A rough glance over the forum would indicate that iTunes, CAD and various mobile phone interfacing/management tools. (xxx PC Suite).

iTunes is a really sticky point for a lot of people... a couple I have been helping migrate to openSUSE have got hung up on this recently. Songbird comes really close in interface, but as usual... as in the same as with Banshee, Amarok etc etc... it only works with a few iPods... cannot find the iPhone and so on... plus without iTunes you cannot properly manage your iPhone.. no firmware upgrades for example (in my experience using VMware or VBox to flash your iPhone is a great way to break it - the 4 or 6 reboots the iPhone does during a firmware flash don't work correctly because the Linux host intercepts the USB device before handing off to the VM... and that breaks the flash process). iTunes for Linux (or some fully compatible equivalent that is more than a media player that looks iTunes-ish) would be a huge improvement for the casual desktop user.

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc.

Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 11:10 -0500, Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

<snip>

...

...

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc. Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought. I've been using Quasar Accounting from http://www.linuxcanada.com/ for about 9 years for my business.

Awesome. Back when our area had a lively weekly LUG we sought in vain for someone to do a presentation, or even a review, on Quasar Accounting. This accounting-package question came up allot and Quasar has had a site on the Internet for a decade without ever getting the spot-lite; sad really. Does it work well? What type of business do you operate? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

<snip>

...

...

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc.

Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought.

C.

I've been using Quasar Accounting from http://www.linuxcanada.com/ for about 9 years for my business.

I'm pretty certain I've come across that one whilst googling - plus at least one or two others. I'll have to double check, but I think there are three things that have kept us from using them - UTF-8 support multiple currency ditto variable VAT rates ditto. Secondary: lack of HBCI support lack of plugin support (for writing our own BESR slips for instance). /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (25.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

What do you use for a tax package? This is, IMHO, the 1 thing that keeps small to large business from moving to Linux!

Depends on the country :-) The Netherlands has a Linux native tax application that they developed/released due to public demand etc.: http://www.belastingdienst.nl/particulier/aangifte2008/download/ C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton wrote:

...

What do you use for a tax package? This is, IMHO, the 1 thing that keeps small to large business from moving to Linux!

Depends on the country :-) The Netherlands has a Linux native tax application that they developed/released due to public demand etc.: http://www.belastingdienst.nl/particulier/aangifte2008/download/

If it's open source, then someone should be able to make the changes needed for the US! Fred -- "Where's The Birth Certificate?" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Thursday July 16 2009, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

...

If it's open source, then someone should be able to make the changes needed for the US!

This has come up before. Tax preparation software, if it's to be more useful than just a generic spreadsheet, must embody the tax code, and that makes it very labor intensive to maintain and that labor takes the form of people who have considerable expertise in the tax laws reading and understanding the tax code and tracking the annual changes that congress makes to those laws.

It's just not the sort of thing that's practical for open-source software. Nor would I want to trust an amateur's encoding of the tax laws to guide the creation of my tax return.

I think I could trust something like this if it had a very public face and I had reason to beleive a lot of people kept an eye on it. Something like a GrokTax/GrokLaw plus wikipedia plus sourceforge plus nice web front-end to to the cvs or git repository. Perhaps a meta language or use some existing higher level language that would be especially well suited to express the tax code instead of straight C and anyone with an account can edit that part of the app directly right in the mediawiki interface just like any other wiki page. The ease of editing in the wiki interface, the ease of reading/understanding by using a special-purpose language for the core logic, should engcourage more eyes to to review it and find problems. The rest of the app can still be developed in whatever traditional language and using normal checkout/checkin/build/package/publish ala sourceforge. The GrokTax part comes in to provide public reference and help understanding the current (tax) code. Perhaps that can be a separate site and the tax code parts of the app can be peppered with links to the relevant bits on groktax? both the wikified parts of the code and groktax would have to have a feature to allow each little thing to have an associated discussion so toss in phpbb or similar in there... It all assumes a whole lot of people giving lots of their time, but the idea is the more effortless you make it to look at and edit, the more people will to do so. (parse that both ways) Certainly enough people are interested. It just requires a facility whereby a thousand people can each dip in and give a few minutes or hours of their time or particular expertise effortlessly. If that were true, you get a thousand hours of time and at least some of those from real experts even if all they do is look over what someone else wrote and then just agree it's ok or they make some change, or if they're not coders they can just describe a change in a comment/discussion that a coder can then implement. The expert ends up helping invaluably without it costing him much time or effort. Under that kind of system I would risk using the open source app. In fact... It seems to me that this is exactly a service the government should be supplying, complete with full time official tax code experts and programmers whose full time job is just to work on this site. The government should be making it easy for us to conform to whatever rules it wants us to conform to. I'd rather pay advisors and facilitators and result in more people willingly staying within the law than enforcement operatives and penal systems and result in more people having to be hunted down and their lives ruined. There should really be no market for TurboTax. It's a job the government should be doing right along and in parallel with writing tax code in the first place. And if expressing the tax code in software is too monstrous of a task for a government funded agency, then that simply means they should not have allowed the tax code to get so crazy in the first place. Making it a requirement that the same people that write and enforce tax laws also write a public and free web site that is guaranteed to be legally acceptable (ie: even if the site errors, if you used the site to file, then you are off the hook no matter what it did, however you may opt not to use it's output if you think it made an error not in your favor) then that would form a nice self-adjusting feedback system to keep the app/site working and the tax code reasonably sane. Further enhancements? A dynamic image on the main page that provides some sort of simplified graphic rendition of the overall app, and each year when new tax laws come out the entire thing is colored red and new stubs added (red) for new tax code that has no equal in the previous year. As people go through and look over the existing app code and square it with the tax code, chunks get marked green. The app is not considered usable until all parts are green. Each year may start out as a copy of the previous years app but other than that each years app is a seperate app that only applies to that year. So it's not like a normal app that just continually progresses. It's a sequence of distinct apps that each do a similar but distinct job, which is filing taxes for one particular year only, according to that particular years laws. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday July 16 2009, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

In <200907161322.00011.rschulz@sonic.net>, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Nor would I want to trust an amateur's encoding of the tax laws to guide the creation of my tax return.

While there are amateurs involved in open-source projects, there are also plenty of professionals.

Software professionals, sure. Tax lawyers and accountants? That would surprise me a bit. I'd be shocked if there were enough of them to do an acceptable job at it. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday July 17 2009, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Thursday July 16 2009, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

...

While there are amateurs involved in open-source projects, there are also plenty of professionals.

Software professionals, sure. Tax lawyers and accountants? That would surprise me a bit. I'd be shocked if there were enough of them to do an acceptable job at it.

While I don't know any, I also don't know of any projects looking for them.

I don't see any a priori reason professionals in those fields would avoid open-source projects.

Mindset. Software engineers who will commit their efforts to open-source do so because of their passion for their craft. Accountants and lawyers do what they do 'cause they want to make as much money as they can. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

In <200907161322.00011.rschulz@sonic.net>, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Nor would I want to trust an amateur's encoding of the tax laws to guide the creation of my tax return.

While there are amateurs involved in open-source projects, there are also plenty of professionals.

This may be true, but as to the feasibility/probability of getting it right, and the consequences thereof: My wife has prepared both individual and business taxes for clients for many years, both before and after she passed her CPA exam, and has tried many of the "industry standard" solutions, both those for professionals and those for the general public. And every year she finds that she must wait til near the end of the yearly cycle to file for her clients, because the software is still being corrected/updated right up to almost the deadline. Often they are subtle bugs, but often, too, they involve significant errors or changes. And US tax law makes you, the taxpayer, ultimately liable for any errors in your tax submission. And the preparer as well, if a professional is paid to prepare it. In light of that, and the fact that the big players have individuals dedicated fulltime to just tracing/testing and verifying last minute changes to the tax code, there is just no way to get volunteers to meet or beat that level of effort to obtain accuracy, quality and ease of use. There is simply no way to ensure that an opensource project could or would be able to muster that kind of deadline-oriented, detail-oriented effort every year. And there is little likelihood that any preparer, whether a business, an individual, or a tax preparer, would accept the liability for any errors that crept in due to the use of software that had not gotten those last-minute bugfixes and/or code changes. Added to all that, every few years, the IRS waits until almost the last minute, due to Congressional constraints beyond their control, before publishing the final version of the tax computations for that tax year. As much as I like Linux, I would either run a commercial package (where at least you can hide behind the idea that lots of people got a similar buggy program), or would hire a professional to take either my paper financial data or my computer files of my financial data, and compute my taxes from that data. The only way I see this working in Linux is either a government initiative that explicitly is required to be open source, or someone leveraging a Linux based tax solution into a commercialized version of opensource, similar to Tripwire, or perhaps Mozilla, where revenue for staff can be obtained on a regular basis. Because without individuals dedicated to both taxcode interpretation (the formulae per se are never published, just the legalese that was mandated by Congress), and other individuals dedicated to either some form of input table maintenance or code maintenance, it just won't "gel". Besides the inherent complexity of a wiki-based solution for tax formulas, what about the issue of how conflicting wiki entries will be resolved? Imagine if using Wikipedia had major financial impact on users, and there was no dedicated Wikipedia staff to research and resolve issues of accuracy, etc. Would you trust it at all under those circumstances? And do you trust Wikipedia (as opposed to using it as a form of sophisticated knowledge search engine that has to be verified independently), even as it is today? Build a Linux-based tax product that can be sold as an appliance, similar to firewall appliances, and that is cheap and easily networked for small offices (without technicians!) and if you make it cheap enough, perhaps, a very BIG PERHAPS, enough tax preparers would buy into it, once it reached a critical mass and was able to support a research and update staff similar to, e.g., TaxAct. And I can't imagine anyone being able to raise enough VC to fund the liftoff to that level of critical mass, not in today's world. To steal from Archimedes, there is no royal road to simple, easy to build and use, opensource tax software that is also accurate enough to avoid penalties and or lost deductions at a very high percentage of success. And if it isn't at least 99.99% right, with a bound on the size of errors as well (an impossible condition in itself), it is not a smart move. After all, when your competitive alternative can deliver this sort of thing for $20 to $40 dollars, and a tax preparer can and will do a decent sized small business for a few hundred dollars, where does the big savings come from that makes people want to switch? (And most of the cost is usually in the hand-holding and "shoe-box" organizing a tax preparer must do -- and that doesn't go away with Linux -- so the actual dollars of cost you could reduce are minimal. Sorry, but I think that that is one field of dreams that you could build, and still very few would come...if any, other than those committed to the project. Dan Notice: This communication, including attachments, may contain confidential or proprietary information to be conveyed solely for the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or if you otherwise received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. The unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this e-mail, including attachments, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 16 July 2009 22:44:06 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

In <200907161322.00011.rschulz@sonic.net>, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Nor would I want to trust an amateur's encoding of the tax laws to guide the creation of my tax return.

While there are amateurs involved in open-source projects, there are also plenty of professionals.

In the UK, the HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs) encourage both individuals and businesses to file online. See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/index.htm Bob -- Registered Linux User #463880 FSFE Member #1300 GPG-FP: A6C1 457C 6DBA B13E 5524 F703 D12A FB79 926B 994E openSUSE 11.1, Kernel 2.6.27.21-0.1-default, KDE 4.2.4 Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz, 4GB DDR RAM, nVidia GeForce 9200GS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2009-07-16 at 14:30 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

Clayton wrote:

...

...

What do you use for a tax package? This is, IMHO, the 1 thing that keeps small to large business from moving to Linux!

Depends on the country :-) The Netherlands has a Linux native tax application that they developed/released due to public demand etc.: http://www.belastingdienst.nl/particulier/aangifte2008/download/

If it's open source, then someone should be able to make the changes needed for the US!

Yes, but said person would have to be both a tax accountant and a programmer, but frankly Fred, I'd prefer my tax software to be commercial, I want that accountability to Revenue Canada on their part.

On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 16:35 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

...

<snip>

...

...

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc. Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought. I've been using Quasar Accounting from http://www.linuxcanada.com/ for about 9 years for my business. What do you use for a tax package? This is, IMHO, the 1 thing that keeps small to large business from moving to Linux!

It certainly would be nice to have, but every single SOHO/SMB I know of out sources their tax prep; they just provide some CPA or firm copies of their records. So I don't think lack of tax software has much of an impact on LINUX adoption. -- OpenGroupware developer: awilliam@whitemice.org http://whitemiceconsulting.blogspot.com/ OpenGroupare & Cyrus IMAPd documenation @ http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/whitemice/wmogag/file_view -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2009-07-16 at 17:11 +0200, Verner Kjærsgaard wrote:
> > It certainly would be nice to have,  but every single SOHO/SMB I know of
> > out sources their tax prep; they just provide some CPA or firm copies of
> > their records.  So I don't think lack of tax software has much of an
> > impact on LINUX adoption.
> - at least for Denmark, let me tell you otherwise....

Ok, I only know about the USA.  Most companies here are required to have
auditors and very frequently that company handles the taxes in
conjunction with the internal accounting dept.

> - You can do anything with Linux, but NOT your bookeeping (we're talking
> real businesses here, not privately).

Sort of. Most larger organizations (>500 employees) use ERP packages and
not straight-up accounting packages.  ERP packages are usually
specialized to the industry and there are numerous ERP systems that run
on LINUX / UNIX [Oracle's entire stack, for example as well as numerous
COBOL systems, Irium, and Open Source ERPs like OpenBravo or OpenERP].
There are numerous options for medium sized businesses.

> MS is completely DOMINANT with Navision/Dynamics (former Navigator) in
> this country.

Here in the US rust-belt I've never seen an install of Navision.

-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org
For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller wrote:

Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

...

<snip>

...

...

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc.

Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought.

C.

I've been using Quasar Accounting from http://www.linuxcanada.com/ for about 9 years for my business.

What do you use for a tax package? This is, IMHO, the 1 thing that keeps small to large business from moving to Linux!

Thanks,

Fred

Since I'm from the US, I use TaxAct for yearly taxes. (So I use Windows once a year using Virtual Box) Interestingly, when I first got started, I talked to my tax man and he said that it would be great to setup your accounting package to reflect the US 1040 Schedule C form. So I did. Quasar lets you build your own COA, so I built it to completely resemble to US 1040 Schedule C form - even to include the forms line numbers. So just copy the numbers to the form and I'm done. Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 16 July 09, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

In <4A5F4F5F.3010909@att.net>, Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

...

Since I'm from the US, I use TaxAct for yearly taxes. (So I use Windows once a year using Virtual Box)

Why? I've filed using TaxAct for the last 3 or 4 years using their web application and firefox/iceweasel. (Actually, it worked in konqueror one year.)

Correct. I used the web based one also, with Konqueror only, a few times before I became disabled. Worked perfectly. -- "Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once." - Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 21:43 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

JB2 wrote:

...

On 16 July 09, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

...

In <4A5F4F5F.3010909@att.net>, Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

...

Since I'm from the US, I use TaxAct for yearly taxes. (So I use Windows once a year using Virtual Box) Why? I've filed using TaxAct for the last 3 or 4 years using their web application and firefox/iceweasel. (Actually, it worked in konqueror one year.)

Correct. I used the web based one also, with Konqueror only, a few times before I became disabled. Worked perfectly.

Individuals using a web tax package isn't a major problem, it's BUSINESS that wants a native Linux package.

It should be individuals as well. This is the kind of sensitive info that cannot be trusted to someones server.

On Thu, 2009-07-16 at 11:03 -0500, Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

Duaine & Laura Hechler wrote:

...

<snip>

...

...

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc.

Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought.

C.

I've been using Quasar Accounting from http://www.linuxcanada.com/ for about 9 years for my business.

What do you use for a tax package? This is, IMHO, the 1 thing that keeps small to large business from moving to Linux!

Thanks,

Fred

Since I'm from the US, I use TaxAct for yearly taxes. (So I use Windows once a year using Virtual Box)

Interestingly, when I first got started, I talked to my tax man and he said that it would be great to setup your accounting package to reflect the US 1040 Schedule C form.

So I did. Quasar lets you build your own COA, so I built it to completely resemble to US 1040 Schedule C form - even to include the forms line numbers. So just copy the numbers to the form and I'm done.

I wonder if H&R Blocks tax software is available for Linux. I know they advertise importing from QuickTax, and this would be one less app the keep Windows around for. (Oddly enough, the other app is fax software.)

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Friday, 2009-07-17 at 01:17 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:

...

I wonder if H&R Blocks tax software is available for Linux. I know they advertise importing from QuickTax, and this would be one less app the keep Windows around for. (Oddly enough, the other app is fax software.)

There is a very good fax software in Linux.

Yes indeed. I guess it might depend on how much you use fax'es, but for the casual reception and sending of faxes, Hylafax does an excellent job. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.3°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Friday, 2009-07-17 at 11:02 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

...

...

...

the keep Windows around for. (Oddly enough, the other app is fax software.)

There is a very good fax software in Linux.

Yes indeed. I guess it might depend on how much you use fax'es, but for the casual reception and sending of faxes, Hylafax does an excellent job.

Casual? Many people use hylafax for business setups, and no small use.

Me too, but I don't use faxes a lot, so I couldn't make a comment based on other than casual use. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.3°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2009-07-18 at 01:24 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:

On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 11:02 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Friday, 2009-07-17 at 01:17 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:

...

I wonder if H&R Blocks tax software is available for Linux. I know they advertise importing from QuickTax, and this would be one less app the keep Windows around for. (Oddly enough, the other app is fax software.)

There is a very good fax software in Linux.

Yes indeed. I guess it might depend on how much you use fax'es, but for the casual reception and sending of faxes, Hylafax does an excellent job.

We're faxing about 7 times a year, all to one g'ment office dealing with a disabled child. It's not that faxing is difficult, but the Boss needs to be able to do it, and when I had the WinModem installed, well they just don't fax under Linux. :(

Obviously, winmodems only work under windows. But real modems work everywhere. This is the same with a lot of hardware, you have to buy having linux support in mind. Wit proper hardware, the linux fax software is very good: with hylafax, for instance, you can fax from any machine in the network, something the windows software that usually comes with the machines don't do. Ie, hylafax is server class software. For casual use it can be an overkill, though. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkphiMUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WuiwCbB6HMgrYnVPNfojBO+CwJKmc8 BtAAn3HflGbQwzolgUrY4t8jXMtpKRtU =cqCB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2009-07-18 at 01:20 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:

...

There is a very good fax software in Linux.

Yes I know, and now that I've got 11.1 recognizing the hardware modem, I will get it properly set up. Rum setup that, I had to actually fake a modem config, then install wvdial and a few other things, before it (YaST) actually found the modem and configured it.

Weird. But I don't think you need any of that for hylafax to recognize it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkphiRIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W5MwCfZY6wZMHRnsIl5o4JhhFeCvJ5 vp8An24yQ7fMnR95ivY/hFGSwEgazgT8 =fUIx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller wrote:

That I can answer for you....NO, it isn't available for Linux. FAX software isn't the "big deal" it once was for a lot of people now they have their phone service running on a digital line. FAX machines and modems ALL use analog....won't work.

Fred

Actually, that's not correct. The phone network has been digital, except for the "last mile" for many years and has carried fax & modems just fine. It is even possible to use them with voice over IP. Some digital phones even have a modem jack, just for that purpose. If your digital phone is connected to a digital PBX, then you can get an adapter that emulates a digital phone, but connects to an analog device. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mike McMullin wrote:

I assume that depends on how big city you are, I'm in a city of 200k and the residential is copper wire.

Copper wire does not equal "not digital". In many countries, digital telephone services on copper wire have been quite common since 1994 or thereabouts. I've certainly had ISDN for at least 15 years. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

Not really.

On one hand, there are at least fax cards for PCs plugging directly to the digital line (ISDN) which will happily fax away; the same card can be used for internet connection (56kbit up and down). Although I have never tried under Linux, that can be tricky (but it works with the appropriate card).

On the other hand, if you have an ISDN setup you can still use analog phones and faxes. You simply need the correct type of socket - actually, an adaptor. Obviously, you waste some quality, but it is still better than with an analog copper pair to the exchange.

Of course it's the digital connection at one end that permitted the higher speeds for V.90 dial up modems. Ever notice how the speed's higher in one direction? That's because the digital connection bypasses the filtering etc., that limit the bandwidth, at least in one direction. BTW, there are some faxes that will connect directly to an ISDN line and can support up to 128 Kb/s. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen wrote:

Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

Mike McMullin wrote:

[snip]

...

...

So I did. Quasar lets you build your own COA, so I built it to completely resemble to US 1040 Schedule C form - even to include the forms line numbers. So just copy the numbers to the form and I'm done. I wonder if H&R Blocks tax software is available for Linux. I know they advertise importing from QuickTax, and this would be one less app the keep Windows around for. (Oddly enough, the other app is fax software.) That I can answer for you....NO, it isn't available for Linux. FAX software isn't the "big deal" it once was for a lot of people now they have their phone service running on a digital line. FAX machines and modems ALL use analog....won't work.

Fred, it works just fine. My telephone lines are all ISDN, i.e. digital, and faxing works just fine. Inbound I use asterisk+iaxmodem, outbound I have an oldfashioned faxmodem connect to the a/b port on the NT box.

ISDN is a circuit-switched telephone network system, it's NOT the same as fiber....doesn't work the same nor use the same protocols. I've talked to engineers at AT&T and Verizon, trying to find a way around the problem, and there isn't one. So, what I do is scan anything that has to be FAXed and file attach it. Actually, it's better because the quality of the image rec'd is, of course, so much better than a FAX. Fred -- "Where's The Birth Certificate?" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 18 July 2009 11:06:00 am Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Saturday, 2009-07-18 at 13:31 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

...

Fred, it works just fine. My telephone lines are all ISDN, i.e. digital, and faxing works just fine. Inbound I use asterisk+iaxmodem, outbound I have an oldfashioned faxmodem connect to the a/b port on the NT box.

ISDN is a circuit-switched telephone network system, it's NOT the same as fiber....doesn't work the same nor use the same protocols.

It doesn't really matter if it is fiber or copper (except that you have to be "big" to have fiber to your site).

-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

Beg to differ a little with you. Fiber is available to some residential homes. The county I live in (Grant County, Washington, USA) has a fiber system available in some areas to residential areas and is expanding to cover the whole county. (One of largest counties in Washington, with population of approx. 85,000. My house has fiber with Internet speed of 100Mb. Faster is available, most business have faster also. My telephone also runs over the fiber network. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen wrote:

I have no idea what a telco might feed a fiber with - it'c clearly all digital, but what kind of phones do you use with it and do you hook them up? Around here we have only analog or ISDN phones,

Forgot about IP-phones. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Per Jessen wrote:

...

I have no idea what a telco might feed a fiber with - it'c clearly all digital, but what kind of phones do you use with it and do you hook them up? Around here we have only analog or ISDN phones,

Forgot about IP-phones.

Many people, including myself, have analog phones plugged into a VoIP terminal. I have also set up VoIP PBXs that can use either IP or analog trunks and the phones can be either analog or IP too. To the user, it makes little difference.

Pretty much, although he still has to pick the device with the appropriate abilities (POTS,ISDN,VOIP,DECT) when he is in Mediamarkt trying to decide which new cool phone he really, really wants. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Per Jessen wrote:

...

I have no idea what a telco might feed a fiber with - it'c clearly all digital, but what kind of phones do you use with it and do you hook them up? Around here we have only analog or ISDN phones,

The reason that phone companies all over the world are beginning to run fiber, is to increase their market share of not just voice, but DSL and TV. DSL is limited to a practical limit of 17,000 feet of copper, so the companies in order to get more customers over a much larger area running fiber. You undoubtedly have some there and don't know it. ;)

Yeah, we already have fibre in some areas, and more is coming, no doubt about it. Around here it's the electricity companies promoting fibre, whereas our two big telcos are more keen on VDSL (in which they've already invested heavily). /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Yeah, we already have fibre in some areas, and more is coming, no doubt about it. Around here it's the electricity companies promoting fibre,

I didn't know you could use fibre to carry electricity. ;-)

Yes, they are using the new kind with the holes. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

...

...

about it. Around here it's the electricity companies promoting fibre,

I didn't know you could use fibre to carry electricity. ;-)

Yes, they are using the new kind with the holes.

It is primarily a legal/cost issue. Power companies have the right-of-ways to install the cable (and the labor force).

I guess you missed the " ;-) ". Many utilities are getting involved in this. A few years ago, one company started up with the idea of using sewers. They'd clean and repair the sewers for the municipality and then run fibre down them. At one company I worked for, years ago, we'd often use fibres run along side power cables. That sort of thing couldn't be done safely with copper cables, but was completely safe for fibre. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

...

...

about it. Around here it's the electricity companies promoting fibre, I didn't know you could use fibre to carry electricity. ;-) Yes, they are using the new kind with the holes.

It is primarily a legal/cost issue. Power companies have the right-of-ways to install the cable (and the labor force).

So do the telcos, but I think they saw fibre as being too expensive whereas the existing copper could be reused for VDSL at very little cost. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

...

...

...

about it. Around here it's the electricity companies promoting fibre,

I didn't know you could use fibre to carry electricity. ;-)

Yes, they are using the new kind with the holes.

It is primarily a legal/cost issue. Power companies have the right-of-ways to install the cable (and the labor force).

So do the telcos, but I think they saw fibre as being too expensive whereas the existing copper could be reused for VDSL at very little cost.

I don't know where you are,

About 15min outside Zurich, Switzerland.

but around here, both phone and cable companies moved to fibre many years ago, as it's the only way to carry all the bandwidth necessary today.

Does that include the local loop?? I'm certain the rest of the telco infrastructure is fibre and has been for quite a while, but switching to fibre on the last mile would be a very significant investment, especially when the copper does very well up to about 20Mbit/s.

In new developments, fibre to curb is common and also to large office, apartment & condo buildings.

I'm sure the same is the case here. I don't know what's done in apartment buildings, coz' the telephone system is certainly either ISDN or analogue. Maybe there's a big digital-to-analog converter in the basement of those apartment buildings. Three years ago, I had Swisscom put down 4 new ISDN lines for me - nobody mentioned fibre.

Copper is simply too bandwidth and distance limiting. Many people are too far from the central office to get ADSL, let alone VDSL.

I think the ADSL coverage is pretty good here, 95% or more I suspect, but yes, VDSL is a different story. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2009-07-19 at 11:54 -0400, James Knott wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

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...

...

...

about it. Around here it's the electricity companies promoting fibre, I didn't know you could use fibre to carry electricity. ;-) Yes, they are using the new kind with the holes. It is primarily a legal/cost issue. Power companies have the right-of-ways to install the cable (and the labor force). So do the telcos, but I think they saw fibre as being too expensive whereas the existing copper could be reused for VDSL at very little cost. I don't know where you are, but around here, both phone and cable companies moved to fibre many years ago, as it's the only way to carry all the bandwidth necessary today. In new developments, fibre to curb is common and also to large office, apartment & condo buildings. Copper is simply too bandwidth and distance limiting. Many people are too far from the central office to get ADSL, let alone VDSL.

This has not been my experience. At my employer we were on a last-mile Fiber connection in the mid-90s with two facilities linked by the fiber and WAN service to other facilities as T1 provisioned over the fiber. But when that telco was purchased we were moved to copper (~ year 2000) as the "fiber was too expensive to provision" [all the fiber equipment went out the building into the dumpster]. Our WAN is still on copper T1s, but last year we paid to have a second fiber run installed [last-mile] to our facility for Internet access [from a different telco]. It terminates next to the old [dark] fiber that is still not in use. On the other hand my [residential] neighbor just had Verizon's new broadband/TV/phone package installed which is fiber-to-the-doorstep. The point here is that it varies widely based upon corporate governance/politics, region, and provider incentive. The tech, I believe, is only a small fraction of the actual cost over right-of-way, tarriffs, and political concerns. In the USA, some municipalities that have installed fiber themselves have in turn been sued by telcos for unfair competition. I've seen no evidence that telcos provision for new developments or structures on anything but a reactionary basis. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen wrote:

Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

...

...

...

about it. Around here it's the electricity companies promoting fibre, I didn't know you could use fibre to carry electricity. ;-) Yes, they are using the new kind with the holes. It is primarily a legal/cost issue. Power companies have the right-of-ways to install the cable (and the labor force).

So do the telcos, but I think they saw fibre as being too expensive whereas the existing copper could be reused for VDSL at very little cost.

Interesting discussion. It's obvious that different locales have different technologies. I saw somewhere that the US is significantly lagging the rest of the first-world countries in high-speed bandwidth availability. Is Japan number one? To add to the mix, I'll describe what's available at my home in San Ysidro, California. San Ysidro is physically separate from, but administratively part of San Diego. We're served by Cox Communications and (at this time) AT&T. Cox has been good for us, but AT&T has lived down to my expectations as being second only to Microsoft as the world's most evil companies. AT&T, and previously Pacific Bell, provide basic plain old twisted pair service (POTS) from a central office about 2,000 wire-meters away. Note that basic phone service is ALL that AT&T provides. We still can't get even basic DSL service from them. I just checked again on their web site and they suggested purchasing their satellite broadband service! Satellite service in the middle of what's supposed to be a high-tech area? I honestly don't know what AT&T is thinking. Cox, on the other hand, ran fiber down every street in their metropolitan service area in 1996. It runs right in front of my house, but they run coax to the individual houses. They have distribution amps at the curb that feed about eight houses. Cable modem service was initially provided by @Home, with Cox taking over when they went out of business. So I had broadband since 1996, no complaints there. It provides about 5-MB/sec down, about 768-KB/sec up. A some years ago Cox also started offering POTS telephone service via their infrastructure. I jumped at it in order to finally dump AT&T! They pulled a new coax cable from the street that included two power leads. The leads power a small box that terminates the coax on the side of the house. Phone twisted pair and cable connections are provided at the output to plug into the existing house wiring. So Cox now provides my phone service at about 2/3's of the cost of the Evil Empire. They provide the HD television feed too. It would be nice to have symmetric fiber right to the house, but coax will do for now. For now, I'm AT&T free! Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2009-07-18 at 20:42 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

Fiber?? Where does fiber come into the picture? Nobody's mentioned that sofar. I guess you assumed "digital" = "fiber", but that's definitely not correct.

I have no idea what a telco might feed a fiber with - it'c clearly all digital, but what kind of phones do you use with it and do you hook them up? Around here we have only analog or ISDN phones, and both can easily be used with the digital signal coming over the ISDN line.

A bunch of T1 or E1, actually PRIs, to a big PBX. Not exactly ISDN, but internal "subscribers" can see an ISDN. In theory, I've never seen it, personally. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkpiHFYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VDtQCeMgsvZERqcWsCnCgp04mD4Axm CIwAn2Q38ioiILDoc3AkevW/XvKs+U7g =DRTx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott wrote:

There are two flavours of ISDN, basic rate, which is 2 x 64 Kb/s B channels + 1 x 16 Kb/s data or primary rate, which is (in North America) 23 64 Kb/s B channels and one 64 Kb/s D channel.

In Europe, that would be a 30 x 64Kb/s channels - not sure what the D channel would be at, but I'm pretty certain an E1 is 2Mbit/s, whereas an (American) T1 is 1.544Mbit/s.

The B or bearer channels are what carries your data, phone calls etc., and the D channel is used for signaling, status etc. A business with a PBX will often get 1 or more primary ISDN connections.

Yes, bigger businesses probably - we just have 3 BRI lines, equivalent of 6 concurrent calls.

You use a basic rate ISDN for data up to 128 Kb/s, which can all be used for one connection or split for two simultaneous 64 Kb/s connections.

Typically the latter, but nobody really does that today. I did the channel-bundling 128Kbps dial-up back in the 90s, but since around '98, xDSL has been far more bang for the buck. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Per Jessen wrote: [snip]

Fiber?? Where does fiber come into the picture? Nobody's mentioned that sofar. I guess you assumed "digital" = "fiber", but that's definitely not correct.

I have no idea what a telco might feed a fiber with - it'c clearly all digital, but what kind of phones do you use with it and do you hook them up? Around here we have only analog or ISDN phones, and both can easily be used with the digital signal coming over the ISDN line.

Here in the US, we have a very large cable infrastructure, and yes...it's pure digital. The modems that Time Warner, or whatever cable company one has furnishes a "modem" that has a normal phone jack on it, along with Ethernet and coaxial for TV. I spent a great deal of time working my way through Time Warner tech. support levels trying to find a way to get a USRobotics Sportster "real" modem to work before calling Time Warner. I wish I'd checked with them before buying the modem. :( Their answer was that the modem is an analog device and it can't work on a digital service. Fred -- "Where's The Birth Certificate?" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

[snip]

...

Fiber?? Where does fiber come into the picture? Nobody's mentioned that sofar. I guess you assumed "digital" = "fiber", but that's definitely not correct.

I have no idea what a telco might feed a fiber with - it'c clearly all digital, but what kind of phones do you use with it and do you hook them up? Around here we have only analog or ISDN phones, and both can easily be used with the digital signal coming over the ISDN line.

Here in the US, we have a very large cable infrastructure, and yes...it's pure digital. The modems that Time Warner, or whatever cable company one has furnishes a "modem" that has a normal phone jack on it, along with Ethernet and coaxial for TV. I spent a great deal of time working my way through Time Warner tech. support levels trying to find a way to get a USRobotics Sportster "real" modem to work before calling Time Warner. I wish I'd checked with them before buying the modem. :( Their answer was that the modem is an analog device and it can't work on a digital service.

Fred

I suspect they weren't entirely honest with you. As I've mentioned, through my work, I've done that sort of thing many times. One thing they might be doing is voice compression, which will kill modems. On the other hand, I have set up a customer with FAX on voice over IP, connected via ADSL. In this instance, I configured the equipment to use the full 64 Kb/s for the connection between sites and the FAX worked fine. I could have configured the system to use significantly less bandwidth, in which case FAX and modems would not work, but voice would. FWIW, I've often found 1st level tech support to be not that knowledgeable. They're OK on the basics, but not much beyond. In my provider's FAQ, they say: "Rogers Home Phone is designed to support most types of telephone devices. Because of the wide variety of modems, we cannot guarantee full compatibility with every type and there may be circumstances in which failed calls will be experienced." Bottom line, it should work, but no guarantees. If you have a problem, it's with TW, not digital service. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller wrote:

James Knott wrote:

...

If you have a problem, it's with TW, not digital service.

Ok....thanks for clearing that up, James!! It's T.W. then, and I quit talking to them at 3rd level.

I've on occasion had problems with Rogers and gone beyond 3rd level. However, with my background, I can provide them with facts that show them the problem is on their network somewhere. I feel sorry for the average subscriber, who doesn't have the knowledge to get past 1st level support. In one recent example, I was frequently losing both internet & phone service simultaneously. I could see the failure with the front panel LEDs on both devices and also wrote a script that would record the internet failure times. The first guys to show up would insist it was a bad spitter or cable. Then one insisted the phone terminal was bad and replaced it, without explaining how that would affect the cable modem Another insisted it was a power issue, even though the cable modem was plugged into UPS and the telephone terminal has a built in battery. Since I have two separate cable feeds into my condo, I moved the phone terminal closer to where one feed comes in and moved the cable modem to the other feed and still had simultaneous failures. With this, I was able to prove to them that the problem was not in my condo and they then found a problem with a distribution amp. On another occasion, I had some email problems, after they switched the service to Yahoo. By capturing the POP traffic with Ethereal (now called Wireshark) I was able to demonstrate that it was the Yahoo server that was causing the problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller wrote:

ISDN is a circuit-switched telephone network system, it's NOT the same as fiber....doesn't work the same nor use the same protocols. I've talked to engineers at AT&T and Verizon, trying to find a way around the problem, and there isn't one. So, what I do is scan anything that has to be FAXed and file attach it. Actually, it's better because the quality of the image rec'd is, of course, so much better than a FAX.

One way or another, it has to connect to the existing world wide phone system. The two digital methods a via the TDM hierarchy (ISDN, T1 etc.) or voice over IP. No matter how the connection gets to the home or office, one of those two methods is used. There are many devices capable of running FAX over ISDN and you can also get a standard POTS phone jack, when using VoIP. I'd like to know what excuses those companies gave. In my home, I have VoIP, which connect over coax & fibre back to the ISP. The terminal I was provided with supports two POTS connections, which you can plug any analog device into. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller wrote:

I WISH!! What I have is coax, as I said....service is Time Warner. I have 2 phone connections on the back of the modem but a FAX/modem in the 'puter or external won't work....USRobotics REAL modems.

Fred

What happens when you try? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton wrote:

...

A rough glance over the forum would indicate that iTunes, CAD and various mobile phone interfacing/management tools. (xxx PC Suite).

...

...

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc.

Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought.

As an individual who is looking for a way to gravitate towards some aspect of open source development, I would find that type of project very interesting. But I have neither the time nor the inclination to be the "chief honcho". I have a dual background in Computer Science and in Accounting, including international accounting, and have some coding ability, as well as the ability to spec out a lot of this. And I believe that this is a true problem in search of a solid solution. So if anyone is seriously trying to do anything in that arena, I would definitely like to hear about it, and would seriously consider getting involved. If you have any specific info, please send to me directly, on my personal email, as well as on the list. I can be reached at dangoodman _AT_ myfastmail _DOT_ com (although it occasionally fills up, but not for long; please try again if that should happen to occur.) "Have gun, will travel." Seriously. I think that this is one of the real opportunities in open source (including the potential to grow into something larger than just a package to maintain.) Dan Notice: This communication, including attachments, may contain confidential or proprietary information to be conveyed solely for the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, or if you otherwise received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and promptly delete this e-mail, including attachments, without reading or saving them in any manner. The unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this e-mail, including attachments, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno WIlliams wrote:

On Wed, 2009-07-15 at 15:25 +0200, Clayton wrote:

...

...

A rough glance over the forum would indicate that iTunes, CAD and various mobile phone interfacing/management tools. (xxx PC Suite).

iTunes is a really sticky point for a lot of people... a couple I have been helping migrate to openSUSE have got hung up on this recently. Songbird comes really close in interface, but as usual... as in the same as with Banshee, Amarok etc etc... it only works with a few iPods... cannot find the iPhone and so on... plus without iTunes you cannot properly manage your iPhone.. no firmware upgrades for example (in my experience using VMware or VBox to flash your iPhone is a great way to break it - the 4 or 6 reboots the iPhone does during a firmware flash don't work correctly because the Linux host intercepts the USB device before handing off to the VM... and that breaks the flash process).

iTunes for Linux (or some fully compatible equivalent that is more than a media player that looks iTunes-ish) would be a huge improvement for the casual desktop user.

...

- FIBU/accounting software. double-entry book-keeping etc.

Getting something like CA Simply Accounting (or a compatible equivalent.. SA is a lot more than QuickBooks or other single user bank balancing software) working in Linux would be great... and working right, not hacked and tweaked by an expert. If it worked I know of at least one business that would migrate off Windows without a second thought.

Does anyone know if any of the Open Source ERP packages (http://www.openerp.com/, http://www.openbravo.com/) provide functional accounting modules? According to their docs they seem to but I've never seen any real third-party reviews.

Sadly I think these are strictly web based and would thus be rejected out-of-hand by most accounting departments/types [web apps are really bad for data-entry intense operations].

You need to check out xTuples' PostBooks: http://www.xtuple.com/comparison I believe it uses Qt - not the web browser Duaine -- Duaine Hechler Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ Tuning, Servicing & Rebuilding Reed Organ Society Member Florissant, MO 63034 (314) 838-5587 dahechler@att.net www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com -- Home & Business user of Linux - 10 years -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org