As we all know and many complain about, the wiki is quite hard to find things in.
This also hinders contribution, because if you can't find something in a disorganised mess, for one you are not even sure what to contribute, as it hard to figure out what is missing or where to put it, and new contributors are unlikely to radicly change the structure to fix it.
The frontpage is also a hard thing to start on, and like makeup, it can only hide so much of what is underneath.
So it is up to us, and now is as good a time as any to get the wiki into shape, with some structure and clarity.
The most important sections (I believe) are downloads and documentation.
I have started with http:\en.opensuse.org\documentation and will continue on each major section linked to from that page, I have already done some reconstruction and moved some pages.
A good page for anybody to help is the page http://en.opensuse.org/Howtos You can simply find Howto type articles currently in the wiki and link to them in the correct section, or because it is wiki, create links to howto articles that should exist. It might be enough to spur someone into writing a new article.
So join in and help, offer feedback...be constructive. Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin.
Am Sonntag, den 07.05.2006, 15:42 +1000 schrieb Peter Flodin:
As we all know and many complain about, the wiki is quite hard to find things in.
ack
[snip]
The most important sections (I believe) are downloads and documentation.
Maybe they can be placed somewhat more prominent on the front page.
Regarding the documentation section: Is there a particular reason why we have separate sections for Documentation and Support Database?
I have started with http:\en.opensuse.org\documentation and will continue on each major section linked to from that page, I have already done some reconstruction and moved some pages.
I like it a lot better than the previous version.
A good page for anybody to help is the page http://en.opensuse.org/Howtos You can simply find Howto type articles currently in the wiki and link to them in the correct section, or because it is wiki, create links to howto articles that should exist. It might be enough to spur someone into writing a new article.
So join in and help, offer feedback...be constructive.
Well, then here we go: Can anything be done with the categories? I found this page "by accident": http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Browse and I'm thinking maybe something like that would be nice to a have a link to from the front page or the documentation start page.
Hello!
Am Sonntag, 7. Mai 2006 09:03 schrieb Andreas:
The most important sections (I believe) are downloads and documentation.
Maybe they can be placed somewhat more prominent on the front page.
What happened to http://en.opensuse.org/Frontpage_redesign?
Well, then here we go: Can anything be done with the categories? I found this page "by accident": http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Browse and I'm thinking maybe something like that would be nice to a have a link to from the front page or the documentation start page.
http://de.opensuse.org/Benutzerdokumentation_anders was my proposal of browsing categories. Yet I put them on the startpage as well, see http://de.opensuse.org/Startseite_translated.
Sven
On 5/7/06, Sven Burmeister sven.burmeister@gmx.net wrote:
Hello!
Am Sonntag, 7. Mai 2006 09:03 schrieb Andreas:
The most important sections (I believe) are downloads and documentation.
Maybe they can be placed somewhat more prominent on the front page.
What happened to http://en.opensuse.org/Frontpage_redesign?
I think it didn't quite gather quite enough momentum. I originally proposed it in the openSUSE meeting, and I must admit I haven't done a page myself.
It is a shame we couldn't get something done before release of 10.1 as with every release the traffic skyrockets on the site. The general structure of the wiki is of course just as important.
If you look at most distros, their front pages are in fact quite crap. ubuntu.com in some ways is very similar to opensuse.org, it looks like it was created on Day 1 of the project and not changed since.
Of course that doesn't mean we shouldn't try again with getting a better frontpage now that the latest release is over.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
Peter Flodin wrote:
I think it didn't quite gather quite enough momentum. I originally proposed it in the openSUSE meeting, and I must admit I haven't done a page myself.
glad you did what you did, this is part of the momentum :-) let's go ahead :-)
jdd
On Sunday 07 May 2006 06:42, Peter Flodin wrote:
I have started with http:\en.opensuse.org\documentation and will continue on each major section linked to from that page, I have already done some reconstruction and moved some pages.
No no no!
Stop using tables for layout design! Tables are NOT for layout...
This looks worse than the old page...
Graham Anderson wrote:
On Sunday 07 May 2006 06:42, Peter Flodin wrote:
I have started with http:\en.opensuse.org\documentation and will continue on each major section linked to from that page, I have already done some reconstruction and moved some pages.
No no no!
Stop using tables for layout design! Tables are NOT for layout...
This looks worse than the old page...
I don't see there is really problem with tables, but I don"t like the new layout
personally I made this on the french page
http://fr.opensuse.org/Documentation
it's much like the old page.
two things: * I don't think the "user documentation" page is so nice. links to pages of links... I don't like it too much
* I simplified Novell pages links because I discovered that the pages I give in my example (and there are simply smaller links than initial ones) are localized by Novell. On these links you have the page in your langage if available.
jdd
On Sunday 07 May 2006 14:09, jdd wrote:
I don't see there is really problem with tables, but I don"t like the new layout
Everyone should heed this warning!
I cannot stress enough the importance of leaving the design of an important and busy website to people who have *significant* web design experience. More harm than good will happen if people who obviously have no large or commercial website design experience continue to make arbitrary changes to the design of the opensuse website.
The documentation page layout is now *broken*. The 'Other languages' box now renders *below* the page footer in Firefox and probably on other browsers too.
Using tables for layout breaks accepted design principles for a few good reasons. Two of the most important reasons are as follows.
(1) The way the page may be rendered in different browsers on different platforms is usually broken by the wrong and excessive use of table layouts.
Visit the documentation page use the firefox view menu and go to 'Page Style' and then select 'No Style'. Now look at the way the page is rendered and scroll down the the table. See how most of the page scrolls sensibly in a top to bottom manner, and see how the table breaks this by spreading across the screen.
Now imagine someone visiting this page in a PDA or other small screen device. Or imagine how messy this will not look in a text only browser.
Using tables in this fashion breaks the design of a page for multiple platforms. There are CSS stylesheet attributes to facilitate these platforms and using tables for layout breaks this.
(2) Screen readers and other accessibility technologies get confused by table layouts.
This is probably the most important reason to *never* use tables for layout design.
Screen readers may incorrectly read back to the user information that's not properly presented in tables. What is worse is the screen reader may not even read any of the information to the user if the tables are nested.
Screen readers expect tables to contain tabular data, which not surprisingly is what tables are meant and designed to be used for, not layout designs.
Graham Anderson wrote:
On Sunday 07 May 2006 14:09, jdd wrote:
I don't see there is really problem with tables, but I don"t like the new layout
Everyone should heed this warning!
I cannot stress enough the importance of leaving the design of an important and busy website to people who have *significant* web design experience.
I can barely disagree more... a surprising high number of professional web sites are awfull, as any Linux user may know by direct experience
this don't mean we must do anything in any direction.
The documentation page layout is now *broken*. The 'Other languages' box now renders *below* the page footer in Firefox and probably on other browsers too.
this have nothing to do with the proposed documentation page. the "sidebar" (it's the mediawiki word for the left column) can only be modified by a sysadmin and is the same for all the pages, modulo some automatic parts like "toolsbox" and "other langages"
this said, I think also the sidebar _must_ be shortened and only meaning full entrys used in the menus.
Using tables for layout breaks accepted design principles for a few good reasons. Two of the most important reasons are as follows.
I wonder if you don't mix tables and frames. Frames are a powerfull layout system but largely deprecated for a variety of good (and bad) reasons.
Tables are the only way in mediawiki to make columns on a page or have images cleanly setup.
(1) The way the page may be rendered in different browsers on different platforms is usually broken by the wrong and excessive use of table layouts.
not true is tables are intelligently used (with relative width). "intelligence" mean, for me, "understanding". Many professional web designers don't understand what they do (usually they use frontpage and frontpage extensions - many others do a very good job and use vi :-).
Visit the documentation page use the firefox view menu and go to 'Page Style' and then select 'No Style'. Now look at the way the page is rendered and scroll down the the table. See how most of the page scrolls sensibly in a top to bottom manner, and see how the table breaks this by spreading across the screen.
anyway I don't like this page layout. We already have the sidebar, we can if it's absolutely necessary accomodate an other column, like the front page do, but not tables into tables like this
my solution: http://fr.opensuse.org/Documentation
is not that good :-(, but seems to me a better starting point
Now imagine someone visiting this page in a PDA or other small screen device.
honestly I don't think we can accomodate this. if we must, this needs special pages. mediawiki won't fit. (give a look at the source of any mediawiki page, it's a mess). A wiki is not the best choice for smart web pages :-(.
Or imagine how messy this will not look in a text only browser.
try my link with w3m. the sidebar uses lot of space (but this can't be avoided), but the general layout is acceptable
Screen readers may incorrectly read back to the user information that's not properly presented in tables. What is worse is the screen reader may not even read any of the information to the user if the tables are nested.
I know very well this problem (there are several visually impaired people in my local LUG). The solution should be to trigger the "printer" layout in mediawiki (remove the sidebar), but I don't know how to do this.
jdd
On 5/7/06, Graham Anderson graham.anderson@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 07 May 2006 14:09, jdd wrote:
I don't see there is really problem with tables, but I don"t like the new layout
Everyone should heed this warning!
I cannot stress enough the importance of leaving the design of an important and busy website to people who have *significant* web design experience. More harm than good will happen if people who obviously have no large or commercial website design experience continue to make arbitrary changes to the design of the opensuse website.
It is a wiki. People who have *significant* web design experience, can join in anytime. But if you look at the history there is quite a small number of people who have done most of the existing work on the wiki, working from a bare skeleton.
The design process of a wiki is to make the change, and then review by peers, like we are doing here. Significant structural changes are rare, and the pivotal pages tend towards stability, with a jolt every now and then.
The documentation page layout is now *broken*. The 'Other languages' box now renders *below* the page footer in Firefox and probably on other browsers too.
The documentation page is not broken. The Other Languages box is another matter...
Using tables for layout breaks accepted design principles for a few good reasons. Two of the most important reasons are as follows.
<SNIP comments about tables and usability>
All your crticism of tables are totally valid, and there is no dispute.
However the old Documentation page had a two-column table as well, and is only modifed. (I have to admit I introduced that table in my layout of the Documantation page last year).
I agree that we should replace my use of tables for layout. It is no defence that a lot of wiki including Wikipedia uses them extensively, especially for index and front pages.
This will also impact any front page redesign, as the suggestions I have seen use tables extensively.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
Hello!
Am Sonntag, 7. Mai 2006 14:54 schrieb Graham Anderson:
On Sunday 07 May 2006 06:42, Peter Flodin wrote:
I have started with http:\en.opensuse.org\documentation and will continue on each major section linked to from that page, I have already done some reconstruction and moved some pages.
No no no!
Stop using tables for layout design! Tables are NOT for layout...
This looks worse than the old page...
What are the reasons wikipedia uses tables?
Sven
On Sunday 07 May 2006 14:34, Sven Burmeister wrote:
What are the reasons wikipedia uses tables?
Sven
Using tables is a shortcut, unfortunately a bad one :(
There are many thousands of users that add content to wikipedia, most of them are probably unaware that using tables for layout is bad.
People use tables as a convenience to circumvent the limitations of the HTML/XHTML specifications.
Hi!
Am Sonntag, 7. Mai 2006 15:40 schrieb Graham Anderson:
Using tables is a shortcut, unfortunately a bad one :(
There are many thousands of users that add content to wikipedia, most of them are probably unaware that using tables for layout is bad.
People use tables as a convenience to circumvent the limitations of the HTML/XHTML specifications.
IMHO wikipedia is well known to all kinds of users, devs and normal users, so it might sense to have a similar way of presenting information, simply because people are used to it.
If the wikipedia-layout can be done using CSS, fair enough, if not, then it is CSS's fault not the designer's. I like to use CSS, yet I know that it can become quite tedious and has limitations, as you mentioned.
Sven
On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 04:18:34PM +0200, Sven Burmeister wrote:
IMHO wikipedia is well known to all kinds of users, devs and normal users, so it might sense to have a similar way of presenting information, simply because people are used to it.
There are plenty out there that seldom use wikipedia. I am one of them an dyet those few times I did I never saw such a site. Also even if 95% of the population is using someting, if it is wrong, it still is wrong.
houghi
Hi!
Am Sonntag, 7. Mai 2006 16:43 schrieb houghi:
There are plenty out there that seldom use wikipedia. I am one of them an dyet those few times I did I never saw such a site. Also even if 95% of the population is using someting, if it is wrong, it still is wrong.
Fair enough, so where is the same site, made with CSS only. If it is possible to do it another way, there you go, it's OSS. :) I have not seen that many proposals, so just criticising is not enough.
Sven
On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Hi!
Am Sonntag, 7. Mai 2006 16:43 schrieb houghi:
There are plenty out there that seldom use wikipedia. I am one of them an dyet those few times I did I never saw such a site. Also even if 95% of the population is using someting, if it is wrong, it still is wrong.
Fair enough, so where is the same site, made with CSS only. If it is possible to do it another way, there you go, it's OSS. :) I have not seen that many proposals, so just criticising is not enough.
I have changed the layout. http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation This so it is more consistent with the rest of the Wiki.
houghi
Hi!
Am Montag, 8. Mai 2006 07:56 schrieb houghi:
Fair enough, so where is the same site, made with CSS only. If it is possible to do it another way, there you go, it's OSS. :) I have not seen that many proposals, so just criticising is not enough.
I have changed the layout. http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation This so it is more consistent with the rest of the Wiki.
Would you please construct the wikipedia-startingpage using CSS. Consistency with the rest of the wiki was not really the task, since this thread is about changing, the current layout and not bringing it back.
I still think that wikipedia is the most known wiki and hence the layout most people, especially non-experts, know. So even if using tables is not good, one should re-create that layout, but using CSS.
Sven
Sven
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 10:05:51AM +0200, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Would you please construct the wikipedia-startingpage using CSS.
Is this directed at me or at everybody?
Consistency with the rest of the wiki was not really the task, since this thread is about changing, the current layout and not bringing it back.
For me it is about consitencey.
I still think that wikipedia is the most known wiki and hence the layout most people, especially non-experts, know. So even if using tables is not good, one should re-create that layout, but using CSS.
I see no real problem with the layout as it is. Content, yes, but not layout.
houghi
Sven Burmeister wrote:
Hi!
Am Montag, 8. Mai 2006 07:56 schrieb houghi:
Fair enough, so where is the same site, made with CSS only. If it is possible to do it another way, there you go, it's OSS. :) I have not seen that many proposals, so just criticising is not enough.
I have changed the layout. http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation This so it is more consistent with the rest of the Wiki.
Would you please construct the wikipedia-startingpage using CSS. Consistency with the rest of the wiki was not really the task, since this thread is about changing, the current layout and not bringing it back.
I still think that wikipedia is the most known wiki and hence the layout most people, especially non-experts, know. So even if using tables is not good, one should re-create that layout, but using CSS.
I think there is some misunderstanding here.
There _is_ a CSS, choosen by Novell initially. We may (I don't know for sure) change the CSS for one page or an other, but it's certainly not a good idea.
This is the green backscreen, sections title colors (this one should be enhanced ASAP, the diffrenet titles are too much the same)
this is also the page layout with tags at the end of the page (Novell's skin)
for this we can ask for changes, reasonably, but can't change them, even at a sysop level. This needs admin rights on the server.
So we must stay with this.
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link. I made them smaller in my page, so the mistake if much less to happen.
http://fr.opensuse.org/Documentation_par_les_utilisateurs
We can also decide not to use tables on some major pages, but this could lead to very long pages, wich is not nice or "hashed" pages (pages cut in pieces) not so nice either.
jdd
On 5/8/06, jdd jdd@dodin.org wrote:
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link.
My page did not have this issue and all icons would link to the appropriate page.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
Peter Flodin wrote:
On 5/8/06, jdd jdd@dodin.org wrote:
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link.
My page did not have this issue and all icons would link to the appropriate page.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
I just tested it and the icons opened the image, not the link
the solution at this problem proposed on mediawiki are all ugly AFAIK (I would be glad to have a clue :-) jdd
http://fr.opensuse.org/Plan_du_wiki
we could also have a page like this - sort of wikimap. but needs a maintainer
we could also have a better "opensuse:browse" page like this: http://fr.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Liste_des_cat%C3%A9gories
I used the browse page, but added on top the most important categories with they description content
but this page also needs a maintainer
jdd
On 5/8/06, jdd jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Peter Flodin wrote:
On 5/8/06, jdd jdd@dodin.org wrote:
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link.
My page did not have this issue and all icons would link to the appropriate page.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
I just tested it and the icons opened the image, not the link
the solution at this problem proposed on mediawiki are all ugly AFAIK (I would be glad to have a clue :-) jdd
That's what templates are for, to hide complexity and ugliness.
If you look at this version http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Documentation&oldid=18742 the icons link and even have the correct mouseover.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin.
Peter Flodin wrote:
On 5/8/06, jdd jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Peter Flodin wrote:
On 5/8/06, jdd jdd@dodin.org wrote:
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link.
My page did not have this issue and all icons would link to the appropriate page.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
I just tested it and the icons opened the image, not the link
the solution at this problem proposed on mediawiki are all ugly AFAIK (I would be glad to have a clue :-) jdd
That's what templates are for, to hide complexity and ugliness.
If you look at this version http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Documentation&oldid=18742 the icons link and even have the correct mouseover.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin.
pflodo, the template wizard :-) I'll get a look at that. I see that the template don't display the same on mozilla and konqueror, but this may not hurt thanks jdd
I added to the documentation links to keyword search (search engines and categories) and made the icon much smallers
feel free to edit if you don't like it.
jdd
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:40:38PM +0200, jdd wrote:
I added to the documentation links to keyword search (search engines and categories) and made the icon much smallers
feel free to edit if you don't like it.
I suddenly miss a lot of "User Documentation" There are 10 items and I only see seven. Is there a reason you removed 3? I can imagine that you removed the 'New users start here', but then it must be added completely.
I also like 'User made documentation' better then 'User documentation, because I think all documentation is for users.
houghi
houghi wrote:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:40:38PM +0200, jdd wrote:
I added to the documentation links to keyword search (search engines and categories) and made the icon much smallers
feel free to edit if you don't like it.
I suddenly miss a lot of "User Documentation" There are 10 items and I only see seven. Is there a reason you removed 3? I can imagine that you removed the 'New users start here', but then it must be added completely.
I also like 'User made documentation' better then 'User documentation, because I think all documentation is for users.
houghi
pflodo passed after me and did this, not me :-) jdd
On 5/9/06, houghi houghi@houghi.org wrote:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:40:38PM +0200, jdd wrote:
I added to the documentation links to keyword search (search engines and categories) and made the icon much smallers
feel free to edit if you don't like it.
I suddenly miss a lot of "User Documentation" There are 10 items and I only see seven. Is there a reason you removed 3? I can imagine that you removed the 'New users start here', but then it must be added completely.
Why 'must' they? The whole point is to structure a page to be better, in that case there is no such rule.
The only conversation that needs to be had is what a complete newbie to SUSE Linux needs to read first, and that goes in the Start Here section.
I removed link to 'Projects' as that is now linked to from sidebar. I moved Development Doco to it's own section I removed Artwork, as it is not really doco, but as I haven't found a good place to put it, it should probably go back in.
I also like 'User made documentation' better then 'User documentation, because I think all documentation is for users.
That is a bit of a silly argument. It is common to have User Guides, Administration Guides, Developer Guides. Each one is clear who it is aimed at. It doesn't matter that a Developer is also a user.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 07:48:33AM +1000, Peter Flodin wrote:
I removed link to 'Projects' as that is now linked to from sidebar. I moved Development Doco to it's own section I removed Artwork, as it is not really doco, but as I haven't found a good place to put it, it should probably go back in.
OK, clear. Perhaps also the PPC stuf needs to go on the same page. For the last, make something called 'various'.
I also like 'User made documentation' better then 'User documentation, because I think all documentation is for users.
That is a bit of a silly argument. It is common to have User Guides, Administration Guides, Developer Guides. Each one is clear who it is aimed at. It doesn't matter that a Developer is also a user.
I see it in comparison the the Novell documentation. That is also User documentation.
houghi
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 11:56:22AM +0200, jdd wrote:
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link. I made them smaller in my page, so the mistake if much less to happen.
I liked that and tried to do that as well. It seems I can't use the sime icons and I was a bit too lazy to make new icons.
houghi
houghi wrote:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 11:56:22AM +0200, jdd wrote:
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link. I made them smaller in my page, so the mistake if much less to happen.
I liked that and tried to do that as well. It seems I can't use the sime icons and I was a bit too lazy to make new icons.
houghi
files are already there (same name than before, but 24px- in front of the name
I wasn't able to resize the image with |24px]], don't know why jdd
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 06:21:41PM +0200, jdd wrote:
houghi wrote:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 11:56:22AM +0200, jdd wrote:
All other is, for example, the size of the icons. I said long time ago than the icons are _much_ too large, given if one clic on then it pens the icon and not the link. I made them smaller in my page, so the mistake if much less to happen.
I liked that and tried to do that as well. It seems I can't use the sime icons and I was a bit too lazy to make new icons.
houghi
files are already there (same name than before, but 24px- in front of the name
I wasn't able to resize the image with |24px]], don't know why jdd
I tried both and it did not work. Strange. I even copied and pasted it from the French page, so as not to have an error in spelling. Nothing.
houghi
houghi wrote:
I tried both and it did not work. Strange. I even copied and pasted it from the French page, so as not to have an error in spelling. Nothing.
but the english documentation page _has_ them, here an excerp:
|- |[[Image:25px-Icon-wifi.png]] |[[Hardware]]<br><small>Supported platforms, hardware compatibility lists, tweaking, optimizing, and troubleshooting.</small>
jdd
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 07:28:33PM +0200, jdd wrote:
houghi wrote:
I tried both and it did not work. Strange. I even copied and pasted it from the French page, so as not to have an error in spelling. Nothing.
but the english documentation page _has_ them, here an excerp:
|- |[[Image:25px-Icon-wifi.png]] |[[Hardware]]<br><small>Supported platforms, hardware compatibility lists, tweaking, optimizing, and troubleshooting.</small>
I even did a copy and paste from the fr page. |valign="top"|[[Image:25px-Icon-info.png]][[/Commencez ici|Commencez ici]]<br><small>Si vous ne connaissez pas openSUSE ou Linux en général, visitez d'abord cette page.</small>
That also did not work.
houghi
On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 01:54:45PM +0100, Graham Anderson wrote:
On Sunday 07 May 2006 06:42, Peter Flodin wrote:
I have started with http:\en.opensuse.org\documentation and will continue on each major section linked to from that page, I have already done some reconstruction and moved some pages.
No no no!
Stop using tables for layout design! Tables are NOT for layout...
This looks worse than the old page...
Indeed. What is the best way to set it back to what it was? Is there a way to put it back to version X? Would be easier then editing the ugly layout by hand.
houghi
houghi wrote:
On Sun, May 07, 2006 at 01:54:45PM +0100, Graham Anderson wrote:
On Sunday 07 May 2006 06:42, Peter Flodin wrote:
I have started with http:\en.opensuse.org\documentation and will continue on each major section linked to from that page, I have already done some reconstruction and moved some pages.
No no no!
Stop using tables for layout design! Tables are NOT for layout...
This looks worse than the old page...
Indeed. What is the best way to set it back to what it was? Is there a way to put it back to version X? Would be easier then editing the ugly layout by hand.
houghi
it's always possible to go back, see "history".
_But_ before doing so, maybe it's good to think at what could be done.
I think pflodo was right moving, even if I wouldn't have done the move in that sense. We where steady too long.
May be stay here for the moment and following the front page redesign discussion. when this will be done (give a week?), we will go ahead
jdd
-
Andreas -
Graham Anderson -
houghi -
jdd -
Peter Flodin -
Sven Burmeister