[opensuse-wiki] OpenSuSE's wiki and Fedora's wiki
Hey OpenSuSE team! We recently switched over to using mediawiki and are going to be implementing a translated wiki soon. I was wondering if there's any documentation on how yours is setup. At present we're testing the same way wikimedia has theirs setup. What do you all think of your translated wiki? Good? Bad? -Mike --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 02 July 2008 15:59:59 Mike McGrath wrote:
Hey OpenSuSE team! We recently switched over to using mediawiki and are
Welcome to the club! :-)
going to be implementing a translated wiki soon. I was wondering if there's any documentation on how yours is setup. At present we're testing the same way wikimedia has theirs setup.
Yes, wikipedia is also a guide for us. We have our skin public, but i guess it's not really usable for you :-) But maybe you will find some nice things in our skin, like we solved the interwiki language links.
What do you all think of your translated wiki? Good? Bad?
hmm ... i have to go now, i will say something more about this tomorrow. -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
On Wednesday 02 July 2008 15:59:59 Mike McGrath wrote:
Hey OpenSuSE team! We recently switched over to using mediawiki and are
Welcome to the club! :-)
going to be implementing a translated wiki soon. I was wondering if there's any documentation on how yours is setup. At present we're testing the same way wikimedia has theirs setup.
Yes, wikipedia is also a guide for us. We have our skin public, but i guess it's not really usable for you :-) But maybe you will find some nice things in our skin, like we solved the interwiki language links.
Cool, NigleJ ("G" on IRC) has been getting our stuff all setup. I'm curious about the interwiki language links. -Mike --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Martin Lasarsch a écrit :
What do you all think of your translated wiki? Good? Bad?
hmm ... i have to go now, i will say something more about this tomorrow.
As french wiki sysop, I have to say that much work have been done in this direction. A significant part is on the way: there are two main problems: * the main (en) wiki is cluttered by page in the way of being translated *before* the localized wiki is open. That is, for example, pages prefixed "FR" before the fr.opensuse... ever exist. The best solution, to be released soon (I hope, I'm not involved in the work) is to have a "babel.opensuse.org" wiki for all the such pages (->future wikis). * keeping the translated pages in sync. Using for the translated pages a page with the very same name that the english page have (with a redirect to the real translated page) makes it easy to find all the various translation by the way of interwiki links, but need much work for the localized wiki writers. Syncing the pages *after* the initial translation is a nightmare I don't know a solution yet jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 02 July 2008 19:18:32 jdd wrote:
Martin Lasarsch a écrit :
What do you all think of your translated wiki? Good? Bad?
hmm ... i have to go now, i will say something more about this tomorrow.
* keeping the translated pages in sync. Using for the translated pages a page with the very same name that the english page have (with a redirect to the real translated page) makes it easy to find all the various translation by the way of interwiki links, but need much work for the localized wiki writers. Syncing the pages *after* the initial translation is a nightmare I don't know a solution yet
yes, this is the biggest problem. I saw it again when with the 11.0 update. On many wikis is a different version of the "source" page in english. You could argue that this is ok as long the content is nearly the same, and i'm not really sure ... of course the language maintainers should have some freedom what they are doing. When i start a new language wiki i create all translated pages with the english name first and move them afterwards. This might be an option for a small set of pages, but not for a whole wiki imho. Yes, we need a better solution. I'm just waiting to have the new wiki version on our staging server to look a little deeper into it. What is needed is a tool to check interwiki links and updates. And we are not the only wiki who have these kind of problems. Look at wikipedia, at least the german and english articles are most of the times not in sync at all (content wise). -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Martin Lasarsch a écrit :
And we are not the only wiki who have these kind of problems. Look at wikipedia, at least the german and english articles are most of the times not in sync at all (content wise).
sure... if you got a managable solution, many people will be glad (not only opensuse :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
On Wednesday 02 July 2008 19:18:32 jdd wrote:
Martin Lasarsch a écrit :
What do you all think of your translated wiki? Good? Bad?
hmm ... i have to go now, i will say something more about this tomorrow.
* keeping the translated pages in sync. Using for the translated pages a page with the very same name that the english page have (with a redirect to the real translated page) makes it easy to find all the various translation by the way of interwiki links, but need much work for the localized wiki writers. Syncing the pages *after* the initial translation is a nightmare I don't know a solution yet
yes, this is the biggest problem. I saw it again when with the 11.0 update. On many wikis is a different version of the "source" page in english. You could argue that this is ok as long the content is nearly the same, and i'm not really sure ... of course the language maintainers should have some freedom what they are doing.
I'm afraid we're going to run into this as well. Is the entire OpenSuSE wiki translated or just specific pages? Fedora's wiki is pretty old and has a lot of valid good content, but also a lot of forgotten content. Somewhere around 10,000 pages. I really can't imagine the whole thing getting translated. -Mike
On Thursday 03 July 2008 15:35:41 Mike McGrath wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
On Wednesday 02 July 2008 19:18:32 jdd wrote:
Martin Lasarsch a écrit :
What do you all think of your translated wiki? Good? Bad?
hmm ... i have to go now, i will say something more about this tomorrow.
* keeping the translated pages in sync. Using for the translated pages a page with the very same name that the english page have (with a redirect to the real translated page) makes it easy to find all the various translation by the way of interwiki links, but need much work for the localized wiki writers. Syncing the pages *after* the initial translation is a nightmare I don't know a solution yet
yes, this is the biggest problem. I saw it again when with the 11.0 update. On many wikis is a different version of the "source" page in english. You could argue that this is ok as long the content is nearly the same, and i'm not really sure ... of course the language maintainers should have some freedom what they are doing.
I'm afraid we're going to run into this as well. Is the entire OpenSuSE wiki translated or just specific pages? Fedora's wiki is pretty old and has a lot of valid good content, but also a lot of forgotten content. Somewhere around 10,000 pages. I really can't imagine the whole thing getting translated.
Right, this will probably never happen. Imho it's a good time to get rid of the old content, we did the same thing when we startet the wiki and converted our Supportdatabase to it. I killed all articles which are about a not supported (old) version and have no information which might be still usefull ... when i was not sure i kept it. But keep an backup, some users might not agree with your decisions :-) How we do it:It depends on the mainainer of the wiki, we only want the main pages, which are 10-20. Everything else is a plus, and there are maintainers which are translating much more, but you can't bet on it. -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Mike McGrath a écrit :
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
I'm afraid we're going to run into this as well. Is the entire OpenSuSE wiki translated or just specific pages?
when I started the french wiki, I spent 6 month translating as much as I could, to "start the movement". Then I mostly stopped translating to manage users. But other are doing a good job now. the problem there is than it's nearly impossible to hope to see original french (for example) pages be translated to english, and not anybody can write in an other language than his own (read is easier) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 03 July 2008 09:08:12 am jdd wrote:
the problem there is than it's nearly impossible to see original french (for example) pages be translated to english. Not everybody can write in another language than his own (read is easier)
That's true. My example is article about Midnight Commander picked up from German wiki. It one out of probably many. Though, we can do something about it. Put [[Category:Original French]] on page that is written in your language only and let someone that reads French translate. I had guy that would like to use Russian as a base. That should be an option for translations. I guess that babel.opensuse.org can enable such ways around. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. a écrit :
Though, we can do something about it. Put [[Category:Original French]] on page that is written in your language only and let someone that reads French translate.
an interesting enhanceent that was discussed sometime ago (I don't know if it is worked on) should be to have at the bottom of the edit window buttons to insert categories, at least the most important ones like the one you speak of. as so most writer could add one without creating by mistake a new category a category "not yet categorised" should be inserted automatically in each new edit windows, as a default (editable) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 04 July 2008 01:56:14 am jdd wrote:
Rajko M. a écrit :
Though, we can do something about it. Put [[Category:Original French]] on page that is written in your language only and let someone that reads French translate.
an interesting enhanceent that was discussed sometime ago (I don't know if it is worked on) should be to have at the bottom of the edit window buttons to insert categories, at least the most important ones like the one you speak of.
It seems that I missed or have forgotten that one.
as so most writer could add one without creating by mistake a new category
It will be large list, but if it can give list in another tab or window that one can copy and paste, it would be fine. Maybe link that will open in another tab.
a category "not yet categorised" should be inserted automatically in each new edit windows, as a default (editable)
The Mediawiki lists all articles without any category tag on separate list. See http://en.opensuse.org/Special:Specialpages > Uncategorized pages. Interesting. There is 1008 of them, some 40% of all pages.
jdd
This went off topic for this thread. I'll start new one with subject Categories of openSUSE wiki. Though I need some time to digest what is done and what is missing. -- Regards, Rajko http://en.opensuse.org/Portal needs helpful hands. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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jdd -
Martin Lasarsch -
Mike McGrath -
Rajko M.