[opensuse] KDE3 in openSUSE
In order to help to solve the KDE3 issue in a constructive way: As a member of the openSUSE KDE team I would like to appoint Basil Chupin as the leader of the effort to create an openSUSE team dedicated to KDE3. I suggest starting by asking mailing lists administrators for an opensuse-kde3 mailing list where all people interested in KDE3 in openSUSE can gather and discuss creation of the team and its further actions. We, the generic openSUSE KDE team, will try to help as possible if needed (although, obviously, we have also other work to do). This task should not require any special skills and you apparently have time to dedicate to KDE3 in openSUSE. Therefore, if you refuse, you are apparently not interested in anything else than chatting about KDE3 and in that case I suggest you move that to some other more suitable place, as that is not the purpose of this mailing list. Also, if you refuse, I would like you to state that explicitly, so that I can appoint another person, until either somebody finally starts actually doing something useful or you all realize that you are not helping openSUSE this way at all. So, do you accept? -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 972 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Lubos Lunak wrote:
In order to help to solve the KDE3 issue in a constructive way:
As a member of the openSUSE KDE team I would like to appoint Basil Chupin as the leader of the effort to create an openSUSE team dedicated to KDE3. I suggest starting by asking mailing lists administrators for an opensuse-kde3 mailing list where all people interested in KDE3 in openSUSE can gather and discuss creation of the team and its further actions. We, the generic openSUSE KDE team, will try to help as possible if needed (although, obviously, we have also other work to do).
This task should not require any special skills and you apparently have time to dedicate to KDE3 in openSUSE. Therefore, if you refuse, you are apparently not interested in anything else than chatting about KDE3 and in that case I suggest you move that to some other more suitable place, as that is not the purpose of this mailing list.
Also, if you refuse, I would like you to state that explicitly, so that I can appoint another person, until either somebody finally starts actually doing something useful or you all realize that you are not helping openSUSE this way at all.
So, do you accept?
What an honour! What an honour to have been put forward for this position out of the many, many candidates who have spoken out for KDE3. I feel so humbled - and feel so much for all the others who have been overlooked :-( . However, I have to decline the highly prestigious appointment because I feel that there are may other much better qualified people than I who would do a better job - and who would not even question why "as a member of the openSUSE KDE team" you have even the time to respond to matters concerning KDE3 in openSUSE. You responding to KDE3 matters in openSUSE as you have (above) only shows that there is no need for the creation of any new, kde3-dedicated mail-lists since "openSUSE KDE team" members, like yourself, are already participating in this forum. 5 Gold Stars go you for doing this! As I have, with much humility, of course, declined the position, we all now await your new nomination, which you have "explicitly" stated you would do in your penultimate paragraph. Perhaps yourself even, or Sven Burmeister? Thank you for thinking of me in the first place, and I am sorry that I have to disappoint you. Really sorry. BC -- "There are none so blind as those who will not see." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 04 of September 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:
Lubos Lunak wrote:
In order to help to solve the KDE3 issue in a constructive way:
As a member of the openSUSE KDE team I would like to appoint Basil Chupin as the leader of the effort to create an openSUSE team dedicated to KDE3. I suggest starting by asking mailing lists administrators for an opensuse-kde3 mailing list where all people interested in KDE3 in openSUSE can gather and discuss creation of the team and its further actions. We, the generic openSUSE KDE team, will try to help as possible if needed (although, obviously, we have also other work to do).
This task should not require any special skills and you apparently have time to dedicate to KDE3 in openSUSE. Therefore, if you refuse, you are apparently not interested in anything else than chatting about KDE3 and in that case I suggest you move that to some other more suitable place, as that is not the purpose of this mailing list.
Also, if you refuse, I would like you to state that explicitly, so that I can appoint another person, until either somebody finally starts actually doing something useful or you all realize that you are not helping openSUSE this way at all.
So, do you accept?
What an honour! What an honour to have been put forward for this position out of the many, many candidates who have spoken out for KDE3. I feel so humbled - and feel so much for all the others who have been overlooked :-( .
Well, they could have stepped forward themselves. And still can. But, until then, as long there is nobody like that, I simply picked somebody who seemed to have the time and motivation (since that should be actually all that's needed).
However, I have to decline the highly prestigious appointment because I feel that there are may other much better qualified people than I who would do a better job
As I said above, no special skills should be required. However, since you do not find yourself qualified for the issue of KDE3 in openSUSE, then I kindly ask you to be consistent with that and not question it. Either you are qualified for it or not.
You responding to KDE3 matters in openSUSE as you have (above) only shows that there is no need for the creation of any new, kde3-dedicated mail-lists since "openSUSE KDE team" members, like yourself, are already participating in this forum. 5 Gold Stars go you for doing this!
I think you misunderstood. We do not have the resources to do any KDE3 work besides the minimum required by the few still shipped KDE3 apps in 11.2 and maintenance of older openSUSE releases. Nor it seems anybody else in interested in doing that work. As long as that is the case, talking about KDE3 in openSUSE is just empty talk and as such it just wastes time on this list.
As I have, with much humility, of course, declined the position, we all now await your new nomination, which you have "explicitly" stated you would do in your penultimate paragraph. Perhaps yourself even, or Sven Burmeister?
No. The priority now is KDE4 and I think it is a better decision to spend my time on it. The same seems to be the case for Sven. This should be for somebody who sees it differently.
Thank you for thinking of me in the first place, and I am sorry that I have to disappoint you. Really sorry.
No problem. As long as you stay consistent with your thinking that there are more qualified people and do not question their decisions. As for somebody else, I will try some next person who seems to have the time and motivation to do something about KDE3 in openSUSE. For example, a person who can organize a vote should be able to organize also other things. So, Bob S, please see the original mail (and just put your name there). Do you accept? -- Lubos Lunak KDE developer -------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 084 672 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 04 September 2009 05:42:26 Lubos Lunak wrote:
On Friday 04 of September 2009, Basil Chupin wrote:
Lubos Lunak wrote:
In order to help to solve the KDE3 issue in a constructive way:
As a member of the openSUSE KDE team I would like to appoint Basil Chupin as the leader of the effort to create an openSUSE team dedicated to KDE3.
So, do you accept?
What an honour! What an honour to have been put forward for this position out of the many, many candidates who have spoken out for KDE3. I feel so humbled - and feel so much for all the others who have been overlooked :-( .
Well, they could have stepped forward themselves. And still can. But, until then, as long there is nobody like that, I simply picked somebody who seemed to have the time and motivation (since that should be actually all that's needed).
There's at least one person with some motivation: <http://lists.kde.org/?t=125206735600002&r=1&w=2> Perhaps those of you that want to see KDE 3 maintained (and improved!) might collaborate to keep it in openSUSE. I know Debian has decided not to support simultaneous KDE 4 and KDE 3 installations and (K/X)Ubuntu will probably end up going the same way. It seems like openSUSE might be the BEST place to focus your efforts. I don't have the time to spend developing KDE so I've gotten fairly comfortable with KDE 4.2. The development (both upstream and downstream) is quite lively. They don't always work on what I need, but they give me stuff for free so I'm not complaining. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
There's at least one person with some motivation: <http://lists.kde.org/?t=125206735600002&r=1&w=2>
the maintainer of that project has a very stable, usable KDE 3.5.10-based branch for Kubuntu. It includes bugfixes and new features as well. If someone wants to help him with a suse build or a KDE 3.6 release, please contact him here: http://www.pearsoncomputing.net/index.php?page=contact.php -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 04 September 2009 06:42:26 Lubos Lunak wrote: <biggest dumbest thing I have ever had to snip>
As for somebody else, I will try some next person who seems to have the time and motivation to do something about KDE3 in openSUSE. For example, a person who can organize a vote should be able to organize also other things.
So, Bob S, please see the original mail (and just put your name there). Do you accept?
You know Lubos, I used to have a great of respect for you. You made sense and responded respectfully to questions. I am not so sure anymore. Now who is the childish one? Don't get as arrogant as Sven please. Step back and let a cooler mind prevail. Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Bob S <911@sanctum.com> [09-04-09 23:20]:
On Friday 04 September 2009 06:42:26 Lubos Lunak wrote:
You know Lubos, I used to have a great of respect for you. You made sense and responded respectfully to questions. I am not so sure anymore. Now who is the childish one? Don't get as arrogant as Sven please. Step back and let a cooler mind prevail.
Fact 1: kde3 will not be further developed/supported by the present developers Fact 2: kde4 *is* different and required different steps. And is being developed These facts are *concrete*. In this light, what do you suggest, Bob. ps. you need to be specific. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 04 September 2009 23:27:03 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Bob S <911@sanctum.com> [09-04-09 23:20]:
On Friday 04 September 2009 06:42:26 Lubos Lunak wrote:
You know Lubos, I used to have a great of respect for you. You made sense and responded respectfully to questions. I am not so sure anymore. Now who is the childish one? Don't get as arrogant as Sven please. Step back and let a cooler mind prevail.
Fact 1: kde3 will not be further developed/supported by the present developers
Fact 2: kde4 *is* different and required different steps. And is being developed
These facts are *concrete*.
In this light, what do you suggest, Bob.
ps. you need to be specific. -- Oh Patrick,
Give us a break here. Nobody questions those facts. I do not advocate another branch of KDE3. I accept that KDE4 will prevail. I would just expect that our questions will be answered without arrogance of calling us "whiners" and "looking down their nose" at us, the unwashed and the ignorant. And how is what I said to Lubos have anything to do with your response to that mail? If you need to answer this wait two weekws because I am off for vacation. Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Fact 1: kde3 will not be further developed/supported by the present developers
Fact 2: kde4 *is* different and required different steps. And is being developed
Fact 3: The current KDE devs do not use KDE 3 and do not remember all the "little details" that make it so great. It is up to us, the KDE community, to file feature requests for those "little things" and other issues that prevent KDE 4 adoption. Please, if you have a problem with KDE 4 then let me know what that problem is. I will file bugs and feature requests and help get it sorted out. You can email me privately, or on list. If you write on-list with KDE 4 issues, please CC me as I do not read all list messages. If I am CCed I will read it. Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 23:20:05 -0400, Bob S wrote:
You know Lubos, I used to have a great of respect for you. You made sense and responded respectfully to questions. I am not so sure anymore. Now who is the childish one? Don't get as arrogant as Sven please. Step back and let a cooler mind prevail.
Bob, this doesn't really help the situation here.....Let's make this not be about the personalities or people, but about the product and process. Lubos could certainly have phrased a few things better in his opening e- mail, such as the bits that come down to "step up or shut up". There are plenty of valid reasons to not accept such a position, but that (a) doesn't mean it's not valid to provide feedback, or (b) that such an idea shouldn't move forward. Nor does Lubos' poor phrasing mean we need to start another flamewar. Please. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jim Henderson wrote:
Nor does Lubos' poor phrasing mean we need to start another flamewar. Please.
Jim, I know you've been on a long time and have heard all this before, and I suppose that since I don't remember Bob S's name from very long ago, we should maybe cut him a _little_ slack, but I have to say all my sympathy is with Lubos, Sven, Will Stephenson, etc., etc., who have spoken out repeatedly on this list, saying that kde had become unmanageable and needed to be rewritten from scratch using modern software technology and management methods. They've been repeatedly blown off by a number of people who can't accept that their old favorites aren't at their fingers _right_now_, so the developers are <pick your favorite set of expletives>. Almost all the complaints have been addressed, but new complaints replace them. The complainers are never willing to accept either that their complaints have been addressed or are being addressed, and they are rarely willing to be civil -- some have even openly refused to help Dotan Cohen and Larry Stotler collect and convey their concerns in a reasonable manner to the kde developers, insisting on their prerogative to fill the list with bile and vituperation. So, while we're cutting Bob S a little slack for maybe not having heard all this before and blown it off, I think we need to cut the developers a little slack, too, for having had to put with this crap for so long and so many times. John Perry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 01:02:21 -0400, John E. Perry wrote:
Almost all the complaints have been addressed, but new complaints replace them.
Unfortunately, that's the nature of software development: 100% of the users are not going to be happy 100% of the time; this means that there's always going to be someone complaining about something. Nature of the biz. And users do have a tendency to see what's not being done; it's the nature of IT work (which I did for a number of years) that when things are working, nobody knows you're there; when things are broken, though, they know who you are, where to reach you, how to reach you, and so on. I've been called just about every name in the book by unappreciative users, threatened with "being reported to my VP" and other such nonsense. And I agree it's frustrating - and I didn't always deal with it with grace. I'm only human, and so are the developers here. But we also have to remember that the users are also only human, and while some may resort to poorly-considered tactics to get their way, if the devs respond "in kind", that's not going to get the issue dealt with. Namecalling didn't work on the playground when we were in elementary school. It certainly doesn't work in real life - because it almost never causes someone to reflect and say "gee, I was being an ass, I'm sorry".
So, while we're cutting Bob S a little slack for maybe not having heard all this before and blown it off, I think we need to cut the developers a little slack, too, for having had to put with this crap for so long and so many times.
Sure; in the final analysis, what I'd like to see is that the focus move off of the individuals and back on the software, where it belongs. We have a common goal (or should have a common goal), which is to make the best Linux distribution out there. If we can start with that common premise and understand that we're all trying to achieve that same goal, that gives us a point in common to start a discussion from. Then we focus instead on moving forward instead of anybody making it a personal issue. I can give everyone some slack here myself (not that that'll matter a whole lot - the 'slack' needs to be given by the people who are engaging in the ongoing flaming); I just would like to see us get back to discussion about the issues and how to best have them reported and evaluated - and possibly even addressed. This really isn't about giving anyone slack, it's about getting people talking about the issues rather than just beating on each other. That just wastes energy and accomplishes nothing. Well, except perhaps showing outsiders that maybe they ought to look for another community to participate in. And that's also something that we should all want to prevent. That doesn't mean we can't have vigorous discussion and disagreements about things. 100% agreement doesn't advance things either; I'm just saying let's keep it about the *software* and not the people. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 04 September 2009 04:20:58 am Basil Chupin wrote:
As a member of the openSUSE KDE team I would like to appoint Basil Chupin as the leader of the effort to create an openSUSE team dedicated to KDE3.
Go Basil, For a head-start, just copy the chakra KDE3 project for ArchLinux. It's a simple modular KDE3 install that works fine in parallel with kde4. Just remember is /opt/kde instead of /opt/kde3 and don't forget to link /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62 -> libjpeg.so.7.0.0 Until the jpeg library is updated ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lubos Lunak wrote:
In order to help to solve the KDE3 issue in a constructive way:
As a member of the openSUSE KDE team I would like to appoint Basil Chupin as the leader of the effort to create an openSUSE team dedicated to KDE3. I suggest starting by asking mailing lists administrators for an opensuse-kde3 mailing list where all people interested in KDE3 in openSUSE can gather and discuss creation of the team and its further actions. We, the generic openSUSE KDE team, will try to help as possible if needed (although, obviously, we have also other work to do).
This task should not require any special skills and you apparently have time to dedicate to KDE3 in openSUSE. Therefore, if you refuse, you are apparently not interested in anything else than chatting about KDE3 and in that case I suggest you move that to some other more suitable place, as that is not the purpose of this mailing list.
Also, if you refuse, I would like you to state that explicitly, so that I can appoint another person, until either somebody finally starts actually doing something useful or you all realize that you are not helping openSUSE this way at all.
So, do you accept?
All this and the poisoned chalice :-) Oh wow! an offer that no-one can refuse, heads you shoot yourself, tails I shoot you... Basil is in up to his armpits whatever he responds... very friendly.... *not*! - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqg3bQACgkQasN0sSnLmgKq7QCgyPn7Q4A+TyxDSCeWcyyBeLqE ooQAoKTCxBk1G0WRte+5/V305C2in2dY =HK9s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Basil Chupin -
Bob S -
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. -
David C. Rankin -
Dotan Cohen -
G T Smith -
Jim Henderson -
John E. Perry -
Lubos Lunak -
Patrick Shanahan