[opensuse-wiki] Update selected language wikis to the current state of en.opensuse.org
Bugzilla request: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=629405 can produce longer discussion, so it would be better to use ML for that *** Having separate wiki.o.o was advantage with en.o.o, as it helped to create new structure without having ballast of backward compatibility on our neck that can spoil efforts and final result will be far from wanted. Our biggest problem after the switch was sudden and large change, which always creates tensions. People have aversion to change. With language wikis is different. They don't have backward compatibility problem, all they have now is problem how to get in sync with en.o.o. What is advantage of just updating? 1. We don't have to think about article histories and attribution to authors, they will be preserved with article move to new location. 2. When splitting articles all we have to do is: 2.1. create new article 2.2. leave message in a very first comment that tells: "This article is based on [[original_article_name]]." The new wiki allows to use syntax [[original_article_name]] which is converted to link to original article, even in comment field. 3. Move is much faster operation then export from one wiki and import to the other, plus all icons and logos are in place and can be replaced as time permits with those that are used in en.o.o. 4. The change will be stretched over the time which will give users a chance to adjust. 5. Search engines will not index temporary wiki. (Any more?) BTW, script (bot) that will browse wikis and update interwiki links is long overdue, so this can be opportunity to find or create one. Disadvantage: 1. A lot of article deletions, which can be handled with some of scripts in a maintenance directory like deleteBatch.php , or some extension that will remove all traces of deleted files like http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Nuke . 2. There is need for careful planning, like listing articles in few categories: 1) keep (keep as is, split to, update) 2) obsolete good >> direct to Archive 3) obsolete and low quality >> delete 4) need expert help and probably more. Comments, please :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Le 10/08/2010 05:55, Rajko M. a écrit :
What is advantage of just updating?
language wikis, compared to en wiki have several differences: * the page number is low, * the man power is low But if we want a clean openSUSE Web Site, we must have the same layout/color/template everywhere. We also need to be able to translate any en page with coherent organisation. This mean that we have to use the same templates as en, with the main difference than we can't have the same moving concept, so we have to begin the move in place. I think we will find the authors to enhance the main page and the main portals. So we have to get the tools jdd NB: when the initial fr wiki openned, I spent 6 month translating (full time or nearly). I can't afford to do this again :-( -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 10 of August 2010 10:58:45 jdd wrote:
But if we want a clean openSUSE Web Site, we must have the same layout/color/template everywhere.
absolutely! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 10.08.2010 05:55, Rajko M. wrote:
Having separate wiki.o.o was advantage with en.o.o
With language wikis is different. They don't have backward compatibility problem, all they have now is problem how to get in sync with en.o.o.
What is advantage of just updating?
[...]
Disadvantage:
1. A lot of article deletions
2. There is need for careful planning, like listing articles in few categories:
3. A lot of templates, articles and icons have the same name. That means you have to take care that each and every article that uses them is adapted to fit the new stuff once you change them. That can mean a lot of (temporary) breakage in the live wiki opposed to a atomic change when we use a temporary wiki. 4. You have to take extra care of old cruft. It doesn't go away automatically with the switch. You have to touch each and every page opposed to only the pages that matter (and the pages you forget ;-). 5. We don't have any real life experience with this opposed to a step by step script (Help:Transfer) to do it in a temporary wiki. Which we also already have gone through twice and ironed out problems (with en.o.o and de.o.o). Especially the last reason, given the complexity of this task, is the reason i would do it with a temporary wiki. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 10.08.2010 11:49, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
5. We don't have any real life experience with this opposed to a step by step script (Help:Transfer) to do it in a temporary wiki.
Sorry http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Translation of course Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 10 August 2010 04:49:22 Henne Vogelsang wrote: > Hey, > > On 10.08.2010 05:55, Rajko M. wrote: > > Having separate wiki.o.o was advantage with en.o.o > > > > With language wikis is different. > > They don't have backward compatibility problem, all they have now is > > problem how to get in sync with en.o.o. > > > > What is advantage of just updating? > > [...] > > > Disadvantage: > > > > 1. A lot of article deletions > > > > 2. There is need for careful planning, like listing articles in few > > > categories: > 3. A lot of templates, articles and icons have the same name. That means > you have to take care that each and every article that uses them is > adapted to fit the new stuff once you change them. That can mean a lot > of (temporary) breakage in the live wiki opposed to a atomic change when > we use a temporary wiki. There is much smaller number of anything in language wikis. In ru.o.o someone already tried to start sync ru wiki with en.o.o, but missing namespaces and extensions prevented him/her from doing that. > 4. You have to take extra care of old cruft. It doesn't go away > automatically with the switch. You have to touch each and every page > opposed to only the pages that matter (and the pages you forget ;-). That is the same as 2. > 5. We don't have any real life experience with this opposed to a step by > step script (Help:Transfer) to do it in a temporary wiki. Which we also > already have gone through twice and ironed out problems (with en.o.o and > de.o.o). > > Especially the last reason, given the complexity of this task, is the > reason i would do it with a temporary wiki. A lot of stuff that is important for the new organization can exist in parallel with old. Few that don't can be listed, prepared for change and changed in a short period of time, for instance during the night in that part of the world. In any case we have to list mandatory pages in similar fashion I did once, with all details, not just page titles, but all transcluded stuff too. To make idea what is needed we can update only wikis that want that, ie. respond to this email, and then start. I can help with ru.o.o as at least I can read Russian. For me major reason is that I expect relatively slow process that will give visitors chance to adjust to new stuff. Candidates for update in place, without external temporary wiki, please answer. > Henne -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-08-11 13:26, Rajko M. wrote:
Candidates for update in place, without external temporary wiki, please answer.
IMO, that is preferable, but I'm not a wiki mantainer. Just an sporadic writer. I write text, not nice paraphernalia, that's for others :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar))
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2010-08-11 13:26, Rajko M. wrote:
Candidates for update in place, without external temporary wiki, please answer.
IMO, that is preferable, but I'm not a wiki mantainer. Just an sporadic writer. I write text, not nice paraphernalia, that's for others :-)
It may also be a good idea to ask on the localized ML (opensuse-es, -ru, etc.) as I'm not sure if all the maintainers read this list (?). Concerning the FR wiki, we clearly don't have the manpower to do the transition yet. Also, it is currently a low priority issue for me. Regards, R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 08:13:24 Rémy Marquis wrote:
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2010-08-11 13:26, Rajko M. wrote:
Candidates for update in place, without external temporary wiki, please answer.
IMO, that is preferable, but I'm not a wiki mantainer. Just an sporadic writer. I write text, not nice paraphernalia, that's for others :-)
Carlos you can contact admins and see what is their opinion.
It may also be a good idea to ask on the localized ML (opensuse-es, -ru, etc.) as I'm not sure if all the maintainers read this list (?).
Agree, although they should follow this list too.
Concerning the FR wiki, we clearly don't have the manpower to do the transition yet. Also, it is currently a low priority issue for me.
I've seen Special:Statistics and it just confirms your words. Maybe we can use http://languages.opensuse.org for preparation of translations. Let's see in a next few days as we develop concept.
Regards,
R.
-- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-08-13 06:48, Rajko M. wrote:
On Wednesday 11 August 2010 08:13:24 Rémy Marquis wrote:
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
On 2010-08-11 13:26, Rajko M. wrote:
Candidates for update in place, without external temporary wiki, please answer.
IMO, that is preferable, but I'm not a wiki mantainer. Just an sporadic writer. I write text, not nice paraphernalia, that's for others :-)
Carlos you can contact admins and see what is their opinion.
I have no idea who they might be.
It may also be a good idea to ask on the localized ML (opensuse-es, -ru, etc.) as I'm not sure if all the maintainers read this list (?).
Agree, although they should follow this list too.
There are no wiki related emails in the -es list, but my memory is not that good. Now and then we see an sporadic (one in several months) question of some one asking who to contact. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar))
Le 16/08/2010 14:51, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I have no idea who they might be.
if some are not here, a call on user list could find them :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-08-16 20:27, jdd wrote:
Le 16/08/2010 14:51, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I have no idea who they might be.
if some are not here, a call on user list could find them :-)
If they existed, they would already have said so here. There is no other list I know about where they should be. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar))
participants (6)
-
Carlos E. R. -
EGD -
Henne Vogelsang -
jdd -
Rajko M. -
Rémy Marquis