Since it is obvious that the "to unsubscribe" footer does not appear in all e-mail clients, is it possible to make it visible for everyone?

oh come on now, its just laziness. i actually like this retardation level metering on the list. every subscriber gets welcome ans subscription info mails at the very beginning. in addition i wouldn't call mailing lists a beginners tool and noob level activity on the net. so pretty much everybody who uses mailing lists should be mentally capable of handling this rocket science near-brain-surgery technology pretty well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Is that it? I thought the problem was, that the confirmation e-mail could be classified as a junk mail by the spam filter, so the unsubscription is never confirmed. I've been bitten by this at least twice.

your reasoning doesn't make sense, does it? if the unsubscription confirmation mail never arrives at the subscriber or arrives in junk, why does the subscriber then send a failmail onto the list? excerpt from the mailinglist manual: ... if i don't get unsubscribed the proper way, why shouldn't i start spamming onto the list.... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-04-07 at 17:15 +0200, Jos van Kan wrote:

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your reasoning doesn't make sense, does it? if the unsubscription confirmation mail never arrives at the subscriber or arrives in junk, why does the subscriber then send a failmail onto the list?

Err.. because he knows no better? We're talking newbies, remember. *You* and *I* would take a look at the junk pile, but a newbie would not. Maybe he even does not know it is there to look at in the first place.

And not newbies. I noticed I was not getting email from certain senders, till I discovered my ISP had added spam filtering, sending spam to another folder on the server. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknbcZYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UTZQCfbJWm5KQIWRvUulum1DysCeed LA0Anj7W+GBU2M2zbkCmYRJFZ9bxiSGD =y2eb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tony Alfrey schreef:

cagsm wrote:

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On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Jide Ogunmekan wrote:

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unsubscribe

anybody already computed the avarage mean time of unsubscribe messages to the list? some graphs would be nice =D

Since it is obvious that the "to unsubscribe" footer does not appear in all e-mail clients, is it possible to make it visible for everyone?

Is that it? I thought the problem was, that the confirmation e-mail could be classified as a junk mail by the spam filter, so the unsubscription is never confirmed. I've been bitten by this at least twice. Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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On 4/7/2009 at 17:13, "Carlos E. R." wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday, 2009-04-07 at 07:49 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:

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Since it is obvious that the "to unsubscribe" footer does not appear in all e-mail clients, is it possible to make it visible for everyone?

Nop, too intrusive (1). Better change the mail client :-P

(1) If you change anything in the text of the email, instead of adding a signature block, you are modifying email, which would make cryptographic verification to fail, for instance, and would be impossible if email is not plain text (base64?)

just for arguments sake: a HTML mail is not plain text only. for the users on Factory list Petr Gajdos just made a good example [1] on how this breaks the addition of the unsubscribe footer ;) Just look at the mail 'Czech Packagers Meeting minutes" from today. You will miss the unsubscribe footer (but it is in the source). [1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-04/msg00051.html Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On Tuesday, 2009-04-07 at 07:49 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:

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Since it is obvious that the "to unsubscribe" footer does not appear in all e-mail clients, is it possible to make it visible for everyone?

Nop, too intrusive (1). Better change the mail client :-P

(1) If you change anything in the text of the email, instead of adding a signature block, you are modifying email, which would make cryptographic verification to fail, for instance, and would be impossible if email is not plain text (base64?)

I don't understand this. Do we not modify e-mail when we reply and re-post to the list? Also, I often get e-mail from people who use some (horrid) mail client or perhaps it is their ISP that adds some additional one-line advertisement which was certainly not part of their original e-mail. Is it not possible to do the same at the OpenSuse server? -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote: <snip>

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Also, I often get e-mail from people who use some (horrid) mail client or perhaps it is their ISP that adds some additional one-line advertisement which was certainly not part of their original e-mail. Is it not possible to do the same at the OpenSuse server?

And they do... but below everything, with a sig separator (dash-dash-space-newline), or as a new text part. Not above, nor without separator.

So if this is the case, I would expect that such a "tag" is visible in all clients, such as that produced by MS, otherwise these advertisements would be useless; they *must* be working with Outlook. So does the Suse server not have the same tool? What am I missing here (not trying to belabor the point, it's just that this issue occurs at least once a week)? -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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So if this is the case, I would expect that such a "tag" is visible in all clients, such as that produced by MS, otherwise these advertisements would be useless; they *must* be working with Outlook. So does the Suse server not have the same tool? What am I missing here (not trying to belabor the point, it's just that this issue occurs at least once a week)?

It displays in any client that works correctly - and by definition, those of M$ don't :-P

Just been reading this thread, I thought I'd make it known that M$ Outbreak does show the signature part just fine, so the idiot cannot hide behind that excuse. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 7. April 2009 21:10:45 schrieb Philip Dowie:

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So if this is the case, I would expect that such a "tag" is visible in all clients, such as that produced by MS, otherwise these advertisements would be useless; they *must* be working with Outlook. So does the Suse server not have the same tool? What am I missing here (not trying to belabor the point, it's just that this issue occurs at least once a week)?

It displays in any client that works correctly - and by definition, those of M$ don't :-P

Just been reading this thread, I thought I'd make it known that M$ Outbreak does show the signature part just fine, so the idiot cannot hide behind that excuse.

He's not an idiot and he's using Thunderbird on a Unix machine. Which as far as I know shows the signature part of a mail just fine. However there are different techniques to unsubscribe from a mailinglist, some require you to send a mail with unsubscribe in the subject, some want you to write to a special alias, others want to have a certain string (and in a second step an confirmation string) in the mail. So why not just ignore those mistakes? He'll probably have noticed that it didn't work, be a bit ashamed of himself and then figured out how to do it correctly. Which as a consequence means that he'll never read all those replies. So why? Why, do we always have so much replies to an unsuccessful unsubscribe process? Of course it seems funny, "haha, so hard to miss that info at the bottom? Boy ...". But after so many times that happens it's just tiering ... If he really has a problem he'll search in the wiki or write a mail to the mailing list (or if it's not to annoying just give up and keep receiving mails, but that's his own fault then). Regards Michael

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He's not an idiot and he's using Thunderbird on a Unix machine. Which as far as I know shows the signature part of a mail just fine.

And what client did you just write from? There is no "unsubscribe" line in your email.

looks like those folk who have cryptographic signatures don't get the line appended. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Bob S wrote:-

On Tuesday 07 April 2009 03:27:47 pm M. Skiba wrote:

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He's not an idiot and he's using Thunderbird on a Unix machine. Which as far as I know shows the signature part of a mail just fine.

And what client did you just write from? There is no "unsubscribe" line in your email.

There are but you'll have to look at the raw message sources to see them. The message was sent with a content type of multipart/signed that consisted of two sections, the first being a text/plain section followed by an application/pgp-signature section. The un-subscribe "signature" was added after the last MIME boundary and, while it's still there, it isn't displayed since it's "outside" the message body. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-NG @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~1Mkeys/s openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | | openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b | openSUSE 11.1 64b | openSUSE 10.3 PPC | RISC OS 3.6 | RISC OS 3.11 | TOS 4.02 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-04-08 at 00:37 -0400, Bob S wrote:

On Tuesday 07 April 2009 11:42:40 pm David Bolt wrote:

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There are but you'll have to look at the raw message sources to see them. The message was sent with a content type of multipart/signed that consisted of two sections, the first being a text/plain section followed by an application/pgp-signature section. The un-subscribe "signature" was added after the last MIME boundary and, while it's still there, it isn't displayed since it's "outside" the message body.

That could be a bug in mlmmj, or just an impossible situation.

You're right of course David, but what does that say? And who does all of that looking around on a list which averages 100 postings a day? Maybe the poor guy who was trying to unsubscribe falls into that category? I guess the system is'nt fool proof.

No, but you can then simply look up at the bottom of another email. Anyway, he doesn't seem to be around, so he did unsusbcribe. Not dumb, simply a mistake. We are just babbling about a non issue :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkncgs0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U0NACfRiejWLq+4B0ATR/t/64eLFUJ Pk8An2FkXudqRe2d0TF6yrqQ7T9yh7M1 =TGA1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Philip Dowie [04-08-09 15:52]:

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We are just babbling about a non issue :-p

But its been a good discussion, has it not?

Yes, it makes much sense in the archives, especially w/o a Subject: Very useful. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 07 April 2009 09:52:12 pm Bob S wrote:

On Tuesday 07 April 2009 03:27:47 pm M. Skiba wrote:

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It displays in any client that works correctly - and by definition, those of M$ don't :-P

Just been reading this thread, I thought I'd make it known that M$ Outbreak does show the signature part just fine, so the idiot cannot hide behind that excuse.

He's not an idiot and he's using Thunderbird on a Unix machine. Which as far as I know shows the signature part of a mail just fine.

And what client did you just write from? There is no "unsubscribe" line in your email.

Bob S

Yours: User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 His: User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 When message is highlighted press key "v" and you get whole message without any format that is applied by mail agent (KMail, Thunderbird), and you can find string "User-Agent:" followed by mail program name. People that use web mail usually don't have it. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org