-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2017-12-11 a las 07:53 +0100, Per Jessen escribió:

The Fritz 7590 will do analogue telephony too, but I seem to remember something about the wiring in a US phone being different. Not a big deal IIRC.

I don't remember Canadian POT phones (which are the same as USA phones, I believe) being different from Spanish phones. The system on UK was different, because they separated a ring wire - at least when I looked decades ago. There could be other subtle differences, specially regarding modems. Cordless phones are currently different, yes (DECT). - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlouUWQACgkQja8UbcUWM1wDTAEAnsHCJjVAj6cjz2etvk8PeQ1i 3L/p0QVr7ilNPaxFF7gA/AxQE4K+hhrdmyrPyIcQPOEQGjqoDdEaHZEhtP5E91gl =bST3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 12/11/2017 05:04 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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El 2017-12-11 a las 07:53 +0100, Per Jessen escribió:

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The Fritz 7590 will do analogue telephony too, but I seem to remember something about the wiring in a US phone being different. Not a big deal IIRC. I don't remember Canadian POT phones (which are the same as USA phones, I believe) being different from Spanish phones. The system on UK was different, because they separated a ring wire - at least when I looked decades ago. There could be other subtle differences, specially regarding modems.

Cordless phones are currently different, yes (DECT). Good point, yes. DECT is worldwide now, but the frequencies in the US are different.

True.  There are about eight different bands used in different countries throughout the world.  I've had lots of different cordless phones, but never used a DECT phone.  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the point in DECT phones anymore if a smart phone can serve the same purpose.  (?) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/12/17 17:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:

It has some of the functions of a smartphone, but connects only to the house POT line.

It is a cordless phone, but follows a standard.

Which means that, unlike the early cordless phones, any DECT phone will connect to and provide basic phone service over any base station. I've done that, connecting handsets from one manufacturer to a base station from another. In the early days of cordless phones, they only worked with the base station they came with. Cheers, Wol -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/12/17 18:37, Per Jessen wrote:

ken wrote:

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On 12/11/2017 05:04 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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El 2017-12-11 a las 07:53 +0100, Per Jessen escribió:

...

The Fritz 7590 will do analogue telephony too, but I seem to remember something about the wiring in a US phone being different. Not a big deal IIRC. I don't remember Canadian POT phones (which are the same as USA phones, I believe) being different from Spanish phones. The system on UK was different, because they separated a ring wire - at least when I looked decades ago. There could be other subtle differences, specially regarding modems.

Cordless phones are currently different, yes (DECT). Good point, yes. DECT is worldwide now, but the frequencies in the US are different.

True.  There are about eight different bands used in different countries throughout the world.  I've had lots of different cordless phones, but never used a DECT phone.  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the point in DECT phones anymore if a smart phone can serve the same purpose.  (?)

There is some truth in that, I've wondered about doing it for a while, but it's not as convenient. For instance, we have 2 handsets for the home# - can I make that ring through to two smartphones, pick one and the 2nd one will stop ringing? I would also want my office phone to ring through to my smartphone, but with a different ringtone.

DECT won't do that. The base station will cause all handsets to ring, and answering any handset will stop all the others from ringing. There's no way, to the best of my knowledge (and I have tried) to connect one handset to two base stations simultaneously. Cheers, Wol -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2017-12-11 a las 23:42 +0100, Per Jessen escribió:

Wol's lists wrote:

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On 11/12/17 18:37, Per Jessen wrote:

...

...

...

...

True.  There are about eight different bands used in different countries throughout the world.  I've had lots of different cordless phones, but never used a DECT phone.  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the point in DECT phones anymore if a smart phone can serve the same purpose.  (?)

There is some truth in that, I've wondered about doing it for a while, but it's not as convenient. For instance, we have 2 handsets for the home# - can I make that ring through to two smartphones, pick one and the 2nd one will stop ringing? I would also want my office phone to ring through to my smartphone, but with a different ringtone.

DECT won't do that. The base station will cause all handsets to ring, and answering any handset will stop all the others from ringing.

Well, DECT does that today just fine. Three handsets, in two groups. Works very well. On one handset, I get two ringtones depending on the line. (this is VoIP with SIP & DECT).

Not all sets will do that. Mine is single line. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlovkh0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1wdwwD/VR+B/55Pzu5lbwoaMtlWxfIv oFQXHfUQu3ShJsW1xnIA/0y7/ssI/bGBDP2Hpuih5Lt7PyCWo7SFU59ZIkdOM4am =+Jk3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2017-12-12 a las 11:33 +0100, Per Jessen escribió:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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DECT won't do that. The base station will cause all handsets to ring, and answering any handset will stop all the others from ringing.

Well, DECT does that today just fine. Three handsets, in two groups. Works very well. On one handset, I get two ringtones depending on the line. (this is VoIP with SIP & DECT).

Not all sets will do that. Mine is single line.

Of course, that's always the case. Wol suggested DECT itself won't do it, but it will (when it carries SIP traffic). If you also want to benefit, you need a handset that supports it. (I presume "it" = SIP).

We use a Gigaset C470IP with 2 x C430 and 2 x Cxxx (can't read the number anymore). The base station supports up to 5 handsets, Asterisk picks a handset and dishes out the ringtone depending on which number is being dialled.

Reminds me. Last time I was shopping for DECT, an alternative was some type of base and associated android phone or tablet. I can't look it up today, limited bandwidth. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlovtRIACgkQja8UbcUWM1x/twD8CcZYWAmpO/Pdcfmr9HhY+d9W oznynC+6uQ2dkCZbKdkA/35+V+nyRJkCJHfD5Up9UaciL6TV2qPhGXQaVGFQXoGR =Quoj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Content-ID: El 2017-12-11 a las 13:07 -0500, ken escribió:

On 12/11/2017 04:35 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I don't remember Canadian POT phones (which are the same as USA phones, I believe) being different from Spanish phones. The system on UK was different, because they separated a ring wire - at least when I looked decades ago. There could be other subtle differences, specially regarding modems.

In the US, although there are typically four wires in the cable going to the house or business, POTS uses just two of wires (the red and the green), one of which is the "tip" and the other the "ring".

Same in Spain, although I have never known the colours or names. It is just the two middle ones of the connector. I think some homes used one of the other wires for some house purpose, probably related to internal calls or transfers. I have also seen cables with only the two central wires.

  I had ISDN in my house for a while and even then only two wires were used... but that was probably on the "smaller" ISDN protocol.  Does the UK use three wires...?  or all four?

The line to the house had two wires, as everywhere, but at the House there was a box with a capacitor, to separate the ring signal on a third wire. I don't know if this was everywhere, but the British magazine I followed certainly described this wiring. I don't know the reasoning, either. That meant that the phones could omit the internal wiring to separate the bell, and thus, could not be used outside of Britain. I hope someone can confirm or deny :-) - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlouzC0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1yv+AEAkgczyr4roIhva7oegTVBtMs/ nzRtkCIl6MX8NHRxjc4BAIjtHR2b5C2bY4Dye+Xsu1QTwQsM+/AzcVqtNOhUmK4G =pijs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Wol's lists wrote:

On 11/12/17 18:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The line to the house had two wires, as everywhere, but at the House there was a box with a capacitor, to separate the ring signal on a third wire. I don't know if this was everywhere, but the British magazine I followed certainly described this wiring. I don't know the reasoning, either.

At least one UK line provides power - our phones are designed to stay working even if the electricity supply to the house is cut.

Same in most places.

How it actually works I don't know - I believe it works at 50V.

Here it's usually up towards 90V. Anyway, yours will probably go away too - in Switzerland, residential lines using analogue and ISDN are being turned off in two weeks. All migrated to VoIP. Germany is taking a little longer, and I expect it'll happen in the UK too. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.1°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Wol's lists wrote:

New developments are FTTP (Fibre To The Premises) so they will be taken out by a power cut as a matter of course :-(

Depends on the infrastructure. Cable systems offer phone systems via their DOCIS modems. However, the modem has a backup battery rated for 4-8 hours in case the mains go down.

I don't know whether it's changed, but I thought in the US you could take a mobile from one town to the next, and it would stop working.

Uh, no. There are 4 continental providers( AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, & T-Mobile) who generally have service within 10 miles of population areas(along interstates). I can use mine anywhere I have a Sprint signal and can roam usually as well. In fact, when most people move now they keep the mobile number the same and don't change it to their new area code. As for POTS(plain old telephone system), it's a national standard and the Universal Service Fund was designed for it and Power to ensure that all addresses can get both utilities(basically everyone pays for everyone to have access). Any phone sold in the US can work with any phone outlet. The 4 wire line only uses the Red/Green for the main line. You can use the Yellow/Black for a second line using the same wire. The reason US telcos want to get away from copper is that most wire servicing is done by union labor. That, and infrastructure costs more than a wireless signal in rural areas. In my area, there is a huge amount of homes with no access to cable or broadband. There are some WISPs(Wireless ISPs) but they are a slow & shared bandwidth system. One 3-10Mb/s access point can connect up to 200 users via 900Mhz or 2.4Ghz unlicensed. But, the more using it, the slower the overall speed. I get faster speed from my hotspot than my friend who is connected to a WISP. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/11/2017 01:01 PM, Wol's lists wrote:

Here we have the new infrastructure companies rolling out fibre, so the old GPO (British Telecom) is being forced to upgrade to compete. We also have a big problem with metal theft, although they tend to target power rather than phone cables. Our most recent power outage was because thieves tried to steal a - I think - 250KV power line. It was THE power supply over a small river, and took out an area maybe four miles square. I think it took a week to repair.

Interesting.  I had no idea that metal theft was a thing in Britain.  I've seen it in the Mexican border areas, where railroad grade crossing gates don't exist because they'd be quickly stolen for the copper content. BTW, you mention that the thieves "tried" to steal a 250KV power line.  They didn't succeed?  If not, why?  Did they survive?  Why did it take so long to repair?   Did a transformer need replacement? Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2017-12-11 at 13:17 -0800, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

On 12/11/2017 01:01 PM, Wol's lists wrote:

...

Here we have the new infrastructure companies rolling out fibre, so the old GPO (British Telecom) is being forced to upgrade to compete. We also have a big problem with metal theft, although they tend to target power rather than phone cables. Our most recent power outage was because thieves tried to steal a - I think - 250KV power line. It was THE power supply over a small river, and took out an area maybe four miles square. I think it took a week to repair.

Interesting. I had no idea that metal theft was a thing in Britain. I've seen it in the Mexican border areas, where railroad grade crossing gates don't exist because they'd be quickly stolen for the copper content.

It is an issue in Spain. Not metal in general, but copper. Some have died while trying to steal live lines. Often they steal the lines from street lines, that are underground. They cut the line at one end, they go to another end a kilometre away, and pull. Like tying it to a van and start it. The lights at the highway entrance to my city do not work since years, I believe the lines were stolen. Obviously replacing the lines is way more expensive than what they get. And they can also damage the tubing and other gadgets in the attempt. Of course it can take long to repair. I heard someone stole the catenary of a railway for kilometres. They can also steal the copper pipes from houses. The issue is diminishing, the police are getting more efficient at it. Like going for the scrape yards that buy it. One reason for going fibre is precisely to avoid the problem, but sometimes they cut the fibre to find out if it is copper. They are not engineers, after all. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlou/CUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VZLACeO1HprFkojL+DB7nSbVU4cOlI bRwAn2bq8FVp1zKJdwQospfy7QjXdTYm =CaIV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/11/2017 06:08 PM, Larry Stotler wrote:

Fiber is easy to install in urban areas like New York

Hurricane Sandy caused a rapid shift to fibre, as all the copper cables were damaged by the flooding. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

You can roam now because they adhered to GSM, which is an European standard (pushed by the governments). Before that, from what I knew it was not possible to roam (no such concept), the systems were not compatible.

Actually, it was LTE not GSM. My LG has LTE & CDMA tho. I can't switch to AT&T and use their 3g/GSM. Also, older LTE phones use different bands. Verizon uses 700Mhz and Sprint at 1900Mhz, etc. Anymore it's cheaper for a phone to have all the LTE bands than not, but 2G/3G can still be an issue for when 4G is too weak. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2017-12-11 a las 21:55 -0500, James Knott escribió:

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 21:55:02 -0500 From: James Knott To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] Fritz!Box telephony in the US

On 12/11/2017 04:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

...

Depends on the infrastructure. Cable systems offer phone systems via their DOCIS modems. However, the modem has a backup battery rated for 4-8 hours in case the mains go down. Not here.

Mine does.

Apparently phone service via fibre is not an essential service in the legislation of many countries, so they don't need to handle coverage full time at high reliability. So a battery is optional, I mean, up to the company. Which is another reason for the switch, from the ISP side. In the end, money. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlovk3gACgkQja8UbcUWM1wCgwEAhezvJcfBXuElY4upQ095atIi iNRVsYisZDtc+ouhPioA/Ra+LHOMN251wufHgAk5Ed9psD8BiL0I4m8ZkCSgS0Qs =j1Hg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2017-12-12 a las 11:25 +0100, Per Jessen escribió:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

El 2017-12-11 a las 21:55 -0500, James Knott escribió:

...

Apparently phone service via fibre is not an essential service in the legislation of many countries,

I would be surprised if a fibre services is an essentially service in any country. Well, perhaps in some of the former Eastern European countries where they were able to skip forward a lot.

...

so they don't need to handle coverage full time at high reliability. So a battery is optional, I mean, up to the company.

AFAIK, for emergency service, Swisscom's policy is to rely on the mobile network. I don't know of any fibre or adsl modem/routers being installed with batteries.

In my case, the phone is handled not by the router, but by a device called ONT, which does the conversion from fibre to Ethernet. The router is connected to it, and it also could handle the phone, but doesn't. It would be perfectly possible to design it with a battery, it must draw an small standby current. It would also be possible to charge extra for the optional battery, it would be better than the current situation of no battery at all. So I have ONT + Router + TV desco, plus *many* cables. Currently, the same company uses a single box. I have not seen it, don't know if it has a battery. Mobile network for emergencies... Well, after some hours they need recharging. And that network typically saturates easily. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlovtzIACgkQja8UbcUWM1yXcQD/dnXgSJjsTWZxcSo55kZHBVKi PLiyhKxmddYR/i5JYMQA/2fHhdQ9Zi6TB3iocGp+2pptknGVA7Inc9UItSAl7Q/8 =6g/p -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2017-12-12 a las 12:29 +0100, Per Jessen escribió:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

In my case, the phone is handled not by the router, but by a device called ONT, which does the conversion from fibre to Ethernet. The router is connected to it, and it also could handle the phone, but doesn't.

It would be perfectly possible to design it with a battery, it must draw an small standby current. It would also be possible to charge extra for the optional battery, it would be better than the current situation of no battery at all.

So I have ONT + Router + TV desco, plus *many* cables.

I don't think I've quite understood your setup, but to compare with my own - the router needs power, it's on the UPS. Asterisk needs power, it's on the UPS. The switch in the house needs power, has no UPS. The DECT base station needs power, has no UPS. If we have no power, we have no telephone - other than the mobiles.

Ok, I'll try to explain. The fibre from the telco connects to a device called ONT (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_network_terminal). This device has a connector (RJ11?) that provides the POTS alike service, and an ethernet connector. The phone connector from the ONT is connected to the phone input of the DECT base, giving analog phone service to the house, and also to the old copper pair inside the house, although I do not use it. I think there is a separate bell near the patio. It is of course disconnected from the street copper pair. The ONT should be designed with a battery (included or optional), but it is not. The ONT obviously handles the SIP to phone conversion. I have no access to it, no configuration interface appears on the LAN, I think. The ethernet connection from the ONT goes to the router, which has the typical 4+1 mouths. One of these goes to the TV desco, another to my switch on a different room and floor. The router also has a phone output connector, which is not used in the currently ISP suplied configuration. The TV desco connects to the router on eth, and also to the digital TV antenna on the roof (IIRC), which is not used. Has an hdmi? output that goes to the TV set. Finally, there is a TV set :-) All those gadgets, including the TV, go to the same UPS. All of them, because the UPS sits on the floor at the side of the cabinet, and there is a single AC mains cable going into the cabinet. The switch and WiFI AP are on another room with the computers, so they get a different UPS. The router has its own WiFi AP, but I disabled it (bad coverage). Currently the ISP replaces ONT + Router + TV desco with a single box. So much fewer cables and AC power suplies.

...

Mobile network for emergencies... Well, after some hours they need recharging. And that network typically saturates easily.

Mobile phone batteries easily lasts for a day or two.

Mine barely a day.

Besides, we're not talking nationwide emergencies, just an individual dialling 112.

Exactly. My mains have failed. If the repairs take a day or two (not that unusual) I have no land line nor mobile.

I think it's a perfectly sound decision to rely on the mobile phone. It was already partially done when we switched to ISDN 25 years ago - the network terminator box (NTBA) can be powered from the network, but it cannot power the ISDN phones, only an oldfashioned analogue phone would work in an emergency. Anyway, we're way off-topic.

Right... I thought this conversation was hapening on the OT mail list :-o - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlovynEACgkQja8UbcUWM1zObgD+LBz7+2WkujHBhvzXGFkWjSFj K8ZHLTjX9cvbg4FOO/oA/jIbva44et+2CPBW+/JbG4v6HSYbDqFY6/GSHuz2Z3uM =wgil -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 12/12/2017 06:56 AM, Wols Lists wrote:

Has the mobile network EVER lasted more than a couple of hours after the power goes out?

Many cell sites have backup generators.

And of course, what about 9/11 ... (where the mobile network nerve centre was located in the Twin Towers, of course ...)

There may have been cell sites up there, but I doubt the "nerve centre". Modern cell sites are connected with IP/Ethernet over fibre or short haul microwave. They connect back to the carriers central office. There were certainly central offices in NYC, and one was even destroyed. However it wasn't at the top of the towers, but nearby. BTW, I'm currently working on a project for a cell carrier upgrading it's network. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Wols Lists wrote:

On 12/12/17 11:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Mobile network for emergencies... Well, after some hours they need recharging. And that network typically saturates easily.

Has the mobile network EVER lasted more than a couple of hours after the power goes out?

Around here yes. Every mobile relay tower has its own generator. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.9°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/11/2017 01:52 PM, Wol's lists wrote:

On 11/12/17 18:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The line to the house had two wires, as everywhere, but at the House there was a box with a capacitor, to separate the ring signal on a third wire. I don't know if this was everywhere, but the British magazine I followed certainly described this wiring. I don't know the reasoning, either.

At least one UK line provides power - our phones are designed to stay working even if the electricity supply to the house is cut. How it actually works I don't know - I believe it works at 50V.

Cheers, Wol

Standard landline phones in the US are supplied power from the exchange: -42 volts, I believe. The ring signal is something like 25Hz AC applied on the DC lines at about 90 volts. US phone companies are trying to get away from "copper" as they call it--i.e., wired phone service, but as far as I know, there has been no concerted effort to eliminate "copper." There is also politics involved; where I live the local political division (Town) would not agree to let Verizon expand their fiber optic network into the Town. I don't know why they needed permission, but laws are peculiar things! Where FIOS (fiber optic service) is available, it costs extra, and requires a locally powered converter at the premises, so of course if AC fails, so does your phone, unless it's battery backed up--at extra cost, of course! --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/11/2017 01:52 PM, Wol's lists wrote:

On 11/12/17 18:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The line to the house had two wires, as everywhere, but at the House there was a box with a capacitor, to separate the ring signal on a third wire. I don't know if this was everywhere, but the British magazine I followed certainly described this wiring. I don't know the reasoning, either.

At least one UK line provides power - our phones are designed to stay working even if the electricity supply to the house is cut. How it actually works I don't know - I believe it works at 50V.

Cheers, Wol

Dunno 'bout across the pond, but in North America, phones have used central office power for over a century. The CO provides -48V DC, nominal, actually close to 56V (on hook) to the phones. The phone company would have batteries and standby power, to keep the phones going during power failures. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/11/2017 01:07 PM, ken wrote:

On 12/11/2017 04:35 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I don't remember Canadian POT phones (which are the same as USA phones, I believe) being different from Spanish phones. The system on UK was different, because they separated a ring wire - at least when I looked decades ago. There could be other subtle differences, specially regarding modems.

In the US, although there are typically four wires in the cable going to the house or business, POTS uses just two of wires (the red and the green), one of which is the "tip" and the other the "ring". I had ISDN in my house for a while and even then only two wires were used... but that was probably on the "smaller" ISDN protocol. Does the UK use three wires...? or all four?

In North America, 3 wires were used on some party lines. The ring current was applied between one side of the line and ground. Which party was determined by which side of the line the ring current was applied to. As for ISDN, basic rate "BRI" was 2 x 64 Kb bearer channel & 16 Kb data channel and carried over 1 pair. In North America, primary rate "PRI", 1.544 Mb, 23 x 64 Kb bearer channel and 64 Kb data channel uses 2 pairs. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/12/17 01:53 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

Hi Ken

you don't need a Fritzbox or similar to do VoIP, but you do need a provider to connect you to the regular phone network.

Correct. My local phonecos, Bell and Roges who took over from Sprint some while ago, rovided this service but I found it was comparatively expensive. Other intrernet providers that lease cable capacity from Rogers offer a voip service. But the independents who specialise can probably give you the ebst rates. I use VOIP.MS https://voip.ms/en/rates/international Depending on your location and local legislation you may have number mobility. It applies where I am and I kept the same number in all my dealings with Bell,. Sprint, Rogers and now voip.ms. When I signed up I also decided to take a new business line number. They asked me where I would like it to be "local" to, Toronto, New York, Los Angeles or London, Paris, Berlin? Same price. They have nodes all across north America and western Europe

To hook up a plain analogue phone for VoIP, all you really need is a little converter (often called "ATA") box a la Linksys SPA112 or the Grandstream ATA-486.

I have the Linksys at home. I also have a voip app on my cell phone and tablet. And voip.ms has nodes, as I said, all across north America and western Europe. Heck, If I'm in rural Wales visiting a relative there and visit a coffee shop that has internet service I _could_ make use of the Toronto node, if I forgot the London numbers, using my Android tablet and Zoiper, but there would be a bit of delay/echo from crossing the Atlantic back and forth!

If you going to talk to the rest of the world, you pick a provider and they'll give you your SIP credentials to configure the box with.

I was astounded to find that the rate with voip.ms for calling my relatives in the UK/landlines[1] was the same as calling locally. Forget LD plans! Heck, it's the Internet for ${DEITY}'s sake! [1] Trying to call UK cell pones is a mess! But then compared to the North American system the UK phone system is and always has been a bit of a mess. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

El 2017-12-11 a las 10:38 -0500, Anton Aylward escribió:

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On 11/12/17 01:53 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Hi Ken

you don't need a Fritzbox or similar to do VoIP, but you do need a provider to connect you to the regular phone network.

Correct. My local phonecos, Bell and Roges who took over from Sprint some while ago, rovided this service but I found it was comparatively expensive. Other intrernet providers that lease cable capacity from Rogers offer a voip service.

My telephone company is giving me "fake" POT: it is VoIp behind the scenes. Some people manage to find out the SIP configuration details and use it. But then the ISP changes something and stops working for a while.

Swisscom does the same, but have agreed to make the SIP credentials available if people ask. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/12/17 15:38, Anton Aylward wrote:

[1] Trying to call UK cell pones is a mess! But then compared to the North American system the UK phone system is and always has been a bit of a mess.

You mean, like, a UK mobile works ANYWHERE in the UK - in fact, anywhere in Europe? I don't know whether it's changed, but I thought in the US you could take a mobile from one town to the next, and it would stop working. We do have (legally induced) problems with a phone on one provider being able to find a tower that belongs to that provider, but as far as the infrastructure is concerned, all landline phones are interchangeable, and all mobiles are interchangeable. Cheers, Wol -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/11/2017 01:53 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

ken wrote:

...

While hoping that the FCC doesn't kill network neutrality, I'm thinking about setting up VoIP at home to kiss my monthly phone bill good-bye. I've read up a bit on the router made in Germany called the Fritz!Box which purports to include in it the hardware and software and that it will work with US phones (the old, standard landline phones every American over twelve should have seen).  Does anyone have first-hand experience using VoIP with the Fritz!Box in the US?  I'm considering their model 7590. Hi Ken

you don't need a Fritzbox or similar to do VoIP, but you do need a provider to connect you to the regular phone network. To hook up a plain analogue phone for VoIP, all you really need is a little converter (often called "ATA") box a la Linksys SPA112 or the Grandstream ATA-486.

That's true, there are a number of those ATA boxes.  There are a few features, though, which sell the Fritzbox ahead of them.  One is that the Fritz is an integrated unit-- with others, e.g., the SPA112, I lose a LAN port (already in short supply) and need yet another mains outlet (with room enough for a power supply).  Fewer cables is always better.  Secondly, and much a selling point for me is that with the Fritz I can connect my smart phone because the Fritz has wireless built in... in effect the smart phone becomes a DECT except that it also works wherever the phone gets internet, whether at home or across the country.  Third, all of the features are integrated together and all difficulties I might have go to the same tech-support number.  I've found all too often, and all too painfully, that when I have two or three different products/units all needing to work together, their different tech-supports play hot potato with the problem... each separate tech-support monkey simply, continually blames the other product(s)/units(s) for the problem and the problem is never resolved.  Gimme instead one tech support call for the whole appliance, all the software and all the hardware.

If you going to talk to the rest of the world, you pick a provider and they'll give you your SIP credentials to configure the box with.

Right.  I'm also looking for recommendations on that service from the Noble Group Mind.

The Fritz 7590 will do analogue telephony too, but I seem to remember something about the wiring in a US phone being different. Not a big deal IIRC.

Yeah, the sketchy docs I've read say (I think) that there are two flavors of POTS, Annex A and Annex B.  This is configurable in the 7590... so I've been told.

/Per

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On 11/12/17 12:08 PM, ken wrote:

Secondly, and much a selling point for me is that with the Fritz I can connect my smart phone because the Fritz has wireless built in... in effect the smart phone becomes a DECT except that it also works wherever the phone gets internet, whether at home or across the country.

Well DUH, I have that anyway with my Android phone to my service provider anyway. It's part of the Android set-up sine neverwhen. If there is an internet/wifi service available when I make a call Android asks me if I want to use the VOIP service or the POCS - "plain Old Cell Service" ? Sorry, I don't think that's a selling point when you get it anyway with a reliable (and cheap[1]) voip service. [1] I just checked my CC statements. VoIP costs me about US$25 every three months for two lines. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 7:54 PM, ken wrote:

What I was speaking of was completely without any cellular service. That is, when I'm home, the Fritz rings my smart phone over wifi. When I'm not home but have internet-- like free wifi from hotspots or at a friend's house-- the Fritz still rings the smart phone, functionally as if I were home. No cell bills.

In the US you can try using Freedompop. They offer 200 minutes, 500 texts, and 200(AT&T phone) or 500MB(Sprint) data for free each month. I have one I use for Craigslist. Very useful. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2017-12-11 a las 22:16 -0500, Anton Aylward escribió:

On 11/12/17 07:54 PM, ken wrote:

...

...

Sorry, I don't think that's a selling point when you get it anyway with a reliable (and cheap[1]) voip service.

What I was speaking of was completely without any cellular service. That is, when I'm home, the Fritz rings my smart phone over wifi. When I'm not home but have internet-- like free wifi from hotspots or at a friend's house-- the Fritz still rings the smart phone, functionally as if I were home.  No cell bills.

I think you're missing the point I was making. I don't need cell service, I just need internet/wifi; as you say a free hotspot like the library of a coffee shop or a friend's house. In fact I don't need a cell phone, my tablet or my laptop are enough. The capability is there in the phone or with a app like Zoiper on a non-telephonic (aka wifi only) tablet.

Fritz isn't offering anything special.

Doing it easily :-) - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlovlG0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xuYwEAicFForxl+bf21/On+ZRlFWT7 2MWYe1TC43o2QQu2V2IA/2DrbPcivIFB/f6ce5xzBYdxDl7MO8/xNwROkt48czey =BYyS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 12/12/2017 08:39 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 12/12/17 03:33 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

Fritz isn't offering anything special. Doing it easily Yes, its easy to do with a plain old Android phone (and mine IS old) at no additional cost. Well documented. If you can access wifi you don't need the FritzBox. Q.E.D.

Who's supplying your phone number? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 13/12/17 02:43 PM, ken wrote:

...

Fritz isn't offering anything special.

It's always good to keep an open mind, and I'm doing that.  So what hardware and software do you think it would take to accomplish everything a person gets with a Fritzbox?

First: As someone pointed out you need a service provider of some sort to provide the connection to the world wide telephony system. This lets you map a phone number to the mechanisms discussed below. Please note: I'm perfectly well aware that you can do this yourself with additional hardware running Asterisk https://www.asterisk.org/ and connectivity yourself, in effect being your own service provider. People do that. It is not a minimalist solution. As I've mentioned, I make use of voip.ms but there are other service providers. Every trade show I go to there are the latest fly-by-nights. Some seem to last longer, some make it to google: http://landing.thinktel.ca/SIP-trunking/ Google for those nearest you, but do check out voip.ms for comparative cost. Second, given that you have an internet based VOIP service, please realise that service is accessible ANYWHERE you can get internet connectivity. This might be: - at home, wired - at home, wifi - at a friends house, wifi - on the street using municipal wifi if your city supports that - at Starbucks or any number of coffee shops or restaurants that supply wifi - in the waiting lounges of airports and train stations where wifi is available - in libraries - in pay-for-use internet cafés Given connectivity you might take any one of the following options: at home, I have an internet/Ethernet connection from my cable router to a Linksys ATA box that cost me $35 at a local store. That has a regular RJ45 plug. I can either plug a standard phone set into that or connect it to my existing household phone wiring (after disconnecting at the connection to the Bell wiring into the house) and have the phone service at all the regular phones though the house. at home, my cable router also handles wifi and I can access the service provider for phone calls from any device that has wifi: my Samsung phone, my tablet, for example. With my phone I can configure it so that the dialler that is built into that handset can also make voip calls over wifi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ9lOp5L7sU I have mine set to 'ask for each call'. Strictly speaking, you don't even need a service provider for you cell phone. You can use the wifi-to-SIP alone. That is what I do with my tablet. I run Zoiper, https://www.zoiper.com/ one of a wide number of VOIP applications for Android, and I believe it runs on other platforms PC/Windows, PC/Linux, PC/OSX and IOS. My tablet does not have GSM or LTE - NIX. only wifi. By using Zoiper and my voip.ms account I can make calls from anywhere I can get a wifi connection. That included the town hall of a small town in rural Wales[1]. So it you want to be minimalist, the least hardware you need is that free 7" tablet that the bank gave you when you signed up for an account. All the rest is software. OBTW: if your service provider cooperates you can send SMS TXT messages over VOIP. [1] Although I was using the London node so as to eliminate echo, to the people I was calling in Toronto it seemed as if I was calling from home. no long distance feel to the call. Their immediate reaction was "Oh, you're back early!". -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org