Re: [SLE] -- 17 January 2000 NSA and Linux

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markgray＠iago.nac.net

23 Jan 2000 23 Jan '00

06:12

"John F. Eldredge" writes:

...

root@cups.cupserv.org [mailto:root@cups.cupserv.org]On Behalf Of Fred A. Miller wrote:

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The National Security Agency has contracted for a secure Linux operating system. http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/web-nsalinux-01-17-00.asp

I suspect that this WON'T be open source software. :)

Which brings up an interesting point about the GPL copyright -- if they modify the kernel, they are required to make all the source code available to their customers and they are required to put the derived program under the GPL copyright. (They cannot put _any_ additional restrictions on the distribution of the entire source code package.) And in fact they may well want to release their modifications, since it has become widely accepted that open scrutiny is the best way to (eventually) assure the quality of software security, and a secure and privacy protecting Internet has increasingly become a prime national concern. (They could, however produce binary only kernel modules -- but the type of security they are after would not be achievable without improvements to the core features of the kernel.) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/

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grtoft＠yahoo.com

23 Jan 23 Jan

17:03

New subject: [SLE] -- 17 January 2000 NSA and Linux

Mark Gray wrote:

...

"John F. Eldredge" writes:

...
root@cups.cupserv.org [mailto:root@cups.cupserv.org]On Behalf Of Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
The National Security Agency has contracted for a secure Linux operating system. http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/web-nsalinux-01-17-00.asp

I suspect that this WON'T be open source software. :)

Which brings up an interesting point about the GPL copyright -- if they modify the kernel, they are required to make all the source code available to their customers and they are required to put the derived program under the GPL copyright. (They cannot put _any_ additional restrictions on the distribution of the entire source code package.)

How do you define customer? The NSA is a government entity. If they install Linux on NSA Government computers, it would seem there are no customers and no redistribution has taken place. Then there's Bud's comment: "Bwaahaahaahaahaaaaaa!" You would expect moral behavior from an organization that has been working with Microsoft for almost 10 years on the ability to tap and trace any e-mail message sent from the Windows platform (I hope they don't kill me for saying that). Do we understand now why the Windows API is proprietary, and why the Chinese and French are on the verge of outlawing closed-source operating systems for their respective governments?

...

And in fact they may well want to release their modifications, since it has become widely accepted that open scrutiny is the best way to (eventually) assure the quality of software security, and a secure and privacy protecting Internet has increasingly become a prime national concern. (They could, however produce binary only kernel modules -- but the type of security they are after would not be achievable without improvements to the core features of the kernel.)

...

From a cloak and dagger standpoint (I've known a few spooks), this would not happen. They are more paranoid than I am, and any improvement they make they would keep to themselves as a strategic advantage over anyone else using the same platform (ie, the Chinese). Anyone who thinks the Chinese and the Russians are the NSA's friends is sadly mistaken. The cold war is not over - it has moved underground.

Nationalism is alive and well throughout the world. I am not a nationalist, nor a bigot, but having spent the last 20 years doing things that would get me imprisoned or killed (if caught) has given me a differnt perspective compared to those who believe CNN or the newspapers. Anyone wonder why I'm changing careers? -- George Toft http://www.georgetoft.com -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/

samelash＠ix.netcom.com

26 Jan 26 Jan

10:20

New subject: [SLE] -- 17 January 2000 NSA and Linux

At 07:03 AM 1/23/2000 -1000, George Toft wrote:

...

Mark Gray wrote:

...
"John F. Eldredge" writes:

...
root@cups.cupserv.org [mailto:root@cups.cupserv.org]On Behalf Of Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
The National Security Agency has contracted for a secure Linux operating system. http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/web-nsalinux-01-17-00.asp

I suspect that this WON'T be open source software. :)

Which brings up an interesting point about the GPL copyright -- if they modify the kernel, they are required to make all the source code available to their customers and they are required to put the derived program under the GPL copyright. (They cannot put _any_ additional restrictions on the distribution of the entire source code package.)

They just redistributed it to the other machines. Kind of like Mick$oft selling IE for free. They did not pay for it , so they are not a customer.

...

How do you define customer? The NSA is a government entity. If they install Linux on NSA Government computers, it would seem there are no customers and no redistribution has taken place.

Then there's Bud's comment: "Bwaahaahaahaahaaaaaa!" You would expect moral behavior from an organization that has been working with Microsoft for almost 10 years on the ability to tap and trace any e-mail message sent from the Windows platform (I hope they don't kill me for saying that). Do we understand now why the Windows API is proprietary, and why the Chinese and French are on the verge of outlawing closed-source operating systems for their respective governments?

...
And in fact they may well want to release their modifications, since it has become widely accepted that open scrutiny is the best way to (eventually) assure the quality of software security, and a secure and privacy protecting Internet has increasingly become a prime national concern. (They could, however produce binary only kernel modules -- but the type of security they are after would not be achievable without improvements to the core features of the kernel.)

From a cloak and dagger standpoint (I've known a few spooks), this would not happen. They are more paranoid than I am, and any improvement they make they would keep to themselves as a strategic advantage over anyone else using the same platform (ie, the Chinese). Anyone who thinks the Chinese and the Russians are the NSA's friends is sadly mistaken. The cold war is not over - it has moved underground.

Nationalism is alive and well throughout the world. I am not a nationalist, nor a bigot, but having spent the last 20 years doing things that would get me imprisoned or killed (if caught) has given me a differnt perspective compared to those who believe CNN or the newspapers.

Anyone wonder why I'm changing careers? -- George Toft http://www.georgetoft.com

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com

...

Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/

samelash＠ix.netcom.com

10:11

New subject: [SLE] -- 17 January 2000 NSA and Linux

At 01:12 AM 1/23/2000 -0500, Mark Gray wrote:

...

"John F. Eldredge" writes:

...
root@cups.cupserv.org [mailto:root@cups.cupserv.org]On Behalf Of Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
The National Security Agency has contracted for a secure Linux operating system. http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/web-nsalinux-01-17-00.asp

I suspect that this WON'T be open source software. :)

Which brings up an interesting point about the GPL copyright -- if they modify the kernel, they are required to make all the source code available to their customers and they are required to put the derived program under the GPL copyright. (They cannot put _any_ additional restrictions on the distribution of the entire source code package.) And in fact they may well want to release their modifications, since it has become widely accepted that open scrutiny is the best way to (eventually) assure the quality of software security, and a secure and privacy protecting Internet has increasingly become a prime national

Neat , then every one else can use it too. Thats kind of like the russians selling arms to the Chechens.

...

concern. (They could, however produce binary only kernel modules -- but the type of security they are after would not be achievable without improvements to the core features of the kernel.)

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com

...

Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/

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grtoft＠yahoo.com
markgray＠iago.nac.net
samelash＠ix.netcom.com