[opensuse] KDE for SLED?
Hi All, I'm asking just out of curiosity, I do not want to start flame wars and I do not have any strong feelings towards it as I'm not the target audience, as openSUSE fulfils my needs better than enterprise-grade desktop. So, from my ignorant point of view it always seemed like KDE is the strongest point of SUSE amongst all linux distributions. And then suddenly I discover that SLED offers gnome instead. Why decision was made to use gnome instead of kde? Have I missed something important or it's just some single showstoper feature that forced move to gnome (like evolution-ews probably?)? -- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-07 12:43, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
So, from my ignorant point of view it always seemed like KDE is the strongest point of SUSE amongst all linux distributions. And then suddenly I discover that SLED offers gnome instead.
Actually, the strong point of openSUSE is that it tries to be desktop agnostic, and there is no desktop default. This was the result of a peace truce after a war ;-) I suppose that SLED offers gnome as default, but also provides KDE. I can't verify this. Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I expect. It was so with gnome 2, at least. One of the main reasons was that gnome is _less_ customizable, thus workers just work instead of play with KDE >:-P - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRcwSMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UWRwCglvOGc+DyObcrwfiGz+krH6+2 /l0AnAnhFOjDRXob3pCxD5WtCrSxYmi5 =9tTe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Nov 07, 2014 at 01:55:01PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-07 12:43, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
So, from my ignorant point of view it always seemed like KDE is the strongest point of SUSE amongst all linux distributions. And then suddenly I discover that SLED offers gnome instead.
Actually, the strong point of openSUSE is that it tries to be desktop agnostic, and there is no desktop default. This was the result of a peace truce after a war ;-)
I suppose that SLED offers gnome as default, but also provides KDE. I can't verify this. Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I expect. It was so with gnome 2, at least. One of the main reasons was that gnome is _less_ customizable, thus workers just work instead of play with KDE >:-P
No, SLED 12 does not offer KDE. We are working on a seperate channel that is community driven which would be able to offer KDE (or SLE12 users could install KDE from the OBS). Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-07 14:01, Marcus Meissner wrote:
No, SLED 12 does not offer KDE.
We are working on a seperate channel that is community driven which would be able to offer KDE (or SLE12 users could install KDE from the OBS).
Curious. I understood that it was offered previously. What about, say, XFCE? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRcw0YACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Us7wCcDWeSlwN4FcLou35+wB+pyCB6 d6AAn2Ey2s/My9+odplOIBqqvleOZjUv =a98T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 07/11/14 a las 10:04, Carlos E. R. escribió:
Curious. I understood that it was offered previously. What about, say, XFCE?
Well, SLED is a GNOME based enterprise desktop, XFCE is probably also not supported..remember that every single component you add to an enterprise distribution requires support and R&D time for a *very* long time even if minimal changes are made (expensive and time consuming JFYI) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-07 15:58, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 07/11/14 a las 10:04, Carlos E. R. escribió:
Curious. I understood that it was offered previously. What about, say, XFCE?
Well, SLED is a GNOME based enterprise desktop, XFCE is probably also not supported..remember that every single component you add to an enterprise distribution requires support and R&D time for a *very* long time even if minimal changes are made (expensive and time consuming JFYI)
Well, xfce is simple, low weight, and is based on gtk, so most of the libraries are already installed. IF sled has gnome 3, xfce is a maintained alternative that feels like gnome 2 for those wanting it. Gnome 3 requires heavy graphics with proprietary drivers, xfce doesn't. Haven't you seen that "Oh no! Something went wrong" message from gnome? You need something else in order to be able to login and repair, if possible. If not xfce they will have to have something very simple for emergencies. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRdPO8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VPyQCgkprX07I9/IBbMKnTenmlhar9 WwQAn16Dr/LCVZVTkXWcws514b8AWRhU =8M8m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri 07 Nov 2014 10:43:13 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Gnome 3 requires heavy graphics with proprietary drivers, xfce doesn't. Haven't you seen that "Oh no! Something went wrong" message from gnome? You need something else in order to be able to login and repair, if possible. If not xfce they will have to have something very simple for emergencies.
Hi I run intel graphics on most of my laptops, they handle GNOME 3 with both openSUSE and SLED 12. The desktop with a nvidia card rocks along quite nice with the nouveau driver on 13.2. I have another laptop with an AMD 7430 running the radeon driver. Haven't seen an 'Oh No' message since the 3.4 days and that was mostly related to extensions... There is always twm or icewm on SLE 12. -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.28-4-default up 15 days 2:14, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.06, 0.10 CPU Intel® B840@1.9GHz | GPU Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/11/14 23:05, Malcolm wrote:
On Fri 07 Nov 2014 10:43:13 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Gnome 3 requires heavy graphics with proprietary drivers, xfce doesn't. Haven't you seen that "Oh no! Something went wrong" message from gnome? You need something else in order to be able to login and repair, if possible. If not xfce they will have to have something very simple for emergencies.
Hi I run intel graphics on most of my laptops, they handle GNOME 3 with both openSUSE and SLED 12. The desktop with a nvidia card rocks along quite nice with the nouveau driver on 13.2. I have another laptop with an AMD 7430 running the radeon driver.
Haven't seen an 'Oh No' message since the 3.4 days and that was mostly related to extensions...
That's a lot to pay for something you don't need. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri 07 Nov 2014 11:10:20 PM CST, lynn wrote:
On 07/11/14 23:05, Malcolm wrote:
On Fri 07 Nov 2014 10:43:13 PM CST, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Gnome 3 requires heavy graphics with proprietary drivers, xfce doesn't. Haven't you seen that "Oh no! Something went wrong" message from gnome? You need something else in order to be able to login and repair, if possible. If not xfce they will have to have something very simple for emergencies.
Hi I run intel graphics on most of my laptops, they handle GNOME 3 with both openSUSE and SLED 12. The desktop with a nvidia card rocks along quite nice with the nouveau driver on 13.2. I have another laptop with an AMD 7430 running the radeon driver.
Haven't seen an 'Oh No' message since the 3.4 days and that was mostly related to extensions...
That's a lot to pay for something you don't need.
The joy of having a nice stable GNOME 3 experience for use at home, my wife loves using it on her laptop. I don't even see a desktop on my SLES systems.... -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.28-4-default up 15 days 2:49, 4 users, load average: 0.55, 0.32, 0.19 CPU Intel® B840@1.9GHz | GPU Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/07/2014 01:43 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Well, xfce is simple, low weight, and is based on gtk, so most of the libraries are already installed. IF sled has gnome 3, xfce is a maintained alternative that feels like gnome 2 for those wanting it.
But probably not ready for business in my opinion. I use XFCE on OpenBSD, and as a backup desktop on some KDE installs, and even substituting some competent Office packages for the woe-begotten dregs that come with it, XFCE4 is still just barely adequate. Of course, many Gnome ex-patriots tend to think its just fine. - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlRdQ6YACgkQv7M3G5+2DLJxnACgrGHIz7BIpyKULc8lFiAFEyuG 1/oAnjVOlN0SxMfhvLtx4/9T36DKMSuK =+LTL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 07/11/14 a las 18:43, Carlos E. R. escribió:
Gnome 3 requires heavy graphics with proprietary drivers, xfce doesn't.
Nothing of that matters at all because support contracts are only intended to be used with pre-approved certified hardware. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 November 2014 13:55:01 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I expect.
I wonder if they really asked their clients, and if that was the answer - how much of that goes from ignorance. I mean, in case of gnome2 it was quite logical, kde3 was already outdated (by linux standards) and kde4 was not polished enough. But now we have opposite situation: kde4 is stable and polished, while gnome 3 is still struggling between providing classic desktop and "modern" design, former being hardly improvement over gnome2 and latter is as controversial as you can get in linux world. The only argument I can find for use of gnome3 for enterprise desktop - KDE4 will be dropped soon, MATE is still a fork, XFCE probably does not have enough human power to support it as enterprise clients would like, which leaves only gnome3 as the desktop with enough human power and longer time frame before gnome4 will arrive. -- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-11-07 16:13, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
On Friday 07 November 2014 13:55:01 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I expect.
I wonder if they really asked their clients, and if that was the answer - how much of that goes from ignorance.
I'm sure they really ask them. They pay...
I mean, in case of gnome2 it was quite logical, kde3 was already outdated (by linux standards) and kde4 was not polished enough. But now we have opposite situation: kde4 is stable and polished, while gnome 3 is still struggling between providing classic desktop and "modern" design, former being hardly improvement over gnome2 and latter is as controversial as you can get in linux world. The only argument I can find for use of gnome3 for enterprise desktop - KDE4 will be dropped soon, MATE is still a fork, XFCE probably does not have enough human power to support it as enterprise clients would like, which leaves only gnome3 as the desktop with enough human power and longer time frame before gnome4 will arrive.
I asked about XFCE because I consider Gnome 3 a bad choice. And KDE4 even worse. But I hear they use gnome 2, and that absolutely matches with what I said, if true. Conservative, stable, no niceties. Nothing to configure. Just WORK! Create profit for the employer! >:-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/07/2014 08:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-07 16:13, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
On Friday 07 November 2014 13:55:01 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I expect.
I wonder if they really asked their clients, and if that was the answer - how much of that goes from ignorance. I'm sure they really ask them. They pay...
That's not asking them. That's TELLING them. Further, we have no sales figures, and we have no alternatives. So we couldn't possibly know if the product is successful or not. And I suggest the "Hey we got a few sales" is the extent of their market research. My day job company has a lot of products still in the catalog that get virtually nill sales, but stay there because they cause no problems. We have to offer these to fill a niche, and give the appearance of a full solution but we know damn well they use our main products in conjunction with other people's solutions. The market place for Sled is people migrating companies from Windows, and Windows users are more comfortable in KDE because it does things in similar ways. I bought a sled, just to run it in a virtual machine. But I found the Gnome interface to be so debilitating I haven’t found a real use for it. Its only advantage is the Long term support, but the price is Almost the same as Windows 8.1. - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlRdGZUACgkQv7M3G5+2DLJdCwCeIGoiW3TZ3vnayg6W4YkIOcwH OckAn0ShXztFr/PW24WVHXC0QnDpo8fY =RPrQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-07 20:12, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/07/2014 08:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-07 16:13, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
On Friday 07 November 2014 13:55:01 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I expect.
I wonder if they really asked their clients, and if that was the answer - how much of that goes from ignorance. I'm sure they really ask them. They pay...
That's not asking them. That's TELLING them.
Where? Where in the above do I say they tell them them what to use? Again, as the clients pay they are entitled to tell their provider what they want, and the provider asks. I'm sure of that. Hey, other companies ask me about what I bought from them. My car company asked me a long list of detailed questions that took me hours to complete! Most companies are interested in learning what their clients want.
Further, we have no sales figures, and we have no alternatives.
/You/ do not have sales figures. /They/ have sales figures. And they don't have to tell you about them.
The market place for Sled is people migrating companies from Windows, and Windows users are more comfortable in KDE because it does things in similar ways.
But sled has had gnome for "centuries". And most of the sales are not, my guess, people like you or me buying it, but companies buying it for tons of installs in their companies. They don't have to care about "nice", but about "productivity". You do not like gnome, many people don't, and I understand that. I do like gnome 2, and many people do, and you also have to understand that. And its beauty for SLES/SLED is that you can NOT adjust it. Almost not. From the employer point of view. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Times_%28film%29 ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRdOmAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U6MQCdHK+JldaD7Gmec68WukEQrJEh t5wAnRnq/q6Tx3N3FzeWB+E006VAAwtO =HpB9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/11/14 22:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2014-11-07 20:12, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/07/2014 08:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-07 16:13, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
On Friday 07 November 2014 13:55:01 Carlos E. R. wrote:
> Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I > expect.
I wonder if they really asked their clients, and if that was the answer - how much of that goes from ignorance. I'm sure they really ask them. They pay...
That's not asking them. That's TELLING them.
Where? Where in the above do I say they tell them them what to use?
Again, as the clients pay they are entitled to tell their provider what they want, and the provider asks. I'm sure of that. Hey, other companies ask me about what I bought from them. My car company asked me a long list of detailed questions that took me hours to complete! Most companies are interested in learning what their clients want.
Further, we have no sales figures, and we have no alternatives.
/You/ do not have sales figures. /They/ have sales figures. And they don't have to tell you about them.
The market place for Sled is people migrating companies from Windows, and Windows users are more comfortable in KDE because it does things in similar ways.
But sled has had gnome for "centuries".
And most of the sales are not, my guess, people like you or me buying it, but companies buying it for tons of installs in their companies. They don't have to care about "nice", but about "productivity".
You do not like gnome, many people don't, and I understand that. I do like gnome 2, and many people do, and you also have to understand that. And its beauty for SLES/SLED is that you can NOT adjust it. Almost not. From the employer point of view.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Times_%28film%29
;-)
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
It appears that SLED 12 has GNOME 3. See this page: https://www.suse.com/releasenotes/x86_64/SUSE-SLED/12/ There you'll find the following excerpt: "SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 introduces a number of innovative changes. Here are some of the highlights: * Robustness on administrative errors and improved management capabilities with full system rollback based on btrfs as the default file system for the operating system partition and SUSE's snapper technology. * An overhaul of the installer introduces a new workflow that allows you to register your system and receive all available maintenance updates as part of the installation. * New core technologies like systemd, replacing the time honored System V based init process. * GNOME 3.10, giving users a modern desktop environment with a choice of several different look and feel options, including a special SLE Classic mode for easier migration from earlier SUSE Linux Enterprise desktop environments * For users wishing to use the full range of productivity applications of a Desktop with SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, we are now offering the SUSE Linux Enterprise Workstation Extension * Integration with the new SUSE Customer Center, SUSE's central web portal to manage Subscriptions, Entitlements, and provide access to Support." I don't know if it goes on to mention any other options. Frankly the page is so frighteningly long I'd rather go and eat some dinner than find that out. Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-07 22:42, Peter wrote:
On 07/11/14 22:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It appears that SLED 12 has GNOME 3. See this page: https://www.suse.com/releasenotes/x86_64/SUSE-SLED/12/
Interesting.
There you'll find the following excerpt:
* GNOME 3.10, giving users a modern desktop environment with a choice of several different look and feel options, including a special SLE Classic mode for easier migration from earlier SUSE Linux Enterprise desktop environments
Classic mode. Yep. Makes sense.
I don't know if it goes on to mention any other options. Frankly the page is so frighteningly long I'd rather go and eat some dinner than find that out.
LOL :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRdPZcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VMhQCeI8BXD1dyAjv+YJnxY7Osrb/m TscAnR/soJx5MRScM2Jv/BtuepeAz7Jv =UsaZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/11/14 22:46, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-07 22:42, Peter wrote:
It appears that SLED 12 has GNOME 3. See this page: https://www.suse.com/releasenotes/x86_64/SUSE-SLED/12/
Interesting.
There you'll find the following excerpt:
* GNOME 3.10, giving users a modern desktop environment with a choice of several different look and feel options, including a special SLE Classic mode for easier migration from earlier SUSE Linux Enterprise desktop environments
Classic mode. Yep. Makes sense.
Well, after dinner I did in fact locate the following section. I think it's quite interesting the choice of 3 GNOME3-based alternatives. I actually think they made the right call here, though I'm more of a KDE guy myself. They couldn't hold out several more months for a still relatively untested Plasma 5 desktop, and the idea of supporting KDE4 in 2019 seems ridiculous. Any of the other options might not even be around in five years' time. Here's the snippet: https://www.suse.com/releasenotes/x86_64/SUSE-SLED/12/#fate-317812 5.2.2 GNOME 3.10 Report Bug # We ship GNOME 3.10 with SUSE Linux Enterprise 12. GNOME on SUSE Linux Enterprise is available in three different setups, which are modifying desktop user experience: SLE Classic: this setup uses a single bottom panel, similar to GNOME desktop as available on SUSE Linux Enterprise 11. This setup is default on SUSE Linux Enterprise 12. GNOME: this is GNOME 3 upstream user experience, also sometime called "GNOME Shell". This setup might be more adequate with touchscreen. GNOME Classic: this setup uses two panels (one top panel, one bottom panel) similar to upstream GNOME 2 desktop The setup can be changed at login time, in GDM, using the gear icon in the password prompt screen. It can also be modified using YaST, systemwide. Caveats: With SLE 11 after joining a Microsoft domain, GDM displayed the available domain names as a drop-down box below the user name and password fields. This behavior has changed. With SLE 12, you must prefix the domain and the winbind separator manually to login. As soon as you click the 'Not listed?' text, GDM will display a hint such as '(e.g., domain\user)'. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/11/14 01:13, Peter wrote:
With SLE 12, you must prefix the domain and the winbind separator manually to login. As soon as you click the 'Not listed?' text, GDM will display a hint such as '(e.g., domain\user)'.
Yeah. SUSE have not a clue about Samba. They need to get someone who does. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, Nov 08, 2014 at 04:58:07AM +0100, lynn wrote:
On 08/11/14 01:13, Peter wrote:
With SLE 12, you must prefix the domain and the winbind separator manually to login. As soon as you click the 'Not listed?' text, GDM will display a hint such as '(e.g., domain\user)'.
Yeah. SUSE have not a clue about Samba. They need to get someone who does.
We actually employ several Samba developers. Just GDM active directory login is not really on top of the list. Open a bug. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/08/2014 10:25 AM, lynn wrote:
On 08/11/14 11:25, Marcus Meissner wrote:
We actually employ several Samba developers.
Why not suspend their pay until they get up to date then?
Perhaps a bit harsh. But really, if its SLED we are talking about here, you really do need AD configuration to be an option well integrated. If SUSE has that wetware in house, all the better for SLED as a drop in replacement for a rats nest of Microsoft servers. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-11-08 01:13, Peter wrote:
Well, after dinner I did in fact locate the following section. I think it's quite interesting the choice of 3 GNOME3-based alternatives.
Yes, they are interesting choices. Whether one agrees or not, dunno, but interesting.
I actually think they made the right call here, though I'm more of a KDE guy myself. They couldn't hold out several more months for a still relatively untested Plasma 5 desktop, and the idea of supporting KDE4 in 2019 seems ridiculous. Any of the other options might not even be around in five years' time. Here's the snippet: https://www.suse.com/releasenotes/x86_64/SUSE-SLED/12/#fate-317812
So the main reason is that they don't trust KDE to be maintainable for five years. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/08/2014 10:58 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So the main reason is that they don't trust KDE to be maintainable for five years.
Well if that is their criteria they should base SLED/SLES on a different distro. /me: running and ducking.... - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlReahIACgkQv7M3G5+2DLLDQgCgozud/ZZwCpjUo317g7nnS555 /FIAoIDzrP7+2HcUCvMWBYKGHpQYjwP8 =9fIi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/11/14 22:32, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That's not asking them. That's TELLING them.
Where? Where in the above do I say they tell them them what to use?
Again, as the clients pay they are entitled to tell their provider what they want, and the provider asks. I'm sure of that.
You can tell SUSE you want AD all you like, but they're never going to listen, let alone implement and support it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/07/2014 01:32 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-07 20:12, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/07/2014 08:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-07 16:13, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
>>> On Friday 07 November 2014 13:55:01 Carlos E. R. wrote: >>>>>>> Why gnome? Because that is what their clients prefer, I expect. >>> >>> I wonder if they really asked their clients, and if that was the answer - how >>> much of that goes from ignorance. I'm sure they really ask them. They pay...
That's not asking them. That's TELLING them. Where? Where in the above do I say they tell them them what to use?
They TELL them what they will get, regardless of what they want. So the only way they get anything else is to go elsewhere, which leave suse totally in the dark about what customers want. Henry Ford said you can have any color of car you want, so long as it was black. He pretty much got away with that. Suse has no such standing, and merely being the "Expensive Ubuntu" isn't going to earn then any market share.
Again, as the clients pay they are entitled to tell their provider what they want, and the provider asks. I'm sure of that.
How in the hell can you be sure of that? At my day job we've been paying SLES customers for years, on multiple servers. Not once were we asked what we want. Its take the money and run. Have a support question? Its 20 questions from them before you get to ask yours. When I asked for features, (easier integration of off the shelf NAS), it was "not in our plans". Carlos, buddy, you are blowing smoke. Suse knows nothing of what the customer wants, is not interested in finding out. They make their living (if that's what they are doing) by being "Not Red Hat". Don't get me wrong, SLES is very cool, and the easiest path to getting everything up and running for a departmental server, complete with a working ldap (for everything) and mail files, printers. Its much less fiddling than Opensuse. Hey, other
companies ask me about what I bought from them. My car company asked me a long list of detailed questions that took me hours to complete! Most companies are interested in learning what their clients want.
But not Suse. (And unfortunately, that attitude carries over into Opensuse quite strongly). - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlRdQVIACgkQv7M3G5+2DLKGHQCbBabc7tSj78fq2WcN8hJ/fOQY O9oAnjhAZiyyFQFqnqLuYw9hcK+r8ayZ =BkDX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-11-07 23:01, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/07/2014 01:32 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Again, as the clients pay they are entitled to tell their provider what they want, and the provider asks. I'm sure of that.
How in the hell can you be sure of that? At my day job we've been paying SLES customers for years, on multiple servers. Not once were we asked what we want. Its take the money and run. Have a support question? Its 20 questions from them before you get to ask yours.
When I asked for features, (easier integration of off the shelf NAS), it was "not in our plans".
Carlos, buddy, you are blowing smoke. Suse knows nothing of what the customer wants, is not interested in finding out. They make their living (if that's what they are doing) by being "Not Red Hat".
I'm distressed to learn that. Really.
But not Suse.
(And unfortunately, that attitude carries over into Opensuse quite strongly).
That part I knew first hand. When they think they are right, they don't listen, unless comes somebody with IBM behind and tells them "you are wrong, change this fast". - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlReYaUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XcAwCfbRKLLJlb7vJQ4f0+UquFm9a9 Y90Ani/EbqraJEJxKMAfFiZg9ULkN6Db =F+8a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 November 2014 19:32:07 Carlos E. R. wrote:
But not Suse.
(And unfortunately, that attitude carries over into Opensuse quite strongly).
That part I knew first hand. When they think they are right, they don't listen, unless comes somebody with IBM behind and tells them "you are wrong, change this fast".
Hm, how you got that experience? For me almost every release was "wow they really improved it", except for 10.0 I think, when during the mono hype days packager was based on mono and beagle was introduced. That was a disaster, the only time I reverted back to 9.3 until 10.1 came out. -- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-11-08 20:35, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
Hm, how you got that experience?
This case was horrible: <https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=439018> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Sat, Nov 08, 2014 at 09:40:40PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-08 20:35, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
Hm, how you got that experience?
This case was horrible:
Wow, an issue from 2008. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-11-09 01:30, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sat, Nov 08, 2014 at 09:40:40PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-11-08 20:35, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
Hm, how you got that experience?
This case was horrible:
Wow, an issue from 2008.
But it left a sore scar, demonstrative of a way of thinking :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Fri, 2014-11-07 at 12:43 +0100, Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
Hi All,
I'm asking just out of curiosity, I do not want to start flame wars and I do not have any strong feelings towards it as I'm not the target audience, as openSUSE fulfils my needs better than enterprise-grade desktop.
So, from my ignorant point of view it always seemed like KDE is the strongest point of SUSE amongst all linux distributions. And then suddenly I discover that SLED offers gnome instead.
Why decision was made to use gnome instead of kde? Have I missed something important or it's just some single showstoper feature that forced move to gnome (like evolution-ews probably?)?
-- Regards, Stas Stability.
KDE3 was obsolete, KDE4 was barely functional when it rolled out. GNOME was the only logical option. I'm pretty sure they haven't updated to GNOME3. I'd be shocked and a bit horrified if they unleashed KDE 4 on their users. Even in it's currently more refined state, I still won't install it for my clients since it increases my costs by several magnitudes because of its instability and inconsistency. KDE is sweet, but it's just not really suitable for a commercial distribution. -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Project Member and Advocate since 2011 http://www.opensuseadventures@blogspot.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/07/2014 08:11 AM, Roger Luedecke wrote:
Stability.
KDE3 was obsolete, KDE4 was barely functional when it rolled out. GNOME was the only logical option. I'm pretty sure they haven't updated to GNOME3. I'd be shocked and a bit horrified if they unleashed KDE 4 on their users. Even in it's currently more refined state, I still won't install it for my clients since it increases my costs by several magnitudes because of its instability and inconsistency. KDE is sweet, but it's just not really suitable for a commercial distribution. --
If you Replace every instance of KDE in the above paragrapy with Gnome the paragraph it makes just as much sense as the way ou have written it. Moving goal post, double standard. A secirity-patched only KDE4 would be just as stable as a secuity-patched only Gnome. And that's basically what SLED is. Calling something while you are following the development branch is just a tad intellectually dishonest. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 November 2014 08:11:42 Roger Luedecke wrote:
KDE3 was obsolete, KDE4 was barely functional when it rolled out. GNOME was the only logical option.
It sounds like you're talking about SLED 11, and I'm asking about SLED 12.
I'm pretty sure they haven't updated to GNOME3.
They did, that's my point. -- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (11)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
ellanios82 -
John Andersen -
lynn -
Malcolm -
Marcus Meissner -
Peter -
Roger Luedecke -
Stanislav Baiduzhyi