[opensuse] After testing 11.2.........

newer
[opensuse] opensuse 11.2 & dell...

older
[opensuse] Using ext4 filesystem...

Fred A. Miller

12 Nov 2009 12 Nov '09

04:55

11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10. This I consider an important feat. Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;) I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by. Fred -- Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, so I have more reliable. I use Linux! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Show replies by date

Basil Chupin

11 Nov 11 Nov

08:11

On 12/11/09 15:55, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10. This I consider an important feat. Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;)

I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by.

Fred

I cannot disagree with this. But what I fear most right now is that the wrong decisions will be made to keep pushing the "bleeding edge" rather than consolidating and getting the 'almost-show-stopper' bugs resolved. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

19:04

On 11/11/2009 12:11 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 12/11/09 15:55, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10. This I consider an important feat. Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;)

I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by.

Fred

I cannot disagree with this.

But what I fear most right now is that the wrong decisions will be made to keep pushing the "bleeding edge" rather than consolidating and getting the 'almost-show-stopper' bugs resolved.

BC

Additionally, until there is some resolution of the Long Term Support issue, the short life span of most releases means none but the hobbyist will be moving from Ubuntu, certainly not any of the OEM's releasing Linux machines. Ubuntu LucidLynx due in April will be the next LTS version. OpenSuse's LTS is still a pipe dream. http://lwn.net/Articles/350229/ Its just pretty hard justify OpenSuse on Aunt Nellie's machine when you know you will have to do it all over in 18 months. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams

19:21

On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 11:04 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

...

On 11/11/2009 12:11 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
On 12/11/09 15:55, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10. This I consider an important feat. Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;) I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by. I cannot disagree with this. But what I fear most right now is that the wrong decisions will be made to keep pushing the "bleeding edge" rather than consolidating and getting the 'almost-show-stopper' bugs resolved. Additionally, until there is some resolution of the Long Term Support issue, the short life span of most releases means none but the hobbyist will be moving from Ubuntu, certainly not any of the OEM's releasing Linux machines. Ubuntu LucidLynx due in April will be the next LTS version.

? OpenSUSE 11.1 will not stop receiving updates when 11.2 comes out The current end-of-life for 11.1 is expected to be December 2010. It was released end-of-2009, that is ~2 years. A desktop distro of 2+ years old is pretty *(@&( stale. http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Linux_Lifetime

...

OpenSuse's LTS is still a pipe dream. http://lwn.net/Articles/350229/

This is an article that seem primarily related to an "OpenSLES" like RHEL's CentOS. But nobody, or just about nobody, runs CentOS on their desktop [Ok, I know people who do, but they certainly don't qualify as typical-end-users].

...

Its just pretty hard justify OpenSuse on Aunt Nellie's machine when you know you will have to do it all over in 18 months.

"do it all over"? My experiences with 10.3, 11.0, 11.1 haven't involved much doing-it-over. Now with zypper dup I expect the 'upgrade' to pretty much be a big-batch-of-updates. -- openSUSE http://www.opensuse.org/en/ Linux for human beings who need to get things done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Michael S. Dunsavage

19:51

...

? OpenSUSE 11.1 will not stop receiving updates when 11.2 comes out The current end-of-life for 11.1 is expected to be December 2010. It was released end-of-2009, that is ~2 years. A desktop distro of 2+ years old is pretty *(@&( stale.

Isn't end of '09 to end of '10 only a year? That would be Decemberish to Decemberish -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

ne...

19:58

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 19:51, Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:

...

...
? OpenSUSE 11.1 will not stop receiving updates when 11.2 comes out The current end-of-life for 11.1 is expected to be December 2010. It was released end-of-2009, that is ~2 years. A desktop distro of 2+ years old is pretty *(@&( stale.

Isn't end of '09 to end of '10 only a year? That would be Decemberish to Decemberish

I think we both know that Adam meant 2008, as in released en d-of-2008. ((-: ne... -- Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org) Now accepting personal mail for GMail invites. Pablo Picasso - "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/pablo_picasso.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hans Witvliet

22:48

On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 11:04 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

...

On 11/11/2009 12:11 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
On 12/11/09 15:55, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10. This I consider an important feat. Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;)

I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by.

Fred

I cannot disagree with this.

But what I fear most right now is that the wrong decisions will be made to keep pushing the "bleeding edge" rather than consolidating and getting the 'almost-show-stopper' bugs resolved.

BC

Additionally, until there is some resolution of the Long Term Support issue, the short life span of most releases means none but the hobbyist will be moving from Ubuntu, certainly not any of the OEM's releasing Linux machines. Ubuntu LucidLynx due in April will be the next LTS version.

OpenSuse's LTS is still a pipe dream. http://lwn.net/Articles/350229/

Its just pretty hard justify OpenSuse on Aunt Nellie's machine when you know you will have to do it all over in 18 months.

just some remarks.... ..do it all over in 18 months... uh, what wrong with a "zypper dup" once in a while? Or are you visiting Aunt Nellie only once every five years? '-) Looks like the people commenting on lwn's artice are missing the main point: You see comments like "Novell should this or that..." If the community really likes a openSuSE-LTS thing, the community should provide it. I just can not imagine what Novell would be gaining by it, It will only cost them dearly, both in man-hours but also in cpu-cycles and storage. Because of it, they removed all 10.3-repo's from the OBS. Anybody around having their own OBS who can completely rebuild 10.3? Probably not... If one can find enough resources do rebuild it, one needs a small army of competent and trust-worthy people who are willing to spent huge amount of time debugging, recoding, testing testing and retesting. And by the way, one needs probably also their own bugtracking system, and probably more of those little things.. Would love to see it (good for the community) but i think it's highly unlikely it will ever become reality. hw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

23:24

On 11/11/2009 2:48 PM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

uh, what wrong with a "zypper dup" once in a while? Or are you visiting Aunt Nellie only once every five years? '-)

You Nailed it. Gave her opensuse so I wouldn't have to run over there and de-virus her machine every week. As for zypper dup, point Aunt Nellie here: http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Usage and watch her never speak to you again. Wait... Hmmmmmm... My Kubuntu popped up a window asking If I wanted to upgrade to 9.10. Since I use it as a test platform, I had nothing to lose, and clicked yes. Worked perfectly. (And I mean PERFECTLY!). Not once in all the years of using any flavor of suse since 7.3 has that ever worked as sweet as it did in Kubuntu. And why does everyone sing the praises of Yast and in the same breath talk about a command line package manager?

...

If the community really likes a openSuSE-LTS thing, the community should provide it. I just can not imagine what Novell would be gaining by it,

But this is OPENSUSE, right? Not SLED/SLES. We are talking about this on the OpenSuse mailing list? http://en.opensuse.org/Project_Overview says the first GOAL is: Make openSUSE the EASIEST Linux distribution for ANYONE to obtain and the most WIDELY USED open source platform. So right there, FAIL! The truth of the matter is we are all Lab Rats for Novell, and there is very little about openSuse that is OPEN at all. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams

23:40

On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 15:24 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

...

On 11/11/2009 2:48 PM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...
uh, what wrong with a "zypper dup" once in a while? Or are you visiting Aunt Nellie only once every five years? '-) You Nailed it. Gave her opensuse so I wouldn't have to run over there and de-virus her machine every week. As for zypper dup, point Aunt Nellie here: http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Usage and watch her never speak to you again. Wait... Hmmmmmm...

Why would I do that? Would Aunt Nellie upgrade herself from XP/Vista to Windows 7? No. She'll either continue to use 11.1 [which is supported for another year] or someone will upgrade her box to 11.2.

...

My Kubuntu popped up a window asking If I wanted to upgrade to 9.10. Since I use it as a test platform, I had nothing to lose, and clicked yes. Worked perfectly. (And I mean PERFECTLY!). Not once in all the years of using any flavor of suse since 7.3 has that ever worked as sweet as it did in Kubuntu.

Most of the time time it has worked pretty flawlessly for me.

...

And why does everyone sing the praises of Yast and in the same breath talk about a command line package manager?

Only because I shut everything else down when I do an upgrade.

...

...
If the community really likes a openSuSE-LTS thing, the community should provide it. I just can not imagine what Novell would be gaining by it, But this is OPENSUSE, right? Not SLED/SLES. We are talking about this on the OpenSuse mailing list?

That article is comparing to CentOS/RHEL. So xxx/SLES is the equivalent on this side of the fence.

...

http://en.opensuse.org/Project_Overview says the first GOAL is: Make openSUSE the EASIEST Linux distribution for ANYONE to obtain and the most WIDELY USED open source platform.

Success! Has worked great for me and several of my co-workers.

...

The truth of the matter is we are all Lab Rats for Novell, and there is very little about openSuse that is OPEN at all.

Blah Blah Woof Woof. There is next to nothing CLOSED about it at all. Go troll somewhere else. -- openSUSE http://www.opensuse.org/en/ Linux for human beings who need to get things done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

23:50

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 6:24 PM, John Andersen wrote:

...

On 11/11/2009 2:48 PM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...
uh, what wrong with a "zypper dup" once in a while? Or are you visiting Aunt Nellie only once every five years? '-)

You Nailed it. Gave her opensuse so I wouldn't have to run over there and de-virus her machine every week.

As for zypper dup, point Aunt Nellie here: http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Usage and watch her never speak to you again. Wait... Hmmmmmm...

My Kubuntu popped up a window asking If I wanted to upgrade to 9.10. Since I use it as a test platform, I had nothing to lose, and clicked yes.

Worked perfectly. (And I mean PERFECTLY!). Not once in all the years of using any flavor of suse since 7.3 has that ever worked as sweet as it did in Kubuntu.

And why does everyone sing the praises of Yast and in the same breath talk about a command line package manager?

Because "Yast wagon" is very new, and few people know about it. http://en.opensuse.org/Wagon But it exists, it works, and it is officially supported as an upgrade method for 11.2. I can see it becoming the standard upgrade tool in 8-months if we bugzilla and feature request it enough. ie. look at the above page. Way too many steps using too many tools. Wagon should encapsulate the whole process in my mind. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

12 Nov 12 Nov

03:12

On 11/11/2009 3:50 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 6:24 PM, John Andersen wrote:

...
On 11/11/2009 2:48 PM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...
uh, what wrong with a "zypper dup" once in a while? Or are you visiting Aunt Nellie only once every five years? '-)

You Nailed it. Gave her opensuse so I wouldn't have to run over there and de-virus her machine every week.

As for zypper dup, point Aunt Nellie here: http://en.opensuse.org/Zypper/Usage and watch her never speak to you again. �Wait... �Hmmmmmm...

My Kubuntu popped up a window asking If I wanted to upgrade to 9.10. Since I use it as a test platform, I had nothing to lose, and clicked yes.

Worked perfectly. �(And I mean PERFECTLY!). �Not once in all the years of using any flavor of suse since 7.3 has that ever worked as sweet as it did in Kubuntu.

And why does everyone sing the praises of Yast and in the same breath talk about a command line package manager?

Because "Yast wagon" is very new, and few people know about it. http://en.opensuse.org/Wagon

But it exists, it works, and it is officially supported as an upgrade method for 11.2. I can see it becoming the standard upgrade tool in 8-months if we bugzilla and feature request it enough.

ie. look at the above page. Way too many steps using too many tools. Wagon should encapsulate the whole process in my mind.

Greg

You are correct, I knew nothing about Wagon. Thanks for that link. Its getting much closer to the ubuntu upgrade experience (or at least the Kubuntu upgrade, because I haven upgraded my Ubuntu Gnome Virtual Machine yet. Yes, I've done it the manual way. And following all these steps on the page you provided is a little better but still, as you point out, too many steps to screw up. A Fully functional Wagon concept is what OpenSuse should be shooting for IMHO. Since Novell needs OpenSuse as a proving ground, why not make it EASE to upgrade? They will need that capability on SLED too. Test it on us Lab Rats. Still, I'm back level enough that will probably use the nuke and new install for 11.2. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

08:19

...

...
And why does everyone sing the praises of Yast and in the same breath talk about a command line package manager?

Because "Yast wagon" is very new, and few people know about it. http://en.opensuse.org/Wagon

But it exists, it works, and it is officially supported as an upgrade method for 11.2. I can see it becoming the standard upgrade tool in 8-months if we bugzilla and feature request it enough.

If it is to become the upgrade method, then it really really needs a LOT of work. Compare the competition... look at the Ubuntu upgrade process... from release to release it simple even when you've enabled community repos. You click one button, it goes off and does some magic and you're done. With Wagon, there is still a rather scary manual step (for new/inexperienced users): (quoting) 3. ensure you have the the correct repositories enabled 1. Click repository management 2. disable all repositories not 11.2 compatible 3. add these repo's by url: 1. "openSUSE 11.2 Oss" - http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/oss/ 2. "openSUSE 11.2 Non-OSS" - http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/11.2/repo/non-oss 3. "openSUSE 11.2 Updates" - http://download.opensuse.org/update/11.2/ (end qoute) This is something that does not have to be done (in my experience) with Ubuntu upgrades. But... this is probably a topic for factory not here.... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

01:03

* John Andersen [11-11-09 18:27]:

...

The truth of the matter is we are all Lab Rats for Novell, and there is very little about openSuse that is OPEN at all.

'tis only your machochistic tendencies keeping you here? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Boyd Lynn Gerber

07:05

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 11:04 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

...
Additionally, until there is some resolution of the Long Term Support issue, the short life span of most releases means none but the hobbyist will be moving from Ubuntu, certainly not any of the OEM's releasing Linux machines. Ubuntu LucidLynx due in April will be the next LTS version.

OpenSuse's LTS is still a pipe dream. http://lwn.net/Articles/350229/

I do not think it is a pipe dreame given we are working on it and we have 18 months before it goes into an un-supported state. There is more of an ergentcy if we dow and openSLES.

...

...
Its just pretty hard justify OpenSuse on Aunt Nellie's machine when you know you will have to do it all over in 18 months.

...

just some remarks.... ..do it all over in 18 months... uh, what wrong with a "zypper dup" once in a while? Or are you visiting Aunt Nellie only once every five years? '-) 8^) Looks like the people commenting on lwn's artice are missing the main point: You see comments like "Novell should this or that..."

If the community really likes a openSuSE-LTS thing, the community should provide it. I just can not imagine what Novell would be gaining by it, It will only cost them dearly, both in man-hours but also in cpu-cycles and storage. Because of it, they removed all 10.3-repo's from the OBS.

Novell has said we may use OBS and possibly create an area for openSUSE LTS. They had assisted in having an Education project with iso and all. The thing in this initiative, has really come down to 2 options. An openSLES, or an limited server oriented openSUSE. The choices are SLES 11 for openSLES and openSUSE 11.2 for open SUSE xxx LTS.

...

Anybody around having their own OBS who can completely rebuild 10.3? Probably not... If one can find enough resources do rebuild it, one needs a small army of competent and trust-worthy people who are willing to spent huge amount of time debugging, recoding, testing testing and retesting.

And by the way, one needs probably also their own bugtracking system, and probably more of those little things..

Would love to see it (good for the community) but i think it's highly unlikely it will ever become reality.

There are plenty of private OBS's ofr Local BS's. The reall isssue is trust in who is doing what for what. Taking with the SLES management has expressed concerns that with the current economic condidtion we would greatly reduce the number of SLES purchases. The key people in the SLES group who I thought would welcome the project with open arms were not very enthusiastic about it. But given most of us wanting to do this come from the openSUSE community we have had talks with many openSUSE and other Managment. One thing that has come out of it is the announcement With the announcement http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2009-10/msg00013.html We now have the oportunity to now really be able to provide and openSUSE LTS with out a lot of obstucales. In the various talks we have had it appears the given the current economic climit, we could posssibly do more harm than good with an openSLES. Most of the members that have stepped up to be willing to do the security updates and back ports have come from the openSUSE community. With the community taking over support and many other functions with the aid of openSUSE, we gain critical training and open dialogs with the current support team to gain knowledge to provide with the choosen community members a team that during the openSUSE 11.2 life time can/ or are able to build the trust needed for an openSUSE LTS. Personally I have change from a strong openSLES to looking at embracing openSUSE in a reduced set that would be about the same work, but with out the need for an attorney and many of the issues/problems I saw with openSLES There have been talks with the SLES managment and the ones that I thought would be behind such an effort right now seem to view it as more of a problem; Natuarlly there are those that are the free-loaders, who do not step up to the plate and really take part in any way they are able, whether it be coding, financial support, manuals... Also I was in hopes of gaining support from Novell in the form of a free SLES with the ability to get the SLES updates with little to now probem. I had hoped for this so we do not in any way endanger current SLES licenses. We need to take this all in mind with our decisison as to which initiative we choose. This where we are now. We are waiting for us to do the things we normally do with a new release. So this will take up a few weeks before we really see more movement on this initiative. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

19:00

On 11/11/2009 11:05 PM, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

...

Novell has said we may use OBS and possibly create an area for openSUSE LTS. They had assisted in having an Education project with iso and all.

The thing in this initiative, has really come down to 2 options. An openSLES, or an limited server oriented openSUSE. The choices are SLES 11 for openSLES and openSUSE 11.2 for open SUSE xxx LTS.

...

There are plenty of private OBS's ofr Local BS's. The reall isssue is trust in who is doing what for what. Taking with the SLES management has expressed concerns that with the current economic condidtion we would greatly reduce the number of SLES purchases. The key people in the SLES group who I thought would welcome the project with open arms were not very enthusiastic about it.

Ok, so lets work with that. I think we all understand that Novell has to make money. Maybe LTS is counterproductive, and an economic dead end. The upside of LTS is you get stability and no drama. The Downside of LTS is you are saddled with older technology. In that case then a SMOOTH automatic upgrade, at least as cool and complete as Ubuntu** would serve both opensuse and SLED/SLES. Such a Super-Wagon could be used in opensuse land to make upgrades painless (or nearly so), and it could be part of SLED and SLES to make those products as easy to upgrade (for a price). In-place upgrades should not be as traumatic as they always tend to be. A smart tool could even find settings in user's personal configuration files that will cause problems (kmail settings Kong profiles that need updates for the new release). There seems little rational reason that people should still need to nuke their machines and start all over again in this day and age. Can't we get past that? I'd gladly use a Upgrade tool like Wagon if it worked as well (or BETTER) than Ubuntu. Footnotes: ** Ubuntu's approach is to just remove 3rd party repositories it finds to be obsolete or incompatible. It does not give much of an opportunity to see if you can locate newer third party repositories by your self and add them to the list. So you end up doing a two pass upgrade, First anything Ubuntu supports, then another pass to add in the other repositories. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

15:43

On 11/11/2009 03:11 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 12/11/09 15:55, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10. This I consider an important feat. Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;)

I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by.

Fred

I cannot disagree with this.

But what I fear most right now is that the wrong decisions will be made to keep pushing the "bleeding edge" rather than consolidating and getting the 'almost-show-stopper' bugs resolved.

I think a lot of us share that thought. I thought with the zypper dup command this morning, I'd be presented with a new repository...."nVidia." NADA!! I should have known it wouldn't happen. Either the update isn't happening as it should, or the devs. don't have it available. Neither one is good, for sure!! Fred -- A REVOLUTIONARY IDEA! 'Time to put Nana Pelosi in a home!' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

16:00

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

On 11/11/2009 03:11 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
On 12/11/09 15:55, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10. This I consider an important feat. Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;)

I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by.

Fred

I cannot disagree with this.

But what I fear most right now is that the wrong decisions will be made to keep pushing the "bleeding edge" rather than consolidating and getting the 'almost-show-stopper' bugs resolved.

I think a lot of us share that thought. I thought with the zypper dup command this morning, I'd be presented with a new repository...."nVidia." NADA!! I should have known it wouldn't happen. Either the update isn't happening as it should, or the devs. don't have it available. Neither one is good, for sure!!

Fred

I'm not at all happy with the zypper dup repository handling. It makes zero attempt to manage your repos. If you want a new repo, you have to do it yourself. See http://en.opensuse.org/Upgrade/11.2#Command_line In my mind this is the biggest shortcoming in the zypper dup / wagon process. fyi: I've opened bug reports, commented on the Fate entry, and posted about this on the factory list. I think for 11.2 it was considered too big of a step, but I hope 11.3 includes an effort to simplify repo management during a upgrade. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rasmus Plewe

11 Nov 11 Nov

10:25

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:55:47PM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10.

Which benchmarks did you use? Rasmus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Fred A. Miller

12 Nov 12 Nov

15:47

On 11/11/2009 05:25 AM, Rasmus Plewe wrote:

...

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:55:47PM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...
11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10.

Which benchmarks did you use?

A watch and perception. I didn't nor don't need anything else....could immediately tell it's quicker. Fred -- A REVOLUTIONARY IDEA! 'Time to put Nana Pelosi in a home!' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Adam Tauno Williams

11 Nov 11 Nov

11:25

On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 23:55 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

11.2 on 2 test boxen, one a Dell laptop with Intel duel-core Centrino and 2G RAM and an HP desktop with a dual-core Opteron and 4G of RAM, are FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10.

How did you measure that?

...

Yast has even more ability than in 11.1. Anyone who's used Yast is hard pressed to want to leave it. ;)

Agree; YaST is a big part of why I can't really consider switching distros. Our testing of openSUSE 11.2 have been very positive as well.

...

I have an idea that 11.2 will be the distro. all others are measured by.

Ubuntu fanboys will never be convinced. :) -- openSUSE http://www.opensuse.org/en/ Linux for human beings who need to get things done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton

14:48

...

...
FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10.

How did you measure that?

Wetware v1.0 :-) It just feels faster on my netbook. Does that count for anything?

...

Agree; YaST is a big part of why I can't really consider switching distros.

Same here... YaST is the nicest config tool available. I use/test multiple Linux and Unix installs, and openSUSE is the one I end up coming back to. Some distros (historically) installed much easier than openSUSE (Ubuntu for example), or post-install worked better for the basics for things like multimedia (LinuxMint for example) but this time around, it's looking - at least on initial testing - like 11.2 has got all the current distros beat. It still has quirks like all releases :-) but overall it's running great on the machines I've installed it on so far. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rasmus Plewe

20:31

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 03:48:06PM +0100, Clayton wrote:

...

...
...
FASTER running with openSUSE 11.2 and KDE than Ubuntu 9.10.

How did you measure that?

Wetware v1.0 :-) It just feels faster on my netbook. Does that count for anything?

Yes: anecdotal evidence. ;-) For the records: To me, 11.2 feels slower than 11.1. Which, of course, has nothing at all to do with me changing from KDE3 to KDE4 (including Wobbly Windows) at the same time... Rasmus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

5285

Age (days ago)

5285

Last active (days ago)

List overview

Download

21 comments

12 participants

participants (12)

Adam Tauno Williams
Basil Chupin
Boyd Lynn Gerber
Clayton
Fred A. Miller
Greg Freemyer
Hans Witvliet
John Andersen
Michael S. Dunsavage
ne...
Patrick Shanahan
Rasmus Plewe