[opensuse-wiki] RFC: Content Structure
Hi, i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those. - Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki) So something like this structure: Main -> Portal:11.2 -> /Features -> /Screenshots -> /Screenshots/KDE -> /Screenshots/UserDesktops -> /Press -> /SDB -> SDB:ASUS_WL-160N_USB_Wireless_Adapter -> keep older versions in $VERSION namespace e.g. 11.1:Features and 1.11:Screenshots/GNOME -> Portal:Project -> Project:Guiding Principles -> Project:Teams -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team/Tasks -> Project:Teams/GNOME -> Project:Teams/GNOME/Submitting_Bugs -> Project:Communication -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists/Etiquette -> Project:Communication/Forums -> Project:Communication/IRC -> Project:Communication/Meetings -> Project:Communication/Meetings/Archive -> Project:Tools -> Project:Tools/Build Service -> Project:Tools/Build_Service/Concepts -> Portal:Wiki -> Meta::Structure -> Meta:Structure/Templates -> Meta:Structure/Namespaces -> Meta:Styleguide This way we would, like Rajko proposes, keep the main namespace clean. Can limit search to the main and the Portal namespace. Won't get another 6 gazillion namespaces. And have a structure we can expand in an orderly fashion by forcing new topics to start with a portal and in their own namespace. What do you think? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
- Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki)
So something like this structure:
Main -> Portal:11.2 -> /Features -> /Screenshots -> /Screenshots/KDE -> /Screenshots/UserDesktops -> /Press -> /SDB -> SDB:ASUS_WL-160N_USB_Wireless_Adapter -> keep older versions in $VERSION namespace e.g. 11.1:Features and 1.11:Screenshots/GNOME
-> Portal:Project -> Project:Guiding Principles -> Project:Teams -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team/Tasks -> Project:Teams/GNOME -> Project:Teams/GNOME/Submitting_Bugs -> Project:Communication -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists/Etiquette -> Project:Communication/Forums -> Project:Communication/IRC -> Project:Communication/Meetings -> Project:Communication/Meetings/Archive -> Project:Tools -> Project:Tools/Build Service -> Project:Tools/Build_Service/Concepts
-> Portal:Wiki -> Meta::Structure -> Meta:Structure/Templates -> Meta:Structure/Namespaces -> Meta:Styleguide
This way we would, like Rajko proposes, keep the main namespace clean. Can limit search to the main and the Portal namespace. Won't get another 6 gazillion namespaces. And have a structure we can expand in an orderly fashion by forcing new topics to start with a portal and in their own namespace. What do you think?
Henne
Quite impressing.But this way dont you think this would restrict to the other already present articles.And there would a huge amount page movement.Or is there any other way to do it. :) Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Shayon wrote:
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
- Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki)
So something like this structure:
[...]
This way we would, like Rajko proposes, keep the main namespace clean. Can limit search to the main and the Portal namespace. Won't get another 6 gazillion namespaces. And have a structure we can expand in an orderly fashion by forcing new topics to start with a portal and in their own namespace. What do you think?
Quite impressing.But this way dont you think this would restrict to the other already present articles.
How? Can you elaborate?
And there would a huge amount page movement.
True.
Or is there any other way to do it. :)
You know what my favorite approach for something as massive as this is? Start from scratch. We could setup a read only wiki for a couple of weeks (perfect during the release, uptime wise) and then squeeze everything, in an joint effort, into the new structure. After we are done with the en wiki the other language wiki's can follow and this will be the perfect test which of those are maintained and which are not. The ones who are not maintained should get turned off quickly. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Op dinsdag 3 november 2009 17:39:06 schreef Henne Vogelsang:
Hi,
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
- Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki)
So something like this structure:
Main -> Portal:11.2 -> /Features -> /Screenshots -> /Screenshots/KDE -> /Screenshots/UserDesktops -> /Press -> /SDB -> SDB:ASUS_WL-160N_USB_Wireless_Adapter -> keep older versions in $VERSION namespace e.g. 11.1:Features and 1.11:Screenshots/GNOME
-> Portal:Project -> Project:Guiding Principles -> Project:Teams -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team/Tasks -> Project:Teams/GNOME -> Project:Teams/GNOME/Submitting_Bugs -> Project:Communication -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists/Etiquette -> Project:Communication/Forums -> Project:Communication/IRC -> Project:Communication/Meetings -> Project:Communication/Meetings/Archive -> Project:Tools -> Project:Tools/Build Service -> Project:Tools/Build_Service/Concepts
-> Portal:Wiki -> Meta::Structure -> Meta:Structure/Templates -> Meta:Structure/Namespaces -> Meta:Styleguide
This way we would, like Rajko proposes, keep the main namespace clean. Can limit search to the main and the Portal namespace. Won't get another 6 gazillion namespaces. And have a structure we can expand in an orderly fashion by forcing new topics to start with a portal and in their own namespace. What do you think?
Henne
Sounds like an excellent idea. Structure is very important, and that is what the openSUSE wiki is missing now. A nicely ordered wiki is really nice to read. Now, i have a feeling it just clutter. All info is present, it's very well written and/or translated... but it's just not what it should be. Maybe this proposal has it's downsides, but i couldn't think of any right now. That's my two cents. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
- Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki)
So something like this structure:
Main -> Portal:11.2 -> /Features -> /Screenshots -> /Screenshots/KDE -> /Screenshots/UserDesktops -> /Press -> /SDB -> SDB:ASUS_WL-160N_USB_Wireless_Adapter -> keep older versions in $VERSION namespace e.g. 11.1:Features and 1.11:Screenshots/GNOME
-> Portal:Project -> Project:Guiding Principles -> Project:Teams -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team -> Project:Teams/Boosters_Team/Tasks -> Project:Teams/GNOME -> Project:Teams/GNOME/Submitting_Bugs -> Project:Communication -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists -> Project:Communication/Mailinglists/Etiquette -> Project:Communication/Forums -> Project:Communication/IRC -> Project:Communication/Meetings -> Project:Communication/Meetings/Archive -> Project:Tools -> Project:Tools/Build Service -> Project:Tools/Build_Service/Concepts
-> Portal:Wiki -> Meta::Structure -> Meta:Structure/Templates -> Meta:Structure/Namespaces -> Meta:Styleguide
This way we would, like Rajko proposes, keep the main namespace clean. Can limit search to the main and the Portal namespace. Won't get another 6 gazillion namespaces. And have a structure we can expand in an orderly fashion by forcing new topics to start with a portal and in their own namespace. What do you think?
Henne
I LIKE it! Not much time to participate at the moment, but seeing the call/interest in more documentation, I am hoping to try to use my Technical Writing certification soonish! :} ps to Henne--sorry about the double response....for some reason the "list" is not in the default "reply-to" (????) -- ============================================================ Kay Schenk "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne, 2009/11/3 Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org>:
This way we would, like Rajko proposes, keep the main namespace clean.
As I mentioned in Rajko's topic already, keeping the main namespace clean makes perfect sense to me from a usability perspective and in context of our (to be implemented) QA process. I certainly leave the actual implementation to you guys - you have a much better insight what's actually worth and sufficient. That said, if you'd like to know my very personal opinion... your proposal looks well thought out to me. I fully support it - thanks a lot for sharing this. Best, R
Henne
-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
-- Rupert Horstkötter openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 10:39:06 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
- Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki)
While above 3 are big there are other topics that can and will be target of wiki visitros, like: development, help (knowledge/support database) -- Regards, Rajko OpenSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hi Rajko, Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 10:39:06 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
- Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki)
While above 3 are big there are other topics that can and will be target of wiki visitros, like: development,
Developing what? :) We are not a general development documentation provider or anything. There are two kinds of development articles in our wiki. Packaging resources, which belong these days to the OBS and Team/Topic specific development tasks like /GNOME/Patches or YaST_Development. Everything other snippet i came across (like why_Qt_is_your_GUI_toolkit_of_choice) belongs to a development category in the SDB. As with every other big topic we should have Portal:Packaging, Portal:Developer etc. and searching should search that namespace too. That way you get all the main pages and the hand-picked, most important, content from the different areas.
help (knowledge/support database)
All the random howtos, problem solutions and tips'n'tricks should be in the SDB. Which needs some work reducing these confusing rules that come from the time we had sdb.suse.de and putting the general structure in a template (or maybe even a simple web form application as sdb.suse.de was). Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi Rajko,
Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 03 November 2009 10:39:06 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
- Distro (Namespace=main,Portal=Portal:$VERSION,Project=Distro) - Project (Namespace=Project,Portal=Portal:Project,Project=Project) - Meta (Wiki) (Namespace=Meta,Portal=Portal:Wiki,Project=Wiki)
While above 3 are big there are other topics that can and will be target of wiki visitros, like: development,
Developing what? :) We are not a general development documentation provider or anything. There are two kinds of development articles in our wiki. Packaging resources, which belong these days to the OBS and Team/Topic specific development tasks like /GNOME/Patches or YaST_Development. Everything other snippet i came across (like why_Qt_is_your_GUI_toolkit_of_choice) belongs to a development category in the SDB.
As with every other big topic we should have Portal:Packaging, Portal:Developer etc. and searching should search that namespace too. That way you get all the main pages and the hand-picked, most important, content from the different areas.
help (knowledge/support database)
All the random howtos, problem solutions and tips'n'tricks should be in the SDB. Which needs some work reducing these confusing rules that come from the time we had sdb.suse.de and putting the general structure in a template (or maybe even a simple web form application as sdb.suse.de was).
Henne
Hello guys, Its really good to see that the topics concerned with the betterment of wiki is taken so seriously.So now i would suggest ( again) to have a meeting about it.As just speaking out in the ML , doesn't give out much , we actually have to implement it. For the whole thing to work as required we need first plan out the things in proper order , then assign the the required tasks to the concerned people.The date and time should be decided at the convenience of the interested ones :) . And if Rupert is ok with it then he can plan it out.As the last meeting was perfectly taken care and organized by him :) Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, Shayon wrote:
Its really good to see that the topics concerned with the betterment of wiki is taken so seriously. So now i would suggest ( again) to have a meeting about it. As just speaking out in the ML , doesn't give out much , we actually have to implement it.
Implement what? We did not finish the discussion yet what and how. I thinks it makes no sense to do a meeting now on who is doing it. Can we finish this discussion first? :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
Shayon wrote:
Its really good to see that the topics concerned with the betterment of wiki is taken so seriously. So now i would suggest ( again) to have a meeting about it. As just speaking out in the ML , doesn't give out much , we actually have to implement it.
Implement what? We did not finish the discussion yet what and how. I thinks it makes no sense to do a meeting now on who is doing it.
Can we finish this discussion first? :)
Henne
Oh sure.But i was just asking it to have it on the IRC.Well no worries.You can have it.I have no right to stop it :). Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
Shayon wrote:
Its really good to see that the topics concerned with the betterment of wiki is taken so seriously. So now i would suggest ( again) to have a meeting about it. As just speaking out in the ML , doesn't give out much , we actually have to implement it.
Implement what? We did not finish the discussion yet what and how. I thinks it makes no sense to do a meeting now on who is doing it.
Can we finish this discussion first? :)
Henne
uh yes...I think finishing THIS discussion and having only ONE thread to discuss the wiki reorg would be preferable to the (at least) 3 I see going on right now....very confusing! :{ So...I think the new structure proposed on the original post is a VERY good start. So??? has this been determined to be the definitive "new" structure? -- ============================================================ Kay Schenk "I’m a visionary; I’m ahead of my time. Trouble is, I’m only about an hour and a half ahead." -- George Carlin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hello, on Dienstag, 3. November 2009, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
Main -> Portal:11.2
summed up: The distribution - information for users. Agreed.
-> Portal:Project
summed up (roughly): project activities and how to do them Mostly agreed, except...
-> Project:Communication/Meetings -> Project:Communication/Meetings/Archive
Please consider to have the meeting archives in a separate namespace. Otherwise you'll probably clutter up the search with "historical" data that maybe isn't relevant at the time of searching. (This doesn't imply that archiving meetings is irrelevant. ;-) To give you a comparison: you don't want to include the mailinglist archives in the Project: namespace search ;-) The meeting archives could be in an "Archive" namespace (Archive/Project Meetings, Archive/KDE meetings etc.) Advantage: The Project namespace would only contain data that is relevant _now_.
-> Portal:Wiki
summed up: working with / organizing this wiki This could be part of the Project: namespace (the wiki _is_ a part of the openSUSE project ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- "Wenn das Wörtchen 'wenn' nicht wär' , wär' die Platte jetzt nicht leer." [Ratti in suse-linux] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Christian Boltz wrote:
on Dienstag, 3. November 2009, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
i clicked (nearly) through the (complete) wiki today, and i think we can reduce the clutter to 3 big topics and sort everything into those.
-> Project:Communication/Meetings -> Project:Communication/Meetings/Archive
Please consider to have the meeting archives in a separate namespace. [...] Advantage: The Project namespace would only contain data that is relevant _now_.
True. I like it :)
-> Portal:Wiki
summed up: working with / organizing this wiki
This could be part of the Project: namespace (the wiki _is_ a part of the openSUSE project ;-)
I think thats this way of thinking is part of our problem ;) Of course this wiki is part of the project. But this wiki does not need to be a map of our project. We need to use this wiki for what it is. A tool to write collaborative. And as such the manual of how to use this wiki is even more important as the content in it. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 10 November 2009 04:59:04 Henne Vogelsang wrote: ...
This could be part of the Project: namespace (the wiki _is_ a part of the openSUSE project ;-)
I think thats this way of thinking is part of our problem ;)
:) It is a part of the problem.
Of course this wiki is part of the project. But this wiki does not need to be a map of our project. We need to use this wiki for what it is. A tool to write collaborative. And as such the manual of how to use this wiki is even more important as the content in it.
Agree. When wiki was the only place for all types of information, it was normal to have all stuff there, but now it is not necessary. Another part of the problem is that heritage. We have to make decision what content belongs to wiki and what should go to landing page http://opensuse.org/ . That is the page where everybody lands after installation and while it is now in much better shape then right after introduction, it is still partial representation of the project. When on topic of landing page. I would move all static content on http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org to landing page, and Welcome populate with current project activity, article of the month, week, day, new projects, the most active projects, more dynamic stuff that changes from time to time. When was 11.2 release day instead of itty bitty counter announcing it, main page should be http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_11.2 . Sincerely it is not late even now, but it is not only my decision.
Henne
-- Regards, Rajko openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
Agree. When wiki was the only place for all types of information, it was normal to have all stuff there, but now it is not necessary.
Another part of the problem is that heritage. We have to make decision what content belongs to wiki and what should go to landing page http://opensuse.org/ . That is the page where everybody lands after installation and while it is now in much better shape then right after introduction, it is still partial representation of the project.
When on topic of landing page. I would move all static content on http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org to landing page, and Welcome populate with current project activity, article of the month, week, day, new projects, the most active projects, more dynamic stuff that changes from time to time.
+1 . Simultaneously also the current things should be kept in mind while performing the above tasks :) .
When was 11.2 release day instead of itty bitty counter announcing it, main page should be http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_11.2 . Sincerely it is not late even now, but it is not only my decision.
Well i personally feel , that having http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_11.2 as completely the entire would look much good.Rather we can manipulate the data a bit / or can provide a small brief and then paste the link :) . These were my two cents .!
Henne
Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Christian Boltz -
Henne Vogelsang -
Kay Schenk -
Kenny Verstraete -
Rajko M. -
Rupert Horstkötter -
Shayon -
Shayon Mukherjee