On 06-Feb-99 Jerry Lynn Kreps wrote:

(Ted Harding) wrote:

...

And, above all, don't forget good documentation. SuSE has not done so well at this as it not only should, but could have done. Internationalisation applies to this area too.

I disagree. SuSE's docs are as good as the best and better than any others I've seen. What we are talking about here is the book that comes with the commerical release. It is as good as the only other commerical release book I've seen: Red Hat's. It is as good as if not better than the book, "Learn Linux in 24 hours", by Bill Ball. The rest of the documentation in Linux is centered around the LDP HOWTO's, MAN and INFO pages and the book publishers. No one gets paid for documenting the day-to-day changes in the kernel and apps and in the volunteer based GPL movement that is a trade off that will always exist. Publishers in each country handle their own needs.

This is a moot point. SuSE's docs may be better than RH's, but IMO they could stand a lot of improvement (I only know the English version). For instance: I run 5.1, though I have a 5.2 box on the shelf. I wanted to get faxing going, so out came the 5.1 book. Not much help; very incomplete. I took the 5.2 book, and found it much better, though still incomplete and I had to fill in a lot of details by guesswork and manpage -- successfully as it happened. IMO the 5.1 description should have been at least as good as the 5.2 one in the first place, and even the 5.2 should have been better. When I first installed 5.1, I read through the SuSE book. It looked good, but again it was not laid out right for a "start here and work through" installation guide (in fact, the last Red Hat I installed, 4.1, had a book that was very good from this point of view). But I've done a good few Linux installations, so I just put the CD and the boot floppy in, and took things as they came. It worked (though not first time), and well, but what I found myself doing was not like the sequence the book described. FAQs, Howtos and man pages are OK once you're well into running the system and familiar with the general territory. But the way the information is dispersed over several places which are not necessarily coordinated is not at all helpful for new users, and can cause problems even for experienced and knowledgeable users. I'm not suggesting a complete set of printed documentation for the system. That would be like the 3-shelves-full of manuals that come with commercial UNIX distributions, the cost of maintaining which in proper order must be a perceptible fraction of what you pay for the software. But a thorough, accurate and comprehensible "beginners manual" which covers basic installation and setup in every detail, and goes on to "what every Linux(/UNIX) user/sysadmin needs to know for day-to-day work", would be a blessing for beginners. Of course, so long as Linux distributions are not tied to an LSB-like standard such a book may be difficult to keep up-to-date, which is yet another argument for laying down a solid base. Then you could usefully spend some time on getting the "basic book" right once and for all. The reason why generic Linux books are not universally useful is that unless they cover all the details which are different for every major distribution (and I have never seen one that even tries) they will be (possibly) accurate for one distribution (usually Red Hat), and will inevitably -- at some point -- leave the beginner with a different distribution lacking needed guidance somewhere along the line. Of course the unstructured world of GPL volunteers cannot be _expected_ to provide something like this in the first place, let alone keep it up to date, even though many of them in fact try very hard and often succeed very well. On the other hand, an organisation which creates and sells a Linux distribution is different. They can, in principle, afford to pay to get it done properly. This is an important point for the acceptability of Linux in the "paying world". These people could often pay for "real UNIX" if they wanted to. In fact many of them perceive the true benefits of Open Source software (ultimately: reliability, quality, functionality, rapid development and problem-fixing, source code availability and the possibility of controlling your own computing environment, the ever-helpful Internet community, etc). The fact that the software itself is free of cost at source is a bonus (and is a major factor in the worldwide uptake of Linux). Distribution on a relatively cheap CD set is "value added" and people are happy to pay for this (especially if the alternative is a solid week on-line by modem). A good reference manual is also value added, and it need only add say 50% to the cost of the CD set. It would save its cost many times over in the time-equivalent lost in getting to know the system in traditional ways (Howtos, FAQs, queries to mailing lists etc); and these people can also appreciate that. Sorry to argue at such length. I think Linux is "at the cusp" at this moment: if the moment is seized well, and timely, Linux will go from strength to strength. If the attitude remains (which I have often seen in replies to queries) "you're not paying for the software, you can't expect the sort of support you'd get if you were", then it will continue to have a bumpy ride. No-one, of course, will ever have to pay for the software as such. But a lot of people would be prepared to pay for the support encapsulated in _good_ documentation. Current Linux books are far from ideal, but people still buy them. They would even more readily buy a better one at the same price. Best wishes, Ted. -------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding@nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Date: 06-Feb-99 Time: 20:37:58 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------ - To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archiv at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>