[opensuse] Gotta Love that VM Ware!

Kai Ponte

22 Jun 2007 22 Jun '07

17:01

Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls. In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response. I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE. http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/67 ...and they call me a pointy-haird boss...ha! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Alexey Eremenko

22 Jun 22 Jun

17:22

On 6/22/07, Kai Ponte wrote:

...

Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

Alternatively, you could try VirtualBox. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

17:30

On Friday 22 June 2007 10:22, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

On 6/22/07, Kai Ponte wrote:

...
Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

Alternatively, you could try VirtualBox.

He's happy with what he's got. Why mess with it? VMware is very good, very sound, very mature, very well supported. I doubt that can yet be said of VirtualBox.

...

-Alexey Eremenko "Technologov"

RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

17:50

On Fri, June 22, 2007 10:30 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Friday 22 June 2007 10:22, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
On 6/22/07, Kai Ponte wrote:

...
Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

Alternatively, you could try VirtualBox.

He's happy with what he's got. Why mess with it? VMware is very good, very sound, very mature, very well supported. I doubt that can yet be said of VirtualBox.

Agreed. I spent hours setting up my virtual machine the way I want it. I don't plan to scrap it and start over. However, it is nice to see that there are free competitors. I plan to buy a new home PC this year for my wife. I'll install SUSE, of course. I plan for her to have a virtual machine. Maybe I'll use VirtualBox for it to run XP/2K apps. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

S Glasoe

24 Jun 24 Jun

00:28

On Friday June 22 2007 12:50:05 pm Kai Ponte wrote:

...

On Fri, June 22, 2007 10:30 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
On Friday 22 June 2007 10:22, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
On 6/22/07, Kai Ponte wrote:

...
Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a

1400x1050

...
resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

Alternatively, you could try VirtualBox.

He's happy with what he's got. Why mess with it? VMware is very good, very sound, very mature, very well supported. I doubt that can yet be said of VirtualBox.

Agreed. I spent hours setting up my virtual machine the way I want it. I don't plan to scrap it and start over.

However, it is nice to see that there are free competitors. I plan to buy a new home PC this year for my wife. I'll install SUSE, of course. I plan for her to have a virtual machine. Maybe I'll use VirtualBox for it to run XP/2K apps.

Do like I did and install both on the same hardware. VirtualBox seems to be a lighter weight option in that it runs very well on <1GHz processors and <512MB RAM. VirtualBox doesn't have all the bells and whistles of VMware especially in the network setup. It does seem to me on my hardware to be quicker though; faster to load, faster to shutdown, faster running. Same application load, same updates, same virtual disk size, same memory size usage, etc. I have a free copy of VMware 5.5 so the cost isn't an issue. I am not doing any stress testing other than browser testing of websites, tech support of customers Windows problems, etc. -- Stan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

00:53

On Saturday 23 June 2007 17:28, S Glasoe wrote:

...

On Friday June 22 2007 12:50:05 pm Kai Ponte wrote:

...
On Fri, June 22, 2007 10:30 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
On Friday 22 June 2007 10:22, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...

Alternatively, you could try VirtualBox.

He's happy with what he's got. Why mess with it? VMware is very good, very sound, very mature, very well supported. I doubt that can yet be said of VirtualBox.

Agreed. I spent hours setting up my virtual machine the way I want it. I don't plan to scrap it and start over.

...

Do like I did and install both on the same hardware. VirtualBox seems to be a lighter weight option in that it runs very well on <1GHz processors and <512MB RAM. VirtualBox doesn't have all the bells and whistles of VMware especially in the network setup. It does seem to me on my hardware to be quicker though; faster to load, faster to shutdown, faster running. Same application load, same updates, same virtual disk size, same memory size usage, etc. I have a free copy of VMware 5.5 so the cost isn't an issue.

How well does VirtualBox integerate the clipboard between the host and guest environments? I think of all the functions of the VMware Tools, clipboard integration is what I use most. Second would probably be file sharing (i.e., the guest, at least Windows, can see select portions of the host file system as Windows / CIFS shares). And, of course, I make ubiquitous use of the virtualized network connections. I do like knowing that my Windows is behind a NAT, at least.

...

... Stan

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

S Glasoe

13:27

On Saturday June 23 2007 7:53:45 pm Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

How well does VirtualBox integerate the clipboard between the host and guest environments? I think of all the functions of the VMware Tools, clipboard integration is what I use most. Second would probably be file sharing (i.e., the guest, at least Windows, can see select portions of the host file system as Windows / CIFS shares). And, of course, I make ubiquitous use of the virtualized network connections. I do like knowing that my Windows is behind a NAT, at least.

Randall Schulz

File sharing is not a problem. Networking in general isn't as mature as VMware; not as easy to setup, not as many options, NAT works. I have to go back and double check the clipboard later this evening. More later... -- Stan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

S Glasoe

26 Jun 26 Jun

17:23

On Sunday June 24 2007 8:27:39 am S Glasoe wrote:

...

On Saturday June 23 2007 7:53:45 pm Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
How well does VirtualBox integerate the clipboard between the host and guest environments? I think of all the functions of the VMware Tools, clipboard integration is what I use most. Second would probably be file sharing (i.e., the guest, at least Windows, can see select portions of the host file system as Windows / CIFS shares). And, of course, I make ubiquitous use of the virtualized network connections. I do like knowing that my Windows is behind a NAT, at least.

Randall Schulz

File sharing is not a problem. Networking in general isn't as mature as VMware; not as easy to setup, not as many options, NAT works.

I have to go back and double check the clipboard later this evening.

More later...

The latest version 1.40 of VirtualBox has clipboard support; host->guest only, guest->host only or bi-directional. NAT works out of the box. -- Stan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Gordon Keehn

17:58

S Glasoe wrote:

...

On Sunday June 24 2007 8:27:39 am S Glasoe wrote:

...
On Saturday June 23 2007 7:53:45 pm Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
How well does VirtualBox integerate the clipboard between the host and guest environments? I think of all the functions of the VMware Tools, clipboard integration is what I use most. Second would probably be file sharing (i.e., the guest, at least Windows, can see select portions of the host file system as Windows / CIFS shares). And, of course, I make ubiquitous use of the virtualized network connections. I do like knowing that my Windows is behind a NAT, at least.

Randall Schulz

File sharing is not a problem. Networking in general isn't as mature as VMware; not as easy to setup, not as many options, NAT works.

I have to go back and double check the clipboard later this evening.

More later...

The latest version 1.40 of VirtualBox has clipboard support; host->guest only, guest->host only or bi-directional.

NAT works out of the box.

And why, exactly, should I love VM Ware? I've tried three times to install 10.2 in a VMware virtual box under WinXP. Each time everything has worked fine UNTIL vmware-tools is installed and the vmware-config-tools.pl script is executed. On every boot after that, initialization proceeds to the point that the vmware interface code starts to run, and the virtual machine closes with extreme prejudice. BTW, this is with VMware Server 1.0.3. I guess you get what you pay for. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen

18:50

On Tuesday 26 June 2007, Gordon Keehn wrote:

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On every boot after that, initialization proceeds to the point that the vmware interface code starts to run, and the virtual machine closes with extreme prejudice. BTW, this is with VMware Server 1.0.3. I guess you get what you pay for.

Or in this case, you also get what you DON'T pay for. That exact scenario works for me. Have you tried looking in the Vmware Forums? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Randall R Schulz

20:41

On Tuesday 26 June 2007 11:50, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Tuesday 26 June 2007, Gordon Keehn wrote:

...
On every boot after that, initialization proceeds to the point that the vmware interface code starts to run, and the virtual machine closes with extreme prejudice. BTW, this is with VMware Server 1.0.3. I guess you get what you pay for.

Or in this case, you also get what you DON'T pay for. That exact scenario works for me. Have you tried looking in the Vmware Forums?

VMware has proved itself to be very high-quality software. And as John says, their forums are very helpful. It's very likely someone else has encountered the problem or something similar you are and can help you around it. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

24 Jun 24 Jun

21:55

On Saturday 23 June 2007 17:53, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

...

How well does VirtualBox integerate the clipboard between the host and guest environments? I think of all the functions of the VMware Tools, clipboard integration is what I use most. Second would probably be file sharing (i.e., the guest, at least Windows, can see select portions of the host file system as Windows / CIFS shares). And, of course, I make ubiquitous use of the virtualized network connections. I do like knowing that my Windows is behind a NAT, at least.

Actually, I don't think the host-to-guest file sharing is done via SMB / CIFS. When I view the Properties dialog in my current VMware setup, it shows the type as "Network Drive" and the "File System:" as "HGFS" (which I've never seen or heard of elsewhere, I don't think). As far as I can tell, this is a VMware-proprietary file system used solely for the purpose of host-to-guest file sharing.

...

...
... Stan

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Peter Van Lone

22:12

On 6/24/07, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Actually, I don't think the host-to-guest file sharing is done via SMB / CIFS. When I view the Properties dialog in my current VMware setup, it shows the type as "Network Drive" and the "File System:" as "HGFS" (which I've never seen or heard of elsewhere, I don't think). As far as I can tell, this is a VMware-proprietary file system used solely for the purpose of host-to-guest file sharing.

have you done anything special (other than install vmware tools and enable the option) to get the shared folder thing to work? I have never seen the shared folder inside a windows VM ... I've always just assumed that this might be "one of those things" that doesn't work with a linux host ... Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

22:26

On Sunday 24 June 2007 15:12, Peter Van Lone wrote:

...

On 6/24/07, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
Actually, I don't think the host-to-guest file sharing is done via SMB / CIFS. When I view the Properties dialog in my current VMware setup, it shows the type as "Network Drive" and the "File System:" as "HGFS" (which I've never seen or heard of elsewhere, I don't think). As far as I can tell, this is a VMware-proprietary file system used solely for the purpose of host-to-guest file sharing.

have you done anything special (other than install vmware tools and enable the option) to get the shared folder thing to work?

Not that I recall. I've had this setup in place for quite a while, now. Of course, you have to configure the shared folders in the VM configuration dialog _and_ enable them. But beyond just doing those ordinary things, there's nothing special I recall having to do.

...

I have never seen the shared folder inside a windows VM ... I've always just assumed that this might be "one of those things" that doesn't work with a linux host ...

No, it works fine for me. This is on a SuSE Linux 10.0 release. If I'm not mistaken, this feature is not available in VMware Server (the $free version). I have VMware Workstation (currently running version 5—I'm waiting for a time to upgrade to version 6 that will maximize the negative impact of any issues that might arise during the upgrade; it's something I have a knack for...).

...

Peter

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Peter Van Lone

22:37

On 6/24/07, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Not that I recall. I've had this setup in place for quite a while, now. Of course, you have to configure the shared folders in the VM configuration dialog _and_ enable them. But beyond just doing those ordinary things, there's nothing special I recall having to do.

hmm ... so, when you run windows explorer, does it appear as a removable drive? Or, as another hard disk? Or, as a network resource?

...

No, it works fine for me. This is on a SuSE Linux 10.0 release. If I'm not mistaken, this feature is not available in VMware Server (the $free version). I have VMware Workstation (currently running version 5—I'm waiting for a time to upgrade to version 6 that will maximize the negative impact of any issues that might arise during the upgrade; it's something I have a knack for...).

I've run vmware workstation 5.x, 5.5 and now 6.x on everything from suse 10 to SLED 10 -- Sure wish I could get this to work ... as it is, each time I need to do something with a windows tool, I then have to store the file in the vm. Drag and drop and copy/paste of the files works ... but it seems ridiculous to have to have 2 versions, or to have to constantly copy back and forth to maintain the correct version in both places ... Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

23:04

On Sunday 24 June 2007 15:37, Peter Van Lone wrote:

...

On 6/24/07, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...
Not that I recall. I've had this setup in place for quite a while, now. Of course, you have to configure the shared folders in the VM configuration dialog _and_ enable them. But beyond just doing those ordinary things, there's nothing special I recall having to do.

hmm ... so, when you run windows explorer, does it appear as a removable drive? Or, as another hard disk? Or, as a network resource?

As I mentioned, it's reported as Network Drive whose file system is HGFS. And yes, it's there in Windows Explorer as well as in the usual variety of Open and Save dialogs within applications.

...

...
No, it works fine for me. This is on a SuSE Linux 10.0 release. If I'm not mistaken, this feature is not available in VMware Server (the $free version). ...

I've run vmware workstation 5.x, 5.5 and now 6.x on everything from suse 10 to SLED 10 --

Sure wish I could get this to work ... as it is, each time I need to do something with a windows tool, I then have to store the file in the vm. Drag and drop and copy/paste of the files works ... but it seems ridiculous to have to have 2 versions, or to have to constantly copy back and forth to maintain the correct version in both places ...

Perhaps it something about how you installed or configured VMware? I know the configuration Perl script asks you a lot of questions. One of them might bear on the availability of the shared folders function. If you've been carrying forward your earlier configurations, it might be something you did long ago.

...

Peter

Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Peter Van Lone

23:58

On 6/24/07, Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

Perhaps it something about how you installed or configured VMware? I know the configuration Perl script asks you a lot of questions. One of them might bear on the availability of the shared folders function. If you've been carrying forward your earlier configurations, it might be something you did long ago.

well your comments caused me to pursue this again, after not having looked into it for some time. I found a post on the vmware forum, that suggested that you may need to remove and re-add the vmware tools application on a guest running on an Ubuntu host. So ... I did that, as it had been several versions of vmware workstation since I first installed the tools in this guest. Voila! I guess I sometimes forget that "remove and re-install" is the applications analogue of "reboot" in windows world. Thnx for the kick in the butt that caused me to actually try again, Randall! P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Creighton

22 Jun 22 Jun

17:54

Kai Ponte wrote:

...

Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I think you did it the smart way, you installed SUSE and used VMWare as 'rubber gloves' to run a Windoze OS within the protection of Linux :)

...

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

...actually, UNIX predates Win by quite a bit and as Linux is a 'clone' of *NIX, I would say you are running the Legacy as the host and emulating a Johnny-come-lately-rip-off-of-OS/2 using a great pair of a software equivalent of rubber gloves stamped 'VMWare' to prevent contamination....a very smart way to go....one I whole heartedly agree with. :)

...

http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/67

Very cool! Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

18:12

On Fri, June 22, 2007 10:54 am, Richard Creighton wrote:

...

Kai Ponte wrote:

...
Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I think you did it the smart way, you installed SUSE and used VMWare as 'rubber gloves' to run a Windoze OS within the protection of Linux :)

...
I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

....actually, UNIX predates Win by quite a bit and as Linux is a 'clone' of *NIX,

IIRC, Windows NT is a better unix than unix. :P

...

I would say you are running the Legacy as the host and emulating a Johnny-come-lately-rip-off-of-OS/2 using a great pair of a software equivalent of rubber gloves stamped 'VMWare' to prevent contamination....a very smart way to go....one I whole heartedly agree with. :)

LOL! Actually I refer to the old closed-source install only from our CD's mentality type of OS. Heck, I'm surprised Windows doesn't hand out dongles with their software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Richard Creighton

18:44

Kai Ponte wrote:

...

<snip>

...
I would say you are running the Legacy as the host and emulating a Johnny-come-lately-rip-off-of-OS/2 using a great pair of a software equivalent of rubber gloves stamped 'VMWare' to prevent contamination....a very smart way to go....one I whole heartedly agree with. :)

LOL!

Actually I refer to the old closed-source install only from our CD's mentality type of OS. Heck, I'm surprised Windows doesn't hand out dongles with their software.

SHHHHHH! Don't give them any ideas! That would be just another extra cost option required to run their latest and greatest. So far, *none* of my Windoze friends have successfully installed Vista without hardware upgrades. All had been running XP with no problems but were convinced they 'needed' Vista. One had a 4 month old computer and it failed to upgrade. Linux rules! What I love about Linux: It runs VMWare that can pretend to be a computer running Vista :) ...and does it while doing real work in the background to boot! :) Richard

...

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Eberhard Roloff

23 Jun 23 Jun

09:26

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

Kai Ponte wrote:

...

Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

While this surely is impressive, on a more general note, I doubt that it the best way to run windows. After all it requires much more in regard to hardware resources than a native windows would need. You still cannot do anything that windows can do within an emulator. AND, it is quite costly to buy a windows license, and additional windows software licenses for any linux computer that is standing around, just to get in the end, what you had before: A computer that perfectly runs your main windows application(s). ;-))

...

http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/67

...and they call me a pointy-haird boss...ha!

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

25 Jun 25 Jun

14:55

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

On Sat, June 23, 2007 2:26 am, Eberhard Roloff wrote:

...

Kai Ponte wrote:

...
Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

While this surely is impressive,

on a more general note, I doubt that it the best way to run windows.

After all it requires much more in regard to hardware resources than a native windows would need.

Actually, I don't think they've come out with a terahertz processor yet. AFAIK, that is the minimum requirement to make windows stable. :P

...

You still cannot do anything that windows can do within an emulator.

?? What can't I do? I run office 2007 (with the Excel that no longer limits me to 65500 rows), Visual Studio, Visio and my internal applications. All seem to work without a decrease in speed when compared to my P-IV 3.4 GHz machine sitting right next to the laptop.

...

AND, it is quite costly to buy a windows license, and additional windows software licenses for any linux computer that is standing around, just to get in the end, what you had before:

A computer that perfectly runs your main windows application(s). ;-))

Well, cost is relative. I reused an XP licence for this purpose. I had bought my older laptop (SUSE-only but now DOA) with XP and I'm using that licence. My current laptop came with Vista, which was promply removed. I'm sure I could load Vista under XP as well, but, why? Of course, there's always piratebay if you really need something cheap. Not that I'd ever encourage anyone to do such a thing. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Eberhard Roloff

27 Jun 27 Jun

11:24

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

Kai Ponte wrote: [...]

...

...
on a more general note, I doubt that it the best way to run windows.

After all it requires much more in regard to hardware resources than a native windows would need.

Actually, I don't think they've come out with a terahertz processor yet. AFAIK, that is the minimum requirement to make windows stable. :P

...
You still cannot do anything that windows can do within an emulator.

?? What can't I do? I run office 2007 (with the Excel that no longer limits me to 65500 rows), Visual Studio, Visio and my internal applications. All seem to work without a decrease in speed when compared to my P-IV 3.4 GHz machine sitting right next to the laptop.

So the performance is ok, but either you do not need more performance than vmware provides or you will get more performance when you run your windows "natively" on your hardware. To find out, try some windows games. Furthermore you cannot do isdn connections, usb is said to be lousy/slowly, 3D Acceleration is not useable and more. Again, vmware is great and you can work with it all day long, but it surely lacks something against running windows natively.

...

...
AND, it is quite costly to buy a windows license, and additional windows software licenses for any linux computer that is standing around, just to get in the end, what you had before:

A computer that perfectly runs your main windows application(s). ;-))

Well, cost is relative. I reused an XP licence for this purpose. I had bought my older laptop (SUSE-only but now DOA) with XP and I'm using that licence. My current laptop came with Vista, which was promply removed. I'm sure I could load Vista under XP as well, but, why?

ok, when you are reusing your license, then it did not cost you anything. But can you say that you save on windows licenses by using Linux? ;-))))

...

Of course, there's always piratebay if you really need something cheap. Not that I'd ever encourage anyone to do such a thing.

Sure, but this is not a serious option imho, especially not for business purposes. regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

13:43

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

On Wednesday 27 June 2007 04:24, Eberhard Roloff wrote:

...

Kai Ponte wrote: [...]

...
...

?? What can't I do? I run office 2007 (with the Excel that no longer limits me to 65500 rows), Visual Studio, Visio and my internal applications. All seem to work without a decrease in speed when compared to my P-IV 3.4 GHz machine sitting right next to the laptop.

So the performance is ok, but either you do not need more performance than vmware provides or you will get more performance when you run your windows "natively" on your hardware. To find out, try some windows games. Furthermore you cannot do isdn connections, usb is said to be lousy/slowly, 3D Acceleration is not useable and more. Again, vmware is great and you can work with it all day long, but it surely lacks something against running windows natively.

To be honest, I think if you look at the VMware site, their emphasis (and, apparently, the bulk of their considerable revenue) is on "enterprise" applications—i.e., server virtualization in a large data center environment (*). Interactive / workstation use is not, I don't think, their primary target. They do a pretty good job of it, and overhead is not high, but as you point out with your point about games, they don't emulate high-end graphics hardware. I think it's just not a priority for their primary business cases. I think for a large chunk of workstation users (including VMware Workstation and Server) running Windows as a guest under a Linux host, the point is that we cannot make do without Windows, but the bulk of our computing is done in Linux. For this scenario, VMware is just the ticket and frees one from either dual booting (a horrible tradeoff) or having multiple workstations (much more expensive than a simple OEM Windows license for almost all hardware). (*) I know Amazon.com began using Xen about a year ago and it proved very popular when it came time to provisioning for many of the subsets of some team's services. The popularity came largely because of the cost effectiveness of sharing a given machine among many independent OS instances that would otherwise require separate computers.

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regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

16:10

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

On Wed, June 27, 2007 4:24 am, Eberhard Roloff wrote:

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Kai Ponte wrote: [...]

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on a more general note, I doubt that it the best way to run windows.

After all it requires much more in regard to hardware resources than a native windows would need.

Actually, I don't think they've come out with a terahertz processor yet. AFAIK, that is the minimum requirement to make windows stable. :P

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You still cannot do anything that windows can do within an emulator.

?? What can't I do? I run office 2007 (with the Excel that no longer limits me to 65500 rows), Visual Studio, Visio and my internal applications. All seem to work without a decrease in speed when compared to my P-IV 3.4 GHz machine sitting right next to the laptop.

So the performance is ok, but either you do not need more performance than vmware provides or you will get more performance when you run your windows "natively" on your hardware.

Yes, I imagine so. However, with Windows, there is no performance. It is always slow - at least in any version since Win2K. After all, XP and it's lack of performance is why I decided to dive head first into Linux.

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To find out, try some windows games.

They seem to play fine. I loaded Hearts and Freecell. I know that I have my Z-Machine emulator and NESTicle somewhere. Maybe I'll load them up and see how they do.

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Furthermore you cannot do isdn connections,

??? People still have ISDN? I thought that was depricated.

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usb is said to be lousy/slowly,

No worse than SuSE 9.3 > 10.0. I just tried.

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3D Acceleration is not useable and more. Again, vmware is great and you can work with it all day long, but it surely lacks something against running windows natively.

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AND, it is quite costly to buy a windows license, and additional windows software licenses for any linux computer that is standing around, just to get in the end, what you had before:

A computer that perfectly runs your main windows application(s). ;-))

Well, no - you end up with a computer running Linux. This is vastly more secure and reliable. You then have an emulator running Windows for those times which are needed. Also, I can (and have) backup my VMWare session for future use. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz

16:21

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

On Wednesday 27 June 2007 09:10, Kai Ponte wrote:

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On Wed, June 27, 2007 4:24 am, Eberhard Roloff wrote:

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To find out, try some windows games.

They seem to play fine. I loaded Hearts and Freecell. I know that I have my Z-Machine emulator and NESTicle somewhere. Maybe I'll load them up and see how they do.

I'm guessing he meant 3D video games, not simple board or card games. By the way, the solitaire applications for Linux are much better than the Freecell implementation included with Windows.

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Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kai Ponte

16:37

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

On Wed, June 27, 2007 9:21 am, Randall R Schulz wrote:

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On Wednesday 27 June 2007 09:10, Kai Ponte wrote:

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On Wed, June 27, 2007 4:24 am, Eberhard Roloff wrote:

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...

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To find out, try some windows games.

They seem to play fine. I loaded Hearts and Freecell. I know that I have my Z-Machine emulator and NESTicle somewhere. Maybe I'll load them up and see how they do.

I'm guessing he meant 3D video games, not simple board or card games.

Oh, okay. I had forgotten about those. I had tried a few some time back and found them infinitely boring, with the exception of Wesnoth. That is a good 3d game. Haven't tried it under VMWare though.

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By the way, the solitaire applications for Linux are much better than the Freecell implementation included with Windows.

Heh - yes. Patience and AisleRiot are additive sorts. I do wish they had a good Texas Hold 'Em game on SUSE. Have yet to be able to locate one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Eberhard Roloff

17:20

New subject: [opensuse] Re: Gotta Love that VM Ware!

Kai Ponte wrote: [vmware works great for anything that is busineee related...] yes, it does and it does it remarkably well. Still if you had anything in Linux and consequently could live solely on Linux without using a windows vm, you would get a cost benefit. When using Windows in a VM, you do not save anything moneywise, except admin work like backups and vm relocations, which are by far easier under vmware. And I do not buy that windows does not cost anything, because "it is already there". In fact, windows costs all the time and if it would be despensible, cost would be lower.

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Furthermore you cannot do isdn connections,

??? People still have ISDN? I thought that was depricated.

Well, not here in Germany. And I would love to install a Linux based Faxserver under vmware. OK, this is not windows in vmware, but ISDN still does not work in VMWARE, unrelated to the OS that you use ;-))

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usb is said to be lousy/slowly,

No worse than SuSE 9.3 > 10.0. I just tried.

Agreed and it is getting better, both in SuSE and vmware. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Daniel Feiglin

23 Jun 23 Jun

20:29

Kai Ponte wrote:

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Just an update on my Vista laptop that I wanted to switch over to SUSE. One of the things I needed it to do was run our main application, written in .net but requiring many Windows-based controls.

In any case, I've now gotten VMWare to run perfectly in a 1400x1050 resolution with the application running just fine inside. I have no problems with speed or response.

I'd say this is the best of both worlds - a legacy OS like Windows running inside SUSE.

http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/67

...and they call me a pointy-haird boss...ha!

I also use VMware WS 6 to run a Win 2K client - and it all works fine. Since this might be a bit OT, could you tell me perhaps off-list, if you managed to set up the supplied virtual printer (I could not; I just turned Win 2K it into a CUPS network client) and did you manage to "talk" to one or more serial ports ( I have not succeeded so far)?

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participants (10)

Alexey Eremenko
Daniel Feiglin
Eberhard Roloff
Gordon Keehn
John Andersen
Kai Ponte
Peter Van Lone
Randall R Schulz
Richard Creighton
S Glasoe