[opensuse] Desktop Eval - Maybe Useful to Some...
Listmates, This is an excerpt from another post I wrote recently in an offlist discussion, but I thought I would pass along the general parts concerning the desktop evaluations just in case anyone else may want a little summary of what all the alternative desktops for openSuSE are and a sentence or two about each. Gnome and KDE will always be the titans of the Linux desktop, but don't overlook enlightenment, the "BoxTops" or iceWM, they are really really good desktops. Simple, but good. And since you already have your kde or gnome apps installed, just fire them up in the desktop of your choice. (Yes, VirtualBox works fine in all of them as well). The only caveat is that you will need to use yast to set up your network to use traditional ifup so you don't have to mess with starting your network in each of the desktops each time you login. Simple enough. I have probably spent more time in enlightenment lately that I have in either gnome or KDE. (Not that I'm dissing either). The waltz though the other desktops was largely prompted by wanting to find a good looking 'light-weight' desktop that worked well through vnc or nx. It just so happens that enlightenment, openbox and a couple of others are are so good that they are worth serious consideration as your daily driver when you are in the mood for a change (or need to work on your kde4 settings without kde4 running). So without more, here goes: * blackbox (openbox with more tools [panels, runner app, etc..] * E-16 (absolutely love it -- I'd probably have to call this my favorite - it's been stable since 2000) I think I've passed a screenshot along before, but if not, here it is. I really like this desktop! Out of the 100's of themes available, just make sure you pull '23ozGlass', 'DarkOne', and 'Ganymede' themes. (you'll dig them) By far, the Ganymede theme is the most thorough, but below I'm using the DarkOne theme: http://www.3111skyline.com/download/ss/e/e16/e16-my-favorite-setup.jpg (it's 279k, but worth the extra 20 seconds of download) Make sure you get all the epplets AND the keyeditor for assigning shortcuts and you can make this desktop 'sing.' * E-17 (absolutely love it too. Both e16 and e17 are great dt's. e17 requires restart every now and then, but it is a gorgeous dt that is really coming together) Just make sure you get the 'A-SBlack-Esp1' theme. (you'll like it) * fluxbox - another good desktop. It uses a 'slit' (hidden task/icon bar) that works pretty well. * gnome - (never thought I would say it, but I really like it too. Talk about phenomenal 'dark themes' wow. Combine 'Neon' with 'Sonar' decorations and I don't think I've seen a better window layout) Not to mention all gtk apps are automatically themed correctly. * icewm - still a favorite over vnc. The UFO and microGUI themes are really nice. * you know kde/kde4 - enough said * lxde (blackbox, fluxbox, icewm and openbox + some nice tools for dynamic menus (scans gnome, kde & other apps and then is smart enough cache the results so the latest apps are always available in the menu if you have menu cache installed. (must have) I really like lxde too. All of this class of dt are incredibly solid dt's (bb, fb, icewm, ob, etc..) they just lack a bit of the creature comforts provided by enlightenment, kde and gnome) The only drawback I've found in this class is the absence or patchy disk cache/memory cache routines. I don't know why kdebase just doesn't take care of it when you open konqueror and expand /usr/share or something similar, but you can definitely tell a difference in the cache area. That does NOT mean they are unusable at all. What that means is that I had to look real hard to find any notable difference in desktop performance, and that is all I could come up with. * openbox - the best of class for this class of desktops. You have as many of the creature comforts as you are going to get with openbox. (make sure you have obmenu, obconf and wallmenu-0.3.py installed for you configuration editor, menu editor and dynamic wallpaper changing. It too has good support for dynamic menus & wallpaper changing, etc.. The only shortfall is the alt-f2 run command. Here you just have to grab either 'bbrun' from blackbox or 'fbrun' from flux and you are good to go. You are also in luck on themes. I know everone has a different taste, but I just got done summarizing a few of my favorite themes for openbox as well. (there are hundreds to choose from). Here is the collection you want to make sure are installed in /usr/share/themes: <short list> Artwiz-boxed Chaos2 Cyclism Carbon Mikachu Mire_v2_blue Onyx Spiffish <the "don't overlook" list> AbsE Bamboo BBstyle Curdled Dyne Gelb Isawagorilla Jolly Light-industry Mars Misted MOnst4-sky Nova-Blue Nova-Gold Onyx-black Onyx-Citrus Onyx-dcr Operation Peptide Simple Spiffe Spoff Wblue ** A few of the themes need a few 'tweaks', but other than that, they look great. This is pretty much the summary of my desktop eval. They all install easily with just a few config changes needed to setup the wallpaper changes, etc. Also, this isn't meant as a 'one dt is better than the other' post, so nobody start throwing rocks. I like them all. I know there are more benefits for each of the desktops that I haven't run across yet, so if you have a point or two to add, please help me out. All of the desktops above are available through yast/zypper. I would suggest loading a few additional repositories if you want to install them. The primary OBS window manager repository is: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/windowmanagers/ where you will find newer but stable versions of the desktops plus all the tools (obmenu, obconf, etc...) You can also add the individual WM repositories if you want to install the latest svn build such as: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Enlightenment/ These are all great desktops and they have have their particular niche. If you have thought about taking them on a test-drive, I highly recommend it. Enjoy! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11 December 09, David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates,
This is an excerpt from another post I wrote recently in an offlist discussion, but I thought I would pass along the general parts concerning the desktop evaluations just in case anyone else may want a little summary of what all the alternative desktops for openSuSE are and a sentence or two about each. Gnome and KDE will always be the titans of the Linux desktop, but don't overlook enlightenment, the "BoxTops" or iceWM, they are really really good desktops. Simple, but good. And since you already have your kde or gnome apps installed, just fire them up in the desktop of your choice. (Yes, VirtualBox works fine in all of them as well). The only caveat is that you will need to use yast to set up your network to use traditional ifup so you don't have to mess with starting your network in each of the desktops each time you login. Simple enough.
I have probably spent more time in enlightenment lately that I have in either gnome or KDE. (Not that I'm dissing either). The waltz though the other desktops was largely prompted by wanting to find a good looking 'light-weight' desktop that worked well through vnc or nx. It just so happens that enlightenment, openbox and a couple of others are are so good that they are worth serious consideration as your daily driver when you are in the mood for a change (or need to work on your kde4 settings without kde4 running). So without more, here goes:
* blackbox (openbox with more tools [panels, runner app, etc..]
* E-16 (absolutely love it -- I'd probably have to call this my favorite - it's been stable since 2000) I think I've passed a screenshot along before, but if not, here it is. I really like this desktop! Out of the 100's of themes available, just make sure you pull '23ozGlass', 'DarkOne', and 'Ganymede' themes. (you'll dig them) By far, the Ganymede theme is the most thorough, but below I'm using the DarkOne theme:
http://www.3111skyline.com/download/ss/e/e16/e16-my-favorite-setup.jpg (it's 279k, but worth the extra 20 seconds of download)
Make sure you get all the epplets AND the keyeditor for assigning shortcuts and you can make this desktop 'sing.'
* E-17 (absolutely love it too. Both e16 and e17 are great dt's. e17 requires restart every now and then, but it is a gorgeous dt that is really coming together) Just make sure you get the 'A-SBlack-Esp1' theme. (you'll like it)
* fluxbox - another good desktop. It uses a 'slit' (hidden task/icon bar) that works pretty well.
* gnome - (never thought I would say it, but I really like it too. Talk about phenomenal 'dark themes' wow. Combine 'Neon' with 'Sonar' decorations and I don't think I've seen a better window layout) Not to mention all gtk apps are automatically themed correctly.
* icewm - still a favorite over vnc. The UFO and microGUI themes are really nice.
* you know kde/kde4 - enough said
* lxde (blackbox, fluxbox, icewm and openbox + some nice tools for dynamic menus (scans gnome, kde & other apps and then is smart enough cache the results so the latest apps are always available in the menu if you have menu cache installed. (must have) I really like lxde too. All of this class of dt are incredibly solid dt's (bb, fb, icewm, ob, etc..) they just lack a bit of the creature comforts provided by enlightenment, kde and gnome) The only drawback I've found in this class is the absence or patchy disk cache/memory cache routines. I don't know why kdebase just doesn't take care of it when you open konqueror and expand /usr/share or something similar, but you can definitely tell a difference in the cache area. That does NOT mean they are unusable at all. What that means is that I had to look real hard to find any notable difference in desktop performance, and that is all I could come up with.
* openbox - the best of class for this class of desktops. You have as many of the creature comforts as you are going to get with openbox. (make sure you have obmenu, obconf and wallmenu-0.3.py installed for you configuration editor, menu editor and dynamic wallpaper changing. It too has good support for dynamic menus & wallpaper changing, etc.. The only shortfall is the alt-f2 run command. Here you just have to grab either 'bbrun' from blackbox or 'fbrun' from flux and you are good to go.
You are also in luck on themes. I know everone has a different taste, but I just got done summarizing a few of my favorite themes for openbox as well. (there are hundreds to choose from). Here is the collection you want to make sure are installed in /usr/share/themes:
<short list>
Artwiz-boxed Chaos2 Cyclism Carbon Mikachu Mire_v2_blue Onyx Spiffish
<the "don't overlook" list>
AbsE Bamboo BBstyle Curdled Dyne Gelb Isawagorilla Jolly Light-industry Mars Misted MOnst4-sky Nova-Blue Nova-Gold Onyx-black Onyx-Citrus Onyx-dcr Operation Peptide Simple Spiffe Spoff Wblue
** A few of the themes need a few 'tweaks', but other than that, they look great.
This is pretty much the summary of my desktop eval. They all install easily with just a few config changes needed to setup the wallpaper changes, etc. Also, this isn't meant as a 'one dt is better than the other' post, so nobody start throwing rocks. I like them all. I know there are more benefits for each of the desktops that I haven't run across yet, so if you have a point or two to add, please help me out.
All of the desktops above are available through yast/zypper. I would suggest loading a few additional repositories if you want to install them. The primary OBS window manager repository is:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/windowmanagers/
where you will find newer but stable versions of the desktops plus all the tools (obmenu, obconf, etc...) You can also add the individual WM repositories if you want to install the latest svn build such as:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Enlightenment/
These are all great desktops and they have have their particular niche. If you have thought about taking them on a test-drive, I highly recommend it. Enjoy!
Wow! Great writeup, David! I'm leaving the whole thing in my reply because it's worth it, IMO. Thanks for all your work on this! -- The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 12/11/2009 02:01 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates,
e16 - Startup Applications Just another follow-up on e16 concerning the method for auto-starting apps when you start e16. This information isn't immediately apparent during the install. By default the e16 startup script (starte16) gets e16 up and running, but does not start any unnecessary programs. Instead, e16 uses three script directories to allow the user to control what gets started on 'Init', 'Start', and 'Stop'. Where scripts in: ~/.e16/Init - are run the first time X is started with e16; ~/.e16/Start - are run when e16 starts and upon e16 restart; ~/.e16/Stop - are run when e16 shuts downs. The script directories do not exist by default, you have to create them. The easiest way is to open an xterm or run command dialog and enter 'mkdir -p ~/.e16/{Init,Start,Stop}' The script directories are simply the location you place scripts you want run in each of the three instances. The scripts in the directories must be executable or will be ignored. Additionally, e16 gives you control over whether the scripts are executed in the foreground or whether they are executed and backgrounded. The script extension controls this behavior. Script names are executed in the foreground/background dependent upop whether they have a '.sh' script extension as follows: scriptname.sh - executed in the foreground; scriptname* - meaning anything else are executed in the background (no need for an &) The only form of name you can't use is '*~' These files are ignored. To fit my needs, I just wanted kmix, knemo, basket and syndaemon running so I created: ~/.e16/Start/autostart.sh with the following: --start-------- #!/bin/bash ## start either alsa, esound, or kmix to provide sound in e16 kmix ## The following apps are started at e16 startup xscreensaver & ## Disable synaptics touchpad w/i 1 second of text input to stop the # mouse from jumping when brushed with your palm while typing on a laptop. /home/david/scr/cnf/tpad ## Start knemo /usr/bin/knemo ## Start basket notepads in the systray /opt/kde/bin/basket --start-hidden exit 0 --end---------- If you have any apps that reside in the 'systray', then after you start e16, just rt-click and choose the Desktop menu -> Create Systray. You will find all the little icons in there happy as larks. (one note on kmix, you can still control volume by using the mouse-wheel when the cursor is over the systray icon, but note you do not get a percentage (100%, 90%, ....) readout, instead the sound waves in from of the speaker get bigger or smaller to distinguish the volume. [ I'll use SI to represent the kmix icon in the tray, you will see 'SI c' 'SI cC' or 'SI cCC' as the sound goes from low to high. Desktop Wallpaper Control: Many of the themes provide several options for backgrounds, but you can place any custom backgrounds you want in ~/.e16/backgrounds/ Links work fine here. So if you have a cool directory full of wallpapers you would also like to use in e16, just create links to them in your ~/.e16/backgrounds direcory. Something simple like: for i in $(ls ~/coolBkgImgDir); do ln -s pathToCoolWPDir ~/.e16/backgrounds; done and now you are ready to go. Then when you choose settings > desktops and you will have all of your custom desktops available for use. The last tip would be to copy bindings.cfg to ~/.e16 which is the file that contains the keybindings. Just copy the system-wide file from /usr/share/e16/config/bindings.cfg and that will serve as a template for adding your own or removing unwanted or conflicting shortcuts. (setting: ALT+Up Arrow for Iconify has hands down been my favorite. Windows fly of the screen and into the Iconbox just as fast as my fingers will go. You can edit the file by hand, but it makes life a whole lot easier just to use 'e16keyedit'. If it doesn't come with your release, then just grag the code from Sourceforge and it can be compiled and installed in 10 seconds. That is pretty much a short summary of all the tricks I used. The only other think I will do is bind alt+f2 to either bbrun or fbrun so I can have a hot key to a run command. At that point, I don't think I'll be able to think of anything else e16 needs :p -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On 12/12/2009 04:24 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 12/11/2009 02:01 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:
Umm... I don't know how in the heck the Fontmatrix sample text got attached to the email. Disregard, it was unintended... (glad it wasn't something important) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David C. Rankin wrote:
On 12/11/2009 02:01 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates,
e16 - Startup Applications
Hmm... Have you taken a look at... <right click> and select settings and then select Remember? Not always perfect but does work with most things, do not think it does scripts however... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkskvNwACgkQasN0sSnLmgITDACggs3nXP2cCzvmAv6kIxT86Vot diwAn10tdCyTkmwN36mQiaDheYjSX3zk =si/L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 December 2009 09:01:26 David C. Rankin wrote:
This is an excerpt from another post I wrote recently in an offlist discussion, but I thought I would pass along the general parts concerning the desktop evaluations just in case anyone else may want a little summary of what all the alternative desktops for openSuSE are and a sentence or two about each.
Thanks, David, this was very interesting to me.
* lxde (blackbox, fluxbox, icewm and openbox + some nice tools for dynamic menus (scans gnome, kde & other apps and then is smart enough cache the results so the latest apps are always available in the menu if you have menu cache installed. (must have)
Was the presence of this dynamic menu cache an interesting feature for you compared to other WMs/lightweight DEs or also compared to KDE/GNOME? I ask because KDE has had a cache here since KDE 2 (sycoca, generated by kbuildsycoca4, which it rebuilds when you edit things in kmenuedit or change file associations and it puts up a 'Rebuilding system configuration' progress dialog, and I wonder if its performance improvements are being lost by some other part of KDE4 underperforming... Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 12/15/2009 06:33 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:
Was the presence of this dynamic menu cache an interesting feature for you compared to other WMs/lightweight DEs or also compared to KDE/GNOME?
Will, yes it was and you can tell the difference immediately in the crispness of the menus. This is especially true in a lot of the lightweight desktop using xdg-menu, dmenu, wall-menu or the like. With the number of packages installed today, without a cache, you have a lot of perceptible "lag" time between clicking on the menu and the menu appearing. Anything over a 1/4 second and you really notice, you get to 1/2 and you find yourself waiting...
I ask because KDE has had a cache here since KDE 2 (sycoca, generated by kbuildsycoca4, which it rebuilds when you edit things in kmenuedit or change file associations and it puts up a 'Rebuilding system configuration' progress dialog, and I wonder if its performance improvements are being lost by some other part of KDE4 underperforming...
I have always thought they introduced the menu animations to cover-up or hide a bit of the menu read/display lag. With kde (I haven't tried this lately), I would always go disable all the menu animations and menu effects (fade-in/out, transparency, etc..) and then check the way the menus behaved. With kde3, I always found the menus were instantaneous without the effects, so I just went to a policy of setting all the animation timings to about 75% which produced a crisp but elegant menu animation without any perceived delay: slow +-------------------------|----------+ fast I have always found that KDE( 3 & 4 ) set the default timings way to slow and it did give the impression that the menus (and desktop in general) was sluggish. There is no question about it, kde4 feels like a behemoth compared to kde3 and I suspect a lot of it is due to a lack of attention to the compounding effects the many different animations/fades/etc.. have on each other. At its core, kde4 should just zip along as well as, or better than, kde3 did, but if you add .02 of shade, .03 of expand, .04 of gradient, etc... 8 times over for each window, menu and entry, the delays really starts to add up. I don't know what kind of profiling has been done just looking into the menu generation and menu animation timings, but I suspect with all of the rush to get everything working, not much attention has been paid to the technical polish of the interface. Yet another area for you to add your name to the KDE historical record for another significant improvement to the desktop ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 10:09 -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 12/15/2009 06:33 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:
Was the presence of this dynamic menu cache an interesting feature for you compared to other WMs/lightweight DEs or also compared to KDE/GNOME?
Will, yes it was and you can tell the difference immediately in the crispness of the menus. This is especially true in a lot of the lightweight desktop using xdg-menu, dmenu, wall-menu or the like. With the number of packages installed today, without a cache, you have a lot of perceptible "lag" time between clicking on the menu and the menu appearing. Anything over a 1/4 second and you really notice, you get to 1/2 and you find yourself waiting...
I have a generous number of packages installed on my openSUSE system, and I have always felt that their presence in the KDE menu is incredibly incomplete (not to mention poorly organized). I would guess that maybe 5% of the GUI apps are in the menu system. Since it is so sparse, it is amazing that it is also so slow. One would expect a cache to result in some speed improvement. I would hate to think what it might be like if (1) there was no cache and (2) all installed GUI apps were actually present. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 15 December 2009 17:17:25 Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 10:09 -0600, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 12/15/2009 06:33 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:
Was the presence of this dynamic menu cache an interesting feature for you compared to other WMs/lightweight DEs or also compared to KDE/GNOME?
Will, yes it was and you can tell the difference immediately in the crispness of the menus. This is especially true in a lot of the lightweight desktop using xdg-menu, dmenu, wall-menu or the like. With the number of packages installed today, without a cache, you have a lot of perceptible "lag" time between clicking on the menu and the menu appearing. Anything over a 1/4 second and you really notice, you get to 1/2 and you find yourself waiting...
I have a generous number of packages installed on my openSUSE system, and I have always felt that their presence in the KDE menu is incredibly incomplete (not to mention poorly organized). I would guess that maybe 5% of the GUI apps are in the menu system.
This is broadly how the menu is put together: 1) The freedesktop.org menu spec [1] defines the tree of menu folders (as categories), and a set of directories to search for desktop files. 2) Each package contains desktop files for each app/menu entry. These contain a list of categories. 3) The desktop files are combined into the tree by matching categories. 4) OnlyShowIn=<desktopname> fields in the desktop files prevent desktop specific apps from appearing in other desktops 5) The KDE menus trim folders containing only one entry by merging the entry back into the parent menu Example: /-Graphics |-Image viewers | |-Digikam | |-Gwenview |-Drawing |-Kolourpaint would become: /-Graphics |-Image viewers | |-Digikam | |-Gwenview |-Kolourpaint So if apps are missing from the menu, it either means: 1) No desktop file is installed 2) The categories in the desktop file do not match up with those defined in the menu 3) OnlyShowIn prevents the app being shown 4) A bug in the menu prevents the app being shown 1) is easy to check, 2) is checked at package build time by a brp script (the build fails) but perhaps the category match is putting the app in an unexpected place. 4) would be very interesting. You can see what KDE thinks the populated menu tree should look like with "kbuildsycoca4 --menutest", and compare it with the actual menu. I'm sure performance improvements are also possible. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
David C. Rankin -
G T Smith -
JB2 -
Roger Oberholtzer -
Will Stephenson