[opensuse] SSD disks
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have. With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary. Does that sound like a reasonable plan? I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use? A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way? TIA, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Yup.
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
Treat it like a normal harddrive, yes. I have also been a laggard when it comes to switching - I use SSD mostly as cache devices in our storage servers, which has prolonged their usefulness no end. They are old and in dire need of upgrading were it not for SSD caching. Otherwise I have one desktop on SSD. I am planning to switch my mythtv database system to SSD, maybe even this weekend. The two new drives have just arrived today. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.1°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 05 Dec 2019 18:49:29 +0100 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Yup.
Having asked the question and got the same answer from everybody, I'm now thinking about ignoring the recommendations :) Why? Well if I do a new installation I'll have to set up all my custom installed software again - backups, wiki, TVH etc etc - and am sure to forget something. So I may do a new install of 15.1 as a test to make sure it works on the new hardware and I'm familiar with whatever foibles there are, but then I think I'll upgrade the old system, which leads to two more questions: (1) is there an approved procedure for converting an old multi-subvolume btrfs layout to a more modern one? (2) is there anything special to look out for when copying a system from an HDD to an SSD (the PC uses EFI boot)?
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
Treat it like a normal harddrive, yes. I have also been a laggard when it comes to switching - I use SSD mostly as cache devices in our storage servers, which has prolonged their usefulness no end. They are old and in dire need of upgrading were it not for SSD caching.
Yeah, that's my only previous experience. SSD cache turned a ZFS fileserver from totally unusable to quite a nice piece of kit. But somebody else did the admin.
Otherwise I have one desktop on SSD. I am planning to switch my mythtv database system to SSD, maybe even this weekend. The two new drives have just arrived today.
Good luck! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/2019 21.26, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Thu, 05 Dec 2019 18:49:29 +0100 Per Jessen <> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
Having asked the question and got the same answer from everybody, I'm now thinking about ignoring the recommendations :)
Why? Well if I do a new installation I'll have to set up all my custom installed software again - backups, wiki, TVH etc etc - and am sure to forget something. So I may do a new install of 15.1 as a test to make sure it works on the new hardware and I'm familiar with whatever foibles there are, but then I think I'll upgrade the old system, which leads to two more questions: (1) is there an approved procedure for converting an old multi-subvolume btrfs layout to a more modern one?
No :-(
(2) is there anything special to look out for when copying a system from an HDD to an SSD (the PC uses EFI boot)?
That trim is enabled, and how to do it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXena4QAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1URIAJ4hmwz8yAqjkbfLxyxpWJb1S6/6/wCfdiGxpoZGa1a+KDf5qDWg+6PHQlI= =asLr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
Otherwise I have one desktop on SSD. I am planning to switch my mythtv database system to SSD, maybe even this weekend. The two new drives have just arrived today.
Good luck!
Yeah, it's bit of a bigger project. My mythtv setup is seven years old, and I need to upgrade frontend and backends at the same time. I expect to set up a parallel system, with a new frontend on a Raspi, and then slowly migrate and decommission the old hardware. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-1.0°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/2019 18.49, Per Jessen wrote: ...
Treat it like a normal harddrive, yes. I have also been a laggard when it comes to switching - I use SSD mostly as cache devices in our storage servers, which has prolonged their usefulness no end. They are old and in dire need of upgrading were it not for SSD caching.
How do you do that? A year ago I searched for that, found two projects, one was abandoned, the other was way too complicated. What do you use? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXeu8igAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1cUeAJ4hDnEhRxi72kkL39/W4Wi0V4E5eACggmJeqwStGWIYgZqYeRH6h8tdW2I= =O4gb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 05/12/2019 18.49, Per Jessen wrote:
...
Treat it like a normal harddrive, yes. I have also been a laggard when it comes to switching - I use SSD mostly as cache devices in our storage servers, which has prolonged their usefulness no end. They are old and in dire need of upgrading were it not for SSD caching.
How do you do that? A year ago I searched for that, found two projects, one was abandoned, the other was way too complicated. What do you use?
There are essentially two ways - with "bcache" or with "lvmcache". There may be others, those are the two I am aware of. For the storage servers I use lvmcache. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 09.01, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 05/12/2019 18.49, Per Jessen wrote:
...
Treat it like a normal harddrive, yes. I have also been a laggard when it comes to switching - I use SSD mostly as cache devices in our storage servers, which has prolonged their usefulness no end. They are old and in dire need of upgrading were it not for SSD caching.
How do you do that? A year ago I searched for that, found two projects, one was abandoned, the other was way too complicated. What do you use?
There are essentially two ways - with "bcache" or with "lvmcache". There may be others, those are the two I am aware of. For the storage servers I use lvmcache.
I assume that one is tied to using lvm, and I never use it, so that's why I did not consider it. About bcache, I have this in my notes: Linux: bcache. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcache «The design of dm-cache requires three physical storage devices (containing actual data, cache data and metadata) for the creation of one hybrid volume. Cache policies, in the form of separate modules, determine the way caching is actually performed.» This paragraph is missing now in the wikipedia, but it caused me not trying and considering it difficult. Three devices! Maybe it is now easier. Unfortunately, my SSD is now committed to being "/", so it's too late. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iFwEARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe48UQAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1U9DAJID/NfmfsXclMODWAY0rPm+J9QYAJ9lyAjdV3yurLfLwTVm+CXOetacug== =AiRb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 09/12/2019 09.01, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 05/12/2019 18.49, Per Jessen wrote:
...
Treat it like a normal harddrive, yes. I have also been a laggard when it comes to switching - I use SSD mostly as cache devices in our storage servers, which has prolonged their usefulness no end. They are old and in dire need of upgrading were it not for SSD caching.
How do you do that? A year ago I searched for that, found two projects, one was abandoned, the other was way too complicated. What do you use?
There are essentially two ways - with "bcache" or with "lvmcache". There may be others, those are the two I am aware of. For the storage servers I use lvmcache.
I assume that one is tied to using lvm, and I never use it, so that's why I did not consider it.
Makes sense.
About bcache, I have this in my notes:
Linux: bcache. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcache
«The design of dm-cache requires three physical storage devices (containing actual data, cache data and metadata) for the creation of one hybrid volume. Cache policies, in the form of separate modules, determine the way caching is actually performed.»
This paragraph is missing now in the wikipedia, but it caused me not trying and considering it difficult. Three devices!
Maybe it is now easier. Unfortunately, my SSD is now committed to being "/", so it's too late.
You'll probably also want to consider if you have any need. Back when projects like bcache started, I think you got some impressive speed-ups, but these days on a desktop system on SSD, there is nothing gained. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 14.51, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
...
You'll probably also want to consider if you have any need. Back when projects like bcache started, I think you got some impressive speed-ups, but these days on a desktop system on SSD, there is nothing gained.
I have a small system SSD, but relatively huge rotating rust for data. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe5TXgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1aQMAKCKBKcsuoVF3GeHWo8pONJRKuLlqgCbB/OBFR810CtzVY3XWyvdBiGFzOw= =O/sA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 09:01:37 +0100 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 05/12/2019 18.49, Per Jessen wrote:
...
Treat it like a normal harddrive, yes. I have also been a laggard when it comes to switching - I use SSD mostly as cache devices in our storage servers, which has prolonged their usefulness no end. They are old and in dire need of upgrading were it not for SSD caching.
How do you do that? A year ago I searched for that, found two projects, one was abandoned, the other was way too complicated. What do you use?
There are essentially two ways - with "bcache" or with "lvmcache". There may be others, those are the two I am aware of. For the storage servers I use lvmcache.
Interesting. I do use LVM so I could do the same. There's a good article at: http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2017/07/19/bcache-and-lvmcache/ That seems to suggest it may be worth the extra effort of configuring bcache IIUC. I might have a go with my new SSD; it seems like a sensible way to use part of it. One difference seems to be that you can add an SSD cache to a populated LVM filesystem, whereas bcache needs you to create a new cached filesystem, I think. Ah, PS - the comments seem to indicate some potential problems. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/12/2019 à 18:09, Dave Howorth a écrit :
That seems to suggest it may be worth the extra effort of configuring bcache IIUC. I might have a go with my new SSD; it seems like a sensible way to use part of it.
One difference seems to be that you can add an SSD cache to a populated LVM filesystem, whereas bcache needs you to create a new cached filesystem, I think.
I tried bcache and *hated* it :-(. All special filesystems, hard to configure... For some time now I'm all ssd in my main computer and voilà, no need to cache :-) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
Interesting. I do use LVM so I could do the same. There's a good article at:
http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2017/07/19/bcache-and-lvmcache/
That seems to suggest it may be worth the extra effort of configuring bcache IIUC. I might have a go with my new SSD; it seems like a sensible way to use part of it.
One difference seems to be that you can add an SSD cache to a populated LVM filesystem, whereas bcache needs you to create a new cached filesystem, I think.
The choice of lvmcache was easy - we're using lvm anyway (of course), and it was so easy to add to existing systems. I'm not sure exactly when we did it, it was at least a year ago. The SSD are relatively small - 240Gb I think. Not at all expensive either. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 18:36:48 +0100 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
Interesting. I do use LVM so I could do the same. There's a good article at:
http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2017/07/19/bcache-and-lvmcache/
That seems to suggest it may be worth the extra effort of configuring bcache IIUC. I might have a go with my new SSD; it seems like a sensible way to use part of it.
One difference seems to be that you can add an SSD cache to a populated LVM filesystem, whereas bcache needs you to create a new cached filesystem, I think.
The choice of lvmcache was easy - we're using lvm anyway (of course), and it was so easy to add to existing systems. I'm not sure exactly when we did it, it was at least a year ago. The SSD are relatively small - 240Gb I think. Not at all expensive either.
Given what the comments say about losing the entire filesystem if the cache drive dies, and inability to take backups, have you found any solutions? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/12/2019 18.49, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 18:36:48 +0100 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
Interesting. I do use LVM so I could do the same. There's a good article at:
http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2017/07/19/bcache-and-lvmcache/
That seems to suggest it may be worth the extra effort of
configuring bcache IIUC. I might have a go with my new SSD; it seems like a sensible way to use part of it.
One difference seems to be that you can add an SSD cache to a populated LVM filesystem, whereas bcache needs you to create a new cached filesystem, I think.
The choice of lvmcache was easy - we're using lvm anyway (of course), and it was so easy to add to existing systems. I'm not sure exactly when we did it, it was at least a year ago. The SSD are relatively small - 240Gb I think. Not at all expensive either.
Given what the comments say about losing the entire filesystem if the cache drive dies, and inability to take backups, have you found any solutions?
The wikipedia mentions another type of bcache that is being developed, that works at the filesystem level instead of the device level (bcachefs). «History bcache was first announced by Kent Overstreet in July 2010, as a completely working Linux kernel module, though at its early beta stage.[7] The development continued for almost two years, until May 2012, at which point bcache reached its production-ready state.[4] It was merged into the Linux kernel mainline in kernel version 3.10, released on June 30, 2013.[8][9] Overstreet has since been developing the file system bcachefs, based on ideas first developed in bcache that he said began "evolving ... into a full blown, general-purpose POSIX filesystem".[10] He describes bcache as a "prototype" for the ideas that became bcachefs and intends bcachefs to replace bcache.[11] He officially announced bcachefs in 2015,[12] and as of 2018 has been submitting it for consideration for inclusion in the mainline Linux kernel.[13] » -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Dave Howorth wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 18:36:48 +0100 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
Interesting. I do use LVM so I could do the same. There's a good article at:
http://strugglers.net/~andy/blog/2017/07/19/bcache-and-lvmcache/
That seems to suggest it may be worth the extra effort of configuring bcache IIUC. I might have a go with my new SSD; it seems like a sensible way to use part of it.
One difference seems to be that you can add an SSD cache to a populated LVM filesystem, whereas bcache needs you to create a new cached filesystem, I think.
The choice of lvmcache was easy - we're using lvm anyway (of course), and it was so easy to add to existing systems. I'm not sure exactly when we did it, it was at least a year ago. The SSD are relatively small - 240Gb I think. Not at all expensive either.
Given what the comments say about losing the entire filesystem if the cache drive dies, and inability to take backups, have you found any solutions?
Yes, snapshot'ing is not supported, I know. My initial reaction to the idea of losing the entire fileystems - if that were a genuine problem, no one would be using lvmcache. Should be easy to reproduce though. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/2019 18.30, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Yes.
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way?
Some brands ship with software for the ssd. One says it can assign unpartioned space to use a pool of sectors for recycling or whatever it is called. I have not used it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXelJQQAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1a/gAKCQRKcoPHoONsMrBW+EtG9rN9YdOQCdEa0131EXwAZ0GIGSg/2ds+mHxvo= =cTqk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:15:31 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 05/12/2019 18.30, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Yes.
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Ah, didn't know that. Do you have a link to an explanation? I'll probably use btrfs anyway, but it would be nice to understand.
A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way?
Some brands ship with software for the ssd. One says it can assign unpartioned space to use a pool of sectors for recycling or whatever it is called. I have not used it.
Are you saying you would buy a different brand instead? Too late :)
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/2019 21.18, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:15:31 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Ah, didn't know that. Do you have a link to an explanation? I'll probably use btrfs anyway, but it would be nice to understand.
No, I don't have an explanation, I just know it does. Probably the wikipedia says something (the word ssd appears twice in the article). For instance, I can see in the system a btrfs-trim.timer and btrfs-trim.service and btrfs-trim.sh.
A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way?
Some brands ship with software for the ssd. One says it can assign unpartioned space to use a pool of sectors for recycling or whatever it is called. I have not used it.
Are you saying you would buy a different brand instead? Too late :)
No, it is just a comment. This moment, I don't remember which of my three disks came with it. Each a different brand, I think. I have not used it, must be done in Windows. Anyway, I do try to leave some space not partitioned. I don't know if that's enough for the firmware to know it can use it or not. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXenaLgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1fjAAJ9chNT5tHljf5Y9dbeXQHrA/sKeKACfcCJ71YCVWWE4p7+/Q+Zlyd6nhQI= =vxap -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Ah, didn't know that. Do you have a link to an explanation? I'll probably use btrfs anyway, but it would be nice to understand.
No, I don't have an explanation, I just know it does. Probably the wikipedia says something (the word ssd appears twice in the article).
For instance, I can see in the system a btrfs-trim.timer and btrfs-trim.service and btrfs-trim.sh.
Yes, much like the fstrim-ditto for other filesystems. # systemctl status fstrim.timer ● fstrim.timer - Discard unused blocks once a week Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/fstrim.timer; enabled; vendor preset: enabled) Active: active (waiting) since Fri 2019-11-29 16:52:23 CET; 6 days ago Trigger: Mon 2019-12-09 00:00:00 CET; 2 days left Docs: man:fstrim -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-0.9°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 7:34 AM Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Ah, didn't know that. Do you have a link to an explanation? I'll probably use btrfs anyway, but it would be nice to understand.
No, I don't have an explanation,
All that this "optimization" does is to change block group allocation algorithm for meta data. When this "optimization" is enabled, btrfs will prefer to allocate new block group instead of filling existing block group. This does not do anything really useful with modern SSD that have internal FTL anyway and can actually lead to premature out of space condition. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/12/2019 11.18, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 7:34 AM Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Ah, didn't know that. Do you have a link to an explanation? I'll probably use btrfs anyway, but it would be nice to understand.
No, I don't have an explanation,
All that this "optimization" does is to change block group allocation algorithm for meta data. When this "optimization" is enabled, btrfs will prefer to allocate new block group instead of filling existing block group. This does not do anything really useful with modern SSD that have internal FTL anyway and can actually lead to premature out of space condition.
Ah, that's interesting. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXepHCAAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1Uf2AJ4nAGCEpFjs+wEEVgahCeU7aipUxwCfS405U2jVCUMYi0nBihj5xP15pko= =aSyx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/12/2019 13:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Isn't there any other (Linux) file system that is optimized for SSD? Does it make any difference if the SSD is a NVMe rather than a 3.5" ? https://blog.min.io/s3-benchmark-minio-on-nvme/ I've voiced objections to the principles of design for BtrFS, Ext4, ReiserFS and XFS. None of them the supporters will take seriously since they zre more to do with philosophy of architecture and coding than of deployment. I haven't looked at F2FS, and it isn't in my current kernel. neither is Resiser4FS. https://www.maketecheasier.com/best-linux-filesystem-for-ssd/ Solid-state drives are the new normal, but for some reason many Linux users are still unsure of what filesystems to go with, or even tweak them for better results. This is a shame. It is my hope that as solid-state drives become more prevalent on Linux, better filesystem choices within installers will follow. And from a year ago ... https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/best-ssd-friendly-file-syste... Then there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NILFS which is in my kernel. But SUSE is antagonistic to some of these https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenSUSE-FS-Blacklist What's the old saying ... "in your dreams!" -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/12/2019 14.27, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/12/2019 13:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Isn't there any other (Linux) file system that is optimized for SSD? Does it make any difference if the SSD is a NVMe rather than a 3.5" ?
...
But SUSE is antagonistic to some of these https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenSUSE-FS-Blacklist
Because
they are unsecure. About f2fs, IIRC a combination of an f2fs media with the "wrong" version of the driver may crash the kernel and/or corrupt the media. Thus it can not be enabled by default. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 09/12/2019 08:56, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 09/12/2019 14.27, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/12/2019 13:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Isn't there any other (Linux) file system that is optimized for SSD? Does it make any difference if the SSD is a NVMe rather than a 3.5" ?
...
But SUSE is antagonistic to some of these https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenSUSE-FS-Blacklist
Because
they are unsecure.
Surely that is a moving target?
About f2fs, IIRC a combination of an f2fs media with the "wrong" version of the driver may crash the kernel and/or corrupt the media. Thus it can not be enabled by default.
-- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/12/2019 21.04, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 09/12/2019 08:56, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 09/12/2019 14.27, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/12/2019 13:15, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I use ext4/xfs, perhaps reiserfs on my ssd disks, just the same as others. However, btrfs has optimizations for ssd.
Isn't there any other (Linux) file system that is optimized for SSD? Does it make any difference if the SSD is a NVMe rather than a 3.5" ?
...
But SUSE is antagonistic to some of these
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenSUSE-FS-Blacklist
Because
they are unsecure.
Surely that is a moving target?
As in adding more to the list? Sure >:-P
About f2fs, IIRC a combination of an f2fs media with the "wrong" version of the driver may crash the kernel and/or corrupt the media. Thus it can not be enabled by default.
Which is very unfortunate. f2fs was thought to be ideal for sticks, and would support Linux permissions. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Anton Aylward wrote:
But SUSE is antagonistic to some of these https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenSUSE-FS-Blacklist
You only have to load the module(s) manually, the blacklisting only prevents the automagic load. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.6°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/12/2019 09:28, Per Jessen wrote:
Anton Aylward wrote:
But SUSE is antagonistic to some of these https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OpenSUSE-FS-Blacklist
You only have to load the module(s) manually, the blacklisting only prevents the automagic load.
Yes, but if I were to do a mkfs.nilfs2 and make the entry in the .etc.fstab ... and add the module in /etc/modules-load.d/ -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-12-09 08:27 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
And from a year ago ... https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/best-ssd-friendly-file-syste...
That article mentions disabling the journal on EXT4. Can that be done on a per file system basis, so that flash devices mount with it off? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/12/2019 15.28, James Knott wrote:
On 2019-12-09 08:27 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
And from a year ago ...
https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/best-ssd-friendly-file-syste...
That article mentions disabling the journal on EXT4. Can that be done on a per file system basis, so that flash devices mount with it off?
Certainly. But the trick is to format the ext4 on the stick without a journal. From <http://www.sysresccd.org/Sysresccd-manual-en_How_to_install_SystemRescueCd_on_an_USB-stick> «If you are using SystemRescueCD-1.2 or more recent, it's recommended that you use an ext4 filesystem with the journal turned off (this is possible with Linux >= 2.6.29). USB sticks are Flash filesystems and this type of memory only supports a limited number of writes. Journaling filesystems will make many writes at the same location (where the journal is stored). Therefore, to extend the lifespan of the memory we should limit the number of writes. Here is how to use ext4 with the journaling turned off:» mke2fs -t ext4 -O ^has_journal /dev/sdXY Note 2016-03-12: tune2fs -O ^has_journal <ext3/4-device>. «You could also use ext2 but it does not support extents, and then it requires more accesses to read/write large files to the disk.» -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 2019-12-09 09:52 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That article mentions disabling the journal on EXT4. Can that be done on a per file system basis, so that flash devices mount with it off? Certainly.
But the trick is to format the ext4 on the stick without a journal.
I just looked at Partitioner and see "Use Journal" is an option. I'll have to remember that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:03, James Knott a écrit :
On 2019-12-09 09:52 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That article mentions disabling the journal on EXT4. Can that be done on a per file system basis, so that flash devices mount with it off? Certainly.
But the trick is to format the ext4 on the stick without a journal.
I just looked at Partitioner and see "Use Journal" is an option. I'll have to remember that.
dunno if it have any use in modern hardware. ssd firmware should allocate sectors itself to prevent wearing. IMHO, don't worry and go ahead. The time the disk wear you will have an other, faster one... jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 16.07, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:03, James Knott a écrit :
On 2019-12-09 09:52 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That article mentions disabling the journal on EXT4. Can that be done on a per file system basis, so that flash devices mount with it off? Certainly.
But the trick is to format the ext4 on the stick without a journal.
I just looked at Partitioner and see "Use Journal" is an option. I'll have to remember that.
dunno if it have any use in modern hardware. ssd firmware should allocate sectors itself to prevent wearing.
Not on sticks. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe5jiAAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1S6ZAJ4w29c1Qi+G896rlV0IhXSQciTSEACgiA0MQqA2TwZjJ80SFCDhc52TsoE= =K9QF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-12-09 10:08 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I just looked at Partitioner and see "Use Journal" is an option. I'll have to remember that.
dunno if it have any use in modern hardware. ssd firmware should allocate sectors itself to prevent wearing. Not on sticks.
It would be nice if the journal could be turned off automagically, when formatting those sticks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:08, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
dunno if it have any use in modern hardware. ssd firmware should allocate sectors itself to prevent wearing.
Not on sticks.
* I don't see one using a stick often enough to wear the stick * on very fast/large sticks I guess there is a firmware is there anybody that wear a stick, here? (real question) thanks jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 16.15, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:08, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
dunno if it have any use in modern hardware. ssd firmware should allocate sectors itself to prevent wearing.
Not on sticks.
* I don't see one using a stick often enough to wear the stick
* on very fast/large sticks I guess there is a firmware
is there anybody that wear a stick, here?
(real question)
I am very careful with my sticks. I only copy files to them, never _work_ with them. But yes, I have one failed stick which I inherited from a Windows user (it failed when I was using it), and have Windows friends with failed sticks - because they _use_ them. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe5m7QAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1eXcAJ9az3FCYoDU4dxnr7hiV0JcP5yadgCfWrse+mZSqlnucoGprJmiesrUwF4= =501i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-12-09 10:23 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
is there anybody that wear a stick, here?
(real question) I am very careful with my sticks. I only copy files to them, never _work_ with them. But yes, I have one failed stick which I inherited from a Windows user (it failed when I was using it), and have Windows friends with failed sticks - because they_use_ them.
I've seen some fail. They were cheap junk my ISP included with the cable modems. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:23, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I am very careful with my sticks. I only copy files to them, never _work_ with them. But yes, I have one failed stick which I inherited from a Windows user (it failed when I was using it), and have Windows friends with failed sticks - because they _use_ them.
I have had broken pens, but not that often and certainly not for excessive use, they are much too slow, and much too unreliable. what I have had too often is copy a file, eject, go to the meeting and there there is nothing on the pen... not later than yesterday and cleanly umounted! jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 18:26:53 +0100 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:23, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I am very careful with my sticks. I only copy files to them, never _work_ with them. But yes, I have one failed stick which I inherited from a Windows user (it failed when I was using it), and have Windows friends with failed sticks - because they _use_ them.
I have had broken pens, but not that often and certainly not for excessive use, they are much too slow, and much too unreliable.
what I have had too often is copy a file, eject, go to the meeting and there there is nothing on the pen... not later than yesterday
and cleanly umounted!
maybe you need to go back to the old 'magic': sync;sync;umount ?
jdd
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/12/2019 à 18:50, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 18:26:53 +0100
what I have had too often is copy a file, eject, go to the meeting and there there is nothing on the pen... not later than yesterday
and cleanly umounted!
maybe you need to go back to the old 'magic':
sync;sync;umount ?
may be, but usually done in Dolphin... and same problem with windows (but less often given I nearly never use windows :-) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:35, James Knott a écrit :
On 2019-12-09 10:15 AM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
is there anybody that wear a stick, here?
I carry one in my pocket. ;-)
me to My english is not what I would like it to be :-( jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/09/2019 07:15 AM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:08, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
dunno if it have any use in modern hardware. ssd firmware should allocate sectors itself to prevent wearing.
Not on sticks.
* I don't see one using a stick often enough to wear the stick
* on very fast/large sticks I guess there is a firmware
is there anybody that wear a stick, here?
(real question)
FWIW, I installed four Intel ssdsa2sh064g1gc 64-GB SSD's in two servers in 2008, eleven years ago. I connected them in pairs to 3-Ware raid controllers and configured them as RAID-1 mirrors. I used the mirrors as the root partitions. I was aware of the write issue, but was willing to take the chance. Both systems are still up and running, 24/7, for all of those eleven years without a hiccup. I'm not sure if the RAID controller is doing load-leveling on its own, but I don't think it is. I've used lots of SSD's since then as root partitions in servers, desktops, and laptops, without issue. I can't recall a single SSD failure, all with the EXT4 (with journal) filesystem. I have seen one fail, but that wasn't in any of my systems. I have seen quite a few (dozen or so?) failed spinning disks. Of course, YMMV Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 17.49, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
On 12/09/2019 07:15 AM, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 09/12/2019 à 16:08, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
dunno if it have any use in modern hardware. ssd firmware should allocate sectors itself to prevent wearing.
Not on sticks.
* I don't see one using a stick often enough to wear the stick
* on very fast/large sticks I guess there is a firmware
is there anybody that wear a stick, here?
(real question)
FWIW, I installed four Intel ssdsa2sh064g1gc 64-GB SSD's in two servers in 2008, eleven years ago. I connected them in pairs to 3-Ware raid controllers and configured them as RAID-1 mirrors. I used the mirrors as the root partitions. I was aware of the write issue, but was willing to take the chance. Both systems are still up and running, 24/7, for all of those eleven years without a hiccup. I'm not sure if the RAID controller is doing load-leveling on its own, but I don't think it is.
I've used lots of SSD's since then as root partitions in servers, desktops, and laptops, without issue. I can't recall a single SSD failure, all with the EXT4 (with journal) filesystem.
I have seen one fail, but that wasn't in any of my systems. I have seen quite a few (dozen or so?) failed spinning disks.
Of course, YMMV
SSDs are not sticks. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe6ptwAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1blHAJsHR5++HIQEeF3AHWL87wog0rRvCwCfXI3MB/he1zYBVugNLZp0YOR2R70= =V9O3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/9/19 12:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
SSDs are not sticks.
I thought they both used NAND Flash memory, and both have the write limitations. Are sticks really fundamentally different from SSD's? Also BTW, I've been using a 256-GB "stick" on a desktop for years as tertiary backup device. Things like email, pki private keys, password databases, etc. get rsynced on a nightly basis. It's been solid for years. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Lew Wolfgang wrote:
On 12/9/19 12:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
SSDs are not sticks.
I thought they both used NAND Flash memory, and both have the write limitations. Are sticks really fundamentally different from SSD's?
Dunno about "fundamentally", the memory technology is essentially the same, but I have always assumed the SSD drive to be more resilient & more intelligent than the dumb stick or card. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 09/12/2019 à 22:28, Lew Wolfgang a écrit :
On 12/9/19 12:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
SSDs are not sticks.
I thought they both used NAND Flash memory, and both have the write limitations. Are sticks really fundamentally different from SSD's?
who knows :-( USB*2* sticks are significantly slower, so I guess the speed of writes is to be much less and the number of writes also
Also BTW, I've been using a 256-GB "stick" on a desktop for years as tertiary backup device. Things like email, pki private keys, password databases, etc. get rsynced on a nightly basis. It's been solid for years.
if you really use then *for years* I guess they where extremely expensive and expect them to be solid... dunno for cheap one now. I hope usb3 fast disk a similar to sata ssd (not speaking of m2 pci nvme) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 22.28, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
On 12/9/19 12:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
SSDs are not sticks.
I thought they both used NAND Flash memory, and both have the write limitations. Are sticks really fundamentally different from SSD's?
Slower, less writes, no wear leveling... to my knowledge.
Also BTW, I've been using a 256-GB "stick" on a desktop for years as tertiary backup device. Things like email, pki private keys, password databases, etc. get rsynced on a nightly basis. It's been solid for years.
Probably an expensive one. I would use an SSD on USB for that task. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe96+QAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1fOwAJ9IJs1XQ3fROA9pVHyWlaDk9864CwCfR4KOLls9Ig/qvED99dgCcIQEOuw= =Uj1h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/10/19 3:01 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Also BTW, I've been using a 256-GB "stick" on a desktop for years as tertiary backup device. Things like email, pki private keys, password databases, etc. get rsynced on a nightly basis. It's been solid for years. Probably an expensive one. I would use an SSD on USB for that task.
I've got other backups going on, this one was just to make doubly sure, and to make it easy to load important stuff onto another system if necessary. I checked, and I purchased it in December of 2014. It's been getting nightly rsyncs since then. PNY Turbo 256GB USB 3.0 Flash Drive - P-FD256TBOP-GE It cost $70 then, but can be had now for $33.52 on Amazon. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 16.03, James Knott wrote:
On 2019-12-09 09:52 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That article mentions disabling the journal on EXT4. Can that be done on a per file system basis, so that flash devices mount with it off? Certainly.
But the trick is to format the ext4 on the stick without a journal.
I just looked at Partitioner and see "Use Journal" is an option. I'll have to remember that.
If you have ext4 formatted sticks, "tune" them. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe5jTgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1a5kAJ9J4foHwSSKlGxQbBAcXvFmnOez9ACfQWttCAbp0vaIy28FsxdLA0FW2p0= =vXU1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* James Knott <james.knott@jknott.net> [12-09-19 10:37]:
On 2019-12-09 10:08 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you have ext4 formatted sticks, "tune" them.
What do you mean by that???
man tune2fs -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 16.35, James Knott wrote:
On 2019-12-09 10:08 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you have ext4 formatted sticks, "tune" them.
What do you mean by that???
I gave the incantation in writing in my post for removing the journal. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe6qQwAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1S7oAJ9u6d5Q6BCDtujrGg+jl8ubL4bSgQCglnmY7Z4DDWBEYNNnrOieGjpzodQ= =gQRr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-12-09 03:10 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 09/12/2019 16.35, James Knott wrote:
On 2019-12-09 10:08 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you have ext4 formatted sticks, "tune" them. What do you mean by that??? I gave the incantation in writing in my post for removing the journal.
Do you mean this? tune2fs -O ^has_journal <ext3/4-device> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 21.18, James Knott wrote:
On 2019-12-09 03:10 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 09/12/2019 16.35, James Knott wrote:
On 2019-12-09 10:08 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
If you have ext4 formatted sticks, "tune" them. What do you mean by that??? I gave the incantation in writing in my post for removing the journal.
Do you mean this? tune2fs -O ^has_journal <ext3/4-device>
Yes. Mind, I don't remember doing it. But it is in the manual somewhere, and probably in the site I copied the text from. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe6t0wAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1bVSAJ9zED86QP0NLP18cVsNy6kTA+4nKwCfVti+XZlJD9gbJEeoRoj0nFRO7lw= =xdLn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-12-09 03:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes. Mind, I don't remember doing it. But it is in the manual somewhere, and probably in the site I copied the text from.
I just tried it and the device cannot be mounted. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/12/2019 21.41, James Knott wrote:
On 2019-12-09 03:25 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes. Mind, I don't remember doing it. But it is in the manual somewhere, and probably in the site I copied the text from.
I just tried it and the device cannot be mounted.
DAMN! :-( fsck? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe63/AAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1cRFAKCVB9o/7x6SMCYmuw41mV1Q2yZPUwCfeAFbz2jkLl/y0tQ/puOXh3wK1jg= =AlqC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2019-12-09 04:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I just tried it and the device cannot be mounted.
DAMN!:-(
fsck?
Yeah, I guess it could be fscked up. ;-) BTW, I reformated that drive with journal off. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op donderdag 5 december 2019 18:30:44 CET schreef Dave Howorth:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Yup. You can add the mountpoints during install, in the expert partitioner, even mount the 15.0 rootfs on /oldroot if you want. The installer will find the Leap 15.0 install on rust and add entries for it to GRUB2's config.
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
Like Per, I treat them like any HDD. I've been using SSD's since the time that my first one was 30GB at ~$400 . I increased RAM from 4 -> 16 GB in the same go at the desktop/server I had and the result was stunning. All data were still on spinning rust though. Also replaced ( slow ) spinning rust by SSD in laptops > 100 times. Makes old machines feel snappy again. In general, for any SSD > 128GB I tend to use btrfs, these days not even a separate /home on xfs or ext4. And you won't believe the number of times where that saved a user from the result of their own experiments.
A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way?
Never done this. Any docs on Crucial's site?
TIA, Dave
-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 05 Dec 2019 19:37:28 +0100 Knurpht-openSUSE <knurpht@opensuse.org> wrote:
Op donderdag 5 december 2019 18:30:44 CET schreef Dave Howorth:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Yup. You can add the mountpoints during install, in the expert partitioner, even mount the 15.0 rootfs on /oldroot if you want. The installer will find the Leap 15.0 install on rust and add entries for it to GRUB2's config.
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
Like Per, I treat them like any HDD. I've been using SSD's since the time that my first one was 30GB at ~$400 . I increased RAM from 4 -> 16 GB in the same go at the desktop/server I had and the result was stunning. All data were still on spinning rust though. Also replaced ( slow ) spinning rust by SSD in laptops > 100 times. Makes old machines feel snappy again. In general, for any SSD > 128GB I tend to use btrfs, these days not even a separate /home on xfs or ext4. And you won't believe the number of times where that saved a user from the result of their own experiments.
Thanks.
A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way?
Never done this. Any docs on Crucial's site?
Not that I've found.
TIA, Dave
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Dave Howorth composed on 2019-12-05 17:30 (UTC):
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Resembles what I did with my BX500. Fresh installation of 4 operating systems, edited fstab to include the RAID, then ran it for about 6 months before putting it into clone backup rotation. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:53:23 -0500 Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
Dave Howorth composed on 2019-12-05 17:30 (UTC):
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Resembles what I did with my BX500. Fresh installation of 4 operating systems, edited fstab to include the RAID, then ran it for about 6 months before putting it into clone backup rotation.
Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 05/12/2019 à 18:30, Dave Howorth a écrit :
one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB,
if you use a caddy, be warned than you may not be able to boot from it, and the speed is lower. for example my ASUS laptop can't boot from a hard disk in a dvd caddy (it boots from dvd) but the ssd is definitively a must :-) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 20:22:51 +0100 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 05/12/2019 à 18:30, Dave Howorth a écrit :
one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB,
if you use a caddy, be warned than you may not be able to boot from it, and the speed is lower.
for example my ASUS laptop can't boot from a hard disk in a dvd caddy (it boots from dvd)
I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean by a caddy? The SSD will be mounted in the DVD's bay (via a 3.5" to 2.5" conversion mount) and connected using the SATA connection previously used by the DVD. The DVD will be mounted in a SATA-to-USB external case and plugged in via a front panel USB3 socket when required. Do you think that will cause me grief?
but the ssd is definitively a must :-)
jdd
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Le 5 décembre 2019 21:15:42 GMT+01:00, Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> a écrit :
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 20:22:51 +0100 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 05/12/2019 à 18:30, Dave Howorth a écrit :
one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB,
if you use a caddy, be warned than you may not be able to boot from it, and the speed is lower.
for example my ASUS laptop can't boot from a hard disk in a dvd caddy
(it boots from dvd)
I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean by a caddy?
The SSD will be mounted in the DVD's bay (via a 3.5" to 2.5" conversion
you can't, DVD interface is not the same as HDD... on laptop... may be yours is a desktop? jdd
jdd
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On Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:11:59 +0100 jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 5 décembre 2019 21:15:42 GMT+01:00, Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> a écrit :
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 20:22:51 +0100 "jdd@dodin.org" <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 05/12/2019 à 18:30, Dave Howorth a écrit :
one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB,
if you use a caddy, be warned than you may not be able to boot from it, and the speed is lower.
for example my ASUS laptop can't boot from a hard disk in a dvd caddy
(it boots from dvd)
I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean by a caddy?
The SSD will be mounted in the DVD's bay (via a 3.5" to 2.5" conversion
you can't, DVD interface is not the same as HDD... on laptop... may be yours is a desktop?
Yes, it's a desktop, exactly like you quoted me saying above :) AFAIK, it's just another SATA port.
jdd
jdd
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Le 06/12/2019 à 12:37, Dave Howorth a écrit :
On Thu, 05 Dec 2019 22:11:59 +0100 jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
you can't, DVD interface is not the same as HDD... on laptop... may be yours is a desktop?
Yes, it's a desktop, exactly like you quoted me saying above :) AFAIK, it's just another SATA port.
ok, no problem, then Desktop used to be everywhere some years ago, but now there as much less, so mu error sorry :-) jdd (and android phone are the hell to answer a mail) -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/05/2019 11:30 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way?
Throw it in and drive it like you stole it. Your drive life 3-5 years is based on a rewrite of 2/3 of the entire drive capacity every 24 hours. Normal use, you will never come close to it (by a factor of years). Enjoy the 10sec boot. (you will wonder how you ever lived with rust) Even old hardware wakes right up and behaves like it is turbocharged from a I/O standpoint. I've got an old 2nd gen i7 that boots 15.0 from powered off to full KDE3 desktop in just under 12 seconds. (you have to adjust sysconfig/network/config WAIT_FOR_INTERFACES="1" for the full benefit, otherwise your boot will be twiddling its fingers for 29.85 seconds with the default 30 -- or 19.85 secs with a 20 default, I forget which it is) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:27:37 -0600 "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 12/05/2019 11:30 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500). I plan to install one on my desktop, replacing the DVD player which I'll move to USB, and use one with an RPi I have.
With the one on my desktop I plan to install 15.1, probably as a fresh install, and then make some links to connect it to my existing data on the rotating rust. That way I'll still hopefully be able to boot the existing 15.0 off the rust if necessary.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
I'm currently stuck at the first step (well actually the second, I've managed to put one of the SSD into a USB enclosure and connect to it) - namely how should I format it? My 15.0 system has BtrFS with lots of subvolumes, which is another reason to do a new install. Are there any reasons to prefer particular filesystems on SSDs, like with SD cards, or do I just treat it the same as HDD? What do people use?
A final question. Crucial have a Windows-only program for updating the firmware on the drive. Anybody know the Linux way?
Throw it in and drive it like you stole it. Your drive life 3-5 years is based on a rewrite of 2/3 of the entire drive capacity every 24 hours. Normal use, you will never come close to it (by a factor of years).
Enjoy the 10sec boot. (you will wonder how you ever lived with rust) Even old hardware wakes right up and behaves like it is turbocharged from a I/O standpoint. I've got an old 2nd gen i7 that boots 15.0 from powered off to full KDE3 desktop in just under 12 seconds.
(you have to adjust sysconfig/network/config WAIT_FOR_INTERFACES="1" for the full benefit, otherwise your boot will be twiddling its fingers for 29.85 seconds with the default 30 -- or 19.85 secs with a 20 default, I forget which it is)
Thanks. Boot performance is one thing that doesn't matter to me. This machine stays on 24 hrs a day, since it runs a TV recording program. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2019 12.39, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:27:37 -0600 "David C. Rankin" <drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
Thanks. Boot performance is one thing that doesn't matter to me. This machine stays on 24 hrs a day, since it runs a TV recording program.
I have the TV recorder on a separate machine, much smaller, a mini PC (MSI Cubi N). Silent, small, little power drain. I call that "my server". -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:21:21 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 06/12/2019 12.39, Dave Howorth wrote:
Thanks. Boot performance is one thing that doesn't matter to me. This machine stays on 24 hrs a day, since it runs a TV recording program.
I have the TV recorder on a separate machine, much smaller, a mini PC (MSI Cubi N). Silent, small, little power drain. I call that "my server".
TBH it would probably stay on anyway, since I don't like losing my open applications, and hibernate/suspend doesn't work for some reason (very old thread somewhere) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/12/2019 14.57, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 13:21:21 +0100 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 06/12/2019 12.39, Dave Howorth wrote:
Thanks. Boot performance is one thing that doesn't matter to me. This machine stays on 24 hrs a day, since it runs a TV recording program.
I have the TV recorder on a separate machine, much smaller, a mini PC (MSI Cubi N). Silent, small, little power drain. I call that "my server".
TBH it would probably stay on anyway, since I don't like losing my open applications, and hibernate/suspend doesn't work for some reason (very old thread somewhere)
Oh, that's unfortunate. Hibernating is important to me. Less electricity used (my entire house uses less than 2.3KW) and longer computer life, yet I get all the applications in the same state in the morning. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXepfkgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1cRGAJ9M9PPqU2/p2pQ0regoUKDggaSsfACgjNVQWdC26R8eFr42SKN+SuN4A2k= =FL6B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/06/2019 05:39 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:
Thanks. Boot performance is one thing that doesn't matter to me. This machine stays on 24 hrs a day, since it runs a TV recording program.
If you build any big projects, the speedup in build time is incredible. 1/8-1/4 the build time. Loading/saving large files (video, etc..) feels instantaneous. Anything I/O related is blistering. The SSD performance improvement was a pleasant surprise all the way around. Enjoy. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/12/2019 12:30, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500).
Nice. I have a (this week only) option for a 1TB 660p Series PCI-E x4 NVMe M.2 SSD (Does my Dell Optiplex 755 have a slot for that?) (this is the full height tower not the SFF model) for < C$150 How do the NVMe format compare with the 3.5" HDD format? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/12/2019 à 14:48, Anton Aylward a écrit :
On 05/12/2019 12:30, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500).
Nice. I have a (this week only) option for a 1TB 660p Series PCI-E x4 NVMe M.2 SSD (Does my Dell Optiplex 755 have a slot for that?) (this is the full height tower not the SFF model) for < C$150
do search is you can get an interface for your computer. Not a size problem, nvme is very small.
How do the NVMe format compare with the 3.5" HDD format?
speed x 10? much faster than sata ssd, if all the other components follows (not likely, I also have a similar computer jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/12/2019 14.48, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/12/2019 12:30, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500).
Nice. I have a (this week only) option for a 1TB 660p Series PCI-E x4 NVMe M.2 SSD (Does my Dell Optiplex 755 have a slot for that?) (this is the full height tower not the SFF model) for < C$150
How do the NVMe format compare with the 3.5" HDD format?
32 times faster than an SSD. It is like direct addressing memory, but with "a disk". - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXe+wOAAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1bQfAJ9DZMaLC5bV1C0o0FYnJCCeEPoCgACeKLRjwAC4CfCxUSxjXBUeuuhBKEs= =d8ae -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/12/2019 08:48, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/12/2019 12:30, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500).
Nice. I have a (this week only) option for a 1TB 660p Series PCI-E x4 NVMe M.2 SSD (Does my Dell Optiplex 755 have a slot for that?)
I'm not sure. The spec sheet says that there are 4 slots for cards https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/opti_755_techspecs.p... 15 16 17 18 two regular PC slots, one PCI Express x1 one PCI Express x16 I look at the Wikipedia M.2 page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2 and see the illustration of the mSATA SSD and M.2 cards. The mSTAT looks like it would fit in the PCI Express x16 slot The m.2 card .... no. This looks more like what is in the 755 mobo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_(standard) Surely there are adaptors? https://www.newegg.ca/p/35Y-005D-00005 C$20 https://www.amazon.ca/adapter-interface-Suppor-Express-2230-2280/dp/B07432BR... but what s the cost in speed? At what point do I give up on the 755 and go for either a mobo replacement or a whole new machine rather than just 'upgrading' it? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/12/2019 à 16:35, Anton Aylward a écrit :
Surely there are adaptors? https://www.newegg.ca/p/35Y-005D-00005 C$20 https://www.amazon.ca/adapter-interface-Suppor-Express-2230-2280/dp/B07432BR... but what s the cost in speed?
probably quite much. Most pci x16 slots are used for video card, but you have a vga adapter, if you use only this one all is ok anyway if you don't have any ssd in it the result will be very good, and the nvme "disk" will be reusable next year I plan to go full nvme for new disks, now the price dropped much
At what point do I give up on the 755 and go for either a mobo replacement or a whole new machine rather than just 'upgrading' it?
depends what you do with it 755 are pretty sturdy computers such adapters are $4 in china is this have any importance (and you can wait) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
At what point do I give up on the 755 and go for either a mobo replacement or a whole new machine rather than just 'upgrading' it? I think 'upgrading' make no sense . You will need at least a new motherboard, a new CPU and new RAM. Probably a standard ATX formfactor motherboard doesn't fit into the DELL case. And the
Am Dienstag, 10. Dezember 2019, 16:35:19 CET schrieb Anton Aylward: power supply has aged , too and might not meet the requirement of a modern CPU any more. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward composed on 2019-12-10 10:35 (UTC-0500):
On 10/12/2019 08:48, Anton Aylward wrote:
I have a (this week only) option for a 1TB 660p Series PCI-E x4 NVMe M.2 SSD (Does my Dell Optiplex 755 have a slot for that?)
No. You need newer technology motherboard than your 755 to use M.2 directly, >2013 or 2014 I think.
I'm not sure. The spec sheet says that there are 4 slots for cards https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/opti_755_techspecs.p... 15 16 17 18 two regular PC slots, one PCI Express x1 one PCI Express x16
I look at the Wikipedia M.2 page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2 and see the illustration of the mSATA SSD and M.2 cards. The mSTAT looks like it would fit in the PCI Express x16 slot The m.2 card .... no.
This looks more like what is in the 755 mobo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_(standard)
Surely there are adaptors? https://www.newegg.ca/p/35Y-005D-00005 C$20 https://www.amazon.ca/adapter-interface-Suppor-Express-2230-2280/dp/B07432BR... but what s the cost in speed? Either would enable use of the 660P in your X16 slot, if the slot isn't tied up by an indispensable graphics or other PCIe card that can't be moved to the X1 slot.
You won't be able to boot from it. That requires BIOS support your 755 can't get.
At what point do I give up on the 755 and go for either a mobo replacement or a whole new machine rather than just 'upgrading' it?
Depends how much you need more speed, and doing what? Your ATA controller is maximum 3Gb/s, or about half the max speed typical of SATA SSD. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/12/2019 à 23:04, Felix Miata a écrit :
You won't be able to boot from it. That requires BIOS support your 755 can't get.
given the number of sata connectors on the board, you can boot from any disk and have the rest of the system on nvme. The main interest of nvme here is to have a disk ready for next upgrade. Even sata SSD are obsolete now jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 10. Dezember 2019, 14:48:49 CET schrieb Anton Aylward:
On 05/12/2019 12:30, Dave Howorth wrote:
I've just bought my first SSD disks (Crucial MX500).
Nice. I have a (this week only) option for a 1TB 660p Series PCI-E x4 NVMe M.2 SSD (Does my Dell Optiplex 755 have a slot for that?) (this is the full height tower not the SFF model) for < C$150
Well, I doubt that your Optiplex 755 has a M.2 Slot. It is to old. There are PCIe adapter cards to M.2 like https://www.amazon.de/DELOCK-PCIe-x4-M-2-NGFF/dp/B00IM8L6XW, but there is another problem: You won't be able to boot directly from the NVME disk because the old bios/UEFI lacks the ability to do so. And in most use cases SATA SSDs are fast enough that you won't notice a speed difference to an PCIe/NVME disk unless you are running a benchmark. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/12/2019 12:20, Markus Koßmann wrote:
Well, I doubt that your Optiplex 755 has a M.2 Slot. It is to old.
Correct. There is, as I posted, a PCIe x16
There are PCIe adapter cards to M.2 like https://www.amazon.de/DELOCK-PCIe-x4-M-2-NGFF/dp/B00IM8L6XW, but there is another problem: You won't be able to boot directly from the NVME disk because the old bios/UEFI lacks the ability to do so.
Oh buqqer!
And in most use cases SATA SSDs are fast enough that you won't notice a speed difference to an PCIe/NVME disk unless you are running a benchmark.
Whereas a SATA interface (aka rotating rust replacement) SSD will boot. Sadly, the order is already placed. (I suppose I could have saved a few $ shopping for a 1T SSD instead. *sigh*) I suppose if I have a /boot partition on my RR I can boot from that? Maybe I'll install 15.2 directly on this M.2 I'll think of this as "an investment for the future". Maybe I can get a deal on an upgrade Mobo ... -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (14)
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Andrei Borzenkov -
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
James Knott -
jdd -
jdd＠dodin.org
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Knurpht-openSUSE -
Lew Wolfgang -
Markus Koßmann -
Patrick Shanahan -
Per Jessen