On May 29, 2001 11:25 pm, you wrote:

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 07:40 pm, Marcel wrote:

...

have you looked at http://www.suse.de/en/ lately or did I just miss it?: SuSE Linux 7.2 will be shipping on June 11th.

Is it my imagination, or was that a really short interval? I only just finished installing 7.1 last weekend! (Which I like very much BTW)

I was wondering the very same thing. What was so important that a new version was required so soon. I'm not complaining just curious. -- b stephen

Matt, quick - get out the old W95 box that will ward it off. No, wait, that'll make it attack. Try the Mac OSX cd - that won't work either. Hold on, hold on, ....... Ok...RUN matt RUN!!!! hehe (silly) -----Original Message----- From: Matthew [mailto:matthew@psychohorse.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2240 To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] suse 7.2!! b stephen harding wrote:

On May 29, 2001 11:25 pm, you wrote:

...

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 07:40 pm, Marcel wrote:

...

have you looked at http://www.suse.de/en/ lately or did I just miss it?: SuSE Linux 7.2 will be shipping on June 11th.

Is it my imagination, or was that a really short interval? I only just finished installing 7.1 last weekend! (Which I like very much BTW)

I was wondering the very same thing. What was so important that a new version was required so soon. I'm not complaining just curious.

-- b stephen

Because they have this arrow that goes along a bar...This bar measures how long it takes to upgrade the newest SuSE with rpms for improvements/security fixes. Once this reaches the threshold the HQ at SuSE starts blaring out an alarm to signify code freeze in 24 hours... Oh I said too much...Whats that at the door...Oh, no its breaking through, OMG Its GEEKO!!... -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 22:32, b stephen harding wrote:

I was wondering the very same thing. What was so important that a new version was required so soon. I'm not complaining just curious.

see http://www.suse.de/en/produkte/susesoft/linux/index.html please. -- Best Chris

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 23:24, b stephen harding wrote:

Ya I read that, but still wasn't sure if all that justified a new upgrade. Again just curiosity as I don't really know what goes into release decisions.

um I would say the following but not necessarily in the order posted. 1. a quarterly release schedule 2 speed of OS development 3 internal (SuSE) engineering advancements 4 market share and penetration 5 security and new product releases 6. competition 7. other factors that Im not aware of at this time but sure to be corrected...er educated..lol -- Best Chris

On Tuesday 29 May 2001 19:32, b stephen harding wrote:

I was wondering the very same thing. What was so important that a new version was required so soon. I'm not complaining just curious.

-- b stephen

I think competition has something to do with it. If you read in the press about the new Mandrake release some people say it eclipses SuSE 7.1 because it has more up-to-date packages. SuSE response? Release a new version with more up-to-date packages and hey presto! they are top of the heap again (from the reviewers limited point of view). Release often. Isn't that the Linux philosophy? As Ben says "New stuff is FUN!" Jethro

Not just your opinion. As I recall, when you were employed at SuSE and we had this same discussion on the list when 7.1 came out :) My opinion also ! Ben Rosenberg wrote:

* Jethro Cramp (jsc@rock-tnsc.com) [010530 19:01]: -> ->Release often. Isn't that the Linux philosophy? As Ben says "New stuff is ->FUN!" ->

Well, You also have to think that 7.1 was finished in early January, so it's going on 6 months old and with Linux packages/software changing as they do..every 6 months isn't that bad. I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.

On Wednesday 30 May 2001 22:51, Ben wrote:

I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.

I would rather pay $300.00 for 3 Linux Distros than be given Microsoft Windows for free. How the hell M$ sold so much software is a mystery to me. It's really pathetic stuff. The detractors of Linux say it comes with no applications. Are these people brain dead? All Linux distros come with C, C++, Python and Perl. All you get with M$ is Visual Basic. I'd rather use my K+E Log-Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that that stuff. -- Cheers, Jonathan

Hi !! I'm making the backup of my linux users via Crontab... I make a Script that make the backup for each one of the users. If I run manually the backup from the shell it run ok, but if it run's from the Crontab, it doesn't make the backup. thanks bye --ed This is the script content # Get the aliases and functions if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then . ~/.bashrc fi # User specific environment and startup programs PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin ENV=$HOME/.bashrc USERNAME="root" export USERNAME ENV PATH for j in `ls /var/mnt/System/User | grep -v backup.exe | grep -v backup | grep -v evega | grep -v backup` do RESP_TOC=/var/mnt/System/User/backup/"$j"_`date '+%d%m%Y_%H%C'`.toc RESP_TAR=/var/mnt/System/User/backup/"$j"_`date '+%d%m%Y_%H%C'`.tar echo `date` > $RESP_TOC echo "Backing up "$j >> $RESP_TOC echo "/p" >> $RESP_TOC ls -lah -R /var/mnt/System/User/$j >> $RESP_TOC tar cf $RESP_TAR $j done

On Thursday 31 May 2001 01:56 am, you wrote:

On Wednesday 30 May 2001 22:51, Ben wrote:

...

I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.

I would rather pay $300.00 for 3 Linux Distros than be given Microsoft Windows for free.

How the hell M$ sold so much software is a mystery to me. It's really pathetic stuff. The detractors of Linux say it comes with no applications. Are these people brain dead? All Linux distros come with C, C++, Python and Perl. All you get with M$ is Visual Basic. I'd rather use my K+E Log-Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that that stuff.

So let's do some addition. I'm going to give it to you right between the eyes, so that everyone here knows what a business *should be paying* for Microsoft's software. The "business" could also be a department in a larger business, but I'm assuming that the "business" has 25 people or less, will have 1 central server that will be running SQL Server 2000 for their database, that there are 24 "sales/marketing people and/or project managers" and 1 "developer". In a real scenario, you'd have to accomodate a "DBA", at least 1 "sysadmin", and at least 1 "computer operator" that would run batch programs to process whatever data the business was in to. There would probably be more than 1 developer too, but if this "business" is just starting off, they might be running with a lean crew, which would force the developer to wear many hats. I am not going to take into account the price of any hardware, this is just a study in the cost of doing business using Microsoft's software products. I'm also depicting a business starting from scratch -- no "upgrades". My goal is to show you how much money a business pays to Microsoft just for their software. Disclaimer: This is not a definitive guide, it's just me (a developer who has been working with Microsoft's software for 10 years) doing a bit of cost analysis. I was also a sysadmin for a company that switched to be all Microsoft and have seen this first hand. Prepare to be shocked. These listings are all from http://www.outpost.com, which is a 6 year old online retailer, and which I've found to have somewhat decent pricing. I'll even provide the item numbers, and URLs, in case you want to verify everything for yourself. Item No: 99376 Product: Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server with 25 Client Access Licenses Price: $3,549.00 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/99376 NOTE: The Advanced Server edition is required to run SQL Server 2000. Item No: 99826 Product: Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Standard Edition (1 Processor License) Price: $4,800.00 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/99826 NOTE: This might not be the right version, but who cares. Item No: 11690 Product: Microsoft Exchange 2000 Enterprise Server (25 Clients) Price: $6,529.95 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/11690 Item No: 99373 Product: Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Price: $279.95 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/99373 NOTE: You need 25 of these. Item No: 54150 Product: Microsoft Office 2000 Professional Price: $549.95 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/54150 NOTE: You need 25 of these. Item No: 67374 Product: Microsoft Visual Studio Professional 6.0 with Plus Pack Price: $1,029.00 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/67374 Ok, So here we do the final addition: $3,549.00 $4,800.00 $6,529.95 $279.95x25=$6998.75 $549.95x25=$13748.75 $1029.00 ---------------------------------------- For a grand total of: $36,655.45 And that is just in software purchases alone... and I have left out a *ton* of other software that people would need, like resource kits and regular 3rd party business type software (anti-virus, system management, backup, etc). I wouldn't be surprised if a business "start up" would pay more than $40,000 in just regular software licenses. Keep in mind, there are only 25 "allowed" client accesses to the server. So after spending $40K large, you are *still* limited in what you can do! So there you have it.. why open source software will kick the living sh*t out of closed source Microsoft software... as soon as businesses cannot easily and transparently pirate this software, they *will* come looking for something else. And we'll be ready. Or you can get SuSE's 7.1/7.2 Professional distribution, which comes with $40,000 worth of software, for the low low price of just $70.00. I hope your face doesn't stay glued in that big silly grin you have now ;^) -Steven

Abso-bloody-lutely! I don't care if you use my name or not. Also, you might want to include what Mr. Colin Valentine said as well -- the common misconception that people "get their software for free" when they buy it bundled with their machine. It might be cheaper, but it certainly isn't free! The Microsoft Tax must go! Have a great day! -Steven On Thursday 31 May 2001 12:44 pm, Curtis Rey wrote:

A(F#$%ing)MEN. That's the info I was looking for. May I have your permission to use parts of this to mail to editors and mag writers in response to their articles? If you'ld like I can make sure that the source is either declarative or anonymous.

Cheeeeeeeeeeeeers, Curtis Rey

On Thursday 31 May 2001 09:16 am, Steven Hatfield wrote:

...

On Thursday 31 May 2001 01:56 am, you wrote:

...

On Wednesday 30 May 2001 22:51, Ben wrote:

...

I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.

I would rather pay $300.00 for 3 Linux Distros than be given Microsoft Windows for free.

How the hell M$ sold so much software is a mystery to me. It's really pathetic stuff. The detractors of Linux say it comes with no applications. Are these people brain dead? All Linux distros come with C, C++, Python and Perl. All you get with M$ is Visual Basic. I'd rather use my K+E Log-Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that that stuff.

So let's do some addition. I'm going to give it to you right between the eyes, so that everyone here knows what a business *should be paying* for Microsoft's software. The "business" could also be a department in a larger business, but I'm assuming that the "business" has 25 people or less, will have 1 central server that will be running SQL Server 2000 for their database, that there are 24 "sales/marketing people and/or project managers" and 1 "developer". In a real scenario, you'd have to accomodate a "DBA", at least 1 "sysadmin", and at least 1 "computer operator" that would run batch programs to process whatever data the business was in to. There would probably be more than 1 developer too, but if this "business" is just starting off, they might be running with a lean crew, which would force the developer to wear many hats.

I am not going to take into account the price of any hardware, this is just a study in the cost of doing business using Microsoft's software products. I'm also depicting a business starting from scratch -- no "upgrades". My goal is to show you how much money a business pays to Microsoft just for their software.

Disclaimer: This is not a definitive guide, it's just me (a developer who has been working with Microsoft's software for 10 years) doing a bit of cost analysis. I was also a sysadmin for a company that switched to be all Microsoft and have seen this first hand. Prepare to be shocked.

These listings are all from http://www.outpost.com, which is a 6 year old online retailer, and which I've found to have somewhat decent pricing. I'll even provide the item numbers, and URLs, in case you want to verify everything for yourself.

Item No: 99376 Product: Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server with 25 Client Access Licenses Price: $3,549.00 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/99376 NOTE: The Advanced Server edition is required to run SQL Server 2000.

Item No: 99826 Product: Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Standard Edition (1 Processor License) Price: $4,800.00 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/99826 NOTE: This might not be the right version, but who cares.

Item No: 11690 Product: Microsoft Exchange 2000 Enterprise Server (25 Clients) Price: $6,529.95 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/11690

Item No: 99373 Product: Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Price: $279.95 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/99373 NOTE: You need 25 of these.

Item No: 54150 Product: Microsoft Office 2000 Professional Price: $549.95 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/54150 NOTE: You need 25 of these.

Item No: 67374 Product: Microsoft Visual Studio Professional 6.0 with Plus Pack Price: $1,029.00 URL: http://shop2.outpost.com/product/67374

Ok, So here we do the final addition: $3,549.00 $4,800.00 $6,529.95 $279.95x25=$6998.75 $549.95x25=$13748.75 $1029.00 ---------------------------------------- For a grand total of: $36,655.45

And that is just in software purchases alone... and I have left out a *ton* of other software that people would need, like resource kits and regular 3rd party business type software (anti-virus, system management, backup, etc).

I wouldn't be surprised if a business "start up" would pay more than $40,000 in just regular software licenses. Keep in mind, there are only 25 "allowed" client accesses to the server. So after spending $40K large, you are *still* limited in what you can do!

So there you have it.. why open source software will kick the living sh*t out of closed source Microsoft software... as soon as businesses cannot easily and transparently pirate this software, they *will* come looking for something else. And we'll be ready.

Or you can get SuSE's 7.1/7.2 Professional distribution, which comes with $40,000 worth of software, for the low low price of just $70.00.

I hope your face doesn't stay glued in that big silly grin you have now ;^)

-Steven

On Wednesday 30 May 2001 19:51, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

Well, You also have to think that 7.1 was finished in early January, so it's going on 6 months old and with Linux packages/software changing as they do..every 6 months isn't that bad. I would rather pay $50 every 6 months then $300 (W2K Feb 2000) then have to spend another $150-200 for XP 18 months later..and when Linux improves..it impoves..it's not just cosmetic most of the time. This is just my opinion.

I couldn't agree with you more. I've got the subscription and (fingers crossed) look forward to 7.2 arriving on my doorstep. I use Linux for work so it's very easy to justify the expense of buying every release (which at the end of the day when compared with windows, buying every release is still INCREDIBLY cheap). Jethro

I would just bare in mind that during these hard times..this release could make or break a company.

Guilt trip...I was going to miss this release, guess not...Oh well, guess I need some form maintance done to my cable modem, which makes an excuse to give away an old box to someone in need. I like the mail virus scanner thingie...Encrypted loopbak for the day I can afford a laptop... Matt

On Tue, 29 May 2001, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

nice..and heck if you don't want to upgrade..don't. I went from 6.4 on my home box to 7.1 *shrug*. I would just bare in mind that during these hard times..this release could make or break a company.

Besides...new stuff is FUN!

That's what I thought, ...until I started playing with 7.1! SuSE, take your time and get it right for 7.2. I'm still running 6.4 on my main box, because my attempts to get 7.1 running on the laptop are still giving me fits. If I buy 7.2 it'll be out of sheer frustration, and the hope that a fresh start and a clean install will go better than the last one... -- Rick Green "I have the heart of a little child, and the brain of a genius. ... and I keep them in a jar under my bed"

Oh, I WILL be buying the boxed pro version. I agree with all of the above.

I just bought the boxed 7.1Pro about 5 days ago *sighs*. I should have held off for another month :) Connor..