[opensuse-wiki] Wiki cleanup
One of the items suggested at the community meeting was the recurring complaint from a lot of people about the state of the openSUSE.org wiki. Now, I'll be the first to echo a lot of the wiki's praises, and I like a lot of the articles on there, but I keep hearing this time and time again, and it impacts on the centralisation of openSUSE documentation since people don't want to contribute to it for that reason. Several people mentioned that they'd be very willing to help with such a thing, and I have since received a couple of emails and messages from people asking about how they can get involved. I really didn't want to say to anyone "ok, just start at it", since everyone seems to be lost as it's evidently not a trivial task. So I've been trying to think about ways in which we can get a real team effort channelled into "wiki triaging", with quality control and the like. I myself haven't started doing any sort of big attempts at a clearup yet since I wanted these goals to be defined with easy ways for others to get involved. So, this brings me to a few proposals: * Suggested at the meeting: Start having a "This article has been suggested for a cleanup" notice at the top of the page, that can link to the wiki quality control information, with instructions on how to get involved. Similar to what wikipedia has. * A document with a set of tasks on what should be cleared up on the wiki. * To get a team effort going, and easy discussion on each topic, why not hang around on #opensuse-wiki, where we can always talk about each such issue. Any thoughts? Regards, -- Francis Giannaros Web: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos (irc.freenode.net)
Francis Giannaros wrote:
* Suggested at the meeting: Start having a "This article has been suggested for a cleanup"
there is already a template very near of this. anyway I don"t think this is the first thing to do. Let's see that openSUSE is running it's second life year and with 10.2 it's third distribition version, so need enhancement. But we must do this in a structured manner. The structured manner in agreement with mediawiki is the "portal" system, advertised on the main openSUSE page for some month now. A "Portal" is a starting page for all the links around an important subject (on wikipedia, there is a portal "photography", for example), and the very first thing we must decide would be what subjects are importants enough to have a portal page? As Francis said, Yast is certainly a great candidate :-) others can be "installation", "Hardware", "Boot" the better way should be to have one people in charge of one portal page, if possible Honestly, I don't think the http://en.opensuse.org/Portal is what it should. Of course there must be a "portal hub", a page that hold tha names of all portals But this page links to much too small elements. There should be less portals, but of greater importance. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Le manuel d'optique de Lucien Dodin http://lesprismes.free.fr/optique/index.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 15 February 2007 11:27, jdd wrote:
Honestly, I don't think the http://en.opensuse.org/Portal is what it should.
Of course there must be a "portal hub", a page that hold tha names of all portals
But this page links to much too small elements. There should be less portals, but of greater importance.
As both, you and Francis can see, the only one that showed interest in Portal is me. I agree that present status is not satisfactory, but whoever has interest let me know, and let we start seriously to think what categories deserve to be mentioned in Portal. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 16 February 2007 00:21:30 Rajko M. wrote:
On Thursday 15 February 2007 11:27, jdd wrote:
Honestly, I don't think the http://en.opensuse.org/Portal is what it should.
Of course there must be a "portal hub", a page that hold tha names of all portals
But this page links to much too small elements. There should be less portals, but of greater importance.
As both, you and Francis can see, the only one that showed interest in Portal is me. I agree that present status is not satisfactory, but whoever has interest let me know, and let we start seriously to think what categories deserve to be mentioned in Portal.
The portal is definitely something we should get more work into as well, and making it more obvious to people when they enter somehow might be on the task, but having the portal can only be part of the new task. We should also aim to completely clean up all current pages and implement a more vigorous quality control. The problem is of course just where do we start? Now I'm thinking that we should perhaps just get stuck in straight away and work on individual pages, or ones that we think are important. Why not join us in #opensuse-wiki as well Rajko? ;-) Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Web: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos (irc.freenode.net) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Francis Giannaros wrote:
The problem is of course just where do we start?
start on "recent changes", like this you can usually contact the author and make him works better jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Le manuel d'optique de Lucien Dodin http://lesprismes.free.fr/optique/index.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 16 February 2007 10:36, Francis Giannaros wrote:
The portal is definitely something we should get more work into as well, and making it more obvious to people when they enter somehow might be on the task, but having the portal can only be part of the new task.
Yes, portal is one subtask that should be organized better, than it can be placed on higher visible place on the front page. As it is now, it is even too visible.
We should also aim to completely clean up all current pages and implement a more vigorous quality control.
Vigorous quality control starts with clean and good structured idea what we need, and than we can write instructions "how to write articles". For that we have to sort out what structure we want/have on opensuse.org, ie. what types of articles we have there. I have some time this weekend, and I'll see to bring up something.
The problem is of course just where do we start?
There is planning and executing, there is short, mid and long term plans. We have to start planning and as much as we can keep our present work in tact.
Now I'm thinking that we should perhaps just get stuck in straight away and work on individual pages, or ones that we think are important.
We should continue doing what one think it is important. Planning is for the future, I hope not distant. We can plan, but we have to look what openSUSE guys are doing too. They have power to make many changes that we can't, and of course with growing user base they get more resources.
Why not join us in #opensuse-wiki as well Rajko?
Time zones and typing skills Francis. I'll see can I find anyone on #opensuse-wiki, but I don't see any rush that would be better served with live session. BTW, not many people there :-) -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 17 February 2007 00:52:46 Rajko M. wrote:
I have some time this weekend, and I'll see to bring up something.
That would be great.
The problem is of course just where do we start?
There is planning and executing, there is short, mid and long term plans. We have to start planning and as much as we can keep our present work in tact.
I also imagine there are a few hundred pages that we should clear out, too. Or at least, restructure into a lot less pages.
Why not join us in #opensuse-wiki as well Rajko?
Time zones and typing skills Francis.
Right, but then you can always just idle there ;-). I was out most of yesterday so sorry I missed you (same for the most of today unfortunately).
I'll see can I find anyone on #opensuse-wiki, but I don't see any rush that would be better served with live session. BTW, not many people there :-)
Not really always for the rush. In my experience teams on IRC become pretty productive like this since they can always consult each other on the smaller things, and of course still feel like more of a team like that. There aren't many people yet at all, indeed. I thought we should get some basics down first and then start advertising a bit more, I think. I think once we do we'll get quite a few people from around (forum people, a few from IRC, etc). Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Web: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos (irc.freenode.net) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 17 February 2007 01:52, Rajko M. wrote: Hi,
We can plan, but we have to look what openSUSE guys are doing too.
Rajko, it is not the community and the openSUSE guys - it's _us_ - the openSUSE community ;-).
They have power to make many changes that we can't
Please let me know whether you (and any other regulars on this list) want to get sysop permissions for the wiki, no problem with this. The "openSUSE guys" will also not do major changes on the wiki without discussing them on this list. We cannot grant you access to the servers of course, but if you, for instance, think you should be able to work on the wiki templates and css files as well, let me know. I am sure we will find a solution (the main problem will be testing the skins and css files). If there are other wiki matters where you think you should have more power, let's discuss them. -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 March 2007 05:54, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On Saturday 17 February 2007 01:52, Rajko M. wrote:
Hi,
We can plan, but we have to look what openSUSE guys are doing too.
Rajko, it is not the community and the openSUSE guys - it's _us_ - the openSUSE community ;-).
They have power to make many changes that we can't
Please let me know whether you (and any other regulars on this list) want to get sysop permissions for the wiki, no problem with this.
It is responsibility and if there will be more candidates to share the load than wiki will benefit from having more sysops. There should be some rules, however, that normal user doesn't need, but sysop does. For instance, what to do with abusive users, what actions are considered abusive, what has to discussed here and what elswhere. There are some cases where decision has to be done without procrastination and any sysop should know what are the limits.
The "openSUSE guys" will also not do major changes on the wiki without discussing them on this list. We cannot grant you access to the servers of course, but if you, for instance, think you should be able to work on the wiki templates and css files as well, let me know. I am sure we will find a solution (the main problem will be testing the skins and css files).
I'm not able to change setup of my own local wiki if I can't find instructions on mediawiki.org. It will take time to learn enough to feel comfortable, but it might work the other way around, I setup local openSUSE wiki and then test templates, css files, etc, on newer version that you consider to use as upgrade one day. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
It is responsibility and if there will be more candidates to share the load than wiki will benefit from having more sysops.
sysop have only the ability to edit the (4?) bloked pages, no more. I think we can use the opensuse-wiki list to coordinate between power users :-) say, to ask for deletion, summarize the work we plan to do... just a way of not making all the same work... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 March 2007 15:24, jdd wrote:
Rajko M. wrote:
It is responsibility and if there will be more candidates to share the load than wiki will benefit from having more sysops.
sysop have only the ability to edit the (4?) bloked pages, no more. I think we can use the opensuse-wiki list to coordinate between power users :-) say, to ask for deletion, summarize the work we plan to do... just a way of not making all the same work...
jdd
That is OK for now, but wiki will grow and more sysops will be what we need, but there must be some rules from how to select candidates to mentioned what are preferable ways to act, communicate, etc. For now the keyword is coordination, where should be communication channel without large delays, as it is now. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2/17/07, Francis Giannaros <francisg@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem is of course just where do we start? Now I'm thinking that we should perhaps just get stuck in straight away and work on individual pages, or ones that we think are important.
Jump in & edit edit edit! People who are interested in content should create content. People who like structure should work on logical structure -move pages, mark pages for merging, deletion. Merge marked pages. People who are pedantic should check grammar and spelling. People who like graphics should enhance articles with diagrams, charts, screenshots, photos. Use the tools of the wiki. Articles marked as deleted not being deleted? Look in the list of Administrators, http://en.opensuse.org/Special:Listusers/sysop or look in the deletion log http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete for active admins deleting pages, contact the admins directly and request deletion. Staff admins too busy? Request community admin. In OpenSource projects, working code speaks much louder than the best laid out plans discussions and commitments, similarly, a rework of the wiki in trouble areas I think is much better than spending time discussing and talking about it. (So I will stop shortly :-) Just to be clear, I am not saying that Wiki structure or change should not be discussed, just don't let that stand in your way of actually doing anything. Pflodo Peter Flodin . --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Assigning "editors" to specific technology topics would make sense. Organizing naming conventions and keywords for searching is a must. Francis Giannaros wrote:
One of the items suggested at the community meeting was the recurring complaint from a lot of people about the state of the openSUSE.org wiki. Now, I'll be the first to echo a lot of the wiki's praises, and I like a lot of the articles on there, but I keep hearing this time and time again, and it impacts on the centralisation of openSUSE documentation since people don't want to contribute to it for that reason.
Several people mentioned that they'd be very willing to help with such a thing, and I have since received a couple of emails and messages from people asking about how they can get involved. I really didn't want to say to anyone "ok, just start at it", since everyone seems to be lost as it's evidently not a trivial task. So I've been trying to think about ways in which we can get a real team effort channelled into "wiki triaging", with quality control and the like. I myself haven't started doing any sort of big attempts at a clearup yet since I wanted these goals to be defined with easy ways for others to get involved.
So, this brings me to a few proposals: * Suggested at the meeting: Start having a "This article has been suggested for a cleanup" notice at the top of the page, that can link to the wiki quality control information, with instructions on how to get involved. Similar to what wikipedia has. * A document with a set of tasks on what should be cleared up on the wiki. * To get a team effort going, and easy discussion on each topic, why not hang around on #opensuse-wiki, where we can always talk about each such issue.
Any thoughts?
Regards,
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On Thursday 15 February 2007 14:26, Tom Miller wrote:
Assigning "editors" to specific technology topics would make sense. Organizing naming conventions and keywords for searching is a must.
http://en.opensuse.org/To_do http://en.opensuse.org/Tasks and one or two more. Naming conventions is something that I tried to organize few times. With some help it is possible to see how to reuse: http://dmoz.org/Computers as there is a long time developed name space about computers etc. If you have ideas how to do that go ahead, please. It will benefit all of us. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 15 February 2007 14:31, Francis Giannaros wrote: Hi, [improving the state of the openSUSE.org wiki]
Any thoughts?
sorry for joining this discussion late... Here are my 2 cents. I will try to structure this mail, because I think we are facing several different problems. ############################ # Problems on openSUSE.org # ############################ * Finding information - difficult to navigate - no entry points for different target groups - SDB vs. HowTos vs. Tips vs. ... - only a basic search function - too many categories - duplicated articles * Content quality - no QA mechanism - duplicates - quality/quantity differs a lot on different topics (libzypp vs. package management) * Different target groups - which target groups exist - what are the needs of the different target groups ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1. Finding information ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What we are facing here is IMHO a general (Media)Wiki problem. MediaWiki is developed for an encyclopedia. Users coming to wikipedia usually want to know something about a very specific topic. They type in an appropriate keyword and end up with the _one_ article containing the information they are searching for. There is simply no need for a sophisticated navigation. People coming to openSUSE.org IMHO have got more general interest, such as finding information about the installation or about how to set up WLAN. To satisfy these customers, structure and navigation is needed. Generally the focus of a wiki is on collaboration and content and not on structure and navigation. Therefore organizing content on a wiki is a very challenging task. So what tools does the wiki offer to organize stuff: - Namespaces - Categories - Portal pages (correct me if I forgot something) Namespaces: * Pro - search can be limited to namespace - namespaces can only be added by sysops, therefore the number of namespaces will not constantly grow - Standard Wiki tool * Contra - Pages need to be moved from the general namespace to a specific one Foo -> Bar:Foo - namespaces can only be added by sysops ;) - default namespaces are almost useless for average openSUSE user (Talk, Election, MediaWiki,...) - a document can only belong to one namespace Categories: * Pro - everybody can invent new categories - it's easy to assign a document to a category - a document can belong to several categories - standard Wiki tool * Contra - search cannot be limited to categories - since everybody can invent new categories, their number is constantly growing Portal pages: * Pro - everybody can invent new portal pages - can target different audiences - no layout / content restrictions * Contra - since everybody can invent new portal pages, their number is constantly growing - it's difficult to get an overview of all portal pages ==> Conclusions / Action Items: - discuss creating of new Namespaces - create a Namespace for portal pages - clean up categories - continue working on the portal pages - delete / merge duplicates - investigate better search engine - unify SDB, HowTos, Tips ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2. Content quality ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I would go with Pflodo on this topic - edit, edit, edit ;-). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3. Different target groups ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Especially when creating portal pages we need to know which target groups we would like to address. This will not only affect the content of the portal pages, but probably the way it is presented to the user as well (e.g. procedure vs. list vs. table, ...). ==> Conclusions / Action Items: - discuss target groups topic -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
So what tools does the wiki offer to organize stuff:
- Namespaces - Categories - Portal pages
pages/sub pages categories/sub categories we can add goggle searc links (very efficient)
- a document can only belong to one namespace
this is a big problem. Also, the search is limited to one namespace
Categories: * Pro - everybody can invent new categories - it's easy to assign a document to a category - a document can belong to several categories - standard Wiki tool
it's probably the better tool for Mediawiki. we need to * use more subcategories * better update the category page
* Contra
most people _don't even know about_ categories, this is the main drawback
- discuss creating of new Namespaces - create a Namespace for portal pages
may not this prevent in wiki links?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2. Content quality ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* it's not so bad * looking at the recent pages, it seems to me there are quite fex new pages, most are translation pages, so may be soecially look at newly edited pages (they are candidate to be more interesting)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3. Different target groups ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Especially when creating portal pages we need to know which target groups we would like to address. This will not only affect the content of the portal pages, but probably the way it is presented to the user as well (e.g. procedure vs. list vs. table, ...).
very important. In fact each portal should have an editing team (may be only one people). jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Lucien Dodin, inventeur http://lucien.dodin.net/index.shtml --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 1 Mar 2007, Frank Sundermeyer wrote: > [improving the state of the openSUSE.org wiki] > > Any thoughts? > sorry for joining this discussion late... ... > * Different target groups > - which target groups exist > - what are the needs of the different target groups This is what I think needs to be done and have portals to address each group. ... > So what tools does the wiki offer to organize stuff: > > - Namespaces > - Categories > - Portal pages > > (correct me if I forgot something) sub... for the above. -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb@zenez.com> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 March 2007 16:28:20 Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
Here are my 2 cents. I will try to structure this mail, because I think we are facing several different problems.
A very clear analysis of all the problems, I think; a lot better than I could hope to. ;-)
Namespaces:
I'm not sure namespaces are the solution, mainly because of all the cons mentioned.
Categories: * Pro - everybody can invent new categories - it's easy to assign a document to a category - a document can belong to several categories - standard Wiki tool * Contra - search cannot be limited to categories - since everybody can invent new categories, their number is constantly growing
Categories are something that have to be adopted IMO, but they're not, on their own, the solution. I think it also has to be a case of presentation, otherwise categorisation just turns into an indexing portal project.
Portal pages: * Pro - everybody can invent new portal pages - can target different audiences - no layout / content restrictions * Contra - since everybody can invent new portal pages, their number is constantly growing - it's difficult to get an overview of all portal pages
A portal is an index. On its own, again, it's not going to be all a user needs. Most successful open source project-related wikis I know end up being so because they really crack down on what can actually go on there. The pages that are frequented become popular, and it becomes *the* location for finding out particular bits of information, and hence encourages the centralisation. This is the case for a few articles on the openSUSE wiki, but it is by no means the case for all openSUSE related information.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3. Different target groups ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Especially when creating portal pages we need to know which target groups we would like to address. This will not only affect the content of the portal pages, but probably the way it is presented to the user as well (e.g. procedure vs. list vs. table, ...).
This is going to go into my last point as well, but I really think we should get feedback from a lot of users on the wiki, how they use it, and why it might fail specifically for their purpose, and get in suggestions.
==> Conclusions / Action Items:
- discuss target groups topic
Why don't we arrange an IRC meeting to discuss these topics? They've proven to be pretty useful/productive in the past, and it would be a great way of getting a lot of people (who I know as well) care quite a bit about this issue; this includes some admins from susewiki.org, several people on the forums, and quite a few people I know on IRC. In fact, I'd probably say a very large chunk of the community. A lot of people complaining, but not doing anything; this way we can give them something quite precisely on what to do :). This way we can all brainstorm together and then have quite a few people who will be ready to get involved with executing whatever we conclude. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Website: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos on irc.freenode.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 March 2007 20:15, Francis Giannaros wrote: Hi,
Why don't we arrange an IRC meeting to discuss these topics? They've proven to be pretty useful/productive in the past, and it would be a great way of getting a lot of people (who I know as well) care quite a bit about this issue; this includes some admins from susewiki.org, several people on the forums, and quite a few people I know on IRC. In fact, I'd probably say a very large chunk of the community. A lot of people complaining, but not doing anything; this way we can give them something quite precisely on what to do :).
This way we can all brainstorm together and then have quite a few people who will be ready to get involved with executing whatever we conclude.
this sounds like an excellent idea to me. Francis, I think you already have arranged the community meetings on IRC, so you probably have got an idea what time is best. What would you suggest? -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 06 March 2007 16:21:36 Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On Thursday 01 March 2007 20:15, Francis Giannaros wrote:
Hi,
Why don't we arrange an IRC meeting to discuss these topics? They've proven to be pretty useful/productive in the past, and it would be a great way of getting a lot of people (who I know as well) care quite a bit about this issue; this includes some admins from susewiki.org, several people on the forums, and quite a few people I know on IRC. In fact, I'd probably say a very large chunk of the community. A lot of people complaining, but not doing anything; this way we can give them something quite precisely on what to do :).
This way we can all brainstorm together and then have quite a few people who will be ready to get involved with executing whatever we conclude.
this sounds like an excellent idea to me.
Francis, I think you already have arranged the community meetings on IRC, so you probably have got an idea what time is best. What would you suggest?
The weekend is very good for community users, since it's the time that they're most likely to be free. Saturdays at around 6 o'clock has proven to be pretty good. Most people are otherwise engaged during the week with their job, University/school etc, so it's not so ideal then. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Website: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos on irc.freenode.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 01 March 2007 10:28, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
==> Conclusions / Action Items:
I would start new threads with subtopics/action items. 1) discuss creating of new Namespaces Portal, Development,... What else should be isolated from Main space that new users can see first? What may confuse them more than help? 2) clean up categories Hmm. Greg, jdd and more (including me) tried, but without clear naming hierarchy it was impossible to accomplish much, not to mention a lot of work when comes to update pages that should link to new named categories, and not so many hands. 3) continue working on the portal pages Present is far from ideal and the goal is to be more like original Wikipedia Portal pages. 4) delete / merge duplicates and unify SDB, HowTos, Tips... Identify candidates seems to be first task here. 5) investigate better search engine I can side jdd's opinion. Google, somehow, is doing quite good job. 6) discuss target groups topic New users is the most critical group. Advanced users is next, but we have to clarify what skills differentiate advanced user form novice. Any other category of users and what makes difference to others. I would like that everybody gives initial proposal, nothing comprehensive, just something to start discussion with. We have to develop naming hierarchy/schema. It will help us in 1, 2 and 3. Just to underscore, there is a small group that has shown permanet interest in openSUSE wiki, and that are for now all our human resources. We can do a lot, but we have to use this opportunity and take ownership of particular tasks. I'll continue with Portal and research naming hierarchy on http://dmoz.org/Computers/ and applicability to our wiki, and keep you posted. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Francis Giannaros -
Frank Sundermeyer -
jdd -
Peter Flodin -
Rajko M. -
Tom Miller