On Monday 30 April 2001 09:22 pm, Stuart Powell wrote:

...

Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."

Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."

My advise: "Sod off until you get a court order!" The bsa has been known to bully them selves into office buildings as if they where the police. But first of all they are nothing and second, even the police need the approval from a judge to enter a building and do a house search. And for that they need proof that there is "reason to suspect" any wrong doings. That is unless they saw you run into the building while pointing a gun at them. But in your case, since you did not buy (or maybe own) an MS product you are not bound by their recent license terms which state that you must account for all installed MS software just because they ask you to. Don't worry about it. If you do good nobody can touch you. BB, Arjen

Absolutely. No doubt they're going to go after the big offenders... first. Once they've taken care of that, then they may filter down to home users. Most of the people at risk are the ones who don't realise that OEM licences do not transfer between machines. Just because you have Windows on your old Packard Bell does not give you carte blanche to put it on a new machine from the likes of Gateway and Dell, but it saves you some money when you're working out the online quote. Will this ignorance be enough to save Billy Homeuser from himself ? Stuart. -----Original Message----- From: suse-linux-e-return-55829-stuart=yorkshirepudding.com@lists.suse.com [mailto:suse-linux-e-return-55829-stuart=yorkshirepudding.com@lists.suse .com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Taylor Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 10:53 PM To: SuSE Linux List Subject: Re: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question They can send the PC police over, however, without a search warrant, you don't have to let them in. If they can convince a judge of probable cause, then they can get a search warrant. It is doubtful that they will pursue this for a petty theft charge (1 Window license). Now if there is a dozen or a hundred computers, it's grand theft and now you are talking real money. IANAL, Jeffrey Quoting Stuart Powell :

Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html

This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?

At 10:52 PM 4/30/2001 -0500, Jeffrey Taylor wrote:

They can send the PC police over, however, without a search warrant, you don't have to let them in. If they can convince a judge of probable cause, then they can get a search warrant. It is doubtful that they will pursue this for a petty theft charge (1 Window license). Now if there is a dozen or a hundred computers, it's grand theft and now you are talking real money.

Yehp , now if you have linux on all those machines and no mickysoft , you could be in for some money besides your legal fees. If they \get cought with nothing several times , that will realy blow there credibility big time.

IANAL, Jeffrey

Quoting Stuart Powell :

...

Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html

This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?

Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...

Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."

Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."

Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.

And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?

Let the battle commence...

Stuart.

-- I don't do Windows and I don't come to work before nine. -- Johnny Paycheck

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com

Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com

There is a company, Simply Computers (http://www.simply.co.uk) who will not sell a computer without an operating system. However, they do not offer any Linux distos. The only solution they offer is to buy MsDOS even if you are never going to use it. Is there anything that can be done or is there anyway that we can put pressure on the them to rethink their policy?

Just wondered.

Eddie

On Tuesday 01 May 2001 02:22, Stuart Powell wrote:

...

Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html

This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?

Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...

Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC

...

(http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows

...

for that PC."

Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."

Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner

I never buy off the rack. I have owned 2 computers in my life and bought the first from a friend. That first had 3 different mobos, 3 different vid cards, 2 different sound cards and, a replacement HDD. My 2nd comp was built from the ground up. Abit mobo, Celeron 500, voodoo3 vid card replaced with GF2-MX, same sound card, same hdd with 2nd added, new nic, new case, cdrom, etc.... I have always felt it better to do this so as to avoid running into the catch of having to also purchase an OEM version of an OS (typically Winblows). I already had a copy of W98 and the SE update CD and a couple version of Linux. Even if I bought an OEM comp (say...Dell) I would strip off the Dell OEM version and replace it with mine, especially true if you run a dual-boot config. Not only is M$ trying to get me to pay for the OS twice, but the OEM versions are generally "restore" disks that wipe out/reformat the drive. If one wishes to correct or replace a file and only has a restore disk - well all the old data and programs generally get wiped. And if you have a dual-boot sys this can be a real pain (so I've been told). The best way to send a message to vendors that you bought from in the past is to write them that you no longer intend to patronize their business due to constraints of the sales/product policies. If the company gets enough information the its customer base is declining due to the fact that they are forcing unwanted product options on their clientele, then if they're smart they'll change. They only understand it when it hits them in the wallet. -----Original Message----- From: Fergus Wilde [mailto:fwilde@chethams.org.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 0810 To: Eddie Howson Cc: SuSE list Subject: Re: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question Hi Eddie. Did you get Simply to write this policy down, or was it just done on the phone? It would be interesting to see it justified in writing. I think if a few folks email them to say that we're aware that MS is pressurising hardware vendors not to sell boxes without an OS, but that plenty of people want a comp. to put Linux on, this should get a result. Or, like the man said, buy elsewhere. I have found it no cheaper, but generally more satisfactory to build machines for Linux, that way you've got some control over the motherboard and other low-visibility elements of the package like the case and power supply as well as RAM, disks and so on, and you can pick directly from the hardware compatibility lists. In broader terms, I'm a bit surprised this sort of restrictive practice isn't illegal. When they say 'you must have an OS', I suppose they mean 'you must buy an MS OS.' However you slice it, this is very naughty and scarcely conducive to the healthy free-market competition men like Gates are always droning on about in justifying the present economic setup. Maybe a few emails to people like Charlie Stross at Computer shopper, too - may do it if I get time Cheers Fergus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eddie Howson" To: "SuSE Linux List" Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] [OT] Legal Issues Type Question police licence that I

...

will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.

And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?

Let the battle commence...

Stuart.

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com

On Wednesday 02 May 2001 13:16, Francesco Scaglioni wrote:

I guess most of you know this one:

http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/computing/man-from-ms.html

No, Ididn't. Yes, I do. Thanks. Terence

Take your money elswhere. At 12:44 PM 5/2/2001 +0100, Eddie Howson wrote:

There is a company, Simply Computers (http://www.simply.co.uk) who will not sell a computer without an operating system. However, they do not offer any Linux distos. The only solution they offer is to buy MsDOS even if you are never going to use it. Is there anything that can be done or is there anyway that we can put pressure on the them to rethink their policy?

Just wondered.

Eddie

On Tuesday 01 May 2001 02:22, Stuart Powell wrote:

...

Hello, everyone.

I just wanted to see what trouble I could stir up this evening with an article I found this morning. I'm surprised Fred didn't send it on. If you don't think of MS as the Evil Empire yet, this may well push you over the edge.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18589.html

This article raised many questions in my mind. Predominantly, though, is this: Just how far can Microsoft go in its pursuit of pirates without overstepping the mark ? How much of this power can be wielded beyond US borders ?

Let's say that I buy a shiny new PC from Gateway, for the sake of argument. I order it without an OS, since I intend to install a lovely fresh copy of SuSE on it, and don't want to have to pay the MS Tax. A vigilant Gateway employee then calls up MS and says "Stoo just bought a new machine without an OS. Please add another point to my score, as I am trying to win my own yacht from the MS 'Shop Your Customers for Profit' promotion". The next thing I get is a phone call from a drone in Redmond. The call goes something like this...

Drone - "Mr. Powell, it has come to our attention that you just bought a whizz-bang new Gateway PC without an OS. We will be sending the PC police (http://www.bsa.org) over to make sure you bought a valid Windows licence for that PC."

Me - "Sod off ! It's running Linux."

Question; can they still send the PC police round to check and see if I actually have Linux on the box ? What about the other PCs here that may or may not be running Windows ? Can they check those just because they're here and they feel like it ? How about my friend's PC in the corner that I will be upgrading with a new processor in a couple of days ? I don't know if he has a valid Windows licence or not. I certainly can't produce one for it myself.

And finally, how long is this kind of behaviour going to be tolerated before someone sees the light and puts a stop to this kind of thing ?

Let the battle commence...

Stuart.

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com

Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq and the archives at http://lists.suse.com

Hey, It's same here in Slovenia. You can get a comp without an OS only if the reseller is in "good mood", your friend of relative :]. But please mind another thing: Microsoft is doing a big pressure on all it's resellers, especially "Microsoft Solution Providers". Shall they start selling another OS [or commercializing it], suddendly, prices on MS producst for that company will "slowly" start to rise... Big bad Microsoft? Well, Microsoft is and has always been a "company", and as far as I know, companies are mostly looking for money. As I'm studying economics [I+m 17], I can only understand and "worship" their "haste for money", although as a costumer I don't like their price policy. But, hey, not everybody can become an almost-monopolist... -- Kind regards, Ziga Dolhar ------------------------------------------- libmoney.so.5 is needed by VMWare in order to run MSOfficeXP