Hi, after agreeing with you many times, that our partitioning module needs some facelift, I have created some mockups how this could look like: http://en.opensuse.org/UX/Partitioner The module would be divided into two tabs: * basic partitioning * Logical Volumes (maybe Logical Volumes Management (LVM) would be more appropriate) The "basic partitioning" tab provides: * An overview table with informations about hard discs and their partitions (as far as I understood Ihno there are plans to exchange the device names (hda, hdb) with the device ID, so I try to do this already in this mockup) * search for hard discs (might be cool for environments with lots of hard discs) * filter to display e.g. only active hard discs * an action area in the second half of the module where the user can work on the partitions without having to click an extra add/edit/delete button; the current mock-up shows the action area when the user clicks on an unallocated disc space. I thought about displaing a graphical overview, but I rejected that idea for the following reasons: * no additional information to the table overview * might be suitable for desktop environments but not in an environment where there are many partitions to manage which can be formated with many different file systems * the target audience (sys admins) prefer numbers to graphics * useless in textmode * needs quite a lot of space I think, that most of the mock-up should be instantly clear, I just want to mention some points: * hdd activation: to activate a hdd the user has to display an deactivated device and then mark the check box in the overview * partitioning schemes: came up in a discussion and should ease the deployment of partitions for ** unexperienced users as they can choose from different schemes (e.g. 3 linux partitions with equal size) ** experienced users as they don`t have to do the same work over and over again but can customize a scheme and then apply it. * dynamic resizing: came up in a discussion and means: if unallocated disc space is available and the partition is quite full it aquires needed disc space automatically. * Delete partition: the user needs to set the size of the partition on 0 MB. LVM part: * the basic workflow of creating a LV is: ** create a physical volume ** create a volume group ** create a logical volume (linear, stripe, mirroring, snapshot) ** format logical volume ** set mount point ** mount it On the first start of the LVM-tab there will come up a pop-up, which offers the user some help and explanation around the LV topic. This pop-up will have a "don`t show this dialog again"-button. The tab is devided into two sections * physical volumes * logical volumes In each section the user can create/edit/delete the corresponding volume type. Not a killer design, but it seems to me the easiest way to present this topic. So, what do you think? Enjoy, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schmidkunz wrote:
Hi,
after agreeing with you many times, that our partitioning module needs some facelift, I have created some mockups how this could look like:
Hi, First of all, I have to say that partitioning is IMAO impossible to do without Wizards if we want to cover both use cases - newbies and IT administrators. There are so many tasks that user needs to/can do when installing a system on a disk, or even installing a second system (already installed Windows), which is a very common use-case, that we just can't do everything from one (or) two dialogs. In my opinion, the very first dialogs should a selection of use cases, defined by what partitioner finds on the current disk e.g.: (x) I want to shrink Windows installation and use the free space for openSUSE installation ( ) I want to use all disks for openSUSE system ... ( ) I want to run an expert partitioner Partitioner needs more than a face-lifting, it needs good wizards that helps you to do very difficult task in a few very simple tasks. Common user doesn't need to know even what a hard disk is and how it looks like. People want to use our system, they don't want to install it more than once and not all of them "want to learn more" ;) BTW: I've attached some screen-shots from Ubuntu installation 6.06. Just to add some more ideas into the Partitioner Ein Topf :) To be honest, I wouldn't understand this overcrowded dialog very well: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:20052007_partitioner_redesign.png
The module would be divided into two tabs: * basic partitioning * Logical Volumes (maybe Logical Volumes Management (LVM) would be more appropriate)
The "basic partitioning" tab provides:
* An overview table with informations about hard discs and their partitions (as far as I understood Ihno there are plans to exchange the device names (hda, hdb) with the device ID, so I try to do this already in this mockup) * search for hard discs (might be cool for environments with lots of hard discs) * filter to display e.g. only active hard discs * an action area in the second half of the module where the user can work on the partitions without having to click an extra add/edit/delete button; the current mock-up shows the action area when the user clicks on an unallocated disc space.
When doing such a complicated task as creating new partition or resizing some old one definitely is, it's better to provide enough additional information that wouldn't fit into one dialog (for all such cases together). We really need to provide textual help for such tasks to make users understand what they do and why... Pop-up windows do the job very well, just as Partition Magic or Ubuntu already do.
I thought about displaing a graphical overview, but I rejected that idea for the following reasons:
* no additional information to the table overview * might be suitable for desktop environments but not in an environment where there are many partitions to manage which can be formated with many different file systems * the target audience (sys admins) prefer numbers to graphics * useless in textmode * needs quite a lot of space
I think, that most of the mock-up should be instantly clear, I just want to mention some points:
I wouldn't be so strict about not-displaying the graphical overview. Sure, IT administrators wouldn't probably need it, but a common use with, let's say, maximally three disks would love it. One picture can tell more than a thousand words... I don't, of course, want to discourage you, just, please, think about it in the way we need to make newbies understand also to prevent from data-loss. -- Lukas Ocilka, YaST Developer (xn--luk-gla45d) ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s. r. o., Lihovarska 1060/12, Praha 9, Czech Republic
Hi, I think there is a little misunderstanding. I am not referring to the partitioning phase during the installation but to the YaST module in the already installed system.
In my opinion, the very first dialogs should a selection of use cases, defined by what partitioner finds on the current disk e.g.:
(x) I want to shrink Windows installation and use the free space for openSUSE installation ( ) I want to use all disks for openSUSE system ... ( ) I want to run an expert partitioner
Yes, something like this is useful during installation. I would definitly like to have it there!
Partitioner needs more than a face-lifting,
I know, I was just kidding :-)
People want to use our system, they don't want to install it more than once and not all of them "want to learn more" ;)
This might be true for users with some experience who are also doing some developing/system administration stuff, but the Newbie just wants to perform some basic tasks (Internet, Office) and not "waste" time in exploring the system.
BTW: I've attached some screen-shots from Ubuntu installation 6.06. Just to add some more ideas into the Partitioner Ein Topf :)
Thanks for the ingrediencies :-)
To be honest, I wouldn't understand this overcrowded dialog very well:
Thanks for the feedback!
When doing such a complicated task as creating new partition or resizing some old one definitely is, it's better to provide enough additional information that wouldn't fit into one dialog (for all such cases together). We really need to provide textual help for such tasks to make users understand what they do and why...
True. But on the other hand if you look at the Ubuntu pop-ups there is not really that much the user can input there (not speaking of the missing additional information). So maybe we can put up some partitioning tutorial in the help or much better: on opensuse and then link to that? The other point is, that besides the Newbie-user there are also the highly experienced users who know very well what to do and are pretty annoyed by too much text (at least thats what I have been always told about them). The partitioner targets mainly people who know about partitioning, so the additional challenge would be to provide some additional newbie information somewhere.
Pop-up windows do the job very well, just as Partition Magic or Ubuntu already do.
But wouldn't it be better to save the user the action of clicking on a button when we can display the necessary information in one dialog?
I wouldn't be so strict about not-displaying the graphical overview. Sure, IT administrators wouldn't probably need it, but a common use with, let's say, maximally three disks would love it.
Maybe. But how to distinguish between an environment with 500 hard discs and 3 hard discs?
One picture can tell more than a thousand words...
hehe
I don't, of course, want to discourage you, just, please, think about it in the way we need to make newbies understand also to prevent from data-loss.
No, I didn`t take this as a discouragement. I just wanted to start the discussion about that difficult topic. I was also aware that the mock-ups are not the super solution but you have to start at some point. I also am very curious about other feedback :-) Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schmidkunz wrote:
Hi,
I think there is a little misunderstanding. I am not referring to the partitioning phase during the installation but to the YaST module in the already installed system.
Anyway, the partitioner during installation is even more important than on a running system. Some people might want to repartition their disk on a running system (whatever they call it), some could buy a new disk and want to use it without reinstalling the system (of course), but *everyone* needs to install that system (yes, I know, if it is not already pre-installed, ...).
In my opinion, the very first dialogs should a selection of use cases, defined by what partitioner finds on the current disk e.g.:
(x) I want to shrink Windows installation and use the free space for openSUSE installation ( ) I want to use all disks for openSUSE system ... ( ) I want to run an expert partitioner
Yes, something like this is useful during installation. I would definitly like to have it there!
Maybe even in a running system... The fact, you want to run partitioner on already installed system needn't actually mean that you are an expert :) I'd rather have such options with wizards (but obviously different to installation-related ones) in the running system as well. Experts could select the (x) "Expert partitioner" option. Some tasks can't be predicted, another minor ones can't fit into one dialog because they are either really minor or there are a lot of them. I'd suggest defining the most common use-cases first (as already mentioned at http://en.opensuse.org/UX/Partitioner page): * Starting partitioner * Identifying available information (hdd, partitions) * Identifying new available hard disc * Select new available hard disc ... If we have a set of use cases, we could create some wizards (adding and using new disk in five simple steps). When using intelligent wizards, users don't even need to know what a partition is. After they learn enough later, they could just use expert partitioner next time. Maybe a check-box [ ] "Skip This Dialog Next Time (Use Directly Expert Partitioner)" could appear just after user selects the "Expert Partitioner" choice (not selected by default). That could even work for an IT administrator.
People want to use our system, they don't want to install it more than once and not all of them "want to learn more" ;)
This might be true for users with some experience who are also doing some developing/system administration stuff, but the Newbie just wants to perform some basic tasks (Internet, Office) and not "waste" time in exploring the system.
Yes, that's what I tried to write (in rough shape). Why to bother users with partitioning? We could just tell them that (example): --- example --- There is not enough space (no space) for the openSUSE installation. Windows installation takes all the disk (almost all the disk). Would you like to (x) Shrink Windows installation and propose openSUSE disk layout for a Dual-Boot computer? ( ) Remove Windows installation and use the entire disk for openSUSE? ( ) Sit Down and Listen to Hooverphonic? ( ) Run Expert Disk-Partitioning Tool? --- example ---
When doing such a complicated task as creating new partition or resizing some old one definitely is, it's better to provide enough additional information that wouldn't fit into one dialog (for all such cases together). We really need to provide textual help for such tasks to make users understand what they do and why...
True. But on the other hand if you look at the Ubuntu pop-ups there is not really that much the user can input there (not speaking of the missing additional information). So maybe we can put up some partitioning tutorial in the help or much better: on opensuse and then link to that? The other point is, that besides the Newbie-user there are also the highly experienced users who know very well what to do and are pretty annoyed by too much text (at least thats what I have been always told about them). The partitioner targets mainly people who know about partitioning, so the additional challenge would be to provide some additional newbie information somewhere.
Yes, Ubuntu partitioner is also sometimes a bit confusing and it doesn't use the dialog space very efficiently in some cases. About linking some openSUSE tutorial on web: I've already read some reply in the Installation thread that users just wouldn't read it and I have to agree on that statement. Moreover (installation case), imagine that you have only one computer and you want to install openSUSE on it. How would you like to read that article? Partitioning needs to be self-explanatory.
Pop-up windows do the job very well, just as Partition Magic or Ubuntu already do.
But wouldn't it be better to save the user the action of clicking on a button when we can display the necessary information in one dialog?
I don't see this as a solution for every case :( There are so many things you can do with a partition that a single dialog just can't hold all the needed UI widgets. And also the more widgets you add into one dialog, the more it is confusing and unreadable. I'd be interested in a study that tries to prove or disclaim or just defines how many UI widgets in one dialog can be easily understood to a user that sees it for the very fist time, than a second time (after some time). Also a layout of widgets makes the difference I guess. Pop-up can be actually a small one or a big one with help. Pop-ups are often used to attract user's attention. Once users read the pop-up contained in it, they remember it for a while and in a base dialog, we can provide just a small part of the information described before. As an example, a base dialog with table of disks could be used, [Add], [Edit], [Delete] (standard buttons connected to table, just for an example) are connected with another pop-up windows. Some pieces of information fit into the table but another, less-important, just don't fit there and they are displayed just on a user's request - pressing a button.
I wouldn't be so strict about not-displaying the graphical overview. Sure, IT administrators wouldn't probably need it, but a common use with, let's say, maximally three disks would love it.
Maybe. But how to distinguish between an environment with 500 hard discs and 3 hard discs?
Common user will love it, IT administrators might hate it. Why we just don't hide it under a [x] "Show Graphical Overview" check-box that would be unselected in an Expert Partitioner and selected in a Newbie Mode :) (yes, they are only default values).
One picture can tell more than a thousand words...
hehe
Drawing use-cases helps a lot to the designer :) I know that ;) believe me. (And yes, I saw something similar written in one of your mails after I had written this one :) )
I also am very curious about other feedback :-)
Let's see :) Bye Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, YaST Developer (xn--luk-gla45d) ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s. r. o., Lihovarska 1060/12, Praha 9, Czech Republic
Hi, to be honest I though of some Wizard like things at first as well, but I dropped them because in the wizard workflow you would have something like: What do you want to do? * Shrink a partition * OK, Which partition do you want to shrink?=> display of all hard/discs partitions? * Create a partition * OK, Which unallocated disc space do you want to use?=> display of all hard discs/partitions? But maybe it just needs more thinking about that :-)
--- example --- There is not enough space (no space) for the openSUSE installation. Windows installation takes all the disk (almost all the disk). Would you like to
(x) Shrink Windows installation and propose openSUSE disk layout for a Dual-Boot computer? ( ) Remove Windows installation and use the entire disk for openSUSE? ( ) Sit Down and Listen to Hooverphonic? ( ) Run Expert Disk-Partitioning Tool?
--- example ---
I request a tool tip to explain the term "Hooverphonic" :-)
Yes, Ubuntu partitioner is also sometimes a bit confusing and it doesn't use the dialog space very efficiently in some cases.
Yapp.
How would you like to read that article?
e.g. people who don't know what a partition is? :-)
Partitioning needs to be self-explanatory.
It needs to be self-explanatory but you have to bring some basic skills with you (e.g. what is a partition)
I'd be interested in a study that tries to prove or disclaim or just defines how many UI widgets in one dialog can be easily understood to a user that sees it for the very fist time, than a second time (after some time). Also a layout of widgets makes the difference I guess.
This also depends on the grouping of the widget (I think that is also what you meant by layout of widgets) Basically short term memory can remember something like 5-7 chunks (pieces of information). It also heavily depends on the experience of the user and other factors. But to give a short answer: I don't know anything exact about that :-)
As an example, a base dialog with table of disks could be used, [Add], [Edit], [Delete]
I was also thinking about that, but I was also asked to think of an innovative design. Difficult, difficult. I just rethink the whole thing :-)
Common user will love it, IT administrators might hate it. Why we just don't hide it under a [x] "Show Graphical Overview" check-box that would be unselected in an Expert Partitioner and selected in a Newbie Mode :) (yes, they are only default values).
I thought about that as well but I couldn't figure out a nice place for the switch between graphical and numerical mode. I first thought about using tabs or radio buttons.
Drawing use-cases helps a lot to the designer :) I know that ;) believe me.
I believe you :-) Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org
Den Monday 21 May 2007 10:34:14 skrev Martin Schmidkunz:
after agreeing with you many times, that our partitioning module needs some facelift, I have created some mockups how this could look like:
Overall it looks like a definite improvement.
* Delete partition: the user needs to set the size of the partition on 0 MB.
I think that's rather strange. So you have to set slider to 0 > apply > then "start over". How about you can right click partitions in the overview above and "delete partition" is one of the context menu options. Another thing, I think one of the most common tasks done with the partitioner on already installed systems is setting a mount point for existing partitions. Therefore I don't think it's a good idea to have the mount-point-thingy in the "manual partitioning" section. Maybe "set mount point" could be an option in the above suggested context menu. Also I think it might be nice if the partitioner could automagically create folders if you enter a mount point which doesn't exist. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org
On 5/21/07, Martin Schlander <suse@linuxin.dk> wrote:
Den Monday 21 May 2007 10:34:14 skrev Martin Schmidkunz:
after agreeing with you many times, that our partitioning module needs some facelift, I have created some mockups how this could look like:
Overall it looks like a definite improvement.
* Delete partition: the user needs to set the size of the partition on 0 MB.
I think that's rather strange. So you have to set slider to 0 > apply > then "start over". How about you can right click partitions in the overview above and "delete partition" is one of the context menu options.
Another thing, I think one of the most common tasks done with the partitioner on already installed systems is setting a mount point for existing partitions. Therefore I don't think it's a good idea to have the mount-point-thingy in the "manual partitioning" section. Maybe "set mount point" could be an option in the above suggested context menu.
Also I think it might be nice if the partitioner could automagically create folders if you enter a mount point which doesn't exist. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org
Instead of placing my comments in between each email because they all feature good points and there was a lot of replies I figured I would comment below: I would absolutely make sure there is no delete button or area for a newbie in the partition (as we all know hehe they would delete their other platform) (some would even do it just to see if it works). I have been moving people to SUSE from 8.1 and up and went pass 10.1 after my total nitemares with it until they fixed some areas. I was wondering how hard it would be to create a version within a version of SUSE. One for the absolute beginner and the other for intermediate or advanced users. Another words, during the beginning of the install one would have a choice to select either one to proceed. The selection of the beginner would bring up a install that is easy and fully explained while the other is self explainable to knowledgeable users. Once the disc gets by the partitioning and other technical areas it resorts to the usual SUSE installs. This way the IT would not have to see all the options the beginner would see. Just a idea. I realize this will take more space but I also figure it would also benefit the advanced user so they do not have to click or whatever by the options for the beginning user. George greenarrow1 InNetInvestigations-Forensic SuSe 10.2/TriStar/Apache GoBoLinux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
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Lukas Ocilka -
Martin Schlander -
Martin Schmidkunz -
Martin Schmidkunz -
member greenarrow1