[opensuse-wiki] old-en and robots.txt
Hello, could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org? There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines. Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually. thanks, -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually.
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 03/22/2011 12:53 PM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually.
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :)
Simply everything what's not in the new wiki. For example RPM groups Mostly everything from Category:Kernel and Category:Wireless Maybe some articles are obsolete. But for example what was ported to SDB:Wifi to the new one is obsolete as well as the old-en one. Also the ndiswrapper port is total crap. Mostly nobody should use it nowadays. Hence it shouldn't appear in the new wiki in that how it looks like. Instead this should be indexed by search engines and when somebody finds it he should see something like "you are on the old wiki, some information are obsolete". Do you just copy the pages from the old one to the new one or require people to push it to the up-to-date state? The former seems to be currently the case at least for wifi articles. regards, -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 03/22/2011 01:33 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 03/22/2011 12:53 PM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually.
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :)
Simply everything what's not in the new wiki.
For example RPM groups
RPM groups? You mean this? http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Package_group_guidelines
Mostly everything from Category:Kernel
Everything that seems useful to me is already there. Did you see http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Kernel Is there anything specific that you think should be moved?
and Category:Wireless
Same here.
Maybe some articles are obsolete. But for example what was ported to SDB:Wifi to the new one is obsolete as well as the old-en one. Also the ndiswrapper port is total crap. Mostly nobody should use it nowadays. Hence it shouldn't appear in the new wiki in that how it looks like.
Since you seem to be very competent in this regard maybe you want to clean the articles up? That would be cool.
Do you just copy the pages from the old one to the new one or require people to push it to the up-to-date state? The former seems to be currently the case at least for wifi articles.
You are supposed to review the content but some don't. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 03/22/2011 12:53 PM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually. How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :) For example old PPC related information. This is a dead platform, it's not much worth the effort to port it to the new wiki, but still there are people using it. I got related e-mails even recently for example about this page: http://old-en.opensuse.org/MPC5121eADS also the old Pegasos, EFIKA and mpc8610 related pages. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:53:35PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually.
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :)
I can also tell a parking meter, with same results. Unless I do stuff myself it won't get done by the Wiki Team. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 03/22/2011 01:52 PM, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:53:35PM +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :)
I can also tell a parking meter, with same results.
Cry me a river!
Unless I do stuff myself it won't get done by the Wiki Team.
You know the reason why it is like that? Read your response again. Just a small hint from me: nobody likes a clever-dick dude Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 3/22/2011 7:53 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually.
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :)
Henne
That approach has already failed too badly. The brokenness is the rule not the exception. Sure go ahead and fix one more broken link. It's better than leaving it broken. But who cares any more? Users of those links have already been burned and who care simply do not commit any value to this wiki any more and do not link to it any more in any content they actively manage or write new. Oh suckers still do but of what value is that? That's one good thing the migration did, it gave a dose of common sense to people who got too lax and trusting. The countless random users that encounter dead links in the countless random places they exist, just chalk it up to the general crappiness of the web. They don't report them, nor should they have to, even in that fraction of situations where they could. Also, the point of the robots.txt is (hopfully) just to prevent the caching of stale incorrect info. old-en is no longer being updated so what's the problem? And I see from other responses that you are convinced the you're reasonable and everyone else is unreasonable for being outraged about unknowable countless broken links to what was considered reference material. That exactly proves the point even further right from your own lips better than anything I could say. This wiki is to be avoided like the plague. Not only was a disaster committed, the curators aren't even apologetic about it. whether they don't understand or don't care or don't agree it's a big deal, none of those are excusable or tolerable. Way to go. From one clever dick to another, dude. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 3/22/2011 4:14 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
On 3/22/2011 7:53 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually.
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :)
Henne
That approach has already failed too badly.
The brokenness is the rule not the exception.
Sure go ahead and fix one more broken link. It's better than leaving it broken. But who cares any more?
Exhibit #26341 I want to get the jbig-kit library package added to Factory. I have created a package that adheres to all general and SUSE guidelines as well as I can understand them and builds and packages cleanly on all current suse versions, and have gotten it added to the graphics repo with myself as the maintainer of it. So far so good but now comes the part that I know might involve people whos time I do not want to waste. Rather than just emailing people more or less at random and making them tell me what to do and wasting a bunch of peoples time before I piece together the procedure, I want to read whatever docs are available first. Ok I start at the build service home page. It has a link to a wiki page about the build service... http://en.opensuse.org//openSUSE:Build_Service Which mostly talks about the build service itself, not what I'm looking for, but does include a link named "Packagers" which sounds promising... http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Packaging Which looks like the beginning of exactly what I want, and links to http://lizards.opensuse.org/2010/03/23/how-to-add-new-packages-to-the-opensu... Which says to send an email using this link... http://en.opensuse.org/Factory/Packaging#Adding_a_package_to_Factory Which no longer exists. Of course I can find other avenues to the info I need. That is why you will hardly get a teeny tiny fraction of the reports of the breakage and why you can't say "just report what's broken!", nor say "no reports == no problem!". It took far longer to write this email than it took to look around and find out what I needed by other means. Even if I had merely clicked the "report problem" link provided in the 404 page, and merely pasted the broken link and left out all the ranting, that's still more than most people are going to bother with. The point is the wiki failed to deliver. Worse than that, it started off looking like it was going to deliver and then broke in the middle. Worse than that, the evidence is plain to the user that an article once existed, but the curators of this content allowed purely internal links wholly under their own control, in reference material, in _current_ reference material, to break. That not only fails to deliver the info, it advertises that the info store is unreliable. It means regardless what you find or fail to find, you can't really trust it. You can't know that what you do find is current or correct, and you can't know that what you don't find doesn't exist. How is it possible that people have to explain why broken links are bad? I really don't understand the "cry me a river" remark. It boggles the mind. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 04.04.2011 21:20, Brian K. White wrote:
On 3/22/2011 4:14 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
On 3/22/2011 7:53 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 03/22/2011 12:46 PM, Jiri Slaby wrote:
could you remove robots.txt from old-en.opensuse.org?
There are valuable data in the wiki and as the wiki wasn't ported to the new one in a reasonable time, it should definitely be indexed by search engines.
Otherwise people repeatedly fail to find the info and we have to point them to that manually.
How about you tell us what you are missing instead? :)
Henne
That approach has already failed too badly.
The brokenness is the rule not the exception.
Sure go ahead and fix one more broken link. It's better than leaving it broken. But who cares any more?
Exhibit #26341
I want to get the jbig-kit library package added to Factory. I have created a package that adheres to all general and SUSE guidelines as well as I can understand them and builds and packages cleanly on all current suse versions, and have gotten it added to the graphics repo with myself as the maintainer of it.
So far so good but now comes the part that I know might involve people whos time I do not want to waste. Rather than just emailing people more or less at random and making them tell me what to do and wasting a bunch of peoples time before I piece together the procedure, I want to read whatever docs are available first.
Ok I start at the build service home page. It has a link to a wiki page about the build service... http://en.opensuse.org//openSUSE:Build_Service
Which mostly talks about the build service itself, not what I'm looking for, but does include a link named "Packagers" which sounds promising...
http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Packaging
Which looks like the beginning of exactly what I want, and links to
http://lizards.opensuse.org/2010/03/23/how-to-add-new-packages-to-the-opensu...
Which says to send an email using this link...
http://en.opensuse.org/Factory/Packaging#Adding_a_package_to_Factory
Which no longer exists.
Of course I can find other avenues to the info I need. That is why you will hardly get a teeny tiny fraction of the reports of the breakage and why you can't say "just report what's broken!", nor say "no reports == no problem!". It took far longer to write this email than it took to look around and find out what I needed by other means. Even if I had merely clicked the "report problem" link provided in the 404 page, and merely pasted the broken link and left out all the ranting, that's still more than most people are going to bother with.
The point is the wiki failed to deliver.
Worse than that, it started off looking like it was going to deliver and then broke in the middle.
Worse than that, the evidence is plain to the user that an article once existed, but the curators of this content allowed purely internal links wholly under their own control, in reference material, in _current_ reference material, to break. That not only fails to deliver the info, it advertises that the info store is unreliable. It means regardless what you find or fail to find, you can't really trust it. You can't know that what you do find is current or correct, and you can't know that what you don't find doesn't exist.
I think the reference material should exist in the wiki, not in blogs, so I will move this article to the wiki. Are there more blog articles that can be considered as reference? By the way, the blog article now links the correct page. Greetings
How is it possible that people have to explain why broken links are bad? I really don't understand the "cry me a river" remark. It boggles the mind.
-- Thomas Schmidt (tom [at] opensuse.org) openSUSE Boosters Team "Don't Panic", Douglas Adams (1952 - 11.05.2001) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Brian K. White -
Henne Vogelsang -
Jiri Slaby -
Marcus Meissner -
Peter Czanik -
Thomas Schmidt