[opensuse-wiki] AI2, AI 5 & AI6 Status report

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Remy Marquis

14 Dec 2009 14 Dec '09

07:12

Hi, Here is a status report regarding wiki transition AI #2, #5 and #6. AI#2 : Templates --------------------- I've cleaned more Template, added a few useful templates. The list of "standardized" templates can be found here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Template_Messages A proposition for the article template that should be hopefully become a standard through the wiki is here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template The basic structure is, as following : - Navigation bar (optional) - Introduction (Intro-frame) - Knowledge bar (version, prerequisite articles, links to more general help) - Body - See also section (related articles that might interest the reader, external links) Please give comment feedback. It's still WIP, but I must admit that I've actually no idea how to improve it at this stage. Any help regarding this issue is welcomed. A proposition by Shayon for the Portal template that should become the entry point to diverse sub-project (YaST, Libzypp, BuildService, Education, ..) can be found here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template and http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template/Example I think that Shayon is preparing a second proposition (which is still WIP as far as I know). AI#5 : Wiki Guidelines --------------------------- I've cleaned, merged the bunch of articles that were talking about Guidelines. The new "Wiki Guidelines" can be accessed here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines It is divided in 5 essential parts : - Style Guide (main structure, general usubility, basic elements) - Template Guide (basic info about Template and common template description, see AI#2) - Tag Guide (maintenance, cleanup tag, deletion policy) - Categorization Guide. This is still in early stage at the moment and need to be developed. Following a discussion with Rajko_m and Shayon, it might be useful to define a pre-selected list of categorization tags (ie, [[category:KDE]]) to help to properly categorize articles when migrating, but this need some extra time to prepare. - Translation Guide (how to provide a localized wiki) Shayon also proposed a NavBox linking to all Guidelines (General Guideline, Artwork, Trademark, etc) : http://en.opensuse.org/Template:Guidelines A specific portal dedicated to openSUSE Guidelines and Policies might also be a good idea in the new wiki instance. As always, please comment. I believe that huge improvements can still be done here. AI#6 : Transition Guidelines ----------------------------------- A step-to-step transition guideline is available here : http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines This is also in a early stage and input from all participants is required. Some comments from Shayon can also be found at the bottom, before the proposed wiki structure. Also, about the "Content Check" pages: Some page (~150) have been manually checked and tagged with "Passed QA check". However, this tag only indicate that the page content is not rubbish, but the format might need improvement to match the to-be-finalized Wiki Guidelines. I guess a second check, which include a format check, might be necessary for all pages. Please note that I won't be available to work on wiki this week. Keep the good work during my absence :) Regards, R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

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Shayon Mukherjee

14 Dec 14 Dec

08:37

Hello, Remy Marquis wrote:

...

Hi,

Here is a status report regarding wiki transition AI #2, #5 and #6.

AI#2 : Templates --------------------- I've cleaned more Template, added a few useful templates. The list of "standardized" templates can be found here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Template_Messages

A proposition for the article template that should be hopefully become a standard through the wiki is here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template

The basic structure is, as following : - Navigation bar (optional) - Introduction (Intro-frame) - Knowledge bar (version, prerequisite articles, links to more general help) - Body - See also section (related articles that might interest the reader, external links)

Please give comment feedback. It's still WIP, but I must admit that I've actually no idea how to improve it at this stage. Any help regarding this issue is welcomed.

Well it is surely a great work. And for now lets just keep the work in a continuous process on the page , like some trial & error , some new techniques , etc which would bring some more innovative idea and that way after a span of time we'll come out with a 100% satisfies template :D

...

A proposition by Shayon for the Portal template that should become the entry point to diverse sub-project (YaST, Libzypp, BuildService, Education, ..) can be found here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template and http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template/Example

I think that Shayon is preparing a second proposition (which is still WIP as far as I know).

Yeah! you are absolutely right , i am currently testing with the table format [1] as the <div> tags have shown some issues at an initial stage(now its almost fine).Few issues are also faced with the tables , but i am working on it.As soon as the entire thing is done, I'll update the list, Comments are most welcome !

...

AI#5 : Wiki Guidelines --------------------------- I've cleaned, merged the bunch of articles that were talking about Guidelines. The new "Wiki Guidelines" can be accessed here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines

It is divided in 5 essential parts : - Style Guide (main structure, general usubility, basic elements) - Template Guide (basic info about Template and common template description, see AI#2) - Tag Guide (maintenance, cleanup tag, deletion policy) - Categorization Guide. This is still in early stage at the moment and need to be developed. Following a discussion with Rajko_m and Shayon, it might be useful to define a pre-selected list of categorization tags (ie, [[category:KDE]]) to help to properly categorize articles when migrating, but this need some extra time to prepare. - Translation Guide (how to provide a localized wiki)

Shayon also proposed a NavBox linking to all Guidelines (General Guideline, Artwork, Trademark, etc) : http://en.opensuse.org/Template:Guidelines A specific portal dedicated to openSUSE Guidelines and Policies might also be a good idea in the new wiki instance.

As always, please comment. I believe that huge improvements can still be done here.

There are also other guidelines which are WIP or is to be prepared . In that case the the NavBox would guide you best :)

...

AI#6 : Transition Guidelines ----------------------------------- A step-to-step transition guideline is available here :

http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines

This is also in a early stage and input from all participants is required. Some comments from Shayon can also be found at the bottom, before the proposed wiki structure.

Also, about the "Content Check" pages: Some page (~150) have been manually checked and tagged with "Passed QA check". However, this tag only indicate that the page content is not rubbish, but the format might need improvement to match the to-be-finalized Wiki Guidelines. I guess a second check, which include a format check, might be necessary for all pages.

IMO , regarding the transition thing ,now we should focus on the pages which are not rubbish and migrate ASAP.After that we can have the Second Check concerned to the Format according to to-be-finalized Wiki Guidelines.

...

Please note that I won't be available to work on wiki this week. Keep the good work during my absence :)

Yeah ! . Have a good time :D

...

Regards,

R.

[1] - Table format (WIP) - http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock/Test_Page2 -- Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

14:07

Remy/All, 2009/12/14 Remy Marquis :

...

Hi,

Here is a status report regarding wiki transition AI #2, #5 and #6.

AI#2 : Templates --------------------- I've cleaned more Template, added a few useful templates. The list of "standardized" templates can be found here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Template_Messages

...

A proposition for the article template that should be hopefully become a standard through the wiki is here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template

The basic structure is, as following : - Navigation bar (optional) - Introduction (Intro-frame) - Knowledge bar (version, prerequisite articles, links to more general help) - Body - See also section (related articles that might interest the reader, external links)

Please give comment feedback. It's still WIP, but I must admit that I've actually no idea how to improve it at this stage. Any help regarding this issue is welcomed.

I actually like it very much - this is great work! Some feedback/suggestions: 1. Do we need "general help" in the knowledge bar? I.e. what should be linked there in particular? Wouldn't it be better to leave this apart and put "related articles" there (currently on the very bottom)? That'd be even more useful unless someone explains the actual need of "general help". 2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

...

A proposition by Shayon for the Portal template that should become the entry point to diverse sub-project (YaST, Libzypp, BuildService, Education, ..) can be found here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template and http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template/Example

I think that Shayon is preparing a second proposition (which is still WIP as far as I know).

Great work as well here! I already told Shayon on IRC that I feel this very much appropriate for the sub-project portals. Remaining task now would be to come up with a template for the main portal and to make Petr and Federico aware of the Template for sub-project portals we have - the have been assigned for the Portals (not the design). Thanks everyone involved for the great work on AI #2!

...

AI#5 : Wiki Guidelines --------------------------- I've cleaned, merged the bunch of articles that were talking about Guidelines. The new "Wiki Guidelines" can be accessed here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines

That's a good start. That said, we absolutely cannot put this (...) online and publicly available. This has to be formulated way more diplomatic :-) "Put online in August 2005, the openSUSE wiki has proved to be an invaluable documentation resource for users as well as contributors and developers. However, the number of page exponentially increased over the years and this uncontrolled growth came at the expense of the overall quality of the openSUSE wiki, with articles only partially written or duplicating others." Also, please think about where we can explain the QA process in detail most appropriately, i.e. the FlaggedRevs/Wiki-Forum reviewing/approving process. I'll provide the actual explanation once AI #3 finally is ironed out.

...

It is divided in 5 essential parts : - Style Guide (main structure, general usubility, basic elements) - Template Guide (basic info about Template and common template description, see AI#2) - Tag Guide (maintenance, cleanup tag, deletion policy)

I actually like the evolvement of former Daily_templates into Template Guide and Tag Guide. This IMO is a valid approach.

...

- Categorization Guide. This is still in early stage at the moment and need to be developed. Following a discussion with Rajko_m and Shayon, it might be useful to define a pre-selected list of categorization tags (ie, [[category:KDE]]) to help to properly categorize articles when migrating, but this need some extra time to prepare. - Translation Guide (how to provide a localized wiki)

Shayon also proposed a NavBox linking to all Guidelines (General Guideline, Artwork, Trademark, etc) : http://en.opensuse.org/Template:Guidelines

This makes perfect sense and definitely makes it easy to navigate!

...

A specific portal dedicated to openSUSE Guidelines and Policies might also be a good idea in the new wiki instance.

+1, shouldn't be too difficult adopting http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template

...

As always, please comment. I believe that huge improvements can still be done here.

It has a lot of potential and I'm sure you'll make it even better! No further suggestions from my side .. I leave the organizational decisions up to you here, Remy.

...

AI#6 : Transition Guidelines ----------------------------------- A step-to-step transition guideline is available here :

http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_Guidelines

This is also in a early stage and input from all participants is required. Some comments from Shayon can also be found at the bottom, before the proposed wiki structure.

While it's in an early stage, it's a well-thought out and well-documented process.

...

Also, about the "Content Check" pages: Some page (~150) have been manually checked and tagged with "Passed QA check". However, this tag only indicate that the page content is not rubbish, but the format might need improvement to match the to-be-finalized Wiki Guidelines. I guess a second check, which include a format check, might be necessary for all pages.

I second this! We need to start from scratch here to actually just transfer 100% "good" content into the new structure/instance.

...

Please note that I won't be available to work on wiki this week. Keep the good work during my absence :)

IC, thanks for coming up with the status report beforehand! Have a good week and please go forward such valuable afterwards :-) Thanks a lot, R Shayon/All, 2009/12/14 Shayon Mukherjee :

...

IMO , regarding the transition thing ,now we should focus on the pages which are not rubbish and migrate ASAP.After that we can have the Second Check concerned to the Format according to to-be-finalized Wiki Guidelines.

I disagree. We'll not transfer 0% semi-verified stuff to the new instance. While we can certainly focus on adopting non-rubbish content to the defined standards at first glance we urgently need to do the QA check for everything we have. ONLY that way we'll be able to stop the mess. That said, I'm going to post a "call for contributors" to the openSUSE forums and I hope to gain some volunteers for the actual "Article Transition" that way. I'd appreciate very much if wiki seniors could act as mentors here for volunteers that might step up. Best, R -- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

14:38

All, 2009/12/14 Rupert Horstkötter :

...

That said, I'm going to post a "call for contributors" to the openSUSE forums and I hope to gain some volunteers for the actual "Article Transition" that way. I'd appreciate very much if wiki seniors could act as mentors here for volunteers that might step up.

JFYI, the call for contributors is at http://forums.opensuse.org/tech-news/428612-wiki-transition-call-contributor... /me cross fingers for a (little) crowd of volunteers! Best, R -- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Christian Boltz

23:48

Hello, on Montag, 14. Dezember 2009, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

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2009/12/14 Remy Marquis :

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http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template

...

2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

If you want to steal some code ;-) see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:TOC_right&action=edit

...

...
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template

IMHO it would look even better with some distance (margin-bottom: 7px;) after each box. However I don't want to change the templates in the wiki for now, therefore I changed it using Firebug ;-) You can see the screenshot on www.cboltz.de/tmp/portal-margin.png Regards, Christian Boltz --

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Einmal im Jahr sorgen MS Produkte durch das Internet für Milliardenschäden in der Wirtschaft 2000: Love Letter, 2001: Code Red und Nimda, 2003: Sapphire, 2002? Windows XP. [Eric Wick, Wolfgang Ewert und Urs Traenkner in dcsm] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Shayon Mukherjee

15 Dec 15 Dec

08:35

Hello , Christian Boltz wrote:

...

2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a

...
second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

If you want to steal some code ;-) see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:TOC_right&action=edit

Well we already have that in our wiki :) [1]

...

...
...
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template

IMHO it would look even better with some distance (margin-bottom: 7px;) after each box. However I don't want to change the templates in the wiki for now, therefore I changed it using Firebug ;-) You can see the screenshot on www.cboltz.de/tmp/portal-margin.png

I very much appreciate your comments.IMHO having a number of white spaces in the page/wiki would make a impression of an less-text page, which i dont want want.Apart from this if you have a close then you may see that inside the box and also beside it we already have some space according to the text/layout so as to make the reading possible and make it prominent.Hence the div boxes are very much suitable and applies best to the current situation(initially designed). Still i would love to have others opinion on this matter :) . As i just made a point from my side.

...

Regards,

Christian Boltz

Rupert/All , 2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please? Well its not a major task to perform :) . But for now IMO lets have the second one for test and comparison with TOCright , then we can sort things out to prepare a second template.As i dont feel that theres actually a need of a second template just for the inclusion of TOCright , but yeah ! its important to provide users with that information so an option/statement below the intro-frame or something similar can be provided in order to guide them better. I disagree. We'll not transfer 0% semi-verified stuff to the new instance. While we can certainly focus on adopting non-rubbish content to the defined standards at first glance we urgently need to do the QA check for everything we have. ONLY that way we'll be able to stop the mess. That said, I'm going to post a "call for contributors" to the openSUSE forums and I hope to gain some volunteers for the actual "Article Transition" that way. I'd appreciate very much if wiki seniors could act as mentors here for volunteers that might step up. Well i focused on transferring the Non-Rubbish content to the new wiki and then check the Articles on the basis on the Article Templates.Never mind ;) , your idea sounds great . Just keep the listed updated with the recent news [1] http://en.opensuse.org/Template:TOCright -- Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

10:57

2009/12/15 Shayon Mukherjee :

...

Hello ,

Christian Boltz wrote:

...
2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a

...
second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

If you want to steal some code ;-) see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:TOC_right&action=edit

Well we already have that in our wiki :) [1]

...
...
...
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template

IMHO it would look even better with some distance (margin-bottom: 7px;) after each box. However I don't want to change the templates in the wiki for now, therefore I changed it using Firebug ;-) You can see the screenshot on www.cboltz.de/tmp/portal-margin.png

I very much appreciate your comments.IMHO having a number of white spaces in the page/wiki would make a impression of an less-text page, which i dont want want.Apart from this if you have a close then you may see that inside the box and also beside it we already have some space according to the text/layout so as to make the reading possible and make it prominent.Hence the div boxes are very much suitable and applies best to the current situation(initially designed).

Still i would love to have others opinion on this matter :) . As i just made a point from my side.

From my perspective www.cboltz.de/tmp/portal-margin.png with margin-bottom: 7px; really looks better than http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template - it's just a minor adjustment but it's more easy on the eyes. Would you please take care of this Shayon?

...

...
Regards,

Christian Boltz

Rupert/All ,

2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

Well its not a major task to perform :) . But for now IMO lets have the second one for test and comparison with TOCright , then we can sort things out to prepare a second template.As i dont feel that theres actually a need of a second template just for the inclusion of TOCright , but yeah ! its important to provide users with that information so an option/statement below the intro-frame or something similar can be provided in order to guide them better.

Shayon, I just want to have a second template with a right-aligned TOC. I won't provide the users a choice (?). I'm just curious if the one with a right-aligned TOC actually looks better or not and then we can decide if we use the current one OR the one with right-aligned TOC.

...

I disagree. We'll not transfer 0% semi-verified stuff to the new instance. While we can certainly focus on adopting non-rubbish content to the defined standards at first glance we urgently need to do the QA check for everything we have. ONLY that way we'll be able to stop the mess.

That said, I'm going to post a "call for contributors" to the openSUSE forums and I hope to gain some volunteers for the actual "Article Transition" that way. I'd appreciate very much if wiki seniors could act as mentors here for volunteers that might step up.

Well i focused on transferring the Non-Rubbish content to the new wiki and then check the Articles on the basis on the Article Templates.Never mind ;) , your idea sounds great . Just keep the listed updated with the recent news

[1] http://en.opensuse.org/Template:TOCright

--

Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Shayon Mukherjee

13:22

Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...

...
From my perspective www.cboltz.de/tmp/portal-margin.png with margin-bottom: 7px; really looks better than http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template - it's just a minor adjustment but it's more easy on the eyes. Would you please take care of this Shayon?

Rupert , Christian / All Done with the margin thing [2] [3], Agree with you all ;) [2] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template - The template [3] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template/Example - Test on YaST Sub-project* -- Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

16 Dec 16 Dec

10:46

Shayon, 2009/12/15 Shayon Mukherjee :

...

Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...
...
From my perspective www.cboltz.de/tmp/portal-margin.png with margin-bottom: 7px; really looks better than http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template - it's just a minor adjustment but it's more easy on the eyes. Would you please take care of this Shayon?

Rupert , Christian / All Done with the margin thing [2] [3], Agree with you all ;)

Good job, thanks!

...

[2] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template - The template [3] http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Portal_Template/Example - Test on YaST Sub-project*

-- Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM

Rémy Marquis

15 Dec 15 Dec

13:00

...

Some feedback/suggestions:

1. Do we need "general help" in the knowledge bar? I.e. what should be linked there in particular? Wouldn't it be better to leave this apart and put "related articles" there (currently on the very bottom)? That'd be even more useful unless someone explains the actual need of "general help".

I agree. Originally, I put direct links to general help here because I didn't know what to put to "fil the gap" :) Let's move the "See also" section here instead (shall we rename it "Related articles" ?)

...

2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

Well, I got mixed feeling about the results I obtained. Looking at the pages that actually use TOCright ( http://en.opensuse.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:TOCright ) and playing with the page I newly created ( http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template2 ), we can observe lot of inconsistency depending on the content of the page. Sometime the TOC integrate well into the page, sometimes it pulls down all the text leaving a large blank space (specially when we use a wide Template such as Info or Warning).. I think it's also not easy to correct it everywhere, because even though we can modify all templates, the effects of the TOC depend on the length of the TOC (length of article) and the length of the headings and section title. For the moment, I would go using the horizontal TOC to give a more consistent, professional aspect to the wiki.

...

...
AI#5 : Wiki Guidelines --------------------------- I've cleaned, merged the bunch of articles that were talking about Guidelines. The new "Wiki Guidelines" can be accessed here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines

That's a good start. That said, we absolutely cannot put this (...) online and publicly available. This has to be formulated way more diplomatic :-)

"Put online in August 2005, the openSUSE wiki has proved to be an invaluable documentation resource for users as well as contributors and developers. However, the number of page exponentially increased over the years and this uncontrolled growth came at the expense of the overall quality of the openSUSE wiki, with articles only partially written or duplicating others."

Hopefully, you don't know what was my initial thought when I wrote this sentence ;) Any help to give more neutrality to this paragraph is welcomed.

...

Also, please think about where we can explain the QA process in detail most appropriately, i.e. the FlaggedRevs/Wiki-Forum reviewing/approving process. I'll provide the actual explanation once AI #3 finally is ironed out.

I guess we can use http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines for the QA process explanation, or even a new separate page, depending on the length and complexity of the explanation. Regards, R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Shayon Mukherjee

13:59

Hello , Sorry for the repeated mails , just thought to bring the below details in everyones notice. Rémy Marquis wrote:

...

...
2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

Well, I got mixed feeling about the results I obtained.

Looking at the pages that actually use TOCright ( http://en.opensuse.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:TOCright ) and playing with the page I newly created ( http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template2 ), we can observe lot of inconsistency depending on the content of the page. Sometime the TOC integrate well into the page, sometimes it pulls down all the text leaving a large blank space (specially when we use a wide Template such as Info or Warning).. I think it's also not easy to correct it everywhere, because even though we can modify all templates, the effects of the TOC depend on the length of the TOC (length of article) and the length of the headings and section title.

For the moment, I would go using the horizontal TOC to give a more consistent, professional aspect to the wiki.

Well i also agree with Remy regarding the use of horizontal TOC but as we a current topic with the TOCright so in concerned to that i have made a test [1] as an alternative , which would help in minimizing the white space which happens due to the reasons mentioned above (by Remy) but i guess that is what 85% satisfaction.Also the the test would work with minimum two headings or until n unless we have a TOC.Rest all depends on the content of the text which would fit in , as right now i made the Knowledge Bar fit simultaneously with the TOCright , which moreover looks prominent .If its perfectly satisfactory then we can go with it too. -- Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

16 Dec 16 Dec

10:47

Shayon, 2009/12/15 Shayon Mukherjee :

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Hello , Sorry for the repeated mails , just thought to bring the below details in everyones notice. Rémy Marquis wrote:

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2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

Well, I got mixed feeling about the results I obtained.

Looking at the pages that actually use TOCright ( http://en.opensuse.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:TOCright ) and playing with the page I newly created ( http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template2 ), we can observe lot of inconsistency depending on the content of the page. Sometime the TOC integrate well into the page, sometimes it pulls down all the text leaving a large blank space (specially when we use a wide Template such as Info or Warning).. I think it's also not easy to correct it everywhere, because even though we can modify all templates, the effects of the TOC depend on the length of the TOC (length of article) and the length of the headings and section title.

For the moment, I would go using the horizontal TOC to give a more consistent, professional aspect to the wiki.

Well i also agree with Remy regarding the use of horizontal TOC but as we a current topic with the TOCright so in concerned to that i have made a test [1] as an alternative , which would help in minimizing the white space which happens due to the reasons mentioned above (by Remy) but i guess that is what 85% satisfaction.Also the the test would work with minimum two headings or until n unless we have a TOC.Rest all depends on the content of the text which would fit in , as right now i made the Knowledge Bar fit simultaneously with the TOCright , which moreover looks prominent .If its perfectly satisfactory then we can go with it too.

Unfortunately you haven't referenced [1].

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-- Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM

Shayon Mukherjee

11:41

Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

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Shayon,

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Well, I got mixed feeling about the results I obtained.

Looking at the pages that actually use TOCright ( http://en.opensuse.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:TOCright ) and playing with the page I newly created ( http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template2 ), we can observe lot of inconsistency depending on the content of the page. Sometime the TOC integrate well into the page, sometimes it pulls down all the text leaving a large blank space (specially when we use a wide Template such as Info or Warning).. I think it's also not easy to correct it everywhere, because even though we can modify all templates, the effects of the TOC depend on the length of the TOC (length of article) and the length of the headings and section title.

For the moment, I would go using the horizontal TOC to give a more consistent, professional aspect to the wiki.

Well i also agree with Remy regarding the use of horizontal TOC but as we a current topic with the TOCright so in concerned to that i have made a test [1] as an alternative , which would help in minimizing the white space which happens due to the reasons mentioned above (by Remy) but i guess that is what 85% satisfaction.Also the the test would work with minimum two headings or until n unless we have a TOC.Rest all depends on the content of the text which would fit in , as right now i made the Knowledge Bar fit simultaneously with the TOCright , which moreover looks prominent .If its perfectly satisfactory then we can go with it too.

Unfortunately you haven't referenced [1].

Oh i am really sorry , the link is - http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template2 -- Regards, Shayon Mukherjee openSUSE Wiki Team http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: ShayonM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter

10:44

Remy, 2009/12/15 Rémy Marquis :

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Some feedback/suggestions:

1. Do we need "general help" in the knowledge bar? I.e. what should be linked there in particular? Wouldn't it be better to leave this apart and put "related articles" there (currently on the very bottom)? That'd be even more useful unless someone explains the actual need of "general help".

I agree. Originally, I put direct links to general help here because I didn't know what to put to "fil the gap" :)

I see.

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Let's move the "See also" section here instead (shall we rename it "Related articles" ?)

Yes, sounds more reasonable than "See also"

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2. Not sure how difficult that'd be but I'd appreciate to have a second article-template with a vertical right-aligned table of contents instead of the horizontal one we currently have. I assume this is a matter of minutes for wiki seniors :-) Is it? Not sure, but I THINK this may look even better. May you come up with a second one to compare please?

Well, I got mixed feeling about the results I obtained.

Looking at the pages that actually use TOCright ( http://en.opensuse.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:TOCright ) and playing with the page I newly created ( http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Article_Template2 ), we can observe lot of inconsistency depending on the content of the page. Sometime the TOC integrate well into the page, sometimes it pulls down all the text leaving a large blank space (specially when we use a wide Template such as Info or Warning).. I think it's also not easy to correct it everywhere, because even though we can modify all templates, the effects of the TOC depend on the length of the TOC (length of article) and the length of the headings and section title.

For the moment, I would go using the horizontal TOC to give a more consistent, professional aspect to the wiki.

Aligned. If it's too difficult to achieve I second this. I can't estimate it anyway (honest person I am) and thus I go along with your decision. Thanks for trying it though!

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AI#5 : Wiki Guidelines --------------------------- I've cleaned, merged the bunch of articles that were talking about Guidelines. The new "Wiki Guidelines" can be accessed here : http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines

That's a good start. That said, we absolutely cannot put this (...) online and publicly available. This has to be formulated way more diplomatic :-)

"Put online in August 2005, the openSUSE wiki has proved to be an invaluable documentation resource for users as well as contributors and developers. However, the number of page exponentially increased over the years and this uncontrolled growth came at the expense of the overall quality of the openSUSE wiki, with articles only partially written or duplicating others."

Hopefully, you don't know what was my initial thought when I wrote this sentence ;)

Actually I can't wait to finally know it ;-)

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Any help to give more neutrality to this paragraph is welcomed.

I wrote something accordingly in my initial concept proposal -- Currently we have no QA and publishing processes for wiki articles. This makes it very hard to assure a consistent quality across all articles. In the past several approaches were made to clean up and scan the wiki in order to sort and merge articles, to assure a consistent quality, to merge duplicates, introduce meaningful categories etc. However, we are still not where we want to be. -- A slight variation of that (in past tense) would work out imho. It's all about the tone and language of the text .. the message actually is the very same :-)

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Also, please think about where we can explain the QA process in detail most appropriately, i.e. the FlaggedRevs/Wiki-Forum reviewing/approving process. I'll provide the actual explanation once AI #3 finally is ironed out.

I guess we can use http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines for the QA process explanation, or even a new separate page, depending on the length and complexity of the explanation.

+1, due to the complexity of the QA topic I'd suggest a new seperate page cited at http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Wiki_Guidelines, i.e. a very rough explanation there and a deeper one on a seperate page. Best, R

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Regards,

R.

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participants (5)

Christian Boltz
Remy Marquis
Rupert Horstkötter
Rémy Marquis
Shayon Mukherjee