It seems the layout have been fiwed. nice. I keep thinking that the two (left and right) column are not well balanced. the upper left logo having the same size than the column below, seems to be part of the column. So the left column seems to begin at the top of the page. on the contrary, the right column begin at the same level as the text of the page (in fact this column is part of the page's text :-). If no major layout change is due, I suggest to: * make a larger logo to make it significantly different from the sidebar * change the aspect of the three upper links to make them stacked one below the other, to have them balance the logo size * tag the sidebar to make it begin at the same level as the text. Note that we can't have a real influence on the bottom of the page, too related to the browser's defaults something like this: http://en.opensuse.org/Frontpage_redesign/The_Present_Status_Breakdown#Minim... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On 2006-07-11 15:50:29 +0200, jdd wrote:
* make a larger logo to make it significantly different from the sidebar * change the aspect of the three upper links to make them stacked one below the other, to have them balance the logo size * tag the sidebar to make it begin at the same level as the text.
uhm... no. the logo can only be as wide as the sidebar. and i dont think a vertical menu on the right side is good. i would like to reject those suggestions. other oppinions? darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 11 July 2006 15:50, jdd wrote: Hi,
It seems the layout have been fiwed. nice.
I keep thinking that the two (left and right) column are not well balanced.
hmm. The right "column" never was intended to be an "antagonist" of the left column - it is rather three boxes with content that changes frequently. Perhaps adding a bit of whitespace on top and bottom of the middle box will help to make this more clear?
the upper left logo having the same size than the column below, seems to be part of the column. So the left column seems to begin at the top of the page.
Well, IMHO this place is just a natural fit for a logo ;-). Making it bigger or smaller than the column will break the look and feel of the page. But I guess this is a matter of taste.
on the contrary, the right column begin at the same level as the text of the page (in fact this column is part of the page's text :-).
If no major layout change is due, I suggest to:
* make a larger logo to make it significantly different from the sidebar * change the aspect of the three upper links to make them stacked one below the other, to have them balance the logo size * tag the sidebar to make it begin at the same level as the text.
?? (don't quite understand the last issue in the list)
Note that we can't have a real influence on the bottom of the page, too related to the browser's defaults
?? (Don't nderstand that, too) There are other proposals to change the layout of the FrontPage, too. Question is, how do we proceed in this discussion? How can we speed things up? Now that I have finally finished the new skin, I am planning to get more involved in the front page layout discussion (at least I will be the one to implement template and css changes and the front page ;-)) ), hope that's OK for you. -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.novell.com/ "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
the upper left logo having the same size than the column below, seems to be part of the column. So the left column seems to begin at the top of the page.
Well, IMHO this place is just a natural fit for a logo ;-).
take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and you will see the logo is clearly idependant from the sidebar. May be this is more for a colour question than size, but the effect is very different from our
* tag the sidebar to make it begin at the same level as the text.
still look at the wikipedia example. The "navigation" word (top of the sidebar) is nearly at the same level than "overview, searching, editing" that marks the beginning of the page.
Note that we can't have a real influence on the bottom of the page, too related to the browser's defaults
?? (Don't nderstand that, too)
any browser give the layout it wants from the same code; At the top of the page, there is not too much difference from a browser to an other, but as you go deeper in the page the differences grow. So we can be reasonably sure of what the user will see on top, but not really on the bottom.
There are other proposals to change the layout of the FrontPage, too. Question is, how do we proceed in this discussion? How can we speed things up?
may be serialize questions. (solve them one after the other :-)
Now that I have finally finished the new skin, I am planning to get more involved in the front page layout discussion (at least I will be the one to implement template and css changes and the front page ;-)) ), hope that's OK for you.
very good :-) In my opinion there are two quite different problems: 1 do we need an international hub for "opensuse.org" and "www.opensuse.org" URL? If the answer is yes as it should be (I agree that english is the proeminent language, but default sending to english seems a bit too much), what should we have (for example a la wikipedia) 2 what must be the practical Front page? I think we must keep in mind that we use mediawiki and that mediawiki was (and still is) done for wikipedia. Any too large change from the wikipedia point of view could make updates a problem. If we still look at the wikipedia page, we see that the sidebar is made of different parts, well separated on wikipedia (and mediawiki defaults), not visible at all on opensuse. -the wiki parts (content menus:download, communicate...) -the tools (toolbox), that are only a wiki/web use. In wikipedia, for example, the search is just in top of the toolbox, because it's a tool content oriented :-) -the interwiki links So what are the Front page parts? * the logo * the top line (only user oriented on wikipedia) * the edit link line (on top on wikipedia, bottom for opensuse) * the sidebar already discussed * the page title. the page title of the front page is not any title. On wikipedia it's enhanced (sentence, links) On opensuse, the front page title is very alone in a large blanc space. To begin, can we ask for an important question: #do we need a complete layout change or only small modifications of the actual one? I vote for only small modifications and you? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 11 July 2006 17:23, jdd wrote: Hi,
Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
Well, IMHO this place is just a natural fit for a logo ;-).
take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
and you will see the logo is clearly idependant from the sidebar. May be this is more for a colour question than size, but the effect is very different from our
yes, but I think it is because of the background that is different from th content/navigation boxes and, whatsmore, because it is "3D" rather than being "flat" like the OpenSUSE logo.
* tag the sidebar to make it begin at the same level as the text.
still look at the wikipedia example. The "navigation" word (top of the sidebar) is nearly at the same level than "overview, searching, editing" that marks the beginning of the page.
Well, that depends on the language - it's different in the French and German Wikipedia, for instance. If the text should begin at the same level than the left navigation, we would have to drop the top navigation (with the three links) - otherwise we would add a considerable amount of whitespace to the page top.
Note that we can't have a real influence on the bottom of the page, too related to the browser's defaults
?? (Don't nderstand that, too)
any browser give the layout it wants from the same code; At the top of the page, there is not too much difference from a browser to an other, but as you go deeper in the page the differences grow. So we can be reasonably sure of what the user will see on top, but not really on the bottom.
Hmm, this is probably a matter of the number of hacks you implement for the different browsers. Fortunately the MediaWiki themes implement lots of them ;-) (this was one of the reasons why we did the monobook based redesign of the skin).
There are other proposals to change the layout of the FrontPage, too. Question is, how do we proceed in this discussion? How can we speed things up?
may be serialize questions. (solve them one after the other :-)
Sounds good.
very good :-)
In my opinion there are two quite different problems:
1 do we need an international hub for "opensuse.org" and "www.opensuse.org" URL? If the answer is yes as it should be (I agree that english is the proeminent language, but default sending to english seems a bit too much), what should we have (for example a la wikipedia)
2 what must be the practical Front page?
Here we have two different problems again (IMHO): - content (e.g, which links should be present in the navigation) - layout
I think we must keep in mind that we use mediawiki and that mediawiki was (and still is) done for wikipedia. Any too large change from the wikipedia point of view could make updates a problem.
Agreed. As mentioned above: with the new skin we are very much "monobook compliant". We are using all the monobook CSS - the opensuse styles are just additions (very few) or overwrite monobook styles. The template is as similar to the original monobook template as possible.
If we still look at the wikipedia page, we see that the sidebar is made of different parts, well separated on wikipedia (and mediawiki defaults), not visible at all on opensuse.
Although not visible, it is exactly the same layout as on Wikipedia - only the CSS and the content is different.
So what are the Front page parts?
* the logo
with reference to http://en.opensuse.org/Frontpage_redesign/The_Present_Status_Breakdown#Logo I am sorry to say that changing the logo is no option. It's a logo and logos do not change (although they "evolve" sometimes ;-) ). We could probably discuss adding some gimmicks on special occasions (like Google does), but in general the logo will stay as it is.
* the top line (only user oriented on wikipedia)
It was intended to allow quick and easy access to important content that is not necessarily present in the left navigation. I would vote for replacing these links with something that is not present in the left navigation.
* the edit link line (on top on wikipedia, bottom for opensuse) * the sidebar already discussed * the page title.
the page title of the front page is not any title. On wikipedia it's enhanced (sentence, links)
Also depends on the language - again fr and de have single headlines on the front page.
On opensuse, the front page title is very alone in a large blanc space.
That depends on the length of the headline. On http://en.opensuse.org/Frontpage_redesign/The_Present_Status_Breakdown#Logo the headline fills much of the space ;-))
To begin, can we ask for an important question:
#do we need a complete layout change or only small modifications of the actual one?
I vote for only small modifications and you?
Me too, otherwise the considerable amount of work I have put into the new skin would be vain - and we would probably get away from Monobook again. -- Regards Frank (who will be back not until Monday) Frank Sundermeyer, SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.novell.com/ "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On Tuesday 11 July 2006 17:23, jdd wrote:
Hi,
Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
Well, IMHO this place is just a natural fit for a logo ;-). take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
and you will see the logo is clearly idependant from the sidebar. May be this is more for a colour question than size, but the effect is very different from our
yes, but I think it is because of the background that is different from th content/navigation boxes and, whatsmore, because it is "3D" rather than being "flat" like the OpenSUSE logo.
* tag the sidebar to make it begin at the same level as the text. still look at the wikipedia example. The "navigation" word (top of the sidebar) is nearly at the same level than "overview, searching, editing" that marks the beginning of the page.
Well, that depends on the language - it's different in the French and German Wikipedia, for instance. If the text should begin at the same level than the left navigation, we would have to drop the top navigation (with the three links) - otherwise we would add a considerable amount of whitespace to the page top.
Note that we can't have a real influence on the bottom of the page, too related to the browser's defaults ?? (Don't nderstand that, too) any browser give the layout it wants from the same code; At the top of the page, there is not too much difference from a browser to an other, but as you go deeper in the page the differences grow. So we can be reasonably sure of what the user will see on top, but not really on the bottom.
Hmm, this is probably a matter of the number of hacks you implement for the different browsers. Fortunately the MediaWiki themes implement lots of them ;-) (this was one of the reasons why we did the monobook based redesign of the skin).
There are other proposals to change the layout of the FrontPage, too. Question is, how do we proceed in this discussion? How can we speed things up? may be serialize questions. (solve them one after the other :-)
Sounds good.
very good :-)
In my opinion there are two quite different problems:
1 do we need an international hub for "opensuse.org" and "www.opensuse.org" URL? If the answer is yes as it should be (I agree that english is the proeminent language, but default sending to english seems a bit too much), what should we have (for example a la wikipedia)
Default to send to en.opensuse.org has point if visitor doesn't select anything in certain amount of time that is required to read the page. Next, send page with note that redirect is going to happen, giving a visitor chance to stay where is by canceling redirect and load page without time out, speed up redirect, or if again action is missing wait for second timeout and redirect.
2 what must be the practical Front page?
Here we have two different problems again (IMHO): - content (e.g, which links should be present in the navigation) - layout
I think we must keep in mind that we use mediawiki and that mediawiki was (and still is) done for wikipedia. Any too large change from the wikipedia point of view could make updates a problem.
Agreed. As mentioned above: with the new skin we are very much "monobook compliant". We are using all the monobook CSS - the opensuse styles are just additions (very few) or overwrite monobook styles. The template is as similar to the original monobook template as possible.
If we still look at the wikipedia page, we see that the sidebar is made of different parts, well separated on wikipedia (and mediawiki defaults), not visible at all on opensuse.
Although not visible, it is exactly the same layout as on Wikipedia - only the CSS and the content is different.
So what are the Front page parts?
* the logo
with reference to http://en.opensuse.org/Frontpage_redesign/The_Present_Status_Breakdown#Logo
I am sorry to say that changing the logo is no option. It's a logo and logos do not change (although they "evolve" sometimes ;-) ). We could probably discuss adding some gimmicks on special occasions (like Google does), but in general the logo will stay as it is.
Evolve, is nice way to define that the door is still open for the genius that will come with some irresistible proposal :-) A special occasion logos are attractive way to tell people:"We care about things important to you." Graphic refreshment is good secondary effect.
* the top line (only user oriented on wikipedia)
It was intended to allow quick and easy access to important content that is not necessarily present in the left navigation. I would vote for replacing these links with something that is not present in the left navigation.
Thanks!
* the edit link line (on top on wikipedia, bottom for opensuse) * the sidebar already discussed * the page title.
the page title of the front page is not any title. On wikipedia it's enhanced (sentence, links)
Also depends on the language - again fr and de have single headlines on the front page.
On opensuse, the front page title is very alone in a large blanc space.
That depends on the length of the headline. On http://en.opensuse.org/Frontpage_redesign/The_Present_Status_Breakdown#Logo the headline fills much of the space ;-))
You mean, left space :-)
To begin, can we ask for an important question:
#do we need a complete layout change or only small modifications of the actual one?
I vote for only small modifications and you?
Me too, otherwise the considerable amount of work I have put into the new skin would be vain - and we would probably get away from Monobook again.
I looked not to disturb a lot present graphic layout which fit good in idea not to change skin. The image is just first draft of top half of the web page. The second half is mostly as is. The central portion is still untouched and there is probably some space for improvement. -- Regards, Rajko. Visit http://en.opensuse.org/MiniSUSE --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
I was doing translation of the basic "How to participate" page, when I came accross the first paragraph about "Skills required". What is the purpose of the changes, like on this page. There is one paragraph added, the rest of the paragraphs are re-ordered. Is this some kind of a hidden plot, to make the job harder on translators? :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Orn E. Hansen wrote:
I was doing translation of the basic "How to participate" page, when I came accross the first paragraph about "Skills required".
What is the purpose of the changes, like on this page. There is one paragraph added, the rest of the paragraphs are re-ordered. Is this some kind of a hidden plot, to make the job harder on translators? :-)
Hi Orn, change in layout is minimal. What you see is change in article, and that is normal on the wiki. Translating wiki it is not easy task. Your translation effort is welcome, but for now as we are using en.opensuse.org there are some rules how to mark translations: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Translation_Guide You are from Sweden, is this what you are looking for? http://sv.opensuse.org/Välkommen_till_openSUSE.org -- Regards, Rajko. Visit http://en.opensuse.org/MiniSUSE --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
lördaginn 15 juli 2006 01:43 skrev Rajko M:
You are from Sweden, is this what you are looking for? http://sv.opensuse.org/Välkommen_till_openSUSE.org
I am living in Sweden, yes ... hope it's ok by you that I'm living in a different country than I was born in. After all, we do originate from Scandinavia, and our history here including sweden, goes back about 6 thousands years. Hope it's ok, that we go to our roots once in a while to visit our kin... and maybe even live and die here, amongst our ancestors. :-) Maybe if I promise to "not" raid on you "honest" folks and turn you into Borgs? :-) Already done the basic translations to Icelandic. Just found the first paragraph on the mentioned page hilariously politically-INcorrect, and don't see the purpose in re-ordering the rest. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Orn E. Hansen wrote:
Already done the basic translations to Icelandic. Just found the first paragraph on the mentioned page hilariously politically-INcorrect, and don't see the purpose in re-ordering the rest.
can you be more precise? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
söndaginn 16 juli 2006 17:38 skrev jdd:
can you be more precise?
jdd
Well, let me try and explain ... I maybe a total moron, and have absolutely no skills whatsover ... but what WE (the human race) all have in common, is that we are ALL convinced of our individual superiority. Now, reading a statement that even someone who doesn't have any skills whatsoever is needed, after which there is a smiley (indicating irony or sarcasm), it becomes hard to read. First of all, as an egoistic human being, I'm not going to identify myself as "skillless" and I got my first Playstation when I was 5 ... I'm certainly not a newbie (sarcasm). Secondly, if I'm unable to get any "project" inside the community except "reading" documents ... does that mean you consider me to be a clueless, skilless newbie? Why? Because I don't speak chinese? Personally, I'd say a "konqi" image, in a "Uncle Sam ... I need YOU!" style graphics would be far more effective. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
On 7/17/06, Orn E. Hansen
I maybe a total moron, and have absolutely no skills whatsover ... but what WE (the human race) all have in common, is that we are ALL convinced of our individual superiority. Now, reading a statement that even someone who doesn't have any skills whatsoever is needed, after which there is a smiley (indicating irony or sarcasm), it becomes hard to read. First of all, as an egoistic human being, I'm not going to identify myself as "skillless" and I got my first Playstation when I was 5 ... I'm certainly not a newbie (sarcasm). Secondly, if I'm unable to get any "project" inside the community except "reading" documents ... does that mean you consider me to be a clueless, skilless newbie? Why? Because I don't speak chinese?
Personally, I'd say a "konqi" image, in a "Uncle Sam ... I need YOU!" style graphics would be far more effective.
Orn, I agree with you that the paragraph can be written better, but I don't completely follow all your threads of arguments and/or objections above. The wiki paragraph is trying to say that no matter what skills you have, there is something for you to do in the openSUSE project, and all you need is the will to help. So, when you need a break from translating webpages that keep changing, why don't you rewrite that paragraph and maybe add that graphic. med vänlig hälsning, Pflodo Peter Flodin
Peter Flodin wrote:
So, when you need a break from translating webpages that keep changing, why don't you rewrite that paragraph and maybe add that graphic.
so far so good. I'm not native english speaking and I have often difficulties making my words clear (notice: this is also true in my native french :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
Orn E. Hansen wrote:
lördaginn 15 juli 2006 01:43 skrev Rajko M:
You are from Sweden, is this what you are looking for? http://sv.opensuse.org/Välkommen_till_openSUSE.org
I am living in Sweden, yes ... hope it's ok by you that I'm living in a different country than I was born in.
I can't have any objections to people moving around, because I moved a lot.
After all, we do originate from Scandinavia, and our history here including sweden, goes back about 6 thousands years.
Hope it's ok, that we go to our roots once in a while to visit our kin... and maybe even live and die here, amongst our ancestors. :-) Maybe if I promise to "not" raid on you "honest" folks and turn you into Borgs? :-)
I've seen welcome page translation after I sent mail with link to Swedish wiki. In translation I've seen you mentioned Icelandic, but it was to late, and I skipped correction.
Already done the basic translations to Icelandic. Just found the first paragraph on the mentioned page hilariously politically-INcorrect, and don't see the purpose in re-ordering the rest.
Major reason for mail was the way you are doing translations, without language prefix in the title. It is little bit crowded on en.opensuse.org this days and marking translation properly helps a lot other editors and administrators. That was the reason for the link to: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Translation_Guide The changes, you are complaining about, what is it exactly? -- Regards, Rajko. Visit http://en.opensuse.org/MiniSUSE --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki-help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Frank Sundermeyer -
jdd -
Marcus Rueckert -
Orn E. Hansen -
Peter Flodin -
Rajko M