[opensuse-wiki] Moving forward towards a better wiki
Hey, how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have: 1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want. Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
hello,
how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have:
1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want.
I consider the third option sounds perfectly good.No doubt it has its con and a bit of labor intensive work(few technical issues),but its not the issue.I mean which work doesn't include Human Work Force ! and starting a totally different layout is not a matter of couple of days.As it would result to the kind of wiki which we exactly want. So +1 for 3 :)
Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else?
Yeah!
Henne
Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch 11 November 2009 16:11:18 wrote Henne Vogelsang:
Hey,
how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have:
1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want.
Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else? The last Wiki i moved (http://wiki.open-news-network.org) i've build it from Scratch and move just the needed Content. So i'm voting there for the third Option.
-- Sincerely yours Sascha Manns openSUSE Member openSUSE Ambassador openSUSE Marketing Team openSUSE Build Service Web: http://saschamanns.gulli.to Blog: http://saigkill.wordpress.com ClaimID: http://claimid.com/saigkill -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Op woensdag 11 november 2009 16:11:18 schreef Henne Vogelsang:
Hey,
how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have:
1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want.
Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else?
Henne
I won't choose sides when it comes to picking an option in upper list. That's for the more advanced/skilled wiki-guys. There is one thing I'd like to say about it though. It seems to me there is no way of avoiding a major hassle, but it's needed. So, it doesn't really matter wich option will be picked. it always comes down to the same point wich is... First come up with a nice structure. (i think we had a discussion on that before. The main divider should be something like new users, devel, download, support database, etc...) second the layout. Nice, of course... but I thought of something themeable.. so it could be adjusted with every release cycle? Wouldn't that be cool? Anyhow... once these two things are set clear, it's just a matter of putting al things together again. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
I won't choose sides when it comes to picking an option in upper list. That's for the more advanced/skilled wiki-guys. There is one thing I'd like to say about it though. It seems to me there is no way of avoiding a major hassle, but it's needed. So, it doesn't really matter wich option will be picked. it always comes down to the same point wich is... First come up with a nice structure. (i think we had a discussion on that before. The main divider should be something like new users, devel, download, support database, etc...) second the layout. Nice, of course... but I thought of something themeable.. so it could be adjusted with every release cycle? Wouldn't that be cool? Anyhow... once these two things are set clear, it's just a matter of putting al things together again.
I agree. But the 3rd option seems the most efficient way to obtain a "clean" wiki quickly, as we have lot of extra/obsolete information that we don't need. I think it's also easier to select the pages that are really relevant that to remove and reorganise those that aren't. Let's start from scratch to ensure the best quality ! R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 11 November 2009 09:11:18 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have:
1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want.
Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else?
Third option, as it allows to setup structure that we want and tools that are necessary to support it. The content moving between wikis is not a big deal, as Remy mentioned there is lesser to keep then to put in archive, or abandon. Important is of course, as Kenny noted, that we decide whom we serve in a first place, but will not Also, besides content reorganization, there is need for layout refreshment. Current serves us quite long. I've stumbled upon some lighter layout proposals that were presented before current. I still got no time to seriously think about your RFC: Content Structure, and that is what I want to take time with. We have to think about current content, but also to take in account what we want to see on the wiki. One thing that comes in mind is babel.opensuse.org that will be home for translations. Creating dead servers with only few articles is not an option, making static articles in different languages available trough en wiki is bad idea too. Having translation wiki with the most important articles available there.
Henne
-- Regards, Rajko openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne, 2009/11/11 Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org>:
Hey,
how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have:
1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want.
Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else?
Thanks for pushing that forward. I'm on the same page that we should get started asap with the transition of content to the new Wiki and the implementation of the new Layout/Structure. That said, I'm definitely all for the third option! Let's do it right! Some things to consider: 1. What to do with the old Wiki during migrating? We should think about setting it to read-only (at least for some time), shouldn't we? 2. We should first decide on our QA process and implement this in the new clean wiki instance (3rd option). Rajko is on his way testing this and currently it seems to be the right approach and preferable over Sandboxing. We still need to agree on it though and I'd like to give Rajko the chance to test this appropriately. Thanks Rajko btw! 3. The Guidelines should be available (at least a first draft version): This cannot be done before we finally decided about the QA topic. Thoughts? Best, R
Henne
-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
-- Rupert Horstkötter openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 04:11:18PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have:
1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want.
Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else?
I'm also for the third option as it forces us to consider what to do with every page of the current wiki. Before moving any stuff from old wiki to new wiki, we should have a very precise plan what should be moved where, what should be discarded, merged, whatever. This requires existence of some 'transition' guidelines with which we all agree and which will be strictly followed while moving stuff from old to new wiki. Perhaps this could be achieved by organizing something similar (or just finishing) to http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team/Checked_Pages. This way we could - minimize time for which main opensuse wiki is r/o - check every page whether it complies with the wiki standards - properly categorize each page Generally, this way we could check the wiki from perspective of individual pages and later, by moving, reorganize it as a whole. -- Best regards / s pozdravem Petr Uzel, openSUSE Boosters Team ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 http://www.suse.cz 190 00 Prague 9, CR
Petr, 2009/11/12 Petr Uzel <petr.uzel@suse.cz>:
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 04:11:18PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
how about we move forward now? I'm seeing 3 options we have:
1. Create the new layout/structure and move (nearly) all current pages in the wiki around. 2. Copy all current pages into a the new-wiki namespace, work on the new layout/structure in the namespace and move pages back. 3. Start the layout/strucute from scratch on a new wiki instance and copy only the content we want.
Each of the methods has its pros and cons. I am very much in favor of 3. I think we would end up with a pretty mean 'n' clean setup which we can drive forward from then on. Your opinion? Rajko? Rupert? Federico? Petr? Lubos? Shayon? Everyone else?
I'm also for the third option as it forces us to consider what to do with every page of the current wiki.
Before moving any stuff from old wiki to new wiki, we should have a very precise plan what should be moved where, what should be discarded, merged, whatever. This requires existence of some 'transition' guidelines with which we all agree and which will be strictly followed while moving stuff from old to new wiki.
I'm completely on the same page here. If we do this without following "Transition Guidelines", we'll just produce a new mess out of an old one and this is not desirable. Talking about "Transition Guidelines", we should also consider our to be created "Wiki Guidelines" - unfortunately it's rather difficult to come up with these until other construction yards are still un-finished (especially the QA - Rajko is working on this and the sorting/creation of templates). I myself would very much appreciate if we could agree on a consistent design of Wiki articles - who's in charge of this? Shayon and John? All Petr mentioned is perfectly appropriate but in addition to that (while checking http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team/Checked_Pages or something similar), shouldn't we also take care to get rid of the in-consistent design? I'm sorry to mention again my very personal favourite wiki ubuntuusers.de but from my perspective they just do it right and therefore I took the time to collect some article examples (translated to english) to show what I mean with a consistent look&feel: http://tinyurl.com/yjz8fql http://tinyurl.com/yk2lugz http://tinyurl.com/yz7suh7 http://tinyurl.com/yjw7sba
From my perspective, a consistent design of content is an important aspect to provide usability to the reader. What do you think to take of this within the Transtition Guidelines (within the Wiki Guidelines anyway)?
Perhaps this could be achieved by organizing something similar (or just finishing) to http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team/Checked_Pages. This way we could - minimize time for which main opensuse wiki is r/o - check every page whether it complies with the wiki standards
See above: Design and general Wiki Guidelines.
- properly categorize each page
Generally, this way we could check the wiki from perspective of individual pages and later, by moving, reorganize it as a whole.
I'm completely on the same page here Petr. Thanks, R
-- Best regards / s pozdravem
Petr Uzel, openSUSE Boosters Team ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 http://www.suse.cz 190 00 Prague 9, CR
-- Rupert Horstkötter openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Rupert Horstkötter wrote:
Petr,
I'm also for the third option as it forces us to consider what to do with every page of the current wiki.
Before moving any stuff from old wiki to new wiki, we should have a very precise plan what should be moved where, what should be discarded, merged, whatever. This requires existence of some 'transition' guidelines with which we all agree and which will be strictly followed while moving stuff from old to new wiki.
I'm completely on the same page here. If we do this without following "Transition Guidelines", we'll just produce a new mess out of an old one and this is not desirable. Talking about "Transition Guidelines", we should also consider our to be created "Wiki Guidelines" - unfortunately it's rather difficult to come up with these until other construction yards are still un-finished (especially the QA - Rajko is working on this and the sorting/creation of templates). I myself would very much appreciate if we could agree on a consistent design of Wiki articles - who's in charge of this? Shayon and John? All Petr mentioned is perfectly appropriate but in addition to that (while checking http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team/Checked_Pages or something similar), shouldn't we also take care to get rid of the in-consistent design? I'm sorry to mention again my very personal favourite wiki ubuntuusers.de but from my perspective they just do it right and therefore I took the time to collect some article examples (translated to english) to show what I mean with a consistent look&feel: http://tinyurl.com/yjz8fql http://tinyurl.com/yk2lugz http://tinyurl.com/yz7suh7 http://tinyurl.com/yjw7sba
From my perspective, a consistent design of content is an important aspect to provide usability to the reader. What do you think to take of this within the Transtition Guidelines (within the Wiki Guidelines anyway)?
Well i am not a in charge at whole ,Right now i am working on the look of the front page and few days back I and Rajko were planning out the things which all thigs should be improvised on the frontpage.So lets see how far does it gets :) .As there are lot many things to be done over there (not that much , but still :D).Perosnaly i feel there is no requirement of a new wiki design.The current satisfies all needs including a consistent design.Where as we should focus more on the loop holes of the wiki and Moving towards a better wiki . Rest all is perfectly fine (IMO) ! . I dont say that i disagree with Rupert , but still ours one also completely makes sense ;) . Just needs a kind of refreshing.
Perhaps this could be achieved by organizing something similar (or just finishing) to http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team/Checked_Pages. This way we could - minimize time for which main opensuse wiki is r/o - check every page whether it complies with the wiki standards
See above: Design and general Wiki Guidelines.
- properly categorize each page
Generally, this way we could check the wiki from perspective of individual pages and later, by moving, reorganize it as a whole.
I'm completely on the same page here Petr.
Thanks, R
Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Henne Vogelsang -
Kenny Verstraete -
Petr Uzel -
Rajko M. -
Remy Marquis -
Rupert Horstkötter -
Sascha 'saigkill' Manns -
Shayon -
Shayon Mukherjee