Hi all: I've been in several Linux rooms and I notice a very big anti-KDE stance. My question is, what is so wrong with KDE? What about it inspires such hatred?
Just read the initial replies to Matthias' remarks about starting KDE way back when. http://groups.google.com/group/de.comp.os.linux.misc/msg/cb4b2d67ffc3ffce Even then people said, "hey we don't need another tool set," or "CDE is the best," or "Motif rocks!" People deride it because <a> it looks too much like windows, <b> it doesn't use a true "open source" toolkit (Qt), <c> it has a rather large footprint and <d> because it is popular. I first started using it back in '99 when I was on Mandrake 6.1 and really liked it over Motif or CDE. You will certianly find those who will think it is a pile of horse manure and they have their valid reasons. Anyway, much like anything, those who argue against something are often louder than those who argue for something. In short the Gnome people feel left out. As for me, I studied in Tubingen, so I think it is Kool. :) -- kai ponte www.perfectreign.com linux - genuine windows replacement part
Forgive for being a little biased in the face of so much objectivity, but I cannot see the point of, and indeed do get irritated by, titles such as "KDE v GNOME". There are superb programmes in both, highly practical programmes in both, both are more than capable window managers, and both are open source. Some Gnome applications I prefer to use, others are KDE. Most of my regular, most used programmes, are neither (I prefer wmaker, but I will not get into a holy war with someone who prefers ICE- we're both right, we use what we like and want). They are not in competition in my eyes, and I would like to see a reasoned argument that says it is "KDE v Gnome" as if this is some kind of third rate football match. Both are individual approaches to what we need and use, both are a highly creditable series, and both deserve our (as users) support. This kind of "Linux X" versus "Linux Y" argument goes nowhere, convinces no one, and only directs time and energy away from the development of freedom and choice with GNU Linux. It also enable trolls to argue that there is no Linus community, but only a wide variety of parochial, squabbling clans, each claiming their one version is the only true OS Use either, neither or both. Enjoy and extend the freedom. Just my 2d (tuppence, old money). Terence
Terence wrote:
Forgive for being a little biased in the face of so much objectivity, but I cannot see the point of, and indeed do get irritated by, titles such as "KDE v GNOME".
What I wanted to know was why this came about, not who's on the right or the wrong. Me, I use KDE; I just wanted to know what happened along the way.
Hey it does matter. Nothing grows without a comparison and competition. Whats going on is the best thing ever happened to the Linux Desktop? The was should go on between kde and gnome. On Wednesday 21 December 2005 06:18, Terence wrote:
Forgive for being a little biased in the face of so much objectivity, but I cannot see the point of, and indeed do get irritated by, titles such as "KDE v GNOME".
There are superb programmes in both, highly practical programmes in both, both are more than capable window managers, and both are open source. Some Gnome applications I prefer to use, others are KDE. Most of my regular, most used programmes, are neither (I prefer wmaker, but I will not get into a holy war with someone who prefers ICE- we're both right, we use what we like and want).
They are not in competition in my eyes, and I would like to see a reasoned argument that says it is "KDE v Gnome" as if this is some kind of third rate football match.
Both are individual approaches to what we need and use, both are a highly creditable series, and both deserve our (as users) support.
This kind of "Linux X" versus "Linux Y" argument goes nowhere, convinces no one, and only directs time and energy away from the development of freedom and choice with GNU Linux. It also enable trolls to argue that there is no Linus community, but only a wide variety of parochial, squabbling clans, each claiming their one version is the only true OS
Use either, neither or both. Enjoy and extend the freedom.
Just my 2d (tuppence, old money).
Terence
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:56:22 +0530, you wrote:
Hey it does matter.
Nothing grows without a comparison and competition. Whats going on is the best thing ever happened to the Linux Desktop? The was should go on between kde and gnome.
On Wednesday 21 December 2005 06:18, Terence wrote:
Forgive for being a little biased in the face of so much objectivity, but I cannot see the point of, and indeed do get irritated by, titles such as "KDE v GNOME".
There are superb programmes in both, highly practical programmes in both, both are more than capable window managers, and both are open source. Some Gnome applications I prefer to use, others are KDE. Most of my regular, most used programmes, are neither (I prefer wmaker, but I will not get into a holy war with someone who prefers ICE- we're both right, we use what we like and want).
They are not in competition in my eyes, and I would like to see a reasoned argument that says it is "KDE v Gnome" as if this is some kind of third rate football match.
Both are individual approaches to what we need and use, both are a highly creditable series, and both deserve our (as users) support.
This kind of "Linux X" versus "Linux Y" argument goes nowhere, convinces no one, and only directs time and energy away from the development of freedom and choice with GNU Linux. It also enable trolls to argue that there is no Linus community, but only a wide variety of parochial, squabbling clans, each claiming their one version is the only true OS
Use either, neither or both. Enjoy and extend the freedom.
Just my 2d (tuppence, old money).
Terence
I read a few articles fairly recently (Newsforge or /. - darned if I recall right now) that gave the answer. My paraphrase & distillation: The Gnome folks have one UI design philosophy and the KDE folks have a different one. The articles went on to describe the two, but I think I'll omit that - some fairly inflamatory words were used. Personally I prefer KDE. Gnome is aimed more at non-techies, from what I can see. Mike- -- Mornings: Evolution in action. Only the grumpy will survive. -- Please note - Due to the intense volume of spam, we have installed site-wide spam filters at catherders.com. If email from you bounces, try non-HTML, non-encoded, non-attachments.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2005-12-21 at 06:42 -0500, Michael W Cocke wrote:
Personally I prefer KDE. Gnome is aimed more at non-techies, from what I can see.
Not necessarily. I prefer gnome, probably because it has less "features", which I don't usually need. I use kde other times, and I use applications from both. And I consider myself "techie" ;-) But I certainly will not go around trying to convince people than one is better than the other, or that somebody is silly for choosing "the wrong one", whichever that be. It's a personal choice, and Linux is about freedom, no? - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFDqWP5tTMYHG2NR9URAuxZAKCWxOyiI0zHKxrFzMDzo7C456fQ+gCffd6y wA8kESK0MeBYIZaRFzxVkM8= =DDDo -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 13:56 +0530, Chaitanya Chalasani wrote:
Hey it does matter.
Nothing grows without a comparison and competition. Whats going on is the best thing ever happened to the Linux Desktop? The was should go on between kde and gnome.
Please do not top post. And yes if you want to post about which desktop is better than the other then take it to the OT list. That is what it is there for. This list is for helping others -not- polls. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2005-12-21 at 00:48 -0000, Terence wrote:
Use either, neither or both. Enjoy and extend the freedom.
Just my 2d (tuppence, old money).
And my 0.02 Eur. ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFDqVBwtTMYHG2NR9URArOcAJ4qStyUN6UVtbEBxwXWwtDtSM3dTwCglyAS cED3CPSnNcxJeSfCnpWIEjo= =XM6/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tuesday 20 December 2005 7:48 pm, Terence wrote:
They are not in competition in my eyes, and I would like to see a reasoned argument that says it is "KDE v Gnome" as if this is some kind of third rate football match. Perhaps we should phrase the question more like, Do you have any specific reasons for your preference/ After all if you are using a Suse distro, most (all?) the apps seem to work w/ both desktops.
It often seems to be more a "familiarity" preference . Those who came from Mac seem to prefer Gnome, and the former Windows folks prefer KDE. Neither desktop works the same way as the one they used to use, but perhaps are less scarey. For as long as I can remember there has been this constant drumbeat that "linux is too hard for average users. "Wrong on it's face! Our lists are filled w/ people who were "average" users. Linux is only used by " Haxor Kiddies who are l337" since *everybody* knows*normal* people can't cope w/ command lines. I don't understand this one, people used DOS before there was a GUI for what grew into Windows, and the 1337 Windows users use the command line still. It's often the only way to get stuff done! Some are complete beginners w/ computers, some are new to the information that there is any other OS than the one which was installed (FREE) on their computers. Many will graduate to be users who help others make the transition away from that other OS. Some will never switch.. <shrug> fine, Linux "True Believers" say let them use what they are happy w/. Choice is the thing we believe in most. -- j Morning, Evolution in action. only the grumpy will survive Don't try to change my attitude or rearrange my latitude; Don't tell me what I think, I got to get me some boat drinks
On Wednesday 21 December 2005 14:13, jfweber@bellsouth.net wrote:
Perhaps we should phrase the question more like, Do you have any specific reasons for your preference/
I like both, and have flipped among them (and occasional brief forays into the non-integrated desktops) for years. However, I tend to land in KDE most often. This time (10.0 now with KDE 3.5 installed), I have not started GNOME since upgrading from SuSE 9.3. I considered it a few times, but saw all the posts about problems with GNOME. I guess I've been waiting to hear the "All Clear". Is there a YaST repository - similar to the one where I got KDE 3.5 - that has a nice, stable, complete GNOME (with all the usual toys), with any of the early problems all cleaned up? I did select to have "everything" installed when I installed SuSE 10.0, so I have whatever GNOME stuff came on the DVD, plus whatever updates YOU has been giving me, but I'm not sure whether the problems that people reported in October and November would be considered fixes (therefore included in YOU updates) or upgrades (therefore not handled by YOU). So I'm avoiding starting GNOME until I feel that I probably won't break anything.
After all if you are using a Suse distro, most (all?) the apps seem to work w/ both desktops.
They do, but at a cost. Much of the modularity of KDE is achieved by having the KDE apps [re]use functionality of the base KDE. So, if you are in GNOME and start a KDE app, it probably needs to start half of KDE in order to have all its necessary working components. Thus you have all of GNOME overhead and a big chunk of KDE overhead while trying to run one or two KDE apps under GNOME. I think it works the same in the other direction, but not all the GNOME stuff is as tightly integrated as KDE, so there's maybe slightly less overhead penalty from running a GNOME app under KDE. That's all hearsay, however. I've detected a noticeable slowing of the system when I'm in one and call an app from the other, and the above was the explanation that was given by somebody smarter than I, last year. Even if it was true then, a lot can change in a year. Non-KDE and non-GNOME-specific apps, of course, just work regardless of which desktop is running, with no particular overhead implications. Cheers, Kevin
participants (9)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Chaitanya Chalasani -
elefino -
jfweber＠bellsouth.net -
John Meyer -
Kai Ponte -
Ken Schneider -
Michael W Cocke -
Terence