On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 05:48:34PM -0700, The Nice Spider wrote:
This is not a "'de-facto' standard". At least three of the most commonly-used mailing list managers (majordomo, mailman, ezmlm) do not use this "standard". In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the mailing lists which *do* follow this "standard" are in the minority, certainly in the UNIX world. You appear to have been "lucky" in the lists that you've picked.
yes. this is 'de-facto' standard. the most popular mailing list is yahoo groups, then here the 'de-facto' standard
Ah, so I see. Just because ONE mailing list manager does it, that means its a "de-facto standard"? Rubbish. Here's a wake-up call. Yahoo! Groups is NOT the most commonly used mailing list manager in the UNIX world. Most of them run on majordomo or mailman, and majordomo was around a long time before Yahoo! Groups. So it's actually Yahoo! who are deviating from the "standard". I would also question whether Yahoo! Groups is the most commonly used MLM overall. Remember, many companies use MLMs internally. Just because Yahoo! Groups might be the most commonly used among "free, general public interest" mailing lists, doesn't mean it's the most commonly used overall. Let's have a look at the mailing lists I'm on: SuSE (SLE, suse-security): ezmlm gEDA: Mailman IPCop (user, devel and cvs): Mailman Local LUG: Mailman Internal company: Internally developed, used to be majordomo This Is True: Lyris LDP: Mailman Local Freecycle group: Yahoo! Groups Yep, quite obvious that Yahoo! Groups is the de-facto standard. Go and join a few more Linux-related mailing lists, and you'll find that virtually all of them are based on Mailman or (occasionally) Majordomo. Yes, ezmlm is relatively uncommon, but lists which require unsubscription messages to be sent somewhere other than the list address are not. Majordomo and Mailman require them to be sent to <listname>-request@...
No, because not there is not always a common agreement on "how it should work". Reply-To: is a good example of this.
the maintener of this milist still retain his way which caused REPLY to the SENDER, not to the MILIST ADDRESS.
I'm not getting into a discussion on the rights and wrongs of this - it's been done over and over and over again, and isn't going to change. The fact is that it is set that way for a reason, and you should respect that decision if you want to use this service for which, after all, the list owner is paying.
Alternatively, read the header *OR* footer, use your brain for once, and learn to unsubscribe yourself properly. It's not difficult.
the maintener of this milist should learn and hear from users. please try to join yahoo groups, then you will understand what thing do in the way of this most popular mailing list, again the most popular is the 'de-facto' not 'de-jure'.
I'm in Yahoo! Groups on a couple of mailing lists. It's a heap of bovine excretia. It's full of advertising, my details are repeatedly spam-harvested, and if you lose your login details they're virtually impossible to recover - you can't re-register as it prevents you because it already knows your email address, it won't send you your password, and the "help" section is an endless mass of circular links which never end up in a "get help from a real person" link. If Yahoo! Groups is an example of what mailing list managers should be like, God help us.
as you can see, this mailing list have stupid SPAM technology, which we see many message stamped as SPAM but they are not spam actually. too many negative-false of spam in this milist but it's depend on the maintener to hear users voice or force user to follow they way, makes this is not a suggestion but a choice: take it or leave it.
Fine. Feel free to leave it. Goodbye. I do think there is a bit of a problem with the spam checking on this list, but that's a completely separate issue.
but i believe someday the maintener will see the 'de-facto' standard and follow this standard.
I hope not. By your definition, Windows is the de-facto standard operating system, and therefore everyone should be following that standard. So, why are you bothering with Linux? -- David Smith Work Email: Dave.Smith@st.com STMicroelectronics Home Email: David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk Bristol, England GPG Key: 0xF13192F2
David SMITH wrote:
Here's a wake-up call. Yahoo! Groups is NOT the most commonly used mailing list manager in the UNIX world. Most of them run on majordomo or mailman, and majordomo was around a long time before Yahoo! Groups. So it's actually Yahoo! who are deviating from the "standard".
Yahoo Groups used to be egroups.com and AFAICT, yahoo groups is actually using ezmlm behind the scene, also a somewhat popular MLM. And one shouldn't forget the granddad of all MLMs - listserv, which is probably still huffing and puffing somewhere.
I would also question whether Yahoo! Groups is the most commonly used MLM overall. Remember, many companies use MLMs internally.
Yeah, I think that's quite questionable too. /Per Jessen, Zürich
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Sorry for cutting everything away :-) But instead of talking about how or how not to unsubscribe, why not just unsubscribe somebody if he/she doesn't understand how to do it? on http://www.suse.com/en/private/support/online_help/mailinglists/ I read: if your "FROM" address and the subscription address differ, please indicate your subscription address as follows: <LISTNAME>-unsubscribe-<YOUR ADDRESS>@suse.com replacing the "@" character in your address with "=" as in the example below: suse-linux-e-unsubscribe-me=mydomain.com@suse.com So my suggestion is: when it happens again that somebody sends his or her unsibscription-wish to the list instead of actually unsubscribing, just send a mail as descibed above with the details of the ignoramus. Then he/she will get a confirmation e-mail, can hit reply and is out of the list. I just think: if you're annoyed by the fact, that your in-box receives useless usubscription-wishes, then what do you think that I feel receiving a whole thread about this every few days? So, next time somebody takes the wrong way to unsubscribe, *please* just send him or her a private message or act as suggested above. OK? thanks Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Switzerland professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com Madagascar special: http://www.sanic.ch
On Wed, Aug 09, 2006 at 12:27:31PM +0200, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Sorry for cutting everything away :-)
Ditto. ;-)
But instead of talking about how or how not to unsubscribe, why not just unsubscribe somebody if he/she doesn't understand how to do it?
Give a man a fish.... -- David Smith Work Email: Dave.Smith@st.com STMicroelectronics Home Email: David.Smith@ds-electronics.co.uk Bristol, England GPG Key: 0xF13192F2
On Aug 9, 2006, at 6:27 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
But instead of talking about how or how not to unsubscribe, why not just unsubscribe somebody if he/she doesn't understand how to do it?
'cause, last time I checked, only that individual can do it. Otherwise, I know a few people on other lists (and this one) I would like to get rid of. ;) And we keep forgetting, they can't or wont follow directions. They were told how to interact with the list when they signed up... T, G
participants (4)
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