On 11/16/2010 11:26 PM, Rajko M. wrote:
Henne wrote what is in general advisable for any article.
I'll expand a bit on that: Presentation should be in Main namespace. It should be written so that it changes very little with the time. Using links to software search to find software, upstream news, SDB articles should provide relatively static LXC presentation.
Instructions how to install and configure depend on development and they can be in SDB namespace.
On Tuesday 16 November 2010 08:54:24 Brian K. White wrote:
Or is it just that this article happens to be in the root namespace and maybe just that is no longer allowed to be scribbled on at random
Right.
and everything else is still actually a wiki?
Look Help:Namespace for explanation.
In old wiki allowing to "scribble" at random did not work well. Updating articles did not work well too, although it wasn't restricted. Ditto, it is established quality control, using FlaggedRevs, a MediaWiki extension, that by now pretty efficiently demotivates scribbling, for instance by spammers to embed spam in existing pages.
On the other hand, anyone can click on link "Draft page" (top right on pages that are not reviewed) and see new version of the article, so nothing is actually hidden, not even from casual visitors, but they at least know what is last version that was approved by someone.
Workflow in a current wiki is not perfect either, but we working on it. You comment is valuable feedback, although I agree with Henne that tone is sharper then expected from someone that missed whole "Help" section in a wiki sidebar: * Wiki http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Wiki * Create a Page http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Concept * Change a Page http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Editing * Find a Page http://en.opensuse.org/Help:Search
Your complaint is anyway valid, as you are not alone among single articles maintainers that don't read help files and are surprised when change is not instantly visible. Maybe links in sidebar are not visible enough, or clear enough that one has to read them to understand how new wiki works. Maybe we missed something in linked articles that should be added so that everyone reading them can easily see what to do after changes to articles that should be approved as fast as possible.
The proper fix is just as you and Henne said and I myself, split it up into a front page overview that cares more about polish and needs little maintenance over time, and from there link to tech details which always change and can't always be made simple or pretty. And go a step further as you said too, split the tech details if possible into, I don't know, install/setup vs ongoing admin & usage? OpenSUSE-version-specific? Package-version-specific? Usage hints and suggestions that are known working good ideas but are in no way a requirement or the only way to do things? This is just one page in zillions, I don't mean to make it sound remotely important. My complaint was more about the wiki than this page. That has been answered by explaining that it's only the root namespace which is perfectly reasonable. I just got tripped because I was working on this page before the change in rules so for me the wiki changed from underneath me, not "i failed to read the docs". Admittedly my fuse was short, but only because it was made short by previous wiki switchover problems. ie: dropping the pages attributions & history in the copy to the new site and breaking links to many many pages including this one. All those problems are in some form addressed or fixed by now. It's just that since I'm here during the switchover instead of coming here new today, I hit every problem and had no significant run of problem free good performance to date. Also I and others did not particularly agree with the need for the switchover. Voluntary growing pains are entirely different from involuntary ones. Time will have to pass with no further problems to outgrow the feeling that "this wiki sucks they keep breaking things" and chalk up the last few months to startup investment. I expect that will in fact happen, so I'm not pessimistic. It just hasn't happened yet and I see no reason to pretend everything is great before time has proven that it is. As for attitude: An optimistic attitude is obviously generally more productive. But optimism and granting benefit of the doubt are only logical as a default, not after having problems. Cynicism is not usually productive as a default state, but after problems have already been had, it's exactly the correct and logical response. Anything else isn't optimism it's stupidity. I acknowledge my tone was perhaps not quite necessary, but I do not quite exactly apologize for it yet. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org