symbolic links howto

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Infra

22 Dec 2002 22 Dec '02

20:09

hi, this might be a dumb question but it's simple. how do you create symbolic links? thanks.... Thiago ---------------------------------------------- Visit my Music Band's web site @ www.71worship.com

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Dylan

22 Dec 22 Dec

20:15

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Sunday 22 December 2002 20:09, Infra wrote:

...

hi,

this might be a dumb question but it's simple. how do you create symbolic links?

Have a look at the man page for ln Dylan

...

thanks....

Thiago

---------------------------------------------- Visit my Music Band's web site @ www.71worship.com

-- "Sweet moderation Heart of this nation Desert us not, we are Between the wars"

Jeric

20:32

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Sun, 2002-12-22 at 14:09, Infra wrote:

...

this might be a dumb question but it's simple. how do you create symbolic links?

symbolic link: ln -s <existing-path> <link-path> hard link: ln <existing-path> <link-path> for more info do: man ln or: info ln -- JericAtSbcglobalDotNetwork 2:30pm up 32 days, 6:19, 8 users, load average: 1.42, 0.81, 0.37

Timothy Mason

21:51

New subject: [SLE] configuring cdrecorder with SuSe 7.2

I have been trying to set up the cdrecorder on my machine to do its job. I have consulted the manual as well as several documents on the web, and think that I have pretty much followed the routine : appending hdc & hdd =ide-scsi in the LILO configuration, chaning the "alias scsi_hostadapter" line in /etc/modules.conf as suggested in the manual (p. 126) and adding the line /sbin/modprobe ide-scsi to /etc/init.d/boot.local. (I didn't find this in the manual, but it does appear in several of the on-line HowTos - and in one of them is specified for 7.2) I then fixed the links (rm /dev/cdrom ; ln -s /dev/scdo /dev/cdrom) to both cdroms (hdc is a read-only dvd, while hdd is the recorder). The result is that I am unable to access either of them (both were readable before I did all this) Does anyone have any idea what it is that I am doing wrong? Thank you Timothy Mason

Linux World 999

21:12

New subject: [SLE] configuring cdrecorder with SuSe 7.2

On Sunday 22 December 2002 21:51, Timothy Mason wrote:

...

I have been trying to set up the cdrecorder on my machine to do its job. I have consulted the manual as well as several documents on the web, and think that I have pretty much followed the routine : appending hdc & hdd =ide-scsi in the LILO configuration, chaning the "alias scsi_hostadapter" line in /etc/modules.conf as suggested in the manual (p. 126) and adding the line /sbin/modprobe ide-scsi to /etc/init.d/boot.local. (I didn't find this in the manual, but it does appear in several of the on-line HowTos - and in one of them is specified for 7.2)

I then fixed the links (rm /dev/cdrom ; ln -s /dev/scdo /dev/cdrom) to both cdroms (hdc is a read-only dvd, while hdd is the recorder). The result is that I am unable to access either of them (both were readable before I did all this) Does anyone have any idea what it is that I am doing wrong?

Consult the SuSE support database with keyword "unable to mount cd/dvd". The article relates to 8.1 but could be relevant to your particular SuSE distro.

Timothy Mason

22:22

New subject: [SLE] configuring cdrecorder with SuSe 7.2

Linux World 999 wrote:

...

Consult the SuSE support database with keyword "unable to mount

cd/dvd". The

...

article relates to 8.1 but could be relevant to your particular SuSE distro.

Thank you. The search does not work with 'unable', as the article is filed as 'cannot mount cd/dvd'. Unfortunately, it is does not apply to earlier distributions. (I intend to buy 8.1, but wish to do a full back-up to cd beforehand, which is why I need to access the burner). Best wishes* Timothy Mason

Dylan

21:32

New subject: [SLE] configuring cdrecorder with SuSe 7.2

On Sunday 22 December 2002 21:51, Timothy Mason wrote:

...

I have been trying to set up the cdrecorder on my machine to do its job. I have consulted the manual as well as several documents on the web, and think that I have pretty much followed the routine : appending hdc & hdd =ide-scsi in the LILO configuration, chaning the "alias scsi_hostadapter" line in /etc/modules.conf as suggested in the manual (p. 126) and adding the line /sbin/modprobe ide-scsi to /etc/init.d/boot.local. (I didn't find this in the manual, but it does appear in several of the on-line HowTos - and in one of them is specified for 7.2)

I then fixed the links (rm /dev/cdrom ; ln -s /dev/scdo /dev/cdrom) to both cdroms (hdc is a read-only dvd, while hdd is the recorder). The result is that I am unable to access either of them (both were readable before I did all this) Does anyone have any idea what it is that I am doing wrong?

er, /dev/scdo? for a cd or dvd, you should only specify the device, not the partition, so it would be /dev/scd. Also, the device letter part will not necessarily be the same as the one for the ide interface. If these are the only scsi devices, they will be 0 (zero) and 1. Finally, are you sure it is /dev/scX? For me it is /dev/sr0 (=scsi recorder)for cdrecorder, but you may find it turns up as /dev/sdX or /dev/sgX (for scsi disk and scsi generic, respectively). Lastly there is no need to use ide-scsi for the read-only dvd. Dylan -- "Sweet moderation Heart of this nation Desert us not, we are Between the wars"

Timothy Mason

23 Dec 23 Dec

14:58

New subject: [SLE] configuring cdrecorder with SuSe 7.2

My thanks to those who reponded. The problem now seems to be fixed, mainly by following the instructions on the SuSe information page recommended by Patrick Smith. I had seen this page, but must have committed a mismanoeuvre at some stage while attempting to follow the procedure. Some comments - not nit-picking, I hope, but simply straightening things out for anyone who might have a similar problem and find themselves consulting this thread : At http://sdb.suse.de/en/sdb/html/tbraza_ide_brenner.html , you will read :

...

To mount the drives correctly, edit the file /etc/fstab . Change the CD writer line to

/dev/cdrecorder /media/cdrecorder auto ro,noauto,user,exec 0 0

The CD drive line should be similar to

/dev/cdrom /media/cdrom auto ro,noauto,user,exec 0 0

For versions up to 7.2, leave /media out and write /cdrecorder or /cdrom only.

I think that this would be clearer if it read : "For versions prior to, but not including 7.2, leave /media out" ... Dylan asked :

...

Finally, are you sure it is /dev/scX? For me it is /dev/sr0 (=scsi recorder)for cdrecorder, but you may find it turns up as /dev/sdX or /dev/sgX (for scsi disk and scsi generic, respectively).

There seem to be differences in this between versions 7.2 and 7.3. Both forms are to be found in /dev, but sc0 and sc1 work

...

Lastly there is no need to use ide-scsi for the read-only dvd.

Here I was following the manual. I understand that this is the usual way to do it - I believe it enables burning from one cd to another. Thanks again Timothy Mason

Linux World 999

22 Dec 22 Dec

20:44

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Sunday 22 December 2002 20:09, Infra wrote:

...

hi,

this might be a dumb question but it's simple. how do you create symbolic links?

The command is : ln -s <name of target> <name of link> Eg . There is a file called foo.1.2 and a file has to be created by the name of foo.1.0 and is exactly the same as foo.1.2 ln -s foo.1.2 foo.1.0 Hope this helps.

Infra

22:26

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

thanks for the info... i really appreciate it. helped very much... ---------------------------------------------- Visit my Music Band's web site @ www.71worship.com

jaakko tamminen

23 Dec 23 Dec

08:22

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

Hi ln <link-name-and-path> creates hard link ln -x creates soft link Soft link can not point to another partition, had can (basically You can treat hard link as a copy of the file). Soft link is only a short-cut to the file. It can also be a directory. Do "man ln", it will give much more information. Jaska. Viestissä Sunnuntai 22. Joulukuuta 2002 22:09, Infra kirjoitti:

...

hi,

this might be a dumb question but it's simple. how do you create symbolic links?

thanks....

Thiago

---------------------------------------------- Visit my Music Band's web site @ www.71worship.com

irvine＠vuosaari.hai.fi

22 Dec 22 Dec

20:31

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 10:22:48AM +0200, jaakko tamminen wrote:

...

Hi

ln <link-name-and-path> creates hard link ln -x creates soft link

Moi Shouldn't that be ln -s creates soft link ^^^ -- ...engage and the mind grows heated begin it, and the work will be completed. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

jaakko tamminen

23 Dec 23 Dec

08:54

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

Hi You are absolutely right, my typo... Xmas is too close, fingers are starting to wonder.. or is the cold that we have up here...? :-) Jaska. Viestissä Sunnuntai 22. Joulukuuta 2002 22:31, irvine@vuosaari.hai.fi kirjoitti:

...

On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 10:22:48AM +0200, jaakko tamminen wrote:

...
Hi

ln <link-name-and-path> creates hard link ln -x creates soft link

Moi

Shouldn't that be

ln -s creates soft link ^^^

SuSEnixER

03:15

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

* jaakko tamminen [12-22-02 20:29]:

...

ln <link-name-and-path> creates hard link ln -x creates soft link

Soft link can not point to another partition, had can (basically You can treat hard link as a copy of the file). Soft link is only a short-cut to the file.

The TOFU is getting confusing, but... A SOFT link MAY point to another partition. A HARD link MAY NOT. At least that is what my info file indicates. TOFU and proper quoting in email is explained in rfc 1855 and is presented at http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://home.indy.rr.com/paka @ http://counter.li.org icq#173753138

Rohit

07:26

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, SuSEnixER wrote:

...

...
Soft link can not point to another partition, had can (basically You can treat hard link as a copy of the file). Soft link is only a short-cut to the file. The TOFU is getting confusing, but... A SOFT link MAY point to another partition. A HARD link MAY NOT. At least that is what my info file indicates.

Let us put an end to it [I love this job - and hate the following flames for making obvious the obvious.]. 1. Hard links are as good as copies of a file. The contain the inode number based direct linkage. When the last hard link to a file/directory is deleted, the file is inaccessible on your FS. 2. Hard links can not be made to the directories. Only for files. 3. Hard links can not be made across filesystems - since the detail/index kept is inode. Inode X, and hard link referring to inode-X, shall redeference to same file on the same FS. While on different FSes, they shall refer to different target files. Or one of them may even not refer to a file at all. You could have thought you are deleting file-1 but in the end might end up deleting file-2. Hence hard-links across filesystems are not even tried to be implemented. 4. So - you have soft link for that purpose. I believe a soft link would contain absolute path of the file in it, rather than the inode-number [this is experienced the moment you do a chroot, all the symbolic links start screaming .. try it.] 5. You can have soft links refering to file across partitions, and soft links can have directories as targets. Rohit ********************************************************* Disclaimer This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************* Visit us at http://www.mahindrabt.com

Tom Emerson

08:43

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Sunday 22 December 2002 11:26 pm, Rohit wrote:

...

Let us put an end to it [I love this job - and hate the following flames for making obvious the obvious.].

4. So - you have soft link for that purpose. I believe a soft link would contain absolute path of the file in it, rather than the inode-number

to make it even more obvious, do a "-l" type listing of a file that is a soft link -- take note of the filesize in bytes, and count the number of characters in the link target. Repeat until it sinks in that these two numbers are identical :) draw your own conclusion as to the file contents if a "soft" link at that point ;)

...

[this is experienced the moment you do a chroot, all the symbolic links start screaming .. try it.]

actually, I did the following: tom@bigbro:~/> cd bin tom@bigbro:~/bin> ln -s ../check.sh borcheck.sh tom@bigbro:~/bin> l and got: total 3 drwxr-xr-x 2 tom 384 2002-12-23 00:32 ./ drwxr-xr-x 42 tom 3440 2002-12-23 00:31 ../ lrwxrwxrwx 1 tom 11 2002-12-23 00:32 borcheck.sh -> ../check.sh* since "../check.sh" is indeed 11 characters, and not the 18 it would take to describe "/home/tom/check.sh", it would appear symlinks CAN be localized [made to refer to a relative location rather than an absolute] Tom p.s. I think I snipped it, but what exactly is the case for "hard links" and "directories"? -- per the man & "info" pages, the super user can make these by using a "-d", "-F", or "--directory" option, which directly conflicts an earlier paragraph [in the "info" page] that says "on all existing implementations, you cannot make a hard link to a directory".

SuSEnixER

13:11

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

* Rohit [12-23-02 02:25]:

...

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, SuSEnixER wrote:

...
...
Soft link can not point to another partition, had can (basically You can treat hard link as a copy of the file). Soft link is only a short-cut to the file. The TOFU is getting confusing, but... A SOFT link MAY point to another partition. A HARD link MAY NOT. At least that is what my info file indicates.

Let us put an end to it [I love this job - and hate the following flames for making obvious the obvious.].

1. Hard links are as good as copies of a file. The contain the inode number based direct linkage. When the last hard link to a

I read the list and did NOT request a personal reply. Replying personally to a poster who has not specifically requested it is discourteous, unwarranted and in bad taste. Unless a person specifically requests a personal reply, just reply to the list. RFC 1855 available @: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html excerpt: - Be careful when you reply to messages or postings. Frequently replies are sent back to the address which originated the post - which in many cases is the address of a list or group! You may accidentally send a personal response to a great many people, embarrassing all involved. It's best to type in the address instead of relying on "reply." Your attention to this detail will be apreciated. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://home.indy.rr.com/paka @ http://counter.li.org icq#173753138

Ed Harrison

14:46

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

Perhaps the maintainers of the list should add a Reply-To: pointing to suse-linux-e@suse.com. Every time I click Reply, I have to delete the author of the message and add the address of the list. What a pain! On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 08:11, SuSEnixER wrote:

...

* Rohit [12-23-02 02:25]:

...
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, SuSEnixER wrote:

...
...
Soft link can not point to another partition, had can (basically You can treat hard link as a copy of the file). Soft link is only a short-cut to the file. The TOFU is getting confusing, but... A SOFT link MAY point to another partition. A HARD link MAY NOT. At least that is what my info file indicates.

Let us put an end to it [I love this job - and hate the following flames for making obvious the obvious.].

1. Hard links are as good as copies of a file. The contain the inode number based direct linkage. When the last hard link to a

I read the list and did NOT request a personal reply. Replying personally to a poster who has not specifically requested it is discourteous, unwarranted and in bad taste. Unless a person specifically requests a personal reply, just reply to the list.

RFC 1855 available @: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html excerpt: - Be careful when you reply to messages or postings. Frequently replies are sent back to the address which originated the post - which in many cases is the address of a list or group! You may accidentally send a personal response to a great many people, embarrassing all involved. It's best to type in the address instead of relying on "reply."

Your attention to this detail will be apreciated. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://home.indy.rr.com/paka @ http://counter.li.org icq#173753138 -- Ed Harrison

Bruce Marshall

14:58

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Monday 23 December 2002 9:46 am, Ed Harrison wrote:

...

Perhaps the maintainers of the list should add a Reply-To: pointing to suse-linux-e@suse.com.

Every time I click Reply, I have to delete the author of the message and add the address of the list. What a pain!

This 'problem' has been there forever and the maintainers claim that the way the list is setup is the 'way it should be set up'. In any event, most of us have found other ways around it... for instance a simple procmail recipe. :0f * ^X-Mailinglist: suse-linux-e | formail -bfi "Reply-To: SLE "

...

On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 08:11, SuSEnixER wrote:

...
* Rohit [12-23-02 02:25]:

...
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, SuSEnixER wrote:

...
...
Soft link can not point to another partition, had can (basically You can treat hard link as a copy of the file). Soft link is only a short-cut to the file.

The TOFU is getting confusing, but... A SOFT link MAY point to another partition. A HARD link MAY NOT. At least that is what my info file indicates.

Let us put an end to it [I love this job - and hate the following flames for making obvious the obvious.].

1. Hard links are as good as copies of a file. The contain the inode number based direct linkage. When the last hard link to a

I read the list and did NOT request a personal reply. Replying personally to a poster who has not specifically requested it is discourteous, unwarranted and in bad taste. Unless a person specifically requests a personal reply, just reply to the list.

RFC 1855 available @: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html excerpt: - Be careful when you reply to messages or postings. Frequently replies are sent back to the address which originated the post - which in many cases is the address of a list or group! You may accidentally send a personal response to a great many people, embarrassing all involved. It's best to type in the address instead of relying on "reply."

Your attention to this detail will be apreciated. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://home.indy.rr.com/paka @ http://counter.li.org icq#173753138

-- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 12/23/02 09:56 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "He who uses bad language is an ignorant schmuck."

zentara

16:55

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:58:31 -0500 Bruce Marshall wrote:

...

On Monday 23 December 2002 9:46 am, Ed Harrison wrote:

...
Perhaps the maintainers of the list should add a Reply-To: pointing to suse-linux-e@suse.com.

Every time I click Reply, I have to delete the author of the message and add the address of the list. What a pain!

This 'problem' has been there forever and the maintainers claim that the way the list is setup is the 'way it should be set up'.

In any event, most of us have found other ways around it... for instance a simple procmail recipe.

:0f * ^X-Mailinglist: suse-linux-e | formail -bfi "Reply-To: SLE "

The newer versions of Sylpheed also work well with the list when you hit reply. It only fails on a few mails where the sender has a specific reply-to address in the header, like yours. :-) -- use Perl; #powerful programmable prestidigitation

SuSEnixER

15:30

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

* Ed Harrison [12-23-02 09:48]:

...

Perhaps the maintainers of the list should add a Reply-To: pointing to suse-linux-e@suse.com.

Every time I click Reply, I have to delete the author of the message and add the address of the list. What a pain!

On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 08:11, SuSEnixER wrote:

...
* Rohit [12-23-02 02:25]:

...
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, SuSEnixER wrote:

RFC 1855 available @: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html excerpt: - Be careful when you reply to messages or postings. Frequently replies are sent back to the address which originated the post - which in many cases is the address of a list or group! You may accidentally send a personal response to a great many people, embarrassing all involved. It's best to type in the address instead of relying on "reply."

You don't say what email client/version/etc you are using so one must guess your conditions, but the header indicates that it might be evolution. If that is the case, perhaps by reading the manual (RTFM). There was a thread earlier in this mail-list: Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 16:14:27 +0100 From: Clayton Cornell To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: [SLE] Can Evolution1.2.1 handle mailing lists like KMail can? Message-Id: <200212221614.27110.c.cornell@chello.nl> replied to: Date: 22 Dec 2002 16:21:25 +0100 From: wolfi To: "SuSE List (english)" Subject: Re: [SLE] Can Evolution1.2.1 handle mailing lists like KMail can? Message-Id: <1040570485.6934.0.camel@linux.local> In-Reply-To: <200212221614.27110.c.cornell@chello.nl> References: <200212221614.27110.c.cornell@chello.nl> On Sun, 2002-12-22 at 16:14, Clayton Cornell wrote:

...

I am doing a bit of experimentation with Evolution, and have run across a question I can't answer yet.... can Evolution1.2.1 handle mailing lists like KMail can? Does anyone know if this is possible

Hi Clayton, Evolution has the 'reply to list' function. So no manual changing of recipients is necessary Cheers .... Wolfi An explaination of TOFU is: Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:19:04 -0700 From: Christopher Mahmood Message-ID: <20020605181904.GI20357@hades.oak.suse.com> Subject: Re: [SLE] Please stop TOFU * Tom Nielsen (tom@neuro-logic.com) [020605 11:12]:

...

What does TOFU mean?

"Text oben full quote unten" (sorry if I misspelled that). It's the Jeopardy-style follow-ups that so many people seem to think are OK. I.e., instead of you replying to post of mine by carefully trimming the amount of the text you quote and then add your follow-up below it, you add your answer and then quote my entire email below. It's amazingly rude and ugly, even worse than Cc'ing a poster when replying to the list. Your attention to this detail will be appreciated. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://home.indy.rr.com/paka @ http://counter.li.org icq#173753138

rex

16:49

New subject: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU

Ed Harrison [2002-12-23 07:22]:

...

Perhaps the maintainers of the list should add a Reply-To: pointing to suse-linux-e@suse.com.

Every time I click Reply, I have to delete the author of the message and add the address of the list. What a pain!

1) You apparently don't know enough about your MUA to reply to a list. Good MUAs allow replying to the author of the post, to the list, or both. RTFM. List software should NOT mung a Reply-To: header. See: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html 2) You hijacked a thread (what does Reply-To: have to do with symbolic links?) If you want to post about Reply-To, start a new thread instead of replying to a previous message on a different topic. 3) Your TOFU post is yet another sign of ignorance. see: http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/2002-Jun/0537.html Some helpful URLs: http://learn.to/edit_messages http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html -rex -- It is hard to understand how a cemetery raised its burial cost and blamed it on the cost of living.

SuSEnixER

17:08

New subject: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU

* rex [12-23-02 11:52]:

...

Ed Harrison [2002-12-23 07:22]:

...
Perhaps the maintainers of the list should add a Reply-To: pointing to suse-linux-e@suse.com.

Every time I click Reply, I have to delete the author of the message and add the address of the list. What a pain!

1) You apparently don't know enough about your MUA to reply to a list. Good MUAs allow replying to the author of the post, to the list, or both. RTFM.

List software should NOT mung a Reply-To: header. See: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

2) You hijacked a thread (what does Reply-To: have to do with symbolic links?) If you want to post about Reply-To, start a new thread instead of replying to a previous message on a different topic.

3) Your TOFU post is yet another sign of ignorance. see: http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/2002-Jun/0537.html

Some helpful URLs: http://learn.to/edit_messages http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Perhaps you didn't need to use the 16lb hammer, 12oz would have been plenty. But he _didn't_ hijack the thread. His question followed the previous response in the thread. I probably should have ammended the thread with my response since it gave a second direction. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://home.indy.rr.com/paka @ http://counter.li.org icq#173753138

Vince Littler

19:45

New subject: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU & Bloody Hell top posting is so microsoftish AGAIN

On Monday 23 December 2002 4:49 pm, rex wrote: [Text repeated at the bottom to [dis]please those who hate top posting] Groan. If I can think of 1 ignorant thing I see on this list it is this old top posting is so microsoftish crap. Goodness, some people must be so insecure if they keep on having to rake up this wretched old chestnut. I have only put 1 question to the list and been roundly ignored [months ago - I have lost interest in an answer], but like some others I can accept that I have no right toan answer. What I find really galling is having self righteous zealot drivel on this top or bottom posting issue, together with smug urls on how to do it right filling my in box, as the price for no answer. Go to hell with this top vs bottom posting issue, it is so 'go and get a life'-ish Vince Littler

...

3) Your TOFU post is yet another sign of ignorance. see: http://lists.suse.com/archive/suse-linux-e/2002-Jun/0537.html

Some helpful URLs: http://learn.to/edit_messages http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

-rex

[Text repeated at the top to [dis]please those who hate bottom posting] Groan. If I can think of 1 ignorant thing I see on this list it is this old top posting is so microsoftish crap. Goodness, some people must be so insecure if they keep on having to rake up this wretched old chestnut. I have only put 1 question to the list and been roundly ignored [months ago - I have lost interest in an answer], but like some others I can accept that I have no right toan answer. What I find really galling is having self righteous zealot drivel on this top or bottom posting issue, together with smug urls on how to do it right filling my in box, as the price for no answer. Go to hell with this top vs bottom posting issue, it is so 'go and get a life'-ish Vince Littler

Chris Geske

20:33

New subject: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU & Bloody Hell top posting is so microsoftish AGAIN

I agree completely. It seems there's more whining on this list lately than there is help. My last three posts were also ignored. To me they seemed like legitimate questions since there is no manual to read about what I was working on, no help on google, no help on mailing lists, etc. It seems you really have to kiss some a** to get things answered on this list. In fact, I've never had a question answered on this list ever. I'm also sick of these people flagging messages so they can't be read in Outlook, how childish! The computer I work on has some data acquisition software running that only runs on Windows. So I use Outlook to read the list. What's the big deal. I'm not a windows/microsoft fan, quite the opposite, but I have to use a windows machine to run this data acquisition software, and it's the best place for me to read mail. chris

...

-----Original Message----- From: Vince Littler [mailto:suse@archipelago.u-net.com] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:45 PM To: suse-linux-e Subject: Re: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU & Bloody Hell top posting is so microsoftish AGAIN

On Monday 23 December 2002 4:49 pm, rex wrote:

[Text repeated at the bottom to [dis]please those who hate top posting]

Groan. If I can think of 1 ignorant thing I see on this list it is this old top posting is so microsoftish crap. Goodness, some people must be so insecure if they keep on having to rake up this wretched old chestnut. I have only put 1 question to the list and been roundly ignored [months ago - I have lost interest in an answer], but like some others I can accept that I have no right toan answer. What I find really galling is having self righteous zealot drivel on this top or bottom posting issue, together with smug urls on how to do it right filling my in box, as the price for no answer.

Go to hell with this top vs bottom posting issue, it is so 'go and get a life'-ish

Vince Littler

jaakko tamminen

24 Dec 24 Dec

22:58

New subject: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU & Bloody Hell top posting is so microsoftish AGAIN

Hi If it is true, that people are indeed flagging messages to be unreadable in Outlook, I would engourage people to either block those users, or ban the whole list until they start to behave again... We are NOT against M$, but developing users understanding of Linux here... I agree to the fact, that whining seems to be a big deal here, because some of users seem to value themselves higher than others do. Pointing to solution is not an answer. Okay, sometimes if the answer is very long, then a link is recommended, but not to a simple question, when it can be answered with few lines. I always do answer, if I know the answer, else I don't reply, just to keep the amount of messages to minimum. So You are not alone with Your complains, and I think people should really listen to You too, so that this list could be made even better than it is! Jaska. Viestissä Maanantai 23. Joulukuuta 2002 22:33, Chris Geske kirjoitti:

...

I agree completely. It seems there's more whining on this list lately than there is help.

My last three posts were also ignored. To me they seemed like legitimate questions since there is no manual to read about what I was working on, no help on google, no help on mailing lists, etc. It seems you really have to kiss some a** to get things answered on this list. In fact, I've never had a question answered on this list ever.

I'm also sick of these people flagging messages so they can't be read in Outlook, how childish! The computer I work on has some data acquisition software running that only runs on Windows. So I use Outlook to read the list. What's the big deal. I'm not a windows/microsoft fan, quite the opposite, but I have to use a windows machine to run this data acquisition software, and it's the best place for me to read mail.

chris

...
-----Original Message----- From: Vince Littler [mailto:suse@archipelago.u-net.com] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:45 PM To: suse-linux-e Subject: Re: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU & Bloody Hell top posting is so microsoftish AGAIN

On Monday 23 December 2002 4:49 pm, rex wrote:

[Text repeated at the bottom to [dis]please those who hate top posting]

Groan. If I can think of 1 ignorant thing I see on this list it is this old top posting is so microsoftish crap. Goodness, some people must be so insecure if they keep on having to rake up this wretched old chestnut. I have only put 1 question to the list and been roundly ignored [months ago - I have lost interest in an answer], but like some others I can accept that I have no right toan answer. What I find really galling is having self righteous zealot drivel on this top or bottom posting issue, together with smug urls on how to do it right filling my in box, as the price for no answer.

Go to hell with this top vs bottom posting issue, it is so 'go and get a life'-ish

Vince Littler

Alexandr Malusek

25 Dec 25 Dec

20:56

New subject: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU & Bloody Hell top posting is so microsoftish AGAIN

"Chris Geske" writes:

...

My last three posts were also ignored.

They are not ignored; people just don't know the answer and therefore don't reply. The number of people who can solve more complicated problems is limited and they often cannot afford to spend 3 hours or more reproducing someone's installation problem.

...

To me they seemed like legitimate questions since there is no manual to read about what I was working on, no help on google, no help on mailing lists, etc.

General lists like suse-linux-e are good for solving easy problems encountered by beginners. A specialized lists or the SuSE Linux Maintenance & Support services are better in other cases. I use Linux at work and I hope SuSE will provide software support services like Sun or SGI. Right now, SuSE's commercial services are rather product-oriented (Enterprise server, Firewall on CD, ...) where a solution can be guaranteed. I miss a general support. My idea is: If SuSE failed to find a solution then I would probably fail too. If they found it then my time would be saved. -- Alexandr.Malusek@imv.liu.se

Nick Zentena

23 Dec 23 Dec

21:28

New subject: [SLE] Reply-To, hijacking threads, & TOFU & Bloody Hell top posting is so microsoftish AGAIN

On December 23, 2002 02:45 pm, Vince Littler wrote:

...

On Monday 23 December 2002 4:49 pm, rex wrote:

[Text repeated at the bottom to [dis]please those who hate top posting]

Groan. If I can think of 1 ignorant thing I see on this list it is this old top posting is so microsoftish crap. Goodness, some people must be so insecure if they keep on having to rake up this wretched old chestnut. I have only put 1 question to the list and been roundly ignored [months ago -

Doesn't the list software just delete any message with top posting? I don't see any. Nick

Rafael E. Herrera

24 Dec 24 Dec

14:23

New subject: [SLE] symbolic links howto

Rohit wrote:

...

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, SuSEnixER wrote:

...
...
Soft link can not point to another partition, had can (basically You can treat hard link as a copy of the file). Soft link is only a short-cut to the file. The TOFU is getting confusing, but... A SOFT link MAY point to another partition. A HARD link MAY NOT. At least that is what my info file indicates.

Let us put an end to it [I love this job - and hate the following flames for making obvious the obvious.].

1. Hard links are as good as copies of a file. The contain the inode number based direct linkage. When the last hard link to a file/directory is deleted, the file is inaccessible on your FS.

A hard link IS the same file, it's not a copy. Files in UNIX are ultimately handled internally as inodes. The string that we use to refer to them is for user interaction. See the man pages and the -i option when listing a directory with hard links. -- Rafael

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19 participants

participants (19)

Alexandr Malusek
Bruce Marshall
Chris Geske
Dylan
Ed Harrison
Infra
irvine＠vuosaari.hai.fi
jaakko tamminen
Jeric
Linux World 999
Nick Zentena
Rafael E. Herrera
rex
Rohit
SuSEnixER
Timothy Mason
Tom Emerson
Vince Littler
zentara