Re: [opensuse-wiki] Navigation bar (NavBar) doesn't solve all navigation problems
Hi, I'm forwarding this answer on the -wiki ML as one could add some ideas/suggestions. On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote: [...]
I use HCL as example as it is really large group in need of at least 2 levels of navigational bars, in our local parlance NavBar as Template:NavBar.
http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Laptops is example of double navigational bar.
Both navigational bars are stand alone templates: http://en.opensuse.org/Template:HCL http://en.opensuse.org/Template:NavLaptops
The rest of templates that have similar layout, like one used on http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation are created using http://en.opensuse.org/Template:NavBar .
Two templates at the top are not really elegant solution, but currently we don't have better idea how to add subtopic.
The best solution I can find is this proposal (if we define that "Board" content is a subgroup of "Community" wiki pages) : http://en.opensuse.org/Community http://en.opensuse.org/Board As you can see, I've added a link to the more global "Community" page directly in the "Board" navbar. Advantage is that we don't clutter the user with (too) many links, but only the link of the "parent page" (in this case, "Community"). Imho, a double navbar is just too "overkill". Add too many navigation links and the user is lost again. The disadvantage (or advantage too) is that we need to define a very clear "tree-structure" on the new wiki, i.e. : Community Portal \__ Board \__ Members \__ Ambassadors \__ Teams \__ How to Participate \__ Artwork \__ subtopic Documentation Portal \__ Installation \__ Package Management (end user) doc \__ HOWTOs \__ Developer Portal \__ Packaging \__ OBS ...
I short conversation with Remy on IRC we came to conclusion that we have to experiment on the new wiki, as creating solutions on old wiki that are missing abilities of extensions and parser hooks leads nowhere.
I still have no idea how to organize tests as it was mentioned in topic 'New "Need consent" tag in transition table' we have some articles that we can't handle as we don't have any written or spoken policy about that.
Even worse, we never listed wiki content by type, and besides end user documentation we have quite a few other types, like developer documents, teamwork related articles, meetings, team pages, plans, etc, etc.
Yeah, we really have to separate content by "user case". See above.
My time is currently even more restricted as company needs more hours and the current weather doesn't cooperate, so if all will wait on me it will stretch quite a bit. I guess that Remy and you are not in a better position.
-- Regards Rajko,
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Remy, Rajko, 2010/2/9 Rémy Marquis <remy.marquis@gmail.com>:
Hi,
I'm forwarding this answer on the -wiki ML as one could add some ideas/suggestions.
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
[...]
I use HCL as example as it is really large group in need of at least 2 levels of navigational bars, in our local parlance NavBar as Template:NavBar.
http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Laptops is example of double navigational bar.
Both navigational bars are stand alone templates: http://en.opensuse.org/Template:HCL http://en.opensuse.org/Template:NavLaptops
The rest of templates that have similar layout, like one used on http://en.opensuse.org/Documentation are created using http://en.opensuse.org/Template:NavBar .
Two templates at the top are not really elegant solution, but currently we don't have better idea how to add subtopic.
The best solution I can find is this proposal (if we define that "Board" content is a subgroup of "Community" wiki pages) : http://en.opensuse.org/Community http://en.opensuse.org/Board
As you can see, I've added a link to the more global "Community" page directly in the "Board" navbar.
Advantage is that we don't clutter the user with (too) many links, but only the link of the "parent page" (in this case, "Community"). Imho, a double navbar is just too "overkill". Add too many navigation links and the user is lost again.
The disadvantage (or advantage too) is that we need to define a very clear "tree-structure" on the new wiki, i.e. : Community Portal \__ Board \__ Members \__ Ambassadors \__ Teams \__ How to Participate \__ Artwork \__ subtopic
Documentation Portal \__ Installation \__ Package Management (end user) doc \__ HOWTOs \__
Developer Portal \__ Packaging \__ OBS
...
I second what Remy presented here. This is a very elegant solution in solving the two navbar issue. I thought about that one for some time now and I cannot imagine a better solution actually .. Good job Remy! Rajko, thanks for explaining the general issue to me. What do you think about Remy's solution? Are we all three on the same page here? Do you see any issues? Best and thanks, R
I short conversation with Remy on IRC we came to conclusion that we have to experiment on the new wiki, as creating solutions on old wiki that are missing abilities of extensions and parser hooks leads nowhere.
I still have no idea how to organize tests as it was mentioned in topic 'New "Need consent" tag in transition table' we have some articles that we can't handle as we don't have any written or spoken policy about that.
Even worse, we never listed wiki content by type, and besides end user documentation we have quite a few other types, like developer documents, teamwork related articles, meetings, team pages, plans, etc, etc.
Yeah, we really have to separate content by "user case". See above.
My time is currently even more restricted as company needs more hours and the current weather doesn't cooperate, so if all will wait on me it will stretch quite a bit. I guess that Remy and you are not in a better position.
-- Regards Rajko,
-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 06:20:38 Rupert Horstkötter wrote:
What do you think about Remy's solution?
It is one of possible views of wiki web site and IMO, it is better then 2 levels of endless NavBars. I often quote http://useit.com and they found that lists are the most effective way to communicate message to visitor, but well visible inline linking, as NavBar does, with limited number of items (up to 7) is next to lists. The other option is to combine use of NavBar, that will provide extended functionality of the sidebar (menu on left side of the wiki page). Example is: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Moderator that has {{h:h|MediaWiki links}} template on the top, that is the same as our NavBar. As you can see it is a list (index) of the articles that should help moderators (sysops, administrators). When I select from that list System message I land on page: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:System_message and there you can see the same {{h:h|MediaWiki links}} template. That way user can go back to main index for that or some other group with just one click. Important is to note that in Wikimedia example, between navigational bar and article is only one index, because they have tree that has only main index (presented in their equivalent of NavBar) + one branch that is presented as index. If there is need for 3 levels branching, and as you can see from Remy's example there will be, then we have to rethink how we use sidebar. Currently there is: Project Overview How to Participate Documentation Support Support Database Contact Sitemap I created: http://en.opensuse.org/Support and linked it to Support link in sidebar, where before was only link to Communicate page. We offer far more support then few communication channels. It is just that we don't advertise that enough :) The page is work in progress [1], but "Support" page will benefit from layout and content cleanup, or add on. It is result of just one evening effort, so anyone with ideas can jump in, preferably here, or in forums. The same principle can be used for Project Overview, link that can include: 1) About: "The openSUSE project is a worldwide ..." from main page, 2) Links to contact information (extended with links to board, boosters, teams contact info) 3) Guiding principles 4) Link to Legal page 5) Link to infrastructure 6) Link to "Site map" ie, category structure (which is another possible view of web site) 7) Link to "How to participate" That way sidebar will look like: Project Overview Community Support ---- Documentation [2] Download [3] Sitemap Giving room for many more direct links that will solve 3 levels branching tree structure. 1) First level is Sidebar below dashed line ---- 2) Second level Navigational Bars on each page in the group. [4] 3) Third level indexes to articles. The 2) and 3) will be the same way as in Wikimedia example. *** [1] whole world wide web is work in progress and telling that explicitly is superfluous, specially on wiki web site. [2] - it is repeating link from support, but people that come back will look for documentation - besides it should be our priority to point people to resources that are lesser labor intensive then forum, email, IRC. [3] - this is the link to http://en.opensuse.org/Download , which is essentially the same as Get Software, but, get software is original openSUSE naming and as many original things fails by users that look for familiar link from other sites called "download". [4] - we will need ready to go templates for each group based on existing Article template, with main category of that group, and the most important links from any possible corner to this templates to make sure that people willing to contribute will see where to start. -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
[...] If there is need for 3 levels branching, and as you can see from Remy's example there will be, then we have to rethink how we use sidebar.
Currently there is:
Project Overview How to Participate Documentation Support Support Database Contact Sitemap
I created: http://en.opensuse.org/Support
This should become a Portal imho. You will see an uncomplete list of wanted Portals here : http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_guidelines#Step_0_:_Preparation Please add Portal you want to see on this list. R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 13 February 2010 12:04:19 Rémy Marquis wrote: ...
This should become a Portal imho.
Thanks for adding that in list of portals.
You will see an uncomplete list of wanted Portals here : http://en.opensuse.org/Transition_guidelines#Step_0_:_Preparation Please add Portal you want to see on this list.
Should I say that every large group of articles is candidate for own portal: KDE GNOME YaST, zypper, package management Build Service Reading Special:Allpages (* is for any suffix) there can be more candidates. ---------------------------------------------- Ambassadors AppArmor Artwork Board Boot* Branding Bug* Community Configuring Documentation Education Events Factory HCL HOWTO (or howto, or ...) Install* JackLab LTSP Libzypp Marketing Meetings OpenSUSE (I'm just reading what is there) OpenSUSE Weekly News SUSE* Screenshots Software* Standards Translations (BG, PT_BR,etc) Usability Virtualization (any) I'm giving up on attempts to voice my opinion how to sort above pages, as to create viable sorting rules is not one man task. -- Regards Rajko, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010, Rémy Marquis wrote:
The disadvantage (or advantage too) is that we need to define a very clear "tree-structure" on the new wiki, i.e. : Community Portal \__ Board \__ Members \__ Ambassadors \__ Teams \__ How to Participate \__ Artwork \__ subtopic
Documentation Portal \__ Installation \__ Package Management (end user) doc \__ HOWTOs \__ SDB
Developer Portal \__ Packaging \__ OBS
If you go with this. -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb@zenez.com> 801 849-0213 ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Rajko M. -
Rupert Horstkötter -
Rémy Marquis