[opensuse] A very good DE: Cinnamon 2.3.0!
Wow! This is a real beautiful, fast and full featured Desktop Environment which I do not understand why it is not being installed as default or among the default ones in OpenSUSE. I installed it with: sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Cinnamon:/Factory/openSUSE_13... Cinnamon And it is wonderful! Regards, -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.1 (Bottle) 64 bit - Kernel 3.15.5-1.g01d2774-default Gnome 3.12.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:03:37 -0300 Marco Calistri wrote:
Wow!
This is a real beautiful, fast and full featured Desktop Environment which I do not understand why it is not being installed as default or among the default ones in OpenSUSE.
I installed it with:
sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Cinnamon:/Factory/openSUSE_13... Cinnamon
And it is wonderful!
Thanks for sharing this, Marco. I'm extremely fond of Cinnamon on Mint, so much so that I keep it installed in parallel on my main system, along with openSUSE 12.3 / KDE4. It was my top candidate to replace the openSUSE 11.4 / GNOME2 installation I'd run through EOL. Had I not possessed enough GPU to support KDE4 properly, I'd have probably switched distributions at that time ... Cinnamon is that good, for sure. If you don't mind some questions... What, beyond adding the repository, was required to get it installed? Did you already know how to do this or is there a guide somewhere? Was the process seamless or did you have to fiddle around? When did you install it? Have you encountered any issues, major or minor, since? TIA & regards, Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 18/07/2014 23:07, Carl Hartung ha scritto:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:03:37 -0300 Marco Calistri wrote:
Wow!
This is a real beautiful, fast and full featured Desktop Environment which I do not understand why it is not being installed as default or among the default ones in OpenSUSE.
I installed it with:
sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Cinnamon:/Factory/openSUSE_13... Cinnamon
And it is wonderful!
Thanks for sharing this, Marco.
I'm extremely fond of Cinnamon on Mint, so much so that I keep it installed in parallel on my main system, along with openSUSE 12.3 / KDE4. It was my top candidate to replace the openSUSE 11.4 / GNOME2 installation I'd run through EOL. Had I not possessed enough GPU to support KDE4 properly, I'd have probably switched distributions at that time ... Cinnamon is that good, for sure.
If you don't mind some questions...
What, beyond adding the repository, was required to get it installed?
Did you already know how to do this or is there a guide somewhere?
Was the process seamless or did you have to fiddle around?
When did you install it?
Have you encountered any issues, major or minor, since?
TIA & regards,
Carl
Hi Carl, Happy to find another Cinnamon enthusiast! The installation is seamless and straightforward, no issues so far, on contrary here with Cinnamon the CD-DVD burner app Brasero has not buggy behaviours as it has with Gnome 3.12 where by you clicking on "Plugins" you get the crash of the application. I was googling looking for "Cinnamon" and I found the instructions here: http://it.opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon I've installed yesterday this version 2.30 but I already used Cinnamon with openSUSE in the past and I loved it since the very first time! Good Luck, -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.1 (Bottle) 64 bit - Kernel 3.15.5-1.g01d2774-default Gnome 3.12.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 14:31:14 -0300 Marco Calistri wrote: <snipped>
Happy to find another Cinnamon enthusiast!
The installation is seamless and straightforward, no issues so far, on contrary here with Cinnamon the CD-DVD burner app Brasero has not buggy behaviours as it has with Gnome 3.12 where by you clicking on "Plugins" you get the crash of the application.
I was googling looking for "Cinnamon" and I found the instructions here:
http://it.opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon
I've installed yesterday this version 2.30 but I already used Cinnamon with openSUSE in the past and I loved it since the very first time!
Good Luck,
Thank you Marco ... much appreciated! Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Il 20/07/2014 12:14, Carl Hartung ha scritto:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 14:31:14 -0300 Marco Calistri wrote:
<snipped>
Happy to find another Cinnamon enthusiast!
The installation is seamless and straightforward, no issues so far, on contrary here with Cinnamon the CD-DVD burner app Brasero has not buggy behaviours as it has with Gnome 3.12 where by you clicking on "Plugins" you get the crash of the application.
I was googling looking for "Cinnamon" and I found the instructions here:
http://it.opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon
I've installed yesterday this version 2.30 but I already used Cinnamon with openSUSE in the past and I loved it since the very first time!
Good Luck,
Thank you Marco ... much appreciated!
Carl
Carl, After some usage of this version of Cinnamon I found an important missing feature which is no power-management settings available inside the system control-settings. I don't know if it is the consequence of my current 13.1 configuration since I'm using custom kernel (latest stable) along with Gnome 3.12 or it is only related to a missing feature inside Cinnamon itself which is still a testing version. Beside this I like a lot this DE and I would like it would be supported and tailored for next openSUSE releases. Cheers, -- Marco Calistri opensuse 13.1 (Bottle) 64 bit - Kernel 3.15.6-1-default Gnome 3.12.2 Intel® Core™ i5-2410M CPU @ 2.30GHz × 4 - Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/18/2014 10:07 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:03:37 -0300 Marco Calistri wrote:
Wow!
This is a real beautiful, fast and full featured Desktop Environment which I do not understand why it is not being installed as default or among the default ones in OpenSUSE.
I installed it with:
sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Cinnamon:/Factory/openSUSE_13... Cinnamon
And it is wonderful!
Thanks for sharing this, Marco.
I'm extremely fond of Cinnamon on Mint, so much so that I keep it installed in parallel on my main system, along with openSUSE 12.3 / KDE4. It was my top candidate to replace the openSUSE 11.4 / GNOME2 installation I'd run through EOL. Had I not possessed enough GPU to support KDE4 properly, I'd have probably switched distributions at that time ... Cinnamon is that good, for sure.
If you don't mind some questions...
My take on this:
What, beyond adding the repository, was required to get it installed?
run 'sudo zypper install cinnamon' That brings in the 'cinnamon' pattern and hence 164 new packages. They include Networkmanager-gnome gnome-terminal Also, and I'm unclear why, cinnamon-bluetooth and wpa-supplicant even though this is a desktop with no wifi or bt capability. So I have Information for package cinnamon: --------------------------------- Repository: Cinnamon Name: cinnamon Version: 2.3.0-1.1 Arch: x86_64 Vendor: obs://build.opensuse.org/X11 Installed: Yes Status: up-to-date Installed Size: 5.4 MiB Summary: A Linux Desktop featuring a tranditional layout Description: The Cinnamon Desktop provides advanced innovative features and a traditional user experience. The underlying technology is forked from gnome-shell and the desktop layout is closer to GNOME2. The emphasis is put on making users look and feel at home and provide them an easy to use and confortable experience. So, this is 2.3 What version do you have with Mint, Car?
Did you already know how to do this or is there a guide somewhere?
"Bleedin' obvious, ain't it?" as someone once said. No, really. Marco gave this http://it.opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon and I tried this http://opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon and BINGO! Mind you, having already started up cinnamon and tried out various things it didn't tell me anything I hadn't already discovered.
Was the process seamless or did you have to fiddle around?
It depends what you mean by that. The first thing I did was change the background and font size so I could see what was on screen more clearly. That's me an my environment, so it may not really count. While In system settings I stepped though each item to see what was there and made some adjustments to see what happened. As I said, a lot of what I though should happen, would have happened if this was KDE systemsettings and could be "OK/apply" never happened until I logged out and logged back in.
When did you install it?
Friday night.
Have you encountered any issues, major or minor, since?
The biggest issue was that one with the "NoAccell". -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a President and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country.” -- Franklin D. Roosevelt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-20 21:00 (GMT-0400) Anton Aylward composed:
The biggest issue was that one with the "NoAccell".
Have you ever tried Option "Composite" "Disable" instead of NoAccel to see if it too could work around the driver problem? I know Gnome3 is incompatible with it, but others? No problem having it set in KDE, TWM or IceWM here regardless of video chip. I like having blinginess blocked at a foundational level, allowing my eyes to stay focused where they should be. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:00:04 -0400 Anton Aylward wrote: <snipped>
My take on this:
Thanks!
What, beyond adding the repository, was required to get it installed?
run 'sudo zypper install cinnamon'
That brings in the 'cinnamon' pattern and hence 164 new packages. They include
Networkmanager-gnome gnome-terminal
Also, and I'm unclear why,
cinnamon-bluetooth and wpa-supplicant
even though this is a desktop with no wifi or bt capability.
So I have
Information for package cinnamon: --------------------------------- Repository: Cinnamon Name: cinnamon Version: 2.3.0-1.1 Arch: x86_64 Vendor: obs://build.opensuse.org/X11 Installed: Yes Status: up-to-date Installed Size: 5.4 MiB Summary: A Linux Desktop featuring a tranditional layout Description: The Cinnamon Desktop provides advanced innovative features and a traditional user experience. The underlying technology is forked from gnome-shell and the desktop layout is closer to GNOME2. The emphasis is put on making users look and feel at home and provide them an easy to use and confortable experience.
I appreciate the comprehensive description, Anton. Adding a new DE to my 'daily workhorse' hasn't been on my radar at all. I was really just voicing support for Marcos' comments.
So, this is 2.3 What version do you have with Mint, Car?
I haven't upgraded the original Mint 14 installation, so it's probably still 1.6: http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_nadia_whatsnew.php (scroll down a bit, past MATE 1.4)
Did you already know how to do this or is there a guide somewhere?
"Bleedin' obvious, ain't it?" as someone once said.
Don't be snarky. I asked a sincere question and hadn't done any reading up on it at all. To reiterate, adding a new DE to my 'daily workhorse' has not been on my radar. I was drawn into the discussion by Marcos' comments and that's all. You gave a wonderfully complete answer, above, which I appreciate. Please don't demean it with unnecessary sarcasm.
No, really. Marco gave this http://it.opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon and I tried this http://opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon and BINGO!
Mind you, having already started up cinnamon and tried out various things it didn't tell me anything I hadn't already discovered.
Did you create a new user and sign into that account using Cinnamon for the first time?
Was the process seamless or did you have to fiddle around?
It depends what you mean by that. The first thing I did was change the background and font size so I could see what was on screen more clearly. That's me an my environment, so it may not really count.
I know 'fiddling around' can mean a lot of things. I really meant having to spend a lot of time getting things to open and run right or not crash and that kind of thing ... adjusting regular settings to suit your preferences is to be expected in any DE.
While In system settings I stepped though each item to see what was there and made some adjustments to see what happened.
As I said, a lot of what I though should happen, would have happened if this was KDE systemsettings and could be "OK/apply" never happened until I logged out and logged back in.
In the scheme of things, this is pretty minor. Related to your other question, where I wrote "stay out of the way," I meant it from the perspective that once I figure out how something works, it should just work that way consistently and not cause me to stop and think about what it's doing. When it's a habit, by definition, it should no longer require paying much attention.
When did you install it?
Friday night.
Have you encountered any issues, major or minor, since?
The biggest issue was that one with the "NoAccell".
I appreciate you taking time to respond, Anton. I might even 'bite the bullet' and install this version of Cinnamon just so I can compare what I find to Marcos' and your experiences. Thanks again! Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/20/2014 11:02 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
Did you already know how to do this or is there a guide somewhere?
"Bleedin' obvious, ain't it?" as someone once said. Don't be snarky. I asked a sincere question and hadn't done any reading up on it at all. To reiterate, adding a new DE to my 'daily workhorse' has not been on my radar. I was drawn into the discussion by Marcos' comments and that's all. You gave a wonderfully complete answer, above, which I appreciate. Please don't demean it with unnecessary sarcasm.
What you read as 'sarcasm' was meant as 'astonishment'. How else would you expect to install an application from a repository if not by using zypper or the "zypper function by another name" GUI in Yast? So of course its "Bleedin' obvious".
No, really. Marco gave this http://it.opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon and I tried this http://opensuse.org/Portal:Cinnamon and BINGO!
Mind you, having already started up cinnamon and tried out various things it didn't tell me anything I hadn't already discovered.
Did you create a new user and sign into that account using Cinnamon for the first time?
Excuse me? Why? How is that different from logging in with an existing account and using cinnamon for the fist time ... With that account?
Was the process seamless or did you have to fiddle around?
It depends what you mean by that. The first thing I did was change the background and font size so I could see what was on screen more clearly. That's me an my environment, so it may not really count.
I know 'fiddling around' can mean a lot of things. I really meant having to spend a lot of time getting things to open and run right or not crash and that kind of thing ... adjusting regular settings to suit your preferences is to be expected in any DE.
The closest thing to a 'crash' was that blitheration about hardware settings. Actually it was remarkably unclear and unhelpful. It was pure guesswork that I took it to mean that I should turn "NoAcell" off. And so, about 5 minutes later, the video locked up. I went back to having that annoying balloon permanently on screen. Its one reason I think lxde and xfce make better alternatives to the weight of KDE. But then as Felix points out, its easy enough to disable all the eye candy, and since I run KDE without that eye candy, why not?
While In system settings I stepped though each item to see what was there and made some adjustments to see what happened.
As I said, a lot of what I though should happen, would have happened if this was KDE systemsettings and could be "OK/apply" never happened until I logged out and logged back in.
In the scheme of things, this is pretty minor.
In *YOUR* scheme of things... In mine, I want the option of "cancel 'cos I really didn't mean that" and feedback in the here and now when possible -- as in if its possible with KDE and lxde and xfce then it should be possible with cinnamon.
Related to your other question, where I wrote "stay out of the way," I meant it from the perspective that once I figure out how something works, it should just work that way consistently and not cause me to stop and think about what it's doing. When it's a habit, by definition, it should no longer require paying much attention.
I keep saying "context is everything" and perhaps that applies here. Perhaps in a Gnomic context some of what goes on in system settings and what isn't there and things like the 'click on the top left corner to add more workspaces' are cultural norms in a Gnomic context but for someone coming from KDE (or even, dread the thought, Joe Sixpack's grandmother coming from a Windows 98 context) there is a lot of stopping and thinking required. Its part of learning an unfamiliar 'context'. Its why Grandma is reluctant to move to Linux even though she will still be using Thunderbird and Firefox. It the fear of having to deal with something different. That's what I meant by "Bleedin' obvious". It no different installing cinnamon than it was lxde of xfce, (or e16 for that matter), or even Thunderbird and Firefox or ... Yes, habits are as you say, but I can't imagine a UI that works differently by day of the week or phase of the moon so of course its consistent. Even the most lame and brain-damaged DE. Heck, I'm sure e17 will be consistent, but I dread learning it. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/18/2014 05:03 PM, Marco Calistri wrote:
Wow!
This is a real beautiful, fast and full featured Desktop Environment which I do not understand why it is not being installed as default or among the default ones in OpenSUSE.
I installed it with:
sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Cinnamon:/Factory/openSUSE_13... Cinnamon
And it is wonderful!
Regards,
Meh! More uninspiring Gnomeishness, with menus larger than any rational size. I suppose if we needed a lighter weight DE, and if OpenSuse had the balls to just walk away from Gnome, it might be ok, but realistically adding yet another Gnome Clone isn't that helping, its just adding more work for the devs already overburdened drying to get systemd fully integrated. -- Explain again the part about rm -rf / -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/20/2014 04:07 PM, John Andersen wrote:
Meh!
+1
More uninspiring Gnomeishness, with menus larger than any rational size.
+10 <== since its about 10 times the size it needs to be
I suppose if we needed a lighter weight DE, and if OpenSuse had the balls to just walk away from Gnome, it might be ok, but realistically adding yet another Gnome Clone isn't that helping, its just adding more work for the devs already overburdened drying to get systemd fully integrated.
I tried it. One think I consider important is alternative .... Well in KDE they are called 'virtual desktops'. Its not that they don't exist in Cinnamon, its that they are obscure and awkward. I click on the "2" and can't get it to switch. I had to go to google to find out how to add more and its highly obscure and unintuitive. It is not in the 'system settings' and alt-clicking or right-clicking on the "1" and "2" doesn't offer controls. In fact the UP of the 'system settings' is bloody awful. There's no "ok/apply/cancel" button, for example and some things you have to log out and log back in before they take effect --- only it doesn't tell you that. Maybe I'm too acclimatised to KDE but compared to the other Alt-Gnome DEs such as lxde it is very awkward. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:26:59 -0400 Anton Aylward wrote: <snipped>
I tried it. One think I consider important is alternative .... Well in KDE they are called 'virtual desktops'. Its not that they don't exist in Cinnamon, its that they are obscure and awkward. I click on the "2" and can't get it to switch. I had to go to google to find out how to add more and its highly obscure and unintuitive. It is not in the 'system settings' and alt-clicking or right-clicking on the "1" and "2" doesn't offer controls.
In fact the UP of the 'system settings' is bloody awful. There's no "ok/apply/cancel" button, for example and some things you have to log out and log back in before they take effect --- only it doesn't tell you that.
Maybe I'm too acclimatised to KDE but compared to the other Alt-Gnome DEs such as lxde it is very awkward.
We're obviously not talking about the same release (much less the distribution,) Anton, so I can't really comment on what you're seeing. What Marco and I were discussing was the fact that Cinnamon, at least in the implementations we've experienced elsewhere, has clearly already demonstrated that it could be a real contender for 'hearts and minds' out there. We're talking tangible, achievable potential, too, not long term pie in the sky potential. I think it'd be fantastic if openSUSE were to put even a modest fraction of the time and effort into it as they did into GNOME2. I really don't think it needs all that much to give the other DEs out there a real run for their money (IMHO, of course!) regards, Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carl Hartung wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:26:59 -0400 Anton Aylward wrote:
<snipped>
I tried it. One think I consider important is alternative .... Well in KDE they are called 'virtual desktops'. Its not that they don't exist in Cinnamon, its that they are obscure and awkward. I click on the "2" and can't get it to switch. I had to go to google to find out how to add more and its highly obscure and unintuitive. It is not in the 'system settings' and alt-clicking or right-clicking on the "1" and "2" doesn't offer controls.
In fact the UP of the 'system settings' is bloody awful. There's no "ok/apply/cancel" button, for example and some things you have to log out and log back in before they take effect --- only it doesn't tell you that.
Maybe I'm too acclimatised to KDE but compared to the other Alt-Gnome DEs such as lxde it is very awkward.
We're obviously not talking about the same release (much less the distribution,) Anton, so I can't really comment on what you're seeing.
What Marco and I were discussing was the fact that Cinnamon, at least in the implementations we've experienced elsewhere, has clearly already demonstrated that it could be a real contender for 'hearts and minds' out there. We're talking tangible, achievable potential, too, not long term pie in the sky potential.
I think it'd be fantastic if openSUSE were to put even a modest fraction of the time and effort into it as they did into GNOME2. I really don't think it needs all that much to give the other DEs out there a real run for their money (IMHO, of course!)
The entire gnome community seems to be entirely blind to the basic concept of the value of screen real-estate and how there are only so many pixels which can be displayed at a time...and gives everything a pixel footprint far bigger than it needs to be. just compare yast2-qt with yast2-gtk. The GTK implementation takes up far more room for fewer package listings, AND fewer items of information about said packages. And then there are factions withing the GNOME community who think that GTK is STILL to conservative in pixel-wastage.
regards,
Carl
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On 07/20/2014 05:15 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
Maybe I'm too acclimatised to KDE but compared to the other Alt-Gnome DEs such as lxde it is very awkward.
We're obviously not talking about the same release (much less the distribution,) Anton, so I can't really comment on what you're seeing.
This is the release from the repository that Marco mentioned earlier in this thread. Just like Marco
I installed it with:
sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Cinnamon:/Factory/openSUSE_13... Cinnamon
Marco gave the URL for the suse page in Italian. Removed the "it." from that URL and you get the English language one. Why, which one are you talking about Carl? After all, I'm running suse here so I would think it natural to install the version from a suse repository. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:24:09 -0400 Anton Aylward wrote: <snipped>
This is the release from the repository that Marco mentioned earlier in this thread.
Just like Marco
I installed it with:
sudo zypper ar http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/X11:/Cinnamon:/Factory/openSUSE_13... Cinnamon
Marco gave the URL for the suse page in Italian. Removed the "it." from that URL and you get the English language one.
Why, which one are you talking about Carl?
At the very beginning of this thread, in my first reply to Marco, I opened with "I'm extremely fond of Cinnamon on Mint,..." so I guess maybe you overlooked that. :-) Not to worry, though, since we actually /were/ talking about the same 'thing': Cinnamon. One implementation is complete (has 'polish,') is consistent and extremely stable, hence usable on a daily 'workhorse' system, the other maybe not so much (yet?) from what I've read.
After all, I'm running suse here so I would think it natural to install the version from a suse repository.
This is why I asked Marco the questions that I did. I wanted to know about his experience. I really don't have a spare box, not even a spare VM to play around on at the moment, nor the time. If it has obvious flaws and isn't ready for prime time without a lot of fiddling around, I simply have to pass right now. regards, Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:07:13 -0700 John Andersen wrote: <snipped>
Meh!
More uninspiring Gnomeishness, with menus larger than any rational size.
I suppose if we needed a lighter weight DE, and if OpenSuse had the balls to just walk away from Gnome, it might be ok, but realistically adding yet another Gnome Clone isn't that helping, its just adding more work for the devs already overburdened drying to get systemd fully integrated.
Out of curiosity, John, did you install it or just look at screenshots? Choice is what I love about Linux. On the surface, maybe Cinnamon doesn't appeal to you, esthetically, but the implementation on Mint that I have installed in parallel on this system is highly polished. What I mean by "polished" is everything 'just works.' I've found no surprises or hidden limitations or obvious breakage. Clearly, the people who put out that release knew what they were doing. I'm not so much after "looks" as I am functionality ... I really want the desktop to get out of my way and stay there most of the time. I do not want little oversights and irritating anomalies to interfere with my work. I want it to do what it's supposed to do, intuitively, and do so consistently. This is how I would describe my GNOME2/openSUSE11.4 installation, which was a real workhorse. There were some very subtle and consistent capabilities built into that environment. GNOME3 is literally impossible for me to use. It isn't compatible with my work requirements. Of all the possible GNOME2 replacement DE candidates I evaluated at the time -- and I looked at over a dozen -- Cinnamon was by far and away the closest thing I found. So "meh" if you want, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but Cinnamon can be just as 'polished' as I've described here, which is an enhancement to my productivity, and IMHO that sets a very high bar for the other DEs to follow. regards, Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/20/2014 04:57 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:
Of all the possible GNOME2 replacement DE candidates I evaluated at the time -- and I looked at over a dozen -- Cinnamon was by far and away the closest thing I found.
Possibly you and I have different ideas of 'get out of the way' for a DE. If I compare by that criteria then xfce is less intrusive, less there to have to deal with, than Cinnamon. In fact there is so much missing from xfce for someone used to KDE that it feels like reverting to a pedal cycle after driving a ... Well, I realise KDE could be compared to a modern luxury car, but the gap isn't *that* great. Perhaps xfce need to be the basic 1960s LADA or 2CV, manual everything, no automatics or banks of stuff on the console to fiddle with. In many ways Cinnamon feels more like reverting to Windows XP or possibly W/7. (Ah, I see there's a theme for that!) where you have to reboot or log out/in for many things to take effect. The most annoying thing I found with Cinnamon was that it demanded certain things of the hardware config/X config or you got a message on the top right (which never seemed to want to go away) telling you that you hardware wasn't up to snuff. I run with "NoAccell" to get around a bug in the nouveau driver with my hardware. Cinnamon doesn't like that. If I turn Accell on Cinnamon likes that but after a few minutes my system hangs. I don't get this hassle with KDE, lxde or xfce. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:43:33 -0400 Anton Aylward wrote: <snipped>
Possibly you and I have different ideas of 'get out of the way' for a DE.
This is a cruical point. I don't mean 'minimalist,' I mean highly polished and consistent, predictable, well thought out and equally well implemented ... not a lot of 'rough edges'. IOW, I want to forget that I'm using it so I can focus all my attention on my work. There isn't a day that goes by that I'm not annoyed by things that 'just worked' in GNOME2, that incidentally 'just work' in Cinnamon, and that are only 99% implemented in KDE4: [Aside: My methodology relies heavily upon using consistent window sizes across all desktops ... not all one size, mind you, but specific sizes. As in Legos, they're standardized because they conveniently 'snap together' and rearrange easily as my work requirements change. See here: https://www.cehartung.com/dl/20140720-desktop.png] I run many terminals, as you can see. In GNOME2 (and Cinnamon,) I "Ctrl+Minus Sign" four times, move the window into position and move on to my next window. In KDE4, I "Ctrl+Minus Sign" four times then shrink the window to match the reduced font size. In GNOME2 (and Cinnamon,) you can open up the next terminal from the open one and it already matches both the window size and font -- no fuss, no muss. In KDE4, the window size you get is a crap shoot and you always have to "Ctrl+Minus Sign" to reduce the font size. (Meh, indeed...) When I send a terminal from one desktop to another, it invariably shrinks down so it's just large enough to display the prompt. I have to place one corner where I want it and then stretch the window out again to it's former size -- which, by the way, I can never get back to the original without first 'snapping' vertically and then horizontally to another window as I resize it. This can only be avoided by setting 'On all desktops' first, switching to the target desktop, then setting the window back to 'Not on all desktops.' While this does manage to preserve window size, it is much more time consuming and convoluted than simply right-clicking the title bar and selecting 'send to' a desktop. Here's another one... I can 'anchor' the top edge of a window to the bottom edge of another window that is rolled-up ('shaded' - meaning just the title bar is visible) and I can then stretch the bottom edge of that window down until it 'snaps to' the bottom of the display, but I cannot do the reverse: 'snap' the bottom edge of a window to the bottom of the display and stretch the top _up_ and snap it to another window -- shaded up or not. The behavior is like trying to push two like poles of two magnets together ... it absolutely will not be coached into proper position. You have to reduce the window height, anchor it at the top and then stretch the bottom down, and this is consistent. Oh, then there's the issue of always opening up windows at the top left corner of the display (or of the 'available desktop space') so they must be dragged across two displays into position. In GNOME2 (and Cinnamon,) windows virtually always open at the exact size and position as when last closed. Okay, time for me to go back to bed now. There's a few items for you to ponder G'night! Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Anton Aylward -
Carl Hartung -
Dirk Gently -
Felix Miata -
John Andersen -
Marco Calistri