DenverD, 2009/12/22 DenverD <DenverD@texan.dk>:

Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...

To all attendees (wiki team and forums squad) ... Remy will explain the Article transition/reviewing process [1] to all forum squad attendees. Certainly the wiki team should listen here as well.

please explain all the differences between the "wiki team" and "forums squad".. (i do realize that this may all be laid out somewhere on the mail list and i missed it by join too late...if so, i'll go back and read up on the history, but if it is not documented, then)

is one a sub-set of the other, or what?

if one group is viewed as 'over' and/or superior to the other, please explain how that came about..

that is, who ('the openSUSE community' as a whole, Novell, or ???) made the hierarchical decisions, and granted powers to one or the other?

can an individual be on both the team and squad?

how might one decide to which s/he wishes to be part of?

We have no strict definition for that actually. The Wiki team is referred to the people actually doing the transition, planning the Usability Concept and implementing it. Those people that are contributing to the Wiki for ages and try to be helpful in explaining what the transition is all about (i.e. "my" team). The forums squad is referred to the volunteers willing to step up and help us with the actual article transition, i.e. reviewing the content we have. We fortunately managed to gain a real crowd of contributors over at the openSUSE forums and due to the plain numbers, we call them the forums "squad". That said, there's no hierarchy between those people (we're community) but due to organizational purposes (the Wiki team and I discussed and worked on the Usability Concept for months now) we need to make sure that we all work hand in hand and you cannot expect that the forums squad is fully aware of the process .. Thus we do a mentoring session. The organization of the Wiki Team is btw my (questionable) courtesy. I actually try my best to keep the big picture in mind. HTH R

just wondering, DenverD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Le 23/12/2009 09:57, DenverD a écrit :

ok, i kinda thought i understood the distinction (that is, i thought the "wiki team" were those who had laid the foundation and the "forum squad" were those who came late, via a plea in the forums)...

please, I didn't understand this. to be clear, I was a wiki editor, but can't anymore do this for time restrictions :-( - I read the message but wont anymore update the wiki (at least on a regular basis) However, I will act a moderator on the french forum. Am I part of what you mean by "forum squad"? thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:57:40 +0100, DenverD wrote:

ok, i kinda thought i understood the distinction (that is, i thought the "wiki team" were those who had laid the foundation and the "forum squad" were those who came late, via a plea in the forums)...but, then i got confused again when i read fsundermeyer's "Under Construction: New Wiki Underway" in 22 Dec 09 news, where s/he wrote: "As mentioned, all tasks are being done by the wiki team. We'd ask members who are not part of this team to participate in our mentoring session and to coordinate with us on our mailinglist before jumping in."

which leads me to believe that the "forum squad" may be a temporary distinction and those recent volunteers who stood up when asked (via the forum) will become a 'real' member of the "wiki team" by participating in the mentoring session..

is that correct?

if so, that still leaves a question in my mind: when oldcpu (for example) recently raised his hand in the forum, was he included in the "forum squad" because of where and when he 'joined', *or* was he included in the "wiki team" since he had been "contributing to the Wiki for ages"??

you may wonder why i ask: because, i was surprised after i thought i had volunteered to help out on the "wiki team" to learn i had unknowingly joined the "forums squad" even though i've been poking my nose into the wiki "for ages" correcting typos, misspelling, clear as mud passages, and etc...having never seen the need to "join" anything in order to contribute..

perhaps this will all become clear...hope so,

respectfully, DenverD

You may be thinking about it too hard. :) Forum squad was not a term I had seen used anywhere before starting the 'forum squad introductions' thread. It wasn't meant to be derogatory, or to make an absolute distinction, but there is a distinction there: some people have been designing the new wiki - I presume they are the 'wiki team'. I'm not part of the wiki team, and turned up due to the latest 'call to arms' on the forum, so I guess that makes me part of a 'forum squad'. To the extent that you and oldcpu didn't design the new wiki, and post on the forum, you are more than welcome to join me... Mike. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

DenverD wrote:

i tried to understand all the mumbo-jumbo about templates, portals, namespaces and and and and.....and finally figured out that those things don't interest me in the least..

just to mumble some more: i ran into Frank Sundermeyer's just posted "Namespaces for the wiki.o.o" and tried (really did) to figure out what the frick...even spent some time reading http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace (until my nose hit my keyboard in a hail of zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzs) and realized we need two DIFFERENT sets of guide lines: one for the wordsmiths/editors/proofreaders/whatevers (normally called a 'style guide') and one for the folks that take the words/articles and *format* them to give that pleasing "it all hangs together" look.. count me in the former category...then i can look at words in today's wiki without joining a team *or* understanding the marching orders to be given sunday evening by the wiki skeleton builders, i think...(or, are they gonna tell me some new information about capitalization, redundancy, unnecessary remarks/comments, grammar and etc?) and, to do that i never need to understand Frank's concern about namespaces, portals and other 'programmer talk'.. let me say that a different way: if it is a requirement that i understand Frank's note or the pages he references, count me out! on the other hand, if i originate a new article i promise i will do it in OpenOffice writer (or more likely a plain text editor) and 'hand' it to a wiki markup language smart geek to format and partition as needed to make hang real pretty on the bones... ok? question: will there be an enduring team who can and will take a coherent, well written/structured and needed article consisting of WORDS and add the wiki markup? DenverD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

All, I try to explain the distinction once again. The Wiki team and I have been working on a Usability concept for almost 3 months now. We thought about the Structure of the new wiki, categorization, Layout, Visual presentation, consistent look&feel, Guideline creation and so on and so forth. People participating in that process are referred to as the Wiki Team. Now, as we have our new instance up and running at wiki.o.o and are actually ready to get started with the transition, we reached out to the community asking for help with the article transition: that means we need (and now have) a crowd of knowledged people that are willing to help us with the reviewing of the content we have .. as we recruited most of those people out of the forums, we call them the forums squad (who the hell invented that term btw?). Look at it from that perspective .. If you contribute to the forums by assisting the community you're not automatically a forums moderator while it's certainly appreciated if you join the forums team and become one. That said, every "member of the forums squad" is certainly welcome to join the Wiki team from a long term perspective by participating in the wiki on a regular basis and do jobs a forums moderator also do .. just in the wiki. I never expected such an endless discussion about that though. The purpose is clear .. we (the Wiki team) try to get a crowd of volunteers synced in order to empower them to properly do the reviewing of content we currently have in the wiki in conformity with the QA standards we defined. The intention of the mentoring session is, as i said several times before, to sync all contributors and make them aware of the QA standards we defined. ONLY that way we're able to achieve something awesome. I'm not sure if something is still unclear but if it is, please ask. Let me draw a metaphor: If you're an architect working for months on a plan to build a new house you need to sync all craftsmen before getting started ..otherwise they'll most liekly build a church or whatever or even something you cannot call a building .. that's by no mean the failure of craftsmen .. it's unprofessionalism of the architect if he fails to communicate the concept to all workers. To clarify FSundermeyer's announcement: We'll do Article reviewing of all content we have according to our QA standards and this will happen like follows: 1. We mentor all volunteers and assign specific articles to specific contributors after the session. 2. The volunteers will review the articles assigned to them and "flag" them with a Reviewed template once done according to the standards we defined. 3. The Wiki team (sysops at wiki.o.o) will then transfer and proper categorize the reviewed content into the new instance and once this is done, wiki.o.o will become en.o.o Best, R 2009/12/23 jdd-gmane <jdd@dodin.org>:

Le 23/12/2009 13:42, DenverD a écrit :

...

question: will there be an enduring team who can and will take a coherent, well written/structured and needed article consisting of WORDS and add the wiki markup?

basically, the wiki markup is text. Understanding titles is not that difficult, lists neither. that'ds nearly all.

the tables can be a nightmare to edit if more than 4/5 lines

so, yes, if there is no team there will be no wiki.

notice that the present "wiki mess" is much better than no wiki at all :-)

jdd

-- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/

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-- Rupert Horstkötter, open-slx gmbh openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Community Assistant http://en.opensuse.org/User:Rhorstkoetter Email: rhorstkoetter@opensuse.org Jabber: ruperthorstkoetter@googlemail.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Same here. I do not mind being in the Cavalry or the Infantry. I want to contribute in improving/consolidating/making existing/new documentation and gladly leave to others how the structure around this is organised. Tell me the rules and I will try to adhere to them. On Friday 25 December 2009 11:14:57 oldcpu wrote:

My 2 cents on this: I consider myself as one of the technical contributors who help out with technical content and technical content quality (in the few areas that I can contribute). The name assigned to users such as myself is not important to me, and "forum squad" or some other name is fine by me.

I'm definitely not part of the established "wiki team" who have been doing incredibly excellent work in the back ground on the framework and structure of the wiki. Without them there would be no wiki.

Its great to see some movement on this and I only hope I am up to the challenge (in both time and capability) in contributing in some small way to the wiki changes.

Lee aka oldcpu

On 12/23/2009 09:57 AM, DenverD wrote:

...

if so, that still leaves a question in my mind: when oldcpu (for example) recently raised his hand in the forum, was he included in the "forum squad" because of where and when he 'joined', *or* was he included in the "wiki team" since he had been "contributing to the Wiki for ages"??

-- Met vriendelijke groet, Henk van Velden -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 25 December 2009 05:14:41 DenverD wrote:

wiki team = (mostly) folks VERY knowledgeable ...

If very knowledgeable would lead then we wouldn't have to fix things now :) I hope that your words will become rightful description in a near future.

forum squad = new, MUCH needed helping hands to do lots of work...may or may not be able to consistently spell wike weki wici wiki ...

Will to do something and patience to make plan before jump, is all that is needed. Now, when company is bigger then ever, it is easier to be motivated to do something good, at least it is for me. Spelling: We have now the biggest team of dedicated proofreaders since current wiki was established, so we can now think seriously about professional appearance of the wiki. -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org