Hey, On 03.08.2010 00:42, Brandon Philips wrote:
On 12:29 Mon 02 Aug 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 07/30/2010 05:27 PM, Brandon Philips wrote:
On 15:16 Fri 30 Jul 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 30.07.2010 15:00, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
Maybe I have missed it during the endless namespace discussions, but do we have proof that the "casual visitors" are indeed the majority?
Does that show us the problem namespaces are trying to solve?
The goal was to solve the issue of casual visitors using the wiki search and finding information that isn't user oriented documentation, right?
The goal was to serve visitors better (more fitting), high quality content.
This can be done by making the content higher quality instead of hiding the contributor pages in namespaces. It feels as if we are brushing clutter under a namespace rug.
So contributor pages are by definition not high quality? I don't follow your reasoning sorry. I'm talking about all the content that is in the wiki.
To give an example currently we have a number of pages that are all disconnected for the Kernel:
openSUSE:Bugreport kernel openSUSE:Kernel git SDB:Kernel of the day
Instead of this mess of namespaces and information I reorganized it all into a single page on http://en.opensuse.org/Kernel with nicely organized sections drilling down from what a Kernel is to how to use the openSUSE kernel git.
And now you perfectly ignored the casual consumer of the distribution who just needs and explanation about this "Kernel" thing he keeps hearing about and re-invented the wheel that we already invented with the Portal. Portals are the places where you would link all the pages about the Kernel together and where you would give an introduction about all the aspects of the Kernel.
This avoids the namespaces, includes useful "user documentation" and doesn't draw a hard line between "users" and "contributors".
Which is one thing we explicitly want.
So we separated the content by 3 user groups (following the bento concept) into namespaces
* Users (main) * Contributor (opensuse)
As you show here openSUSE: is actually the namespace for contributors.
Perhaps rename openSUSE: to contrib: or contributor:.
Why? And more importantly: Why now? We are not exactly in a phase in this project where we can easily rename a namespace. This is a major hassle and what advantage does it bring except the removing the redundancy of the word openSUSE? I'm sorry but this is just not enough gain to throw over the whole concept we worked on and discussed for months.
Removing namespaces would be better but this change will suggest who the namespace is used by. You make it clear right here that the openSUSE: namespace isn't working by having to define the namespace use in parenthesis.
Might be that this would be better but we had an argument about this last year and the outcome is what we have now.
Not everyone is going to read the namespace rules and making discoverable norms is part of building a community that follows the rules.
Not everybody needs to. People that want to contribute significantly to the wiki have to. Everybody else does not need to care about it :)
* Community (help)
Huh, I don't get this one at all.
This is something we also did wrong in the old layout. The wiki is a tool people use to contribute to openSUSE. There are people maintaining the wiki, the community around the wiki. They need their space to organize and document how hey work on/with the tool wiki. meta-documentation, that's why it is the Help: namespace.
The search is one topic of the whole transition. Its was never the goal.
It seems to be the only user visible change due to this whole namespace mess though. That and breaking tons of URLs.
Thanks for neglecting all the hard work we have put into structure, layout, looks, standardization, content review, new content, navigation, maintainability, sustainability, categorization, extensions, etc. etc. :-/ Sure, we worked a year on breaking the search and on introducing a namespace mess. If only we would have asked you in the beginning. I'm really amazed on how everybody thinks he can treat us, people that did/do the work, like idiots. Thanks! Really!
You can read all this on Portal:Wiki which is linked from the Main page :)
I tried but you broke the URL! (Sidebar -> Help -> Create a page)!
OMG I'm not perfect! Please don't tell anyone! Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org