of these ideas can help? What does the wiki team think?
We need help to make more people aware that wiki is in transition and we need more help, but we also need more participants in discussion how to proceed. There are issues that pop up all the time and more ideas how to solve them are welcome. Ad 1) Agree. Problem is that only few people are clear with a concept. They seems to have to write FAQ and help article for the wiki, check what new contributors are trying to do, direct them to help articles, correct pages that are not in line with guidelines and general usability, create new pages that are missing, develop concepts, procedures and think how they should be applied, report annoyances (bugs) in the layout, and what not. IMO, for me it is too much for a part time volunteer. Making screencast is a good idea. Taking time limitations, simplifying rules and interactively develop procedures and templates with people that will actually use them is better. We got that chance few times and each time we came up with set of rules that other have to apply without asking questions. My experience is that dialog is the only way to go. We can't think of all stuff in advance, so having dialog helps contributors and us at the same time. BTW, I just updated one of help files: http://wiki.opensuse.org/Help:Namespace to answer some questions that I have to answer around quite often. Ad 2) Experts should work with wiki team before articles are created. The most important, experts should contact wiki team. Our contacts are public, while guessing whom to contact from one or more wiki IDs in the article history is something for Sherlock Holmes. We can't say what title is correct and we must reconcile wiki and general usability requirements with requirement for technical correctness. I already have such experience with "Systems Management" != "System management"; second was my opinion. Second, copy paste will work only when one author wrote old article and he or she is the one that creates article in a new wiki. For multiple authors we need article history for attribution purposes, and for that the easiest method is export and import, from old to new wiki. I made list of articles that are currently in the wiki.o.o so that we can go trough them and fix histories later. For the future transfers we should use export import. -- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On 01.07.2010 14:09, Klaas Freitag wrote:
Am Mittwoch 30 Juni 2010 14:19:43 schrieb Thomas Schmidt:
There is still a lot of work to do. The areas in which we are behind and that are needed for a good launch are the distribution portal (Portal:Distribution) and concept (do we want a portal for each release?), the project portal (Portal:Project) and the application pages (no consistant layout).
Thanks, Tom, for this information. What I am wondering is who is supposed to do these missing peaces? And what is the exit criteria, ie. do we launch in any case, even if these parts are still missing in two weeks?
We will finish as much as we can before the launch.
We talked about that a bit in the project meeting yesterday. People asked why there isn't a public call for help.I understand that it is important that people who want to help with the migration understand the new concepts to make the new wiki a success. OTOH I see that for many of the still missing parts we need the experts who formerly maintained the pages, and these aren't probably able to catch up with the new wiki concepts in the remaining time.
You misunderstand the intention of the launch. A wiki is not something that you finish. It's a living document. You add, re-organize, update and remove stuff all the time. So the launch is not about having a 100% finished wiki. It's about having as close to 100% structure as we can. That is the only "feature" the new wiki brings: structure. The topics on Help:TODO are the big topics we have in the wiki and that we have to fit into the structure so that the topic experts don't have to worry about this part. That's why we focus our efforts on teaching specific people the structure instead of a general call for help. We need wiki experts and not random people that edit random pages. Those we will get automatically after the launch. So to speak the launch is out general call for help.
1. We make the info about the new wiki concepts easier consumeable, ie. with the help of a screencast
I have a screencast on my TODO. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On 29.06.2010 15:13, Klaas Freitag wrote:
I have a question regarding the current plan and the status of the Wiki migration. If I remember correctly the plan was to switch to the new english (and the german?) wiki before 11.3 comes out, is that still the plan?
We aim for the 12.7.
When looking at the Todo-Page at [1] one still finds a lot of free spaces in the list in the "Who"-Column. Is the list up to date? Or does that matter at all?
That (as the name suggests) is a TODO list. A TODO list that has no free spaces is not a TODO list :)
It would be great if the Wiki Team could clearify on this a bit because I think the new wiki is quite important for a nice 11.3 "Party" and it would be good to know about the facts there.
Clarify what exactly? Can you be a little bit more specific? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Henne Vogelsang -
Klaas Freitag -
Rajko M. -
Thomas Schmidt