-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 at news:alt.folklore.computers or news:sci.crypt If you don't have an nntp client set up, you can see it here: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.folklore.computers/c/VM5_IvSR6gw - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iJIEAREIADoWIQQt/vKEw5659AgM/X2NrxRtxRYzXAUCYVWMJBwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJEI2vFG3FFjNcX+8A/31aoU81jd98hZ2cRbPT pz3FiflM6ZTOTHRmAvJ7URfuAP9SzYXfvrDqRVrw3iUV4D3dkbYiVn6JEFl2mufn 9fEBIw== =rzBm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 2021-09-30 05:06:27 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|at news:alt.folklore.computers or news:sci.crypt | |If you don't have an nntp client set up, you can see it here: | |https://groups.google.com/g/alt.folklore.computers/c/VM5_IvSR6gw
I have poked around there off and on, but the biggest issue for me was managing spam. The filtering mechanism's workings are pretty much opaque; I can let everything through or block everything, but I haven't figured out how to get any granularity between 1 and 0. :-) Leslie -- Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 El 2021-09-30 a las 17:01 -0500, J Leslie Turriff escribió:
On 2021-09-30 05:06:27 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|at news:alt.folklore.computers or news:sci.crypt | |If you don't have an nntp client set up, you can see it here: | |https://groups.google.com/g/alt.folklore.computers/c/VM5_IvSR6gw
I have poked around there off and on, but the biggest issue for me was managing spam. The filtering mechanism's workings are pretty much opaque; I can let everything through or block everything, but I haven't figured out how to get any granularity between 1 and 0. :-)
On nntp, there is basically no spam filtering as in email. It is possible for admins to delete posts, or to block someone, but this takes much time and they don't like it, so it is only done very limitedly. On clients like Thunderbird you can create your own filters, based on simple filters, like killfile a poster, if he uses always the same name. or you can manually kill a thread or a subthread. Not much you can do. Spam proper there is few. Trolls, there are many. You learn to know them. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.2 (Legolas)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCYVY3ZBwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVwXIAn2PkBFzGiY+YwiioH/4H KYb9/HbiAJ96ZyEDlnuBgPG8SSYMFYNrE1J6gQ== =eqyA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
|El 2021-09-30 a las 17:01 -0500, J Leslie Turriff escribió: |> On 2021-09-30 05:06:27 Carlos E. R. wrote: |>> |at news:alt.folklore.computers or news:sci.crypt |>> | |>> |If you don't have an nntp client set up, you can see it here: |>> | |>> |https://groups.google.com/g/alt.folklore.computers/c/VM5_IvSR6gw |> |> I have poked around there off and on, but the biggest issue for me was |> managing spam. The filtering mechanism's workings are pretty much |> opaque; I can let everything through or block everything, but I haven't |> figured out how to get any granularity between 1 and 0. :-) | |On nntp, there is basically no spam filtering as in email. | |It is possible for admins to delete posts, or to block someone, but this |takes much time and they don't like it, so it is only done very limitedly. | |On clients like Thunderbird you can create your own filters, based on |simple filters, like killfile a poster, if he uses always the same name. |or you can manually kill a thread or a subthread. Not much you can do. | |Spam proper there is few. Trolls, there are many. You learn to know them.
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up. Leslie -- Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
Le 01/10/2021 à 07:06, J Leslie Turriff a écrit :
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
as already said, real spam is rare. to get rid of trolls, it's very easy in Thunderbird: hit "k" and the hole thread is ignored. "K" and it's only the sub-thread very convenient jdd -- http://dodin.org
I like learning about printers and scanners.... Reminds me, I have a few old topics related to 'kernels' .... oops it's so robust now with KDE 5 Plasma options available. My apologies, i'm poor so SUSE , WOULD NEVER LIKE ME . On 10/1/21 12:41 AM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 01/10/2021 à 07:06, J Leslie Turriff a écrit :
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
as already said, real spam is rare.
to get rid of trolls, it's very easy in Thunderbird:
hit "k" and the hole thread is ignored. "K" and it's only the sub-thread
very convenient
jdd
On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp hierarchy or a single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a name. There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp hierarchy or a single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a name.
There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done.
Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin '**SPAM**'. Of course I have specific 'kill' ratings, people I _never_ want to see correspondence from. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 01/10/2021 11.46, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp hierarchy or a single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a name.
There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done.
Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin '**SPAM**'.
Not on Usenet, they do nothing. That's if they even have a server. And Thunderbird can not run spam filters on the usenet account, nor can spamassassin or any tool I know. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 2021-10-01 06:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 11.46, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp hierarchy or a single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a name.
There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done.
Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin '**SPAM**'.
Not on Usenet, they do nothing. That's if they even have a server.
And Thunderbird can not run spam filters on the usenet account, nor can spamassassin or any tool I know.
Start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader) then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders Your point being that most 'feeds' are 'raw', unprocessed. Yes, you can get email like that. Set up your own server, raw. Is this better security because you have absolute control, because you ow _exactly_ what pre-and-post processing your email is getting? What you mail transfer agent is doing? Was Hillary right after all? Is this better than your ISP? Better than Gmail? NNTP feeds are 'raw' like 'SMTP' feeds are raw, because that's the way ... oh wait! We've put more effort into the processing of email and email security. We generally don't read SMTP 'streaming' (though, once, when I owned a ISP, I did set up a streaming SMTP connection with another ISP owner in England. It was a 'just to show ourselves it could be done' exercise, pointless really. Or the point being you COULD treat NNTP like SMTP. But you are correct, Thunderbird doesn't have that capability. It's an issue back up the decision tree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOVER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOV_(computers) NOV, or News Overview, is a widely deployed indexing method for Usenet articles, also found in some Internet email implementations. Written in 1992 by Geoff Collyer, NOV replaced a variety of incompatible indexing schemes used in different client programs, each typically requiring custom modifications to each news server before they could be used. Well that says a lot, look at the date! That the principle has been used aggressively in email, so letting me filter email on a 'SpamAssassin" header, says a lot. That there isn't such for 'news' says even more. And I don't want to wade though the <<expurgated>> manually. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 01/10/2021 12.59, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 06:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 11.46, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp hierarchy or a single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a name.
There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done.
Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin '**SPAM**'.
Not on Usenet, they do nothing. That's if they even have a server.
And Thunderbird can not run spam filters on the usenet account, nor can spamassassin or any tool I know.
Start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader) then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders
Your point being that most 'feeds' are 'raw', unprocessed. Yes, you can get email like that. Set up your own server, raw. Is this better security because you have absolute control, because you ow _exactly_ what pre-and-post processing your email is getting? What you mail transfer agent is doing? Was Hillary right after all? Is this better than your ISP? Better than Gmail?
Anton, we are not talking of email. The thread is about someone with a @suse address giving a speech at Oslo about SUSE or people at SUSE intending or trying to revive usenet. Focus, please. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:29:42 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 01/10/2021 12.59, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 06:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 11.46, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't understand how to set them up.
On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp hierarchy or a single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a name.
There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done.
Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin '**SPAM**'.
Not on Usenet, they do nothing. That's if they even have a server.
And Thunderbird can not run spam filters on the usenet account, nor can spamassassin or any tool I know.
Start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader) then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders
Your point being that most 'feeds' are 'raw', unprocessed. Yes, you can get email like that. Set up your own server, raw. Is this better security because you have absolute control, because you ow _exactly_ what pre-and-post processing your email is getting? What you mail transfer agent is doing? Was Hillary right after all? Is this better than your ISP? Better than Gmail?
Anton, we are not talking of email.
The thread is about someone with a @suse address giving a speech at Oslo about SUSE or people at SUSE intending or trying to revive usenet.
Focus, please.
Shouldn't this thread all be on some other list? I don't know which, is there something like project mail?
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [10-01-21 11:15]:
On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:29:42 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 01/10/2021 12.59, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 06:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 11.46, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote: > On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
> Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't > understand how to set them up.
On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp hierarchy or a single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a name.
There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done.
Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin '**SPAM**'.
Not on Usenet, they do nothing. That's if they even have a server.
And Thunderbird can not run spam filters on the usenet account, nor can spamassassin or any tool I know.
Start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader) then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders
Your point being that most 'feeds' are 'raw', unprocessed. Yes, you can get email like that. Set up your own server, raw. Is this better security because you have absolute control, because you ow _exactly_ what pre-and-post processing your email is getting? What you mail transfer agent is doing? Was Hillary right after all? Is this better than your ISP? Better than Gmail?
Anton, we are not talking of email.
The thread is about someone with a @suse address giving a speech at Oslo about SUSE or people at SUSE intending or trying to revive usenet.
Focus, please.
Shouldn't this thread all be on some other list? I don't know which, is there something like project mail?
I thought that this list had become the official what-ever-you-want-to-talk-about list. Has it not. Very difficult to tell. And next you will be called topic police, and other names. Or be banned because someone on the bOARD takes exception to you expressing your paticular thoughts. 1984. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On 2021-10-01 10:24:38 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
|* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [10-01-21 11:15]: |> On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:29:42 +0200 |> |> "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote: |> > On 01/10/2021 12.59, Anton Aylward wrote: |> > > On 2021-10-01 06:01, Carlos E. R. wrote: |> > >> On 01/10/2021 11.46, Anton Aylward wrote: |> > >>> On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote: |> > >>>> On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote: |> > >>>>> On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote: |> > >>>> |> > >>>> ... |> > >>>> |> > >>>>> Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't |> > >>>>> understand how to set them up. |> > >>>> |> > >>>> On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top |> > >>>> entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp |> > >>>> hierarchy or a |> > >>>> single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a |> > >>>> name. |> > >>>> |> > >>>> There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. |> > >>>> The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject |> > >>>> contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another |> > >>>> folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a |> > >>>> different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done. |> > >>> |> > >>> Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps |> > >>> they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check |> > >>> headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin |> > >>> '**SPAM**'. |> > >> |> > >> Not on Usenet, they do nothing. That's if they even have a server. |> > >> |> > >> And Thunderbird can not run spam filters on the usenet account, |> > >> nor can spamassassin or any tool I know. |> > > |> > > Start with |> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader) |> > > then |> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders |> > > |> > > Your point being that most 'feeds' are 'raw', unprocessed. Yes, |> > > you can get email like that. Set up your own server, raw. Is |> > > this better security because you have absolute control, because you |> > > ow _exactly_ what pre-and-post processing your email is getting? |> > > What you mail transfer agent is doing? Was Hillary right after all? |> > > Is this better than your ISP? Better than Gmail? |> > |> > Anton, we are not talking of email. |> > |> > |> > The thread is about someone with a @suse address giving a speech at |> > Oslo about SUSE or people at SUSE intending or trying to revive |> > usenet. |> > |> > Focus, please. |> |> Shouldn't this thread all be on some other list? I don't know which, is |> there something like project mail? | |I thought that this list had become the official |what-ever-you-want-to-talk-about list. Has it not. Very difficult to |tell. And next you will be called topic police, and other names. Or be |banned because someone on the bOARD takes exception to you expressing your |paticular thoughts. | |1984.
There is an Off-Topic OpenSUSE list that I subscribed to for a few days, but it's REALLY off-topic. :-( Leslie -- Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64
* J Leslie Turriff <jlturriff@mail.com> [10-01-21 20:39]:
On 2021-10-01 10:24:38 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
|* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [10-01-21 11:15]: |> On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:29:42 +0200 |> |> "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote: |> > On 01/10/2021 12.59, Anton Aylward wrote: |> > > On 2021-10-01 06:01, Carlos E. R. wrote: |> > >> On 01/10/2021 11.46, Anton Aylward wrote: |> > >>> On 2021-10-01 05:26, Carlos E. R. wrote: |> > >>>> On 01/10/2021 07.06, J Leslie Turriff wrote: |> > >>>>> On 2021-09-30 17:17:08 Carlos E. R. wrote: |> > >>>> |> > >>>> ... |> > >>>> |> > >>>>> Yes, killfiles is what I was thinking of; but I don't |> > >>>>> understand how to set them up. |> > >>>> |> > >>>> On Thunderbird, Menu "tools", then hit message filters. The top |> > >>>> entry says on what folder it applies; it can be the entire nntp |> > >>>> hierarchy or a |> > >>>> single folder. Ok, then hit "new" to create a filter. Give it a |> > >>>> name. |> > >>>> |> > >>>> There are two main areas: how to trigger the filter and action. |> > >>>> The default selector is "subject", so you could say "subject |> > >>>> contains [IS SPAM]". Then on actions you could move to another |> > >>>> folder, or delete, or kill subthread, tag the email (give it a |> > >>>> different color)... Finally, close the dialog, done. |> > >>> |> > >>> Many, well my own, ISPs or aggregators run SpamAssassin. Perhaps |> > >>> they don't 'kill' but they do rate. The filter can check |> > >>> headers, check for SpamAssassin ratings. or things that begin |> > >>> '**SPAM**'. |> > >> |> > >> Not on Usenet, they do nothing. That's if they even have a server. |> > >> |> > >> And Thunderbird can not run spam filters on the usenet account, |> > >> nor can spamassassin or any tool I know. |> > > |> > > Start with |> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_(newsreader) |> > > then |> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Usenet_newsreaders |> > > |> > > Your point being that most 'feeds' are 'raw', unprocessed. Yes, |> > > you can get email like that. Set up your own server, raw. Is |> > > this better security because you have absolute control, because you |> > > ow _exactly_ what pre-and-post processing your email is getting? |> > > What you mail transfer agent is doing? Was Hillary right after all? |> > > Is this better than your ISP? Better than Gmail? |> > |> > Anton, we are not talking of email. |> > |> > |> > The thread is about someone with a @suse address giving a speech at |> > Oslo about SUSE or people at SUSE intending or trying to revive |> > usenet. |> > |> > Focus, please. |> |> Shouldn't this thread all be on some other list? I don't know which, is |> there something like project mail? | |I thought that this list had become the official |what-ever-you-want-to-talk-about list. Has it not. Very difficult to |tell. And next you will be called topic police, and other names. Or be |banned because someone on the bOARD takes exception to you expressing your |paticular thoughts. | |1984.
There is an Off-Topic OpenSUSE list that I subscribed to for a few days, but it's REALLY off-topic. :-(
only slightly more than this list. but it is listed as such and this is not. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode
On 2021-10-01 07:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Anton, we are not talking of email.
The thread is about someone with a @suse address giving a speech at Oslo about SUSE or people at SUSE intending or trying to revive usenet.
Focus, please.
Focus on ... if you want to revise Usenet you'll have to clean up it's act, and that means getting rid of the spam and trolls, like we have managed to do with email filtering. What triggered my comparison with the degree of development was the comment about filtering the Usenet feed. We developed servers (vis: Postscript) and filtering applications (vis: SpamAssassin and others) to clean up the delivery even before getting to the GUI. So long as there is all the junk, the poor signal-to-noise ration, associated with reading Usenet (cos it's in the 'raw') it's going to be unacceptable to the masses who have become used to the cleaned up email systems, for example Gmail. I wasn't trying to shift the subject, I was saying that if we did it for email then we should get the act togehter and do it with Usenet if you want to revive Usenet. It's signal-to-noise turned me off it a few years back and by all accounts its got no better. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 01/10/2021 17.12, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 07:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Anton, we are not talking of email.
The thread is about someone with a @suse address giving a speech at Oslo about SUSE or people at SUSE intending or trying to revive usenet.
Focus, please.
Focus on ... if you want to revise Usenet you'll have to clean up it's act, and that means getting rid of the spam and trolls, like we have managed to do with email filtering.
What triggered my comparison with the degree of development was the comment about filtering the Usenet feed. We developed servers (vis: Postscript) and filtering applications (vis: SpamAssassin and others) to clean up the delivery even before getting to the GUI. So long as there is all the junk, the poor signal-to-noise ration, associated with reading Usenet (cos it's in the 'raw') it's going to be unacceptable to the masses who have become used to the cleaned up email systems, for example Gmail.
I wasn't trying to shift the subject, I was saying that if we did it for email then we should get the act togehter and do it with Usenet if you want to revive Usenet. It's signal-to-noise turned me off it a few years back and by all accounts its got no better.
Nobody is going to develop anything for usenet... It is dying. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
Le 01/10/2021 à 18:30, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
On 01/10/2021 17.12, Anton Aylward wrote:
I wasn't trying to shift the subject, I was saying that if we did it for email then we should get the act togehter and do it with Usenet if you want to revive Usenet. It's signal-to-noise turned me off it a few years back and by all accounts its got no better.
the signal / noise ration is very good if you speak of real spam. else, like on the opensuse list, some thread may go far from the original subject, but it's iften like this than you get the betters infos...
Nobody is going to develop anything for usenet... It is dying.
may be not :-), I work with the french usenet team IMHO it lacks mostly good tutorials (And I lack the time to make them :-() and, of course a neat android client would be a must jdd -- http://dodin.org
On 01/10/2021 18.38, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 01/10/2021 à 18:30, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
On 01/10/2021 17.12, Anton Aylward wrote:
I wasn't trying to shift the subject, I was saying that if we did it for email then we should get the act togehter and do it with Usenet if you want to revive Usenet. It's signal-to-noise turned me off it a few years back and by all accounts its got no better.
the signal / noise ration is very good if you speak of real spam. else, like on the opensuse list, some thread may go far from the original subject, but it's iften like this than you get the betters infos...
There is little spam proper, but there are many trolls, depending on which newsgroup. But there are many trolls, some of them are a nuisance - and as the from address is faked anytime, you can not filter on it. Even if the admin at one server blocks someone from posting, he then goes to another server and starts posting again. There was one that posted thousand of random generated trash per hour. This time the admin acted when we emailed him, but then he appeared on another group, changing the patterns so that killfilling him became impossible.
Nobody is going to develop anything for usenet... It is dying.
may be not :-), I work with the french usenet team
IMHO it lacks mostly good tutorials (And I lack the time to make them :-()
and, of course a neat android client would be a must
It is not dead yet, I participate there, but it is dying. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
Le 01/10/2021 à 18:52, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
There was one that posted thousand of random generated trash per hour.
this can be forgiven at the server. I've never seen this.
It is not dead yet, I participate there, but it is dying.
the INN developer is still very active, he's french (Elie) jdd -- http://dodin.org
Am 01.10.21 um 19:33 schrieb jdd@dodin.org:
Le 01/10/2021 à 18:52, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
There was one that posted thousand of random generated trash per hour.
this can be forgiven at the server. I've never seen this.
It is not dead yet, I participate there, but it is dying.
the INN developer is still very active, he's french (Elie)
jdd
Have not followed completely this tread. has anybody a free usenet server i could use for thunderbird, last i have used was: reader.albasani.net but i do not receife since long time anithing :-(( ok, i do not often uesed it... simoN -- www.becherer.de
On 01/10/2021 20.17, Simon Becherer wrote: ...
Have not followed completely this tread.
has anybody a free usenet server i could use for thunderbird, last i have used was: reader.albasani.net but i do not receife since long time anithing :-(( ok, i do not often uesed it...
I use one that charges 10€ a year, I think: News.Individual.NET There are a few that are gratis, but after using them for a few years, I migrated to this one, better service. I don't have the list here, in this machine. I can find out later, if you are interested. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 2021-10-01 13:33, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
It is not dead yet, I participate there, but it is dying.
the INN developer is still very active, he's french (Elie)
The life is not determined by the (protocol) developer but by the users. USENET is competing against Twitter and Facebook and more and loosing. Part of the reason is the user interface, not the flood-fill protocol itself. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 2021-10-01 12:52, Carlos E. R. wrote:
There was one that posted thousand of random generated trash per hour.
Yes, and in the email world there were the advertising droids (read scammers) who had automated mailing, hundreds every minuet, address scraping services and resellers ... scumbags, scumbags. Calling them 'troll's would be granting them status.
This time the admin acted when we emailed him, but then he appeared on another group, changing the patterns so that killfilling him became impossible.
Yes, yes and yes, and we had that with email until we developed software that recognised these 'outbursts' and other automated tools. SpamAssassin is one example of delivering that in highly reconfigurable form to the end use as well as the 'last mile' ISP. But then again, Postscript delivered quality, high capacity, professional software that also allowed for protective database integration. This was a FOSS kludge, it was robust, high end professional grade software, security vetted. This is backbone-grade software (perhaps more so than some closed-source we have on backbone routers). But what would a cleaned up "troll-free" USENET deliver? On the one hand we have many subject specific mailing lists. perhaps they are not all under one hierarchy, but they can be found (google and duck) and, as I say, can be managed. Perhaps being more localized, they can be better moderated against spam and trolls than USENET groups. On another hand we have social media like Twitter and Facebook. Yes, they have their own problems with s/n and trolls, and in many ways their very existence is their own problem. But given twitter and Facebook, what's going to the mass appeal of USENET even if you clean it up, have automated troll-kill, spam-kill... ? -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 02/10/2021 15.17, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 12:52, Carlos E. R. wrote:
There was one that posted thousand of random generated trash per hour.
Yes, and in the email world there were the advertising droids (read scammers) who had automated mailing, hundreds every minuet, address scraping services and resellers ... scumbags, scumbags. Calling them 'troll's would be granting them status.
This time the admin acted when we emailed him, but then he appeared on another group, changing the patterns so that killfilling him became impossible.
Yes, yes and yes, and we had that with email until we developed software that recognised these 'outbursts' and other automated tools. SpamAssassin is one example of delivering that in highly reconfigurable form to the end use as well as the 'last mile' ISP. But then again, Postscript delivered quality, high capacity, professional software that also allowed for protective database integration. This was a FOSS kludge, it was robust, high end professional grade software, security vetted. This is backbone-grade software (perhaps more so than some closed-source we have on backbone routers).
But then again, applications such as Thunderbird which has anti spam features in email, doesn't allow them in the news section. And not going to happen, almost nobody develops for news. I can not mark a news post as spam. There is no filtering.
But what would a cleaned up "troll-free" USENET deliver?
That's up to me. But I'm denied the tools. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 2021-10-01 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nobody is going to develop anything for usenet... It is dying.
Indeed. Cue Simon & Garfunkel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Ro3eGuznI Mind you, even back before the great renaming, even back at the beginning of the 1980s, before USENET became the Internet, when mostly it was circulating around universities and research establishments, signal to noise was about 50%. Now the off-topic bit.... Perhaps think this list is bad! You think off-topic is bad? If you remove politics from the latter then you can realize that it's off topic from SUSE, yes, but the s/n about railways, about food processing and cooking is very high. Do I want to subscribe to lists on those matters? No, but I find 'socializing' with the people who talk about then me a good thing. It's like being at the local pub. Flip. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 2021-10-02 14:29, Anton Aylward wrote:
If you remove politics from the latter then you can realize that it's off topic from SUSE, yes, but the s/n about railways, about food processing and cooking is very high.
I'm not sure there is such a thing as a signal on an OT-list but I get what you mean.
Do I want to subscribe to lists on those matters? No, but I find 'socializing' with the people who talk about then me a good thing. It's like being at the local pub.
Completely agree. As a matter of fact. Will be going down to the pub in a bit. Cheers, -- /bengan
On 02/10/2021 14.57, Bengt Gördén wrote:
On 2021-10-02 14:29, Anton Aylward wrote:
If you remove politics from the latter then you can realize that it's off topic from SUSE, yes, but the s/n about railways, about food processing and cooking is very high.
I'm not sure there is such a thing as a signal on an OT-list but I get what you mean.
We talked about openSUSE in tiny machines switching up the lights at dusk ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 02/10/2021 14.29, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-01 12:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Nobody is going to develop anything for usenet... It is dying.
Indeed. Cue Simon & Garfunkel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Ro3eGuznI
Mind you, even back before the great renaming, even back at the beginning of the 1980s, before USENET became the Internet, when mostly it was circulating around universities and research establishments, signal to noise was about 50%.
It was out of reach for me. What was the great renaming? Feel free to answer on the OT list if you think it is more appropriate ;-)
Now the off-topic bit....
Perhaps think this list is bad! You think off-topic is bad? If you remove politics from the latter then you can realize that it's off topic from SUSE, yes, but the s/n about railways, about food processing and cooking is very high. Do I want to subscribe to lists on those matters? No, but I find 'socializing' with the people who talk about then me a good thing. It's like being at the local pub.
:-)
Flip.
-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 2021-10-02 10:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What was the great renaming? Feel free to answer on the OT list if you think it is more appropriate;-)
Oh, come on! You too can GoGoogle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming https://circleid.com/posts/20191227_the_early_history_of_usenet_part_viii_th... "I put “running” in quotation marks in the previous sentence because of the difficulty of actually controlling a non-hierarchical, distributed system with no built-in, authenticated control mechanisms." See also https://circleid.com/posts/20191125_the_early_history_of_usenet_part_v_authe... And yes, I remember this: https://www.newsweek.com/april-fools-day-april-fools-kremvax-kremlin-soviet-... -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 03/10/2021 18.08, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-02 10:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What was the great renaming? Feel free to answer on the OT list if you think it is more appropriate;-)
Oh, come on! You too can GoGoogle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming
I had no idea that it actually and officially existed :-o ... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 2021-10-03 14:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I had no idea that it actually and officially existed :-o
That's the thing I was taught about library research. The issue isn't that it exists as that phrasing, so try another, and another and another. try imagination, phonetic similarities, lexical similarities, conceptual similarities. This, in the days before full-text databases and the vast amount of stuff on-line, is what professional researchers were paid for. This is what I was taught by one of them. So when google came along ... reflex is to try googling. 'Cos you never know ... -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 03/10/2021 21.38, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-03 14:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I had no idea that it actually and officially existed :-o
That's the thing I was taught about library research. The issue isn't that it exists as that phrasing, so try another, and another and another. try imagination, phonetic similarities, lexical similarities, conceptual similarities. This, in the days before full-text databases and the vast amount of stuff on-line, is what professional researchers were paid for. This is what I was taught by one of them. So when google came along ... reflex is to try googling. 'Cos you never know ...
I'm not a google creature. It is not a reflex to me. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
On 2021-10-03 15:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 03/10/2021 21.38, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-03 14:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I had no idea that it actually and officially existed :-o
That's the thing I was taught about library research. The issue isn't that it exists as that phrasing, so try another, and another and another. try imagination, phonetic similarities, lexical similarities, conceptual similarities. This, in the days before full-text databases and the vast amount of stuff on-line, is what professional researchers were paid for. This is what I was taught by one of them. So when google came along ... reflex is to try googling. 'Cos you never know ...
I'm not a google creature. It is not a reflex to me.
Take a lesson from Picard, then. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg
On 03/10/2021 21.47, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-03 15:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 03/10/2021 21.38, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 2021-10-03 14:33, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I had no idea that it actually and officially existed :-o
That's the thing I was taught about library research. The issue isn't that it exists as that phrasing, so try another, and another and another. try imagination, phonetic similarities, lexical similarities, conceptual similarities. This, in the days before full-text databases and the vast amount of stuff on-line, is what professional researchers were paid for. This is what I was taught by one of them. So when google came along ... reflex is to try googling. 'Cos you never know ...
I'm not a google creature. It is not a reflex to me.
Take a lesson from Picard, then.
What about him? :-? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from oS Leap 15.2 x86_64 (Minas Tirith))
participants (9)
-
-pj -
Anton Aylward -
Bengt Gördén -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
J Leslie Turriff -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Patrick Shanahan -
Simon Becherer