On 03/05/2012 01:23 AM, Roger Luedecke wrote:

On Sun, 2012-03-04 at 15:31 -0800, Thomas Taylor wrote:

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Frankly, I keep running into too many anomalies in LibreOffice vs. MS Office. Though I could run Office through Wine, I would rather have a native solution. I googled it to death, and couldn't seem to find anything.

Could you be a bit more specific about the anomalies? I haven't run into anything major and the minor things could usually be fixed with changes to settings or creation of macros.

Certainly minor, but annoying. Worst thing really is inconsistent behavior. Hard to explain, I should have wrote it down while I was experiencing it. Trying out Lotus Symphony... and so far I like it. Still would need LibreOffice for dealing with MS formats, but looks like Lotus is a strong contender. I think I'll blog about it once I get used to it more.

Surely you know that OO is probably a descendent, or at least a very close cousin of Symphony. But Symphony has at least the nice finishing touches of a commercial product, not something hacked out in somebody's garage. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 07:43, Per Jessen wrote:

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Frankly, I keep running into too many anomalies in LibreOffice vs. MS Office. Though I could run Office through Wine, I would rather have a native solution. I googled it to death, and couldn't seem to find anything.

Could you be a bit more specific about the anomalies?  I haven't run into anything major and the minor things could usually be fixed with changes to settings or creation of macros.

Certainly minor, but annoying. Worst thing really is inconsistent behavior. Hard to explain, I should have wrote it down while I was experiencing it. Trying out Lotus Symphony... and so far I like it. Still would need LibreOffice for dealing with MS formats, but looks like Lotus is a strong contender. I think I'll blog about it once I get used to it more.

Surely you know that OO is probably a descendent, or at least a very close cousin of Symphony.

The other way around - OO was originally StarOffice, and Lotus Symphony is now based on OO.

Lotus Symphony is essentially an *older* version of OpenOffice.org with a new Eclipse based frontend, a few customizations... and not a lot more (although they did some bug fixing that didn't always make its way back into the OOo trunk). So, any file format/round-trip quirks in LS are highly likely to be the same as in the OOo3.0/3.1-ish timeframe (last time I know of that IBM took a snapshot of OOo for LS). On top of that, IBM has announced that they are dropping Lotus Symphony as it is now, and focusing only on Apache Open Office. See: http://www.edbrill.com/ebrill/edbrill.nsf/dx/ibm-lotus-symphony-3.0.1-is-now... which states that the Eclipse overlay will no longer be a part of LS and any future releases of LS will essentially be Apache Open Office. There are no real top tier *commercial* office software packages available for Linux that are a prefect match for MS Office. You have OpenOffice.org (replaced by AOO), Apache Open Office (created out of the remains of OOo), LibreOffice (forked from OOo), Lotus Symphony (based on an old release of OOo, and discontinued), KOffice, Caligra Suite (based on KOffice), and SoftMaker Office, plus a smattering of others like gnumeric, AbiWord and so on. Outside of that, you have a few web based office tools.. Zoho, Google and Microsoft are prob the top choices (Oracle/Sun made and announced Cloud Office... but it was never released, and LIbreOffice has made noise about a cloud/web based office suite, but so far nothing is really available beyond tech demos from the last LibO Conference). SoftMaker Office is probably the only non-OOo office suite out there... and while it's pretty good... to be honest, it lacks a lot of what LibreOffice already has. It has odd issues running on 64 bit... it doesn't have a Presenter Console (last I checked)... and (again, last time I checked) if you're trying to evaluate it with the free version, you can't move files from one install of SMO to another... the files are locked to the install that created the files (buy a license and the restriction is removed). If you want MS Office in Linux, then look into Crossover from Codeweavers. The new version 11 of Crossover is due out sometime soon (I don't know a release date, but the Beta/RC cycle for 11.0 should be finished soon). They explicitly support MS Office, and each release really improves on the compatibility. Yes it's Wine, but they add on a lot of tweaks and extras on top of Wine to make things like MS Office install and work a LOT better. If you hang on just a little bit and try out Crossover 11.0 once it's released you might be pleasantly surprised at how well MSO is working. Bleh... I spent far too much time up to my neck in the world of open source office software over the past few years :-) It was fun.. and I miss working for OpenOffice... good times... oh well. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 05.03.2012 14:05, schrieb Mark Misulich:

On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 23:38 -0800, Roger Luedecke wrote:

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Frankly, I keep running into too many anomalies in LibreOffice vs. MS Office. Though I could run Office through Wine, I would rather have a native solution. I googled it to death, and couldn't seem to find anything.

I make up a monthly newsletter for a non-profit group to which I belong. I have tried for several years to convert to some software which I could run on linux, in favor of using WinSomething and MSOfficeSuite. I have tried to use each of the various Office Suites available for linux, and they all seem to come up short. Softmaker Office seems to be the best I have used, but even it comes up short when I start to make up the cover page graphics. I have posted bugs on the LO/OOo problems that still aren't fixed after a couple of years of waiting.

I do have Office 2000 installed with Wine, but it is a little flaky and just isn't reliable enough for me. I have tried crossover office in the past and it wasn't much better than Wine. Maybe it has improved by now. Adobe Acrobat 6 installed in Wine in the past, but it won't install now with the present Wine. So I can't use the Wine installed programs to make up the newsletter in MSOffice then convert it to pdf for emailing.

My best solution so far has been to install WinXx in VirtualBox, with guest extensions so that I can use it full-screen. I use Office2000 and Adobe 6 in that virtual machine without a hitch. Not exactly Linux, but at least I am not selecting Windxxx in the Grub list of operating systems. The WinXx disc I have wouldn't install in my computer after I have upgraded the motherboard and cpu for the second or third time anyways even after slipstreaming new drivers. Besides, WinXx and the Office2000/Acrobat 6 is getting to be pretty old software. They do install in VirtualBox without a hitch, and run fine.

Hi, did you try Scribus? Karl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Mark Misulich said the following on 03/05/2012 08:50 AM:

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Hi,

did you try Scribus?

Karl Hi, yes I did. I think it is supposed to be similar to MSPublisher. I am very limited on how large the file size can be since I send the newsletter to members on dial-up isp's. I found that both Scribus and MSPublisher made a larger file size than what I was able to produce in Word. Scribus and MSPublisher are both great products, but for my particular circumstances Word worked best in comparison.

What is it you send out? The MS-word .doc file? The Scribus sla file? As I've said, as many people have pointed out, different versions of MS-Word format differently. I hope you send out a system independent format such as a PDF. The thing I like about PDF is that it looks *exactly* like you want it to look on any destination machine. Its why so many people use it for publishing. That's not to say some PDF generators are awful. But that's not the problem; there are plenty of tools to do cleanup. Just as you can use 'tidy' to clean up the abysmal HTML that MS-Word produces ... -- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 05/03/2012 13:14, Mark Misulich a écrit :

I have tried every combination of file from Word,OOo and LOo, Scribus, MSPublisher, then convert it to PDF in several ways. It always comes out as a smaller file if I use Word then Acrobat, than any other combination to produce it.

so the problem is converting a document to the smaller pdf possiblme. There are several ways to produce it. Could you link us to an example (dummy) of the document you produce? thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Thorolf Godawa said the following on 03/05/2012 01:17 PM:

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so the problem is converting a document to the smaller pdf possiblme. I can't see a problem there.

If some PDF documents created from the same source are relevant bigger than others, the only reason for this can be embedded data, like fonts or images.

In LO you can change if and how much images should be compressed an in which resolution they are saved.

Playing with this should result in small and good enough quality PDFs!

I forgot to ask: Which version of PDF? 1.2, 1.3 or 1.4? You can run the Linux tool 'pdffonts' on the two different files, one produced with MS-Word and one produced with OOo/LOo. Pdffonts will tell you which fonts are used and which are embedded in the file I know that the PDF is supposed to be 'optimal', but there are many ways of rearranging the sections and internal pointers which will alter the way its displayed (e.g.sequence) and there are tools that can "optimise" this. I've not experimented to see if they make a significant difference to file size. Hmm http://www.alfredklomp.com/programming/shrinkpdf/ http://www.ubuntugeek.com/ubuntu-tiphowto-reduce-adobe-acrobat-file-size-fro... -- "I don't mind a parasite, I object to a cut-rate one" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 05.03.2012 14:50, schrieb Mark Misulich:

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Hi,

did you try Scribus?

Karl Hi, yes I did. I think it is supposed to be similar to MSPublisher. I am very limited on how large the file size can be since I send the newsletter to members on dial-up isp's. I found that both Scribus and MSPublisher made a larger file size than what I was able to produce in Word. Scribus and MSPublisher are both great products, but for my particular circumstances Word worked best in comparison.

Hi, if you export to pdf, the filesize should not be bigger than any other program. But of course the size of your images is crucial. Usually 72 or 96 dpi are more than enough for electronic distribution. If I understood you right your main problem is the title page because you want it to be more "fancy" than the rest of the document. You can create a nice frontpage in Scribus and the rest in OO. Karl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 15:13, Anton Aylward wrote:

fixes??) with themselves.  I've seen/heard many complaints that documents produced in one version don't print out exactly the same using another ... different page breaks, automatic spacing and things like that.

That can even come down to printer drivers. You can open up a new document on Office 2007... create/edit/layout the contents. Move that document to another computer running Office 2007 but with a different printer driver as default and the layout will change (I used Office 2007 as an arbitrary example here... could be any equivalent versions). Then add to the mess by changing Office version and you have yet again a whole new layer of incompatibility or changes. Try creating a presentation in PowerPoint2010 with nice transitions etc.. then open that same document (if you can) in Office 2003... you won't have the exact same presentation anymore. People are using any number of combinations of MS Office and printer drivers. Anything you create in MSO has a good chance of being borked in any other random version of MSO. You will find the same level of oops in LibreOffice. The latest LibreOffice is much improved over previous version - it even can open Visio files now. You should find less incompatibility between LO and MSO... although.. Office Open XML (docx, xlsx etc) and MS Office still has interesting hidden layers of WTF built into it that will periodically reach out and smack you when you're trying to round trip a document.... my pet peeve is... set up a spreadsheet in LibreOffice, export to xls or xlsx... open in MS Office 2010, make an edit, save... now open that document in LibreOffice again and all your formulas will have been stripped out by MS Office when it saved. Not LibreOffice's fault.. it's MSO being annoying. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 15:58, Anton Aylward wrote:

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People are using any number of combinations of MS Office and printer drivers.  Anything you create in MSO has a good chance of being borked in any other random version of MSO.  You will find the same level of oops in LibreOffice.

Which is why, if I want to have control over the presentation of anything I send out, I use PDF.

Use HybridPDF and you win :-) Just FYI to anyone unaware of HybridPDFs... this embeds an ODF file in the PDF. It looks like a regular PDF to anyone who opens it with Acrobat Reader/Ocular etc, but if you open it with OOo/LibreOffice or other HybridPDF capable office application, you get the original embedded ODF file... which you can then edit/save/export as a new HybridPDF. This is a fully documented part of the PDF ISO standard.. not some wild extra. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 3/5/2012 12:05 PM, upscope wrote:

C wrote:

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On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 15:58, Anton Aylward wrote:

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People are using any number of combinations of MS Office and printer drivers. Anything you create in MSO has a good chance of being borked in any other random version of MSO. You will find the same level of oops in LibreOffice.

Which is why, if I want to have control over the presentation of anything I send out, I use PDF.

Use HybridPDF and you win :-)

Just FYI to anyone unaware of HybridPDFs... this embeds an ODF file in the PDF. It looks like a regular PDF to anyone who opens it with Acrobat Reader/Ocular etc, but if you open it with OOo/LibreOffice or other HybridPDF capable office application, you get the original embedded ODF file... which you can then edit/save/export as a new HybridPDF.

This is a fully documented part of the PDF ISO standard.. not some wild extra.

C. If I'm not mistaken latest versions of LibreOffice allow you to save the .odt as .pdf/.odt document.

Yes, he mentioned that, and it does work. You pretty much have to drag and drop the pdf on LO, because its not normally set up to open PDF. Its pretty cool, but unless you know its been saved that way there is no way to tell other than try to open it. My only complaint with LO is the obtuse places they have hidden some of the functionality which makes it seem less capable than it is. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/05/2012 12:59 PM, Dennis Gallien wrote:

On Monday, March 05, 2012 03:49 PM John Andersen wrote:

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On 3/5/2012 12:05 PM, upscope wrote:

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C wrote:

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On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 15:58, Anton Aylward wrote:

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People are using any number of combinations of MS Office and printer drivers. Anything you create in MSO has a good chance of being borked in any other random version of MSO. You will find the same level of oops in LibreOffice.

Which is why, if I want to have control over the presentation of anything I send out, I use PDF.

Use HybridPDF and you win :-)

Just FYI to anyone unaware of HybridPDFs... this embeds an ODF file in the PDF. It looks like a regular PDF to anyone who opens it with Acrobat Reader/Ocular etc, but if you open it with OOo/LibreOffice or other HybridPDF capable office application, you get the original embedded ODF file... which you can then edit/save/export as a new HybridPDF.

This is a fully documented part of the PDF ISO standard.. not some wild extra.

C.

If I'm not mistaken latest versions of LibreOffice allow you to save the .odt as .pdf/.odt document.

Yes, he mentioned that, and it does work. You pretty much have to drag and drop the pdf on LO, because its not normally set up to open PDF.

Its pretty cool, but unless you know its been saved that way there is no way to tell other than try to open it.

My only complaint with LO is the obtuse places they have hidden some of the functionality which makes it seem less capable than it is.

The Open File dialog box pull down has a PDF option in the list.

Yeah, but try that with a non HybridPDF and you usually get an pop-up error box. Best case is it contrives to open it as a LO-Draw object full of text boxes. It would really be nice if you could filter the list of documents by selecting only the HybridPDF documents. I suppose for the windows world this might require an additional extension, but Linux should be able to tell by inspection. Copying text is a pain. Often printing and scanning it works better. -- Explain again the part about rm -rf / -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/05/2012 05:05 AM, Mark Misulich wrote:

My best solution so far has been to install WinXx in VirtualBox, with guest extensions so that I can use it full-screen. I use Office2000 and Adobe 6 in that virtual machine without a hitch. Not exactly Linux, but at least I am not selecting Windxxx in the Grub list of operating systems. The WinXx disc I have wouldn't install in my computer after I have upgraded the motherboard and cpu for the second or third time anyways even after slipstreaming new drivers. Besides, WinXx and the Office2000/Acrobat 6 is getting to be pretty old software. They do install in VirtualBox without a hitch, and run fine.

Yup, I use Virtualbox with Win-XP for those work-related things that won't ever be compatible by design too. But you have to be very careful if you ever connect your vbox guest to the Internet without making sure that Windows and third-party applications are up-to-date with all the security fixes. In particular, the Adobe products (Acroread, Flash, etc) and Java have to be current or you'll be owned by the Chinese or the Russian Mafia in no time. Further, you have to manually remove old versions of Java, Acroread, etc. These old versions are still vulnerable and can be leveraged by malware to take over your system if they're still in the "Add /Remove Programs" tab. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 15:35, Jim Flanagan wrote:

Just a couple of wild cards to throw into the mix.

I wonder if MS Office 365 will work on Linux. (No I'm not joking, it could solve the problem). Its web based, and you likely won't be doing any active directory stuff so it might. Was $6USD per mo last I checked.

According to this: http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/v3-co-uk-labs-blog/2086291/office-365-mac-linux yes as long as you don't need Office Communicator. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org