[opensuse] Re: server kernel
Le 14/07/2010 10:11, Kaushal Shriyan a écrit :
Have installed the default kernel using yast and got it configured. Not sure why it install the desktop kernel.
a kernel is a kernel, what difference do you see between a "desktop" and "server" kernel? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-support-the-Linux-Documentation-Project/3720... http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-fan-page-of-Claire-Dodin/106485119372062?v... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:48 PM, jdd-gmane <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 14/07/2010 10:11, Kaushal Shriyan a écrit :
Have installed the default kernel using yast and got it configured. Not sure why it install the desktop kernel.
a kernel is a kernel, what difference do you see between a "desktop" and "server" kernel?
jdd
Hi jdd Basically the Global IO Scheduler is different on a server kernel compared to desktop kernel. deadline scheduler on server kernel cfq scheduler on desktop kernel Thanks, Kaushal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
jdd-gmane wrote:
Le 14/07/2010 10:11, Kaushal Shriyan a écrit :
Have installed the default kernel using yast and got it configured. Not sure why it install the desktop kernel.
a kernel is a kernel, what difference do you see between a "desktop" and "server" kernel?
The typical difference is that a desktop is geared towards user response rather than throughput. It often means pre-emptive scheduling. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (27.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 7/14/2010 4:18 AM, jdd-gmane wrote:
Le 14/07/2010 10:11, Kaushal Shriyan a écrit :
Have installed the default kernel using yast and got it configured. Not sure why it install the desktop kernel.
a kernel is a kernel, what difference do you see between a "desktop" and "server" kernel?
jdd
Haha really? When was the last time you tried to boot kernel-xen or kernel-rt? How'd that work out for ya? I thought a kernel was a kernel was a kernel? There are many differences between kernel-default and kernel-desktop. The desktop kernel favors latency over throughput which is the exact opposite of what you need in a server. And has some major features completely removed which are not available as loadable modules. Try to use linux containers or make any other use of the cgroups subsystem on a the desktop kernel. No can do. cgroups is removed at compile-time and not addable at run-time by a module and so you simply can't use LXC. Probably don't care on a desktop but it's the end of the world on my virtual private server hosts. Then again you may care someday on a desktop when you're reading about how to do some cool thing that requires cgroups. I don't know why they just assumed desktops never need virtualization technology. A lot of desktop users do an awful lot of various forms of virtualization, just older stuff that doesn't happen to use the nice new efficient linux containers feature in new kernels. I contest the claims about performance overhead too since ubuntus desktop kernel has cgroups enabled and outperforms suses desktop kernel. *shrug* The names of the kernels seem backwards, and they are, but there is at least an explanation how that happened. Once upon a time there was only one "normal" kernel for opensuse. There were other special purpose kernels but they were for xen and realtime etc, special cases. That one, default, kernel was called kernel-default , quite sensibly, and it was configured with basically all possible options enabled and suitable for servers, also quite sensibly. Then recently they decided to add a new kernel that was tailored better for desktop users by using the configuration described above wrt scheduling options and unecessary features. They decided to keep calling the old kernel kernel-default, and call the new kernel kernel-desktop. There is some sense to that, because it means if you have a script or an autoinst.xml file or written directions that include "kernel-default" those will all keep working on newer versions of opensuse. If your autoinst says to install kernel-default, you will get the same type of kernel as you used to get. The only thing that makes this all confusing and the thing which I don't agree with is that they then decided to make kernel-desktop the one which gets installed by default, in all cases, regardless what type of system role you choose in the installer, even if you say "minimal text-only server" which doesn't even install X let alone any window manager or desktop environment like gnome or kde. So that is why kernel-default is not default, and you get kernel-desktop even when installing a "server" not a desktop. opensuse, despite their claims, are simply favoring desktop users over server users once again. As a server installer, I must now always add more steps to my install procedure to install kernel-default and remove kernel-desktop since favoring latency over throughput would be death for me and I need LXC which needs cgroups. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed 14 Jul 2010 at 18:34:17 (-0300 UTC) Brian K. White wrote:
LXC which needs cgroups Very interesting answer.
Apologies my ignorance: let's approximate LXC as Solaris zones? Cheers, -- Marco Calistri <amdturion> Writing non-free software is not an ethically legitimate activity, so if people who do this run into trouble, that's good! All businesses based on non-free software ought to fail, and the sooner the better. -- Richard Stallman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 14/07/10 23:34, Brian K. White wrote:
On 7/14/2010 4:18 AM, jdd-gmane wrote:
Le 14/07/2010 10:11, Kaushal Shriyan a écrit : [...] The only thing that makes this all confusing and the thing which I don't agree with is that they then decided to make kernel-desktop the one which gets installed by default, in all cases, regardless what type of system role you choose in the installer, even if you say "minimal text-only server" which doesn't even install X let alone any window manager or desktop environment like gnome or kde.
So that is why kernel-default is not default, and you get kernel-desktop even when installing a "server" not a desktop.
opensuse, despite their claims, are simply favoring desktop users over server users once again. As a server installer, I must now always add more steps to my install procedure to install kernel-default and remove kernel-desktop since favoring latency over throughput would be death for me and I need LXC which needs cgroups.
On my laptop/notebook was the kernel default installed with 11.2 and do not recall to have done something special while the new installing was on the run (I installed only the pae kernel later). Greetings pistazienfresser -- - openSUSE 11.2 with GNOME 2.28.2 (or KDE 4.3.5) and Kernel Linux 2.6.31.12-0.2-default (or pae, Ubuntu 10.4 LTS 'lucid' 2.6.33-22-genetic, MS Win XP) - Samsung X20 (SX20S) with Pentium M 740 (1730 MHz), Intel graphic 915GM, 1400x1050 - openSUSE profile: https://users.opensuse.org/show/pistazienfresser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Brian K. White (brian@aljex.com) [20100714 23:34]:
Once upon a time there was only one "normal" kernel for opensuse.
Nope :) Once upon a time there were umpteen kernels, one for every type of disk subsystem and controller whoose support was compiled into the kernel. That changed when SuSE started to use an initrd to dynamically load the needed drivers. Ironically kernel-desktop revises that a bit because a selected part of the drivers are compiled into the kernel to speed up booting.
opensuse, despite their claims, are simply favoring desktop users over server users once again.
No, it's simply assumed that mosty of the server users will use SLE not openSUSE.
As a server installer, I must now always add more steps to my install procedure to install kernel-default and remove kernel-desktop since favoring latency over throughput would be death for me and I need LXC which needs cgroups.
There is openFATE and I'd strongly advise you to use it to enter such feature requests. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Philipp Thomas <pth@suse.de> wrote:
* Brian K. White (brian@aljex.com) [20100714 23:34]:
Once upon a time there was only one "normal" kernel for opensuse.
Nope :) Once upon a time there were umpteen kernels, one for every type of disk subsystem and controller whoose support was compiled into the kernel. That changed when SuSE started to use an initrd to dynamically load the needed drivers. Ironically kernel-desktop revises that a bit because a selected part of the drivers are compiled into the kernel to speed up booting.
opensuse, despite their claims, are simply favoring desktop users over server users once again.
No, it's simply assumed that mosty of the server users will use SLE not openSUSE.
As a server installer, I must now always add more steps to my install procedure to install kernel-default and remove kernel-desktop since favoring latency over throughput would be death for me and I need LXC which needs cgroups.
There is openFATE and I'd strongly advise you to use it to enter such feature requests.
Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, I installed kernel-default on opensuse 11.2, I still find the IO Scheduler to be cfq and not deadline, Also i tried passing elevator=deadline to the kernel line, it worked as expected but when i pass it on to the kernel-desktop it also shows the deadline scheduler too , Am i doing it correct ? Please guide/suggest. Thanks, Kaushal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hello, On Tue, 20 Jul 2010, Kaushal Shriyan wrote:
I installed kernel-default on opensuse 11.2, I still find the IO Scheduler to be cfq and not deadline,
Also i tried passing elevator=deadline to the kernel line, it worked as expected but when i pass it on to the kernel-desktop it also shows the deadline scheduler too ,
Am i doing it correct ?
Both kernels _contain_ the schedulers, just which one is used by default differs. If you want to permanently change the scheduler, add the 'elevator=...' to /etc/sysconfig/bootloader, variable DEFAULT_APPEND (for future kernel-updates) and add it to current "kernel" entries in /boot/grub/menu.lst. HTH, -dnh -- 2 is a really odd prime... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Philipp Thomas <pth@suse.de> wrote:
Nope :) Once upon a time there were umpteen kernels, one for every type of disk subsystem and controller whoose support was compiled into the kernel. That changed when SuSE started to use an initrd to dynamically load the needed drivers. Ironically kernel-desktop revises that a bit because a selected part of the drivers are compiled into the kernel to speed up booting.
Back in 9.x IIRC, we had BigSMP for SMP systems(Still have my old Precision 610 with dual Xeons....). PAE was originally intended for 32bit x86 systems with more than 4GB RAM. PAE pages memory in and out of the lower 4GB space, kind of like EMS used to(good old DOS......). Now that the 64bit cpus have the XD/NX bit at page table 63, you need PAE enabled to take advanatge of it. I've found with up to 11.2, that default, which doesn't(or at least didn't) have PAE enabled works better on older 32bit chips that don't have PAE. Unfortunatelty, the installer looks for PAE and not NX/XD when installing the kernel, so any chip with PAE(PPro onward, Athlon onward) gets the desktop kernel. It SHOULDn't seem to matter, but I've found default is more stable on my P3 systems....... Just my experience -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Just checked my Thinkpad X21(P3/700). It has default installed(just did the install 2 days ago and didn't select the kernel). Does anyone know if default enables PAE now? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 07/14/2010 04:34 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
Haha really? When was the last time you tried to boot kernel-xen or kernel-rt? How'd that work out for ya? I thought a kernel was a kernel was a kernel?
There are many differences between kernel-default and kernel-desktop.
Damn BKW, You answered my question completely without even replying to my thread -- that's talent :p see, earlier: [opensuse] What's the difference between a 'kernel-default' and a 'kernel-desktop' -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Brian K. White -
David C. Rankin -
David Haller -
jdd-gmane -
Kaushal Shriyan -
Larry Stotler -
Marco Calistri -
Per Jessen -
Philipp Thomas -
pistazienfresser