[opensuse] What is the best ligh-weight window manager?
I use OpenSuse 11.3, KDE 4.4.4 KDE is sensible slow. Games run under wine are very much slow. I tried to login using IceWM and my game was running ok. KDE problem is not only with games, Eclipse is also slow for me. I'd like to hear some advices what ligh-weight manager better to use. IceWM, XFCE, something else? Thanks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:38 AM, arygroup@gmail.com <arygroup@gmail.com> wrote:
I use OpenSuse 11.3, KDE 4.4.4
KDE is sensible slow. Games run under wine are very much slow. I tried to login using IceWM and my game was running ok.
KDE problem is not only with games, Eclipse is also slow for me.
I'd like to hear some advices what ligh-weight manager better to use. IceWM, XFCE, something else?
Thanks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
There are two that I like. XFce4 is very nice, has a bit of mac feel to it. The last one is LXDE, very nice, doesn't use a lot of memory. Please use the link below where you can download either XFCE or LXDE live CD and try them out. -- ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- en.opensuse.org/User:Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Chuck, what's your hardware configuration? Can you run 'top' and 'powertop' to see where the effort is going? -- The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 31/08/10 15:31, Anton Aylward wrote:
Chuck, what's your hardware configuration? Can you run 'top' and 'powertop' to see where the effort is going?
I think it was to me. Mostly XORG and the game itself. But it seems sometimes there is no high CPU usage, but the comp is slow. CPU Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz 3 000,39 Mz Cores: 2 RAM 2,0 Gb OS: Linux 2.6.34-12-default x86_64 openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) KDE: 4.4.4 (KDE 4.4.4) "release 2" Vidoe nVidia Corporation GeForce 9500 GT 2D driver: nvidia 3D driver: NVIDIA 256.35 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
arygroup@gmail.com said the following on 08/31/2010 08:52 AM:
On 31/08/10 15:31, Anton Aylward wrote:
Chuck, what's your hardware configuration? Can you run 'top' and 'powertop' to see where the effort is going?
I think it was to me.
Mostly XORG and the game itself. But it seems sometimes there is no high CPU usage, but the comp is slow.
CPU Power and memory seem adequate. "top" will also show you memory and swap usage and your load factor. You shouldn't be swapping :-) That's once source of high latency. Lot of interrupts are another - 'powertop' will show that. Heavy swapping or paging will result in lots of disk activity. There are many monitors for that. KDE4 has oodles of applets that are monitors. You can monitor io with a number of tools like "iostat -d", blkiomon, "sar -d" and "vmstat -D", and control which programs have io priority with 'ionice'. You many need to do "zypper install sysstat" to have those available. What is suspicious is that the lightweight DMs let your game run OK. This - sort-of - points towards memory, but then I run KDE4.5 on a (slightly slower) laptop with (slightly) less memory and while not games and wine I do have a lot of apps open, including the memory-hungry Firefox with, as I've mentioned before, numerous windows and many tabs. Perhaps wine has an idiosyncrasy. :-/ But there are plenty of tools to "look under the hood" and see what's going on. Try out those I've mentioned and and others and let us know what you find. -- Before all else, we seek, upon our common labor as a nation, the blessings of Almighty God. Dwight D. Eisenhower -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 14:52, arygroup@gmail.com <arygroup@gmail.com> wrote:
On 31/08/10 15:31, Anton Aylward wrote:
Chuck, what's your hardware configuration? Can you run 'top' and 'powertop' to see where the effort is going?
I think it was to me.
Mostly XORG and the game itself. But it seems sometimes there is no high CPU usage, but the comp is slow.
CPU Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz 3 000,39 Mz Cores: 2
RAM 2,0 Gb
OS: Linux 2.6.34-12-default x86_64 openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) KDE: 4.4.4 (KDE 4.4.4) "release 2"
Vidoe nVidia Corporation GeForce 9500 GT 2D driver: nvidia 3D driver: NVIDIA 256.35
I think I'd agree with other comments here that there is something else wrong... I'm running KDE4.5.0 on an Intel Atom 1.6GHz CPU, 2GB of RAM, and an Intel 945 video card (EEE Netbook) and it's fine there. I can even run games (ok, not high demand games, but games like World of Goo) and use some desktop effects without a significant desktop performance hit. Your hardware is way beyond what I'm running on.... you should not be seeing performance issues to the point where you're needing to find a low resource DE. The DEs suggested are quite nice by the way... LXDE, XFCE... even E16 are all nice. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Anton Aylward <anton.aylward@rogers.com> wrote:
Chuck, what's your hardware configuration? Can you run 'top' and 'powertop' to see where the effort is going?
-- The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I am not having any issues. arygroup is :) -- ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- en.opensuse.org/User:Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. www.susestudio.com. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 31 August 2010 12:38:34 arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
KDE is sensible slow. Games run under wine are very much slow. I tried to login using IceWM and my game was running ok.
Are you using desktop effects? Do the wine games run faster when desktop effects are disabled (in the config dialog or using the alt-shift-f12 shortcut? Will -- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 31/08/10 15:00, Will Stephenson wrote:
Are you using desktop effects?
I think no. I can't switch to English to see the same windows' name as you (I change language to English, remove other languages, save, but when I reload system settings it's only partially in English and other languages are still there. Strange.). But as far as I remember and translate: system settings - Desktop - Enable desktop effects -- unchecked system settings - appearence - style - "advanced settings" (the last tab) - "graphical effects" is set to low resolution and low CPU usage. Do the wine games run faster when desktop
effects are disabled (in the config dialog or using the alt-shift-f12 shortcut?
Alt+shift+f12 does nothing for me. I didn't use the effects. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 31 August 2010 14:16:06 arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
On 31/08/10 15:00, Will Stephenson wrote:
Are you using desktop effects?
I think no. I can't switch to English to see the same windows' name as you (I change language to English, remove other languages, save, but when I reload system settings it's only partially in English and other languages are still there. Strange.). But as far as I remember and translate:
system settings - Desktop - Enable desktop effects -- unchecked system settings - appearence - style - "advanced settings" (the last tab) - "graphical effects" is set to low resolution and low CPU usage.
Do the wine games run faster when desktop
effects are disabled (in the config dialog or using the alt-shift-f12 shortcut?
Alt+shift+f12 does nothing for me. I didn't use the effects.
Ok, that's not it then. Good luck with the search for an alternative window manager :). Will -- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
On 31/08/10 15:00, Will Stephenson wrote:
Are you using desktop effects?
I think no.
.....
Do the wine games run faster when desktop
effects are disabled (in the config dialog or using the alt-shift-f12 shortcut?
Alt+shift+f12 does nothing for me. I didn't use the effects.
Hmm, are you havin 3d accelerated drivers? Normally, desktop effects would be 'on' unless you disabled them yourself, so it might be they were switched off because there is no native 3d support? Pit -- Dr. Peter "Pit" Suetterlin http://www.astro.su.se/~pit Institute for Solar Physics Tel.: +34 922 405 590 (Spain) P.Suetterlin@royac.iac.es +46 8 5537 8507 (Sweden) Peter.Suetterlin@astro.su.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 06/09/10 12:42, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
Hmm, are you havin 3d accelerated drivers? Normally, desktop effects would be 'on' unless you disabled them yourself, so it might be they were switched off because there is no native 3d support?
Pit
How can I check it? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/09/10 12:42, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
Hmm, are you havin 3d accelerated drivers? Normally, desktop effects would be 'on' unless you disabled them yourself, so it might be they were switched off because there is no native 3d support?
Pit
How can I check it?
Try glxinfo. It should (among others) report 'direct rendering: Yes' -- Dr. Peter "Pit" Suetterlin http://www.astro.su.se/~pit Institute for Solar Physics Tel.: +34 922 405 590 (Spain) P.Suetterlin@royac.iac.es +46 8 5537 8507 (Sweden) Peter.Suetterlin@astro.su.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 06/09/10 13:30, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/09/10 12:42, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
Hmm, are you havin 3d accelerated drivers? Normally, desktop effects would be 'on' unless you disabled them yourself, so it might be they were switched off because there is no native 3d support?
Pit
How can I check it?
Try glxinfo. It should (among others) report 'direct rendering: Yes'
gruz@gruz:~> glxinfo | grep "rendering" direct rendering: Yes But I changed my motherboard yesterday. Not videocard. And I tried my game in KDE yesterday. Not as fast as at windows, but it's possible to play. No I'm not sure if it's really faster it IceWM that at KDE. Need more tests at this motherboard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 06 September 2010 05:41:29 arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
No I'm not sure if it's really faster it IceWM that at KDE. Need more tests at this motherboard.
In general lightweight window manager will help only under limited circumstances: * Your graphic card is old, so it is slow with desktop effects and other parts of theme that is used in KDE or GNOME; lightweight theme with square-ish window decorations, flat colors (no color gradients), no background images, no effects can help. * Your CPU can't compensate graphic card lack of features. * You have little RAM. Default installation of 11.3 with KDE4 on older 32 bit computer takes only 170MB to run. There is not much that you can save with smaller window manager. You will have to turn off all services (demons) that are not essential, which is pretty much openSUSE default. * You don't need many background services offered with modern desktop environments (DE) that we take for granted, but also modern applications expect to find. * Your applications are lightweight too; anything that is modern and does complex tasks will negate any advantage of small window manager. Tens of megabytes of Firefox or OpenOffice.org still have to be loaded with all libraries and window manager can't speed that up. Besides, if you not use desktop environment (DE) every application will load its libraries and you can end up with more memory consumption then with DE. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 06/09/10 17:08, Rajko M. wrote: Thanks for explanation -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 06 September 2010 16:08:45 Rajko M. wrote:
On Monday 06 September 2010 05:41:29 arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
No I'm not sure if it's really faster it IceWM that at KDE. Need more tests at this motherboard.
In general lightweight window manager will help only under limited circumstances: * Your graphic card is old, so it is slow with desktop effects and other parts of theme that is used in KDE or GNOME; lightweight theme with square-ish window decorations, flat colors (no color gradients), no background images, no effects can help. * Your CPU can't compensate graphic card lack of features. * You have little RAM. Default installation of 11.3 with KDE4 on older 32 bit computer takes only 170MB to run. There is not much that you can save with smaller window manager. You will have to turn off all services (demons) that are not essential, which is pretty much openSUSE default. * You don't need many background services offered with modern desktop environments (DE) that we take for granted, but also modern applications expect to find. * Your applications are lightweight too; anything that is modern and does complex tasks will negate any advantage of small window manager. Tens of megabytes of Firefox or OpenOffice.org still have to be loaded with all libraries and window manager can't speed that up. Besides, if you not use desktop environment (DE) every application will load its libraries and you can end up with more memory consumption then with DE.
Great explanation! Will -- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, September 06, 2010 03:20:02 pm arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
How can I check it?
system settings -> workspace appearance & behavior -> desktop effects there's a checkbox right at the top for dis/enabling all effects. if that's unchecked, your effects are off, obviously. if your driver doesn't support effects, it'll change back to off when you try to enable it. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 06/09/10 13:38, phanisvara das wrote:
On Monday, September 06, 2010 03:20:02 pm arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
How can I check it?
system settings -> workspace appearance & behavior -> desktop effects
there's a checkbox right at the top for dis/enabling all effects. if that's unchecked, your effects are off, obviously. if your driver doesn't support effects, it'll change back to off when you try to enable it.
-- phani.
It works ok. I have desktop effects -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2010-08-31 at 13:38 +0300, arygroup@gmail.com wrote:
I use OpenSuse 11.3, KDE 4.4.4 KDE is sensible slow. Games run under wine are very much slow. I tried to login using IceWM and my game was running ok. KDE problem is not only with games, Eclipse is also slow for me. I'd like to hear some advices what ligh-weight manager better to use. IceWM, XFCE, something else?
Its the apps. Swapping window-mangers / DEs will, in the end, buy you little-to-nothing other than reduced functionality. Don't bother. The only time it really matters is if your GPU is crap (your computer is noticeably faster with an essentially empty screen). In that case you should seriously consider replacing your video card. -- Adam Tauno Williams <awilliam@whitemice.org> LPIC-1, Novell CLA <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com> OpenGroupware, Cyrus IMAPd, Postfix, OpenLDAP, Samba -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, I use enlightenment E17 Karl Am Dienstag, 31. August 2010, 12:38:34 schrieb arygroup@gmail.com:
I use OpenSuse 11.3, KDE 4.4.4
KDE is sensible slow. Games run under wine are very much slow. I tried to login using IceWM and my game was running ok.
KDE problem is not only with games, Eclipse is also slow for me.
I'd like to hear some advices what ligh-weight manager better to use. IceWM, XFCE, something else?
Thanks
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Anton Aylward -
arygroup＠gmail.com -
C -
Chuck Payne -
Karl Sinn -
Peter Suetterlin -
phanisvara das -
Rajko M. -
Will Stephenson